I don't remember the Eagles winning 3 Super Bowls.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Is Peyton Manning the best quarterback of all time? No.
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
- Status
I don't remember the Eagles winning 3 Super Bowls.
old
Member
I'm inclined to say Peyton is the greatest but he had two major cons against him.
1. He's so good he's almost always playing from ahead and thus seems out of his element when playing from behind. Yes, he has some amazing comebacks to his record. When anybody plays as long as he has there's bound to be some examples. But importantly, he has way more chokes. I want Peyton the first 3 quarters but there's a number of quarterbacks I'd rather take if I'm down in the 4th.
2. He's so good he can make a 2-14 team go 10-6. Which sounds great but it means bad teammates, bad coaching, and bad preparation habits get hidden behind the veil of winning. Great players like Peyton can have a degenerative effect on their team. Peyton's greatness carried Indy for so long that it hid many personel, preparation, and coaching deficiencies. All of which got exposed when he was sidelined for a year. It's human nature. When you know your hall of fame teammate is going to win you the game no matter what you may not prepare as hard. To counter Peyton's degenerative effect you need one of those constantly angry coaches in the vein of Bill Belichick or Urban Meyer, who are twice as angry after a victory as after a loss. Urban Meyer famously had a huge screaming dressing down of the OSU defense after a VICTRORY over Indiana. Belichick lost Brady for a year and still won 9 games with a backup because he's just as mad after winning as he is after losing. Some coaches cheer and celebrate after winning, Belichick mopes and talks about all of the things his team did wrong. Those coaches don't let winning get in the way of improving, fixing problems, and making sure everybody carries their weight. Peyton requires a coach like that to keep his team from getting lazy from all of the winning.
But there's one thing that makes Peyton the greatest. Impact. He changed the position. His impact can be seen in the defensive schemes across the league...and even the rule book. He turned the quarterback from a jock position into a nerd position. Just being 6-4 with a rocket arm doesn't cut it anymore. QBs today need to be able to read coverages pre-snap, make pre-snap adjustments, respond to post-snap safety movements with correct route tree throws. He forever raised the standard of what's expected of an NFL QB.
1. He's so good he's almost always playing from ahead and thus seems out of his element when playing from behind. Yes, he has some amazing comebacks to his record. When anybody plays as long as he has there's bound to be some examples. But importantly, he has way more chokes. I want Peyton the first 3 quarters but there's a number of quarterbacks I'd rather take if I'm down in the 4th.
2. He's so good he can make a 2-14 team go 10-6. Which sounds great but it means bad teammates, bad coaching, and bad preparation habits get hidden behind the veil of winning. Great players like Peyton can have a degenerative effect on their team. Peyton's greatness carried Indy for so long that it hid many personel, preparation, and coaching deficiencies. All of which got exposed when he was sidelined for a year. It's human nature. When you know your hall of fame teammate is going to win you the game no matter what you may not prepare as hard. To counter Peyton's degenerative effect you need one of those constantly angry coaches in the vein of Bill Belichick or Urban Meyer, who are twice as angry after a victory as after a loss. Urban Meyer famously had a huge screaming dressing down of the OSU defense after a VICTRORY over Indiana. Belichick lost Brady for a year and still won 9 games with a backup because he's just as mad after winning as he is after losing. Some coaches cheer and celebrate after winning, Belichick mopes and talks about all of the things his team did wrong. Those coaches don't let winning get in the way of improving, fixing problems, and making sure everybody carries their weight. Peyton requires a coach like that to keep his team from getting lazy from all of the winning.
But there's one thing that makes Peyton the greatest. Impact. He changed the position. His impact can be seen in the defensive schemes across the league...and even the rule book. He turned the quarterback from a jock position into a nerd position. Just being 6-4 with a rocket arm doesn't cut it anymore. QBs today need to be able to read coverages pre-snap, make pre-snap adjustments, respond to post-snap safety movements with correct route tree throws. He forever raised the standard of what's expected of an NFL QB.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
The Eagles have never won the Super Bowl.
ThatGuyAgain
Member
Have they said when he first injured it?
njean777
Member
They will one day! I hope it is during my life time
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
Is this a shot at me? Like I was trying to teach you something? I was piling on the Eagles fan, genius.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Probably against Chargers or Rams.
Chargers game
Do you remember what happened to the Colts the year Manning was injured?
....I'm pretty sure Red Auerbach and Bill Russell might have words with that. As would Montana/Walsh. As would Jordan/Jackson.
Sad thing is, I think there are two QBs who might pass Manning currently playing - Rodgers and Luck. Though Luck looks like he's going to get stuck with the "great QB, terrible team" issue that Manning had. Stats are hard, because you really do have to drop a line with the rule changes in the last 8 years or so. Everything pre 2004/2005 is just different.
I mean, in 10-15 years, I'm thinking we're looking at something like:
Top Tier: Rodgers, Favre (not being injured basically at all is damn impressive, especially in the pre namby pamby lets protect our QBs forever and ever era ruleset), Montana, Marino, Elway, Brady, P. Manning.
Which, in retrospect, shows you how insanely lucky both GB and Indy have been.
As a Dolphins fan; the AFC East dominance is not a big deal, because, um, the AFC East has sucked (non Rex Ryan owning Brady's soul somehow) since 2000.
Liquidsnake
Banned
One thing I do know its that Philip Rivers is the worst.
Get it?
Get it?
njean777
Member
Now I am an Eagles fan but let's be real here, Brady still had to play his ass off to win those rings. You can know your opponent all you want, that won't mean that they won't change anything up for the SB nor will it mean you automatically know every play coming.
Also I don't think people really understand what was considered cheating when they got caught. ALos if it was major why was the punishment so weak?
Anyone that cites the cheating and to say it nullified their superbowl wins doesn't understand the sport.
Because if the NFL admitted how bad the scandal was it would delegitimize the integrity of the championship game and (theoretically) of the league itself?
Proof?
Do you remember what happened to the Colts the year Manning was injured?
Except for the cheating thing, that's the #1 Brady vs Manning stat. Patriots 11-5 without Brady, Colts 2-14 without Manning.
Without Manning, the Saints beat the Colts 62-7 in 2011. That's how bad that team was.
Conjecture, with a dash of wishful thinking.
It was overblown then, and the fact that the franchise is still the best in the sport should put BS like this to rest.
Can't argue with any of that. The team was a joke without Manning, actually much like the Colts of today would be without Luck.
I would say the Stat that is more telling is the 9 one and done of Manning vs Brady 9 afc championship appearences.
Brady is a great player.
The Patriots cheated their asses off on their way to a dynasty.
The Patriots won three Super Bowls according to the NFL. I will not deny that. I feel those Championships are the same as Bonds's home run record. They would have been great players/teams no matter what. It's a shame that the HR record as well as those championships are tainted by cheating.
I wouldn't bring up the cheating thing if I was you.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16720519
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5855075
Zen_Arcade
Banned
It's laughable that this question could still be asked after the Ray Rice 2 game suspension.
The answer is that it's much better for the NFL as a company to sweep this kind of stuff under the rug and hope it passes then it is to admit someone who won three Super Bowls was cheating. If they don't cover it up, it cheapens their product.
crimzonflame
Member
JABEE with the truth
Pre-2012 Broncos do not matter to me. Nothing linked here has any bearing on Manning.
Yes, let's completely disregard the fact that the Colts had Jim Caldwell as their head coach and also Curtis fucking Painter starting most of their games.
I hate when people put that situation so black and white.
Lol, so you're a Manning Bandwagon fan. That explains a lot.
What's wrong with Jim Caldwell? He's a great coach.
Have you never posted in NFL-GAF?
Is it opposite day again?
I don't keep track of Bandwagon fans, sorry.
Also not a bandwagon fan. I've been a Manning fan since I started watching the NFL. I don't come and go, I always cheer on Manning.
I was not an intentional fan of the Caldwell hiring but he took the Lions to the playoffs in his first season and has brought on a cool, calm demeanor the team needed.
Tabris, who do you root for when Manning retires? Matthew Stafford stock will continue to rise.
Except the previous year...Jim Caldwell was the coach, and Manning took Jim Caldwell and that exact same team to the playoffs the year before, and the Super Bowl the year before that. The only major personnel difference was a league average backup (Painter; see Lindley, Ryan for further stats on average backup QBs) QB instead of Peyton Freaking Manning.
The reason that situation is used so much is that if you compare the rosters, the starters look almost exactly the same.
That's the beauty; it was all destroyed without anyone looking at it.
I'm fairly certain, especially considering the way the NFL has handled every other scandal (Hi Bountygate! Hi Ray Rice! Hi Adrian Peterson! etc) - that it was insanely damning and the NFL didn't want to deal with it. Unlike CFB; you can't just wipe away titles and pretend they didn't exist or happen. I don't know if BB cheated that much more than anyone else, or he just got caught. Hell, there's a pretty good chance NE will win this Super Bowl (thank you Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, and potentially GB for all getting injured right before the playoffs) this year.
I don't think it is really possible to argue who was more important to their team; Manning or Brady. Manning was definitely way more important to his teams than Brady was; Brady has had baller defenses for his SB wins and will do so this year if he does. The years where Brady has had super good offenses and mediocre defenses; he lost.
Gronk is the MVP of this year's NE team, not Brady. Hell, Brady might not even be second, Revis might be second.
To me, SB wins aren't important because we know they are far more a function of a team's excellence rather than a single player. Unless you're going to argue that Trent Dilfer is as good as Aaron Rodgers.
Just like his belly.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
Aaron Rodgers has the all time NFL record for most touchdown passes, most yards, least interceptions, and highest QB rating over first 100 starts.
He's all time leader in QB rating.
He's all time leader in QB rating.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
double post
PeregrinSe7en
Member
IAmRandom31
Banned
Considering every QB tries to copy his line management and considering the numbers and everything. Pretty easy to say YES
This paragraph made me laugh. Are you just saying that a great team needs a great coach to keep them motivated? No shit.
Or are you saying that Peyton helped hide a terrible job of team building by a GM, which is also obvious.
The fact that you're saying that Peyton can cause the team around him to regress is silly.
Who let you out?
Thanks for the memories, Peyton. You're one of the all time greats, no doubt. The future is here though.
They say alcohol is a truth serum.
I'm just letting everyone know about the impending Restoration of the Roar.
You know who Stafford reminds me of? Brett Favre, and I'm not joking. You can see the gunslinger in those green/blue eyes. He's looking right at you.
It doesn't matter if it's triple coverage, Stafford has the arm to drop it so fast those three DBs won't even know what hit them.
At 23 during his 2011 season he fucked around and dropped 5,000 Yards, 41 TDs and 16 INTs. That was with Titus Young as his #2 reciever.
And now with a great receiving core and one of the league's best defenses, he still hasn't ever beaten a winning team on the road.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
It is Tom Brady, we can no longer deny this man's greatness. Dude won with Julian Edelman as his best WR against the Legion of Boom. I was in awe of the way he played against a great defense as a Peyton Manning fan I have acknowledged the truth. No matter how Seahawks fucked up, Brady did his job gave his team an opportunity to take the lead and did that.
Hats off to him. Today Edelman, Gronk and Brady earned my respect.
Hats off to him. Today Edelman, Gronk and Brady earned my respect.
It's an honor to be #2 (or whatever Peyton is) to Tom Brady
Chiggs
Gold Member
Broncos fans are having to come to grips with Brady's greatness.
You just can't argue with 4 Lombardis. Granted, the Seahawks should have won that game...but at this point it simply does not matter.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
A cursory glance at my QB memory bank has Brady ranked 9th behind Montana, Elway, Marino, Moon, Kelly, Manning, Young and Favre. Though I suppose when you're in that kind of company they're all basically interchangeable anyway.
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
8th. He's better than Favre.
- Status