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Is physical retaliation for verbal abuse ever justifiable?

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JayDubya said:
I'm not slippery sloping anything. It's wrong to throw the first punch and it's wrong to "throw the first punch." It's a moral failure every time.

Sticks and stones and all that. Emotional pain from verbal abuse is quite real, and don't I fucking know it. Even still.
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It's wrong, but there's quite the leap between shooting someone -- a burglar or whatever -- and punching someone in the face.

So yes, it's wrong to punch someone. It pretty much always is. But continous verbal abuse isn't anyhting to toy with either and can easily be worse for the person who's getting the words thrown at him. Or is a single punch always worse than heavy verbal abuse?

EDIT: The thing about the punch, I guess, is the possibility of elevating the stuff even more. But then again -- you can say that about some verbal stuff too.
 
The breaking point of this is the fact we will never have a "set in stone" idea of what is too much, what point someone verbally crosses the line into asking for physical violence. There are situations, such as levious's post, where there is a clear wrongdoing occurring and the only answer to that is to get physical with the person. But where is the line? About a week ago I came back to Baltimore and was walking in Wal-Mart to buy an electric razor; some other guy was walking forward towards his buddy standing in line but was looking in the opposite direction. I just kept walking straight and the guy stopped, barely before my shoulder was planted into his, just avoiding bumping. I just kept walking, but both him and his friend at first shouted rudely, "EXCUSE ME!" and then called me an asshole. I could have turned around and yelled at the guy, pointing out what an immense asshole both of them were being since it was the friend who wasn't looking where he was going and got in my way. I judged their demeanor and, being Wal-Mart, decided to keep walking away because I had the idea it would escalate into a physical match.

All of this is taking into account the fact that most of us have pride in something. Whether it is our family, ourselves, our work, or something we've done, there are things that we hold precious and dear to us. We simply don't like having those things verbally abused by anyone. However, I think the threat of physical violence is what keeps some people from making comments out loud. Obviously, this kind of thinking tends to favor people with more dominant physical personalities and lets them "get away" with being more blunt and outspoken.

That's why there are forums, I suppose.
 
To all the people saying there is no grounds to legally put some asshat in their place, I'd say it would depend on how good your lawyer is and what was said for you to physically retaliate. The jury is supposedly of your peers, so if enough of them relate to you losing your cool then you're golden.

Hypothetical situation: What if someone is making obscene gestures at your wife while calling her a slut or describing sexual acts that the assailant says she performed on him?
 
It's absolutely justifiable but everyone circumstances is different. I'd rather get beat down then watch someone try to disrespect my kid wife or my family. That pain would be worse. I don't see how anyone can say it's clear cut and dry not justifiable. That saying " well he had it coming to him " can be true.
 
it's not justifiable per se, but I think there's a limit for everything and generally depends upon circumstances

you insult me, my family or my woman, I talk you back and ask you to quit the bullshit in a gentle but rock-solid manner. If you insist provoking me and generally being an asshole, I grab your throaut and slam you to a wall, looking directly into your eyes and telling you to shut the fuck up

if you keep insisting I punch you. It's that simple
 
Flo_Evans said:
No.

Resorting to physical retaliation for verbal insults is pretty much admitting you are stupid.
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Unless, you know, you really think it's worth the fine and/or prison sentence for aggravated assault.
 
Aggression is aggression. Verbal and physical are both on the same continuum. Nothing's ever black and white - this is just a mental exercise. Fact is if someone is verbally abusing you, you have to consider all the aspects. Are they armed? What's their proximity to you? Where are you? Who's the person abusing you - do you know them?

I think I'm like most people: Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. Not only will I leave you alone, I'll respect your right to dignity.
 
Anasui Kishibe said:
it's not justifiable per se, but I think there's a limit for everything and generally depends upon circumstances

you insult me, my family or my woman, I talk you back and ask you to quit the bullshit in a gentle but rock-solid manner. If you insist provoking me and generally being an asshole, I grab your throaut and slam you to a wall, looking directly into your eyes and telling you to shut the fuck up

if you keep insisting I punch you. It's that simple
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Pretty much.
 
sonarrat said:
Unless, you know, you really think it's worth the fine and/or prison sentence for aggravated assault.
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Familiar with the expression "a coward dies a thousand deaths"? I'm not saying be a ball's-to-the-wall hardcore meathead who's only avenue of settling a dispute is violence, but just consider the expression before completely writing it off. Some insults are irreconcilable or so powerful they take one beyond rational thought.

Would giving someone that horribly insulted someone close to me be worth the price of court fees? A better question would be: Would having my wife not doubt me or look at me as a coward (or even have to question whether or not she does see me as such) be worth the court fees?
 
Not a good idea. You never know who has a weapon, whose friends will jump in, who will call the police, who will get the upper hand in the fight, whatever. Also, the throat grab mentioned above could easily kill a person.
 
Dali said:
Familiar with the expression "a coward dies a thousand deaths"? I'm not saying be a ball's-to-the-wall hardcore meathead who's only avenue of settling a dispute is violence, but just consider the expression before completely writing it off. Some insults are irreconcilable or so powerful they take one beyond rational thought.

Would giving someone that horribly insulted someone close to me be worth the price of court fees? A better question would be: Would having my wife not doubt me or look at me as a coward (or even have to question whether or not she does see me as such) be worth the court fees?
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I would rather be looked at as a coward than as a lunkhead.
 
Dali said:
Familiar with the expression "a coward dies a thousand deaths"? I'm not saying be a ball's-to-the-wall hardcore meathead who's only avenue of settling a dispute is violence, but just consider the expression before completely writing it off. Some insults are irreconcilable or so powerful they take one beyond rational thought.

Would giving someone that horribly insulted someone close to me be worth the price of court fees? A better question would be: Would having my wife not doubt me or look at me as a coward (or even have to question whether or not she does see me as such) be worth the court fees?
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Yeah, if your wife sees you as a coward, you probably have some other problem. A good wife would understand either way.

I wouldn't react with violence because of how people around me might feel about me. I'd react on one of those days, when I'm already in a bad mood, and someone pisses me off further I can snap into a semi crazy mode.
 
Depends on the person. Personally I wouldn't give someone the satisfaction of kicking their ass just because they said something about my girlfriend/mom/whatever - no matter how heinous
 
sonarrat said:
I would rather be looked at as a coward than as a lunkhead.
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lil smoke said:
Yeah, if your wife sees you as a coward, you probably have some other problem. A good wife would understand either way.

I wouldn't react with violence because of how people around me might feel about me. I'd react on one of those days, when I'm already in a bad mood, and someone pisses me off further I can snap into a semi crazy mode.
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So using my first hypothetical where a guy is being extremely disrespectful, I assume you guys would just say, "oh you!" and just try to ignore them? I'm don't think there is a woman on the planet that wouldn't feel a little admiration for a guy that said "I don't know what came over me. When he started making those gestures and the things he said... I just lost it. I'm sorry honey." You can go back to being a eunuch after the fact.

I guess I'm to understand that neither of you have sensitive issues that probably shouldn't be touched as was the case with Levious? Don't construe what I'm saying as, "Your wife's a bitch!" *Smack*. No, I'm talking about being pushed and prodded to that point.
 
Dali said:
Familiar with the expression "a coward dies a thousand deaths"? I'm not saying be a ball's-to-the-wall hardcore meathead who's only avenue of settling a dispute is violence, but just consider the expression before completely writing it off. Some insults are irreconcilable or so powerful they take one beyond rational thought.

Would giving someone that horribly insulted someone close to me be worth the price of court fees? A better question would be: Would having my wife not doubt me or look at me as a coward (or even have to question whether or not she does see me as such) be worth the court fees?
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the coward is the one who can only open their mouth to provoke, but is unwilling to throw the first punch.

nowadays, i'm really good at walking away.
 
I just yawn and walk away. People who feel the need to try and insult you usually aren't very creative anyway, so it's easier and far less boring for me to just walk away and just go do something more interesting...like solitaire or something.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Depends on the person. Personally I wouldn't give someone the satisfaction of kicking their ass just because they said something about my girlfriend/mom/whatever - no matter how heinous
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...

what?
 
I have a short temper so naturally I've been in quite a few fights. While not justifiable, I'm certainly not going to hold any punches back.
 
Dali said:
So using my first hypothetical where a guy is being extremely disrespectful, I assume you guys would just say, "oh you!" and just try to ignore them?
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Yes. And if the other guy escalated it I'd have my phone out to call the cops.
 
In one sense, I really want to say that no it is never justifiable. However, a lot of times such verbal abuse is aimed specifically to invoke a physical retaliation. In such cases I really can't help but feel that physical retaliation is justifiable because it is the intended action which the verbal abuse is trying evoke.
 
It makes you automatically lose whatever argument you were in, but sometimes, in rare circumstances, the situation does call for a little of the old ultraviolence.
 
If I truly believe someone is going to hurt someone else (namely myself) I have no qualms with striking first. Hit first, hit hard. If it's just an argument and I come to the conclusion that I have to knock some sense into them, I usually just decide I can go on in life without that person.

So, yes it is sometimes justifiable, but no, verbal abuse shouldn't be outlawed.
 
Dali said:
I guess I'm to understand that neither of you have sensitive issues that probably shouldn't be touched as was the case with Levious? Don't construe what I'm saying as, "Your wife's a bitch!" *Smack*. No, I'm talking about being pushed and prodded to that point.
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No, I see what you're saying. I'm trying to be nice here, because I know GAF is ultra-sensitive. I'm not trying to get banned by telling you what I would really do to people that F with me!
 
dabookerman said:
If someone is insulting your own mother, right in front of you. I can't see how anyone couldnt stop themselves.
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I remember my mother telling me to NOT get into fights over things like that, because she just doesn't care. :lol
 
Anasui Kishibe said:
I'd say mental wounds, but some assholes just don't care about verbal beat up
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Exactly, I mean why is rape considered such a hideous crime? Rape only bruises its victim it is the mental aspect to it that causes the real damage. And the reason why so many Gaffers believe a person who rapes another person needs to be castrated or killed.
 
Nope, never.

levious, what good did that do?

There are two scenarios I see in that situation:

1. He said what he did to get a rise out of your cousin or you, and didn't mean it.

2. He meant what he said.

If it was option 1, then you would have been better off walking away, letting both parties calm down, and approaching him again at a later time.

If it was option 2, then he's an idiotic religious nut, and punching him won't change his mind.

It seems like a lot of people need the satisfaction of "putting people in there place", or "giving them what they've got coming." I guess I don't see how punching someone would satisfy you, but that's just me. I certainly understand the urge to want to beat someone for saying something like that, but I never think you should.
 
Physically retaliate, as in a sucker-punch? No.

Kindly ask them to step outside or, if already outside, take off my coat and wristwatch? Yes.
 
I have to wonder if all these dudes talking about "defending" their "womans" "honor" have either a woman or any honor.

Heres a tip: most women do NOT like their men getting in bar fights.
 
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will break my heart...."

:lol

Words have much more potential for long lasting damage. A punch in the face will heal in time.

It's ok to break someones lips if they cause you grievous verbal harm. If you kill them/disable them in the process then you went too far. Just a quick efficient jab to the lips, to shut them up.
 
If violence is justified in response to words, then it wouldn't matter whether the person talking was man or woman, right?
 
APF said:
If violence is justified in response to words, then it wouldn't matter whether the person talking was man or woman, right?
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Women are more responsive to words, since they appear to be more emotive. So gender should be taken into consideration. If a woman verbally assaulted me I would humiliate her in public, with a verbal retort of my own.

Men understand brute force better, although words can still naturally hurt. Women are the opposite. So it works best to use the most appropriate weapon the occasion calls for.
 
APF said:
If violence is justified in response to words, then it wouldn't matter whether the person talking was man or woman, right?
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I'd say a lot of men (not all) would be more reluctant to physically retaliate against a woman than a man. Like, a woman would have to do a lot more for a man to throw a punch in her face contrary to had it been a man.
 
Arthas said:
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will break my heart...."

:lol

Words have much more potential for long lasting damage. A punch in the face will heal in time.

It's ok to break someones lips if they cause you grievous verbal harm. If you kill them/disable them in the process then you went too far. Just a quick efficient jab to the lips, to shut them up.
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You've never been in a fight have you?
 
Flo_Evans said:
You've never been in a fight have you?
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Yes I have :lol

This thread applies to me on many counts, I was verbally assaulted for about 4 years non-stop, until I snapped, and realized..what a fool I had been, physical violence does solve many things, quickly and efficiently.

Oh and just to add, an honorable vanquished enemy will always gain respect for you and back off after a beating. After two fights I became good friends with my former assailants.
Those that continue to bear a grudge deserve to have their limbs broken the second time, until the respect is there.

Of course it helps to be bigger, stronger and have a secure group of friends to help you punish those who have wronged you.
 
Arthas said:
Women are more responsive to words, since they appear to be more emotive. So gender should be taken into consideration. If a woman verbally assaulted me I would humiliate her in public, with a verbal retort of my own.

Men understand brute force better, although words can still naturally hurt. Women are the opposite. So it works best to use the most appropriate weapon the occasion calls for.
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If men respond to violence more than they respond to words, then a man would have to say a lot worse to another man, in order for that man to respond with violence ;)


elektrikluv said:
I'd say a lot of men (not all) would be more reluctant to physically retaliate against a woman than a man. Like, a woman would have to do a lot more for a man to throw a punch in her face contrary to had it been a man.
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Agreed, but I think it's more, men are indoctrinated to want to hierarchically- prove / order themselves physically above other men, and don't (necessarily) have that level of competition with women; combine this with longstanding socialization into the idea that men must "defend honor" with fists (or steel, bullets, etc) and you have a lot of guys reaching pretty far to justify starting a fight with other guys. If words were words, and were damaging as words themselves, it wouldn't matter if the person saying it was a child, man, woman, elderly, etc--if violence is a justified response, it's justified in each situation equally.
 
Arthas said:
Yes I have :lol

This thread applies to me on many counts, I was verbally assaulted for about 4 years non-stop, until I snapped, and realized..what a fool I had been, physical violence does solve many things, quickly and efficiently.

Oh and just to add, an honorable vanquished enemy will always gain respect for you and back off after a beating. After two fights I became good friends with my former assailants.
Those that continue to bear a grudge deserve to have their limbs broken the second time, until the respect is there.

Of course it helps to be bigger, stronger and have a secure group of friends to help you punish those who have wronged you.
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:lol or press charges... I have to assume you learned these valuable life lessons in grade school.
 
Isn't this also a case of bullying?

I mean, if someone is being bullied for weeks, all verbal abuse, I mean, a good bat to the face is certainly justified. I certainly think so.

I guess, it's tough to get out of the legal implications though.
 
Nicktals said:
Nope, never.

levious, what good did that do?

There are two scenarios I see in that situation:

1. He said what he did to get a rise out of your cousin or you, and didn't mean it.

2. He meant what he said.

If it was option 1, then you would have been better off walking away, letting both parties calm down, and approaching him again at a later time.

If it was option 2, then he's an idiotic religious nut, and punching him won't change his mind.
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People shouldn't be able say whatever they want with no fear of consequences. Rewarding that kind of behavior by doing nothing is immoral. Even if the prick believes this at least he'll think twice about expressing that particular opinion again.
 
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