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[Sami+]

I've been replaying Sonic 3 recently and I'm honestly a bit confused about something. Most of the time when people talk about Sonic, Sonic 2 is overwhelmingly considered the best one in the series. I understand why it's so loved because it's really fucking good, but what I'm not quite on the same page on is when people say or imply that Sonic 3 was a step down.

Preference is obviously the most important factor here, so I'm curious what GAF has to say about it. Personally, I vastly prefer Sonic 3 overall to its predecessors simply because it improves upon pretty much everything and expands on the core mechanics in tons of ways. Sonic's insta-shield ability adds an extra layer of depth to the game and heightens the skill ceiling a bit without being obtrusive, the elemental shields are a lot of fun to play with and complement the level designs well, it adds a new playable character and the level design suits both his and Tails' abilities better than Sonic 2's levels did. It's the perfect sequel - adding plenty of new content and improving what's there without taking anything away.

I also think that the art style and music are both better in Sonic 3&K, but that's as subjective as it gets. It's a very pretty game to look at and some of the songs (particularly Hydrocity and Flying Battery) are among the best the entire series has to offer.

So what's the GAF consensus on best Sonic game? 2 or 3&K?

Spoiler

any answer that isn't 2 or 3 is wrong except for CD which is acceptable

 

[23qwerty]

Thought it was consensus that 3 is better? I'd definitely say so.

 

[Betty]

Yes, absolutely.

Sonic & Knuckles is even better than Sonic 3 I'd say, although both are part's 1 and 2 of the same game really.

 

[Toxi]

Thought it was consensus that 3 is better? I'd definitely say so.

Same. I personally prefer Sonic 2 for its more straightforward levels, but I thought consensus out Sonic 3 and Knuckles as the best.

And CD is garbage.

 

[ghibli99]

3 definitely plays better. It's been a while, but I think I liked the music from 2 better, though.

As for the spoilered part, I think CD is the weakest. I do like the time travel mechanic, but the game just feels sluggish, and those bonus stages are terrible.

 

[Coffee Dog]

As a whole, yes.

Individually, I'd put the Sonic 3 below Sonic 2. Sonic 2 is a lot more consistent, and has the best marriage of art style/OST/environment design.

 

[Sami+]

Thought it was consensus that 3 is better? I'd definitely say so.

Among the fanbase I think so, but I feel like I've heard Sonic 2 namedropped as the peak of the series most often.

 

[HUELEN10]

Since its a saga comprised of multiple games, wouldn't the fairer comparison be to Sonic 4? You said CD is acceptable, and that is part of 4, so I'll say that the 4 Saga kicks the 3 Saga's ass any day of the week; no contest.

 

[RedSwirl]

In my opinion, yes.

For personal reasons Sonic 3 is actually my #1 game. Ever.

 

[Frecklestein]

I'm a Sanic 2 kinda guy, personally. Just a much more fun game in general.

 

[Sami+]

As a whole, yes.

Individually, I'd put the Sonic 3 below Sonic 2. Sonic 2 is a lot more consistent, and has the best marriage of art style/OST/environment design.

Consistency is actually one of my biggest qualms with Sonic 2. I feel like the enemy placement and level design start to fall apart around Oil Ocean or so, and Hill Top being an Emerald Hill palette swap is super lame.

Since its a saga comprised of multiple games, wouldn't the fairer comparison be to Sonic 4? You said CD is acceptable, and that is part of 4, so I'll say that the 4 Saga kicks the 3 Saga's ass any day of the week; no contest.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is just one game that had to get split due to budgeting and rushed development. It's pretty much the world's first DLC - I wouldn't call it a "saga" or whatever.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

Sonic 3's saving grace is the 3D bonus stage. It was a by the numbers sequel. Which seemed rushed. It was only until the announcement of the lock-on cartridge that the game become a worthy sequel to Sonic 2. It's good but Sonic 2 is just an overall better game.

 

[CHusson91]

I always thought so as a kid. Haven't played Sonic and Knuckles in years to say so now though.

 

[Zimmy64]

Sonic 3 & K is almost certainly a better game than Sonic 2. Sonic CD is decent. Its strange up until 7-8 years ago the general consensus was that CD was by far the best Sonic game and then one day everyone woke up and realized that its actually not that great. (the worst in the original Sonic series IMO).

 

[Sami+]

Sonic 3's saving grace is the 3D bonus stage. It was a by the numbers sequel. Which seemed rushed. It was only until the announcement of the lock-on cartridge that the game become a worthy sequel to Sonic 2. It's good but Sonic 2 is just an overall better game.

What's by the numbers about it though? I'm genuinely curious. The level design is absolutely gargantuan in comparison, the story is more involved, we got a new character, the art style got overhauled, there are a lot more levels, and there are new mechanics to play with. What else is a sequel supposed to be?

Not trying to be combative haha, I'm honestly curious what you'd rather it have done.

 

[Dunkley]

Sonic 3 & Knuckles by far is the prime of the series, followed closely by Taxman's Sonic CD remake.

 

[Qasiel]

Absolutely. For all the reasons listed (I love Flying Battery and Hydrocity's music too, as well as Lava Reef Act 1). Also, playing Doomsday Zone as Hyper Sonic was fantastic.

I always preferred the Special Stages over Sonic 2's, too.

... I'm going to have to go and dig it out now.

 

[Zalman]

Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are better than Sonic 2 even as separate games. If you combine them into one, then it's not even a question.

 

[Seven Force]

I feel like Sonic 3&K is a little too gimmick oriented in comparison to 2. When the gimmicks are fun, they're good, but when they're bad, they're bad. (Sandopolis comes to mind)

On the other hand, Sonic 2 starts off strong and promptly goes downhill around Oil Ocean, whereas S3&K has a few scattered standout levels (Hydrocity, Icecap, Flying Battery) here and there, but once the game hits Lava Reef, it ramps up significantly. The stretch of levels from Lava Reef and ending with the Doomsday Zone are arguably the peak of the entire series. The bosses and the level design are totally on point there.

I give the edge to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. When I play Sonic 2, I usually play up to Oil Ocean, say "Welp, that was fun!" and switch to something else.

 

[Forkball]

I say Knucks kinds of breaks some levels in Sonic 3.

 

[Timeless]

I need to find every single person who said CD was the best one and demand my money back for the XBLA re-release.

It seemed like everyone said CD was the best.

 

[HUELEN10]

I need to find every single person who said CD was the best one and demand my money back for the XBLA re-release.

It seemed like everyone said CD was the best.

Not their fault you're wrong.

 

[The Sarcastic Dude]

It sure is.

 

[Sami+]

I need to find every single person who said CD was the best one and demand my money back for the XBLA re-release.

It seemed like everyone said CD was the best.

I was one of them for a while, not sure why in retrospect lol. I blame ScrewAttack.

I do still like CD and I might put it above 2, but it doesn't touch 3.

 

[Alec]

CD is absolutely the best.

S3&K is right behind it.

 

[Nanashrew]

I say Knucks kinds of breaks some levels in Sonic 3.

This is his legacy. Knuckles breaks games.

It's why he's the best though <3

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Sonic 3 is definitely the best.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

It's definitely a much... longer game.

As for better? No, I can't say that. I think I prefer pretty much everything about Sonic 2 over Sonic 3, especially the art style and music. But the added ability of Tails being able to fly and carry you is pretty neat.

If I'm being honest, I'm really more of a Sonic 1/Sonic CD kind of guy.

 

[entremet]

Sonic 2 ages terribly. It's my least favorite of the Genesis/Sega CD games.

 

[kodecraft]

Thought it was consensus that 3 is better? I'd definitely say so.

Same here, never seen a lot of gamers state that Sonic 2 as the best in the series.

 

[B.K.]

No. 2 is the best Sonic.

 

[televator]

Duh. Obviously. The music alone is God tier.

 

[Jotamide]

Short answer: yes

Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

 

[Qasiel]

I say Knucks kinds of breaks some levels in Sonic 3.

He destroys Sonic 2 when it's locked-on.

 

[Axiology]

Sonic 3&K is massively better than 2. In fact, 2 is not even a good game.

So much of 2's design transcends "git gud scrub" and becomes seriously frustrating. Chemical Plant Zone is an early example, and the bullshit just continues from there. I've tried multiple times to find where the value is really hiding, and I'm not usually one to blame nostalgia, but I can't see how 3&K doesn't improve on 2 in almost every single way, even with the unforgivable barrel taken into consideration. In some ways the extreme length and frustrating design of 2's Metropolis Zone is just as unforgivable, if not more so. 3 learned to moderate the difficulty so the game was actually fun to play.

2 does deserve credit for being the first game to really polish up Sonic's basic gameplay to the super fun peak that was carried into 3, but besides that and aesthetic aspects of the game, it's not all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Welfare]

3&K was definitely the best.

Still don't see the appeal for CD. Thought it was alright.

 

[Altered Juice]

sonic 3&k simply had better level designs and bosses. now i dont want to say sonic 2 is "hold right to win!" but it's lacking in the platform department compared to sonic 3

 

[Anth0ny]

DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE







2 is barely better. God tier level design puts it over. Also, Sonic's derp sprite in Sonic 3 hurts the game tremendously.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

3&K is the zenith of the franchise

all downhill since then

 

[Sami+]

DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE







2 is barely better. God tier level design puts it over. Also, Sonic's derp sprite in Sonic 3 hurts the game tremendously.

I like it tbh. He looks fierce, lol.

3&K is the zenith of the franchise

all downhill since then

It's gotten a couple of spikes in Colors and Gens but yeah pretty much, neither of those games are anywhere near S3&K.

 

[Betty]

Still don't see the appeal for CD. Thought it was alright.

Yeah the praise baffles me, other than the animated Sonic Boom cutscene the game is pretty average. The time travel mechanic was weird, a lot of the stages were ugly and forgettable and it's kinda boring.

The race with Metal Sonic was fun though.

 

[Malajax]

Since its a saga comprised of multiple games, wouldn't the fairer comparison be to Sonic 4? You said CD is acceptable, and that is part of 4, so I'll say that the 4 Saga kicks the 3 Saga's ass any day of the week; no contest.

4 is what comes to mind when they say "hold right to win". Episode 2 was ok, but it's not even in the same ballpark as 3&k.

And yes, 3&k is better than 2. Brought a lot to the table and they never really expanded on that formula.

 

[Zimmy64]

I feel like Sonic 3&K is a little too gimmick oriented in comparison to 2. When the gimmicks are fun, they're good, but when they're bad, they're bad. (Sandopolis comes to mind)

On the other hand, Sonic 2 starts off strong and promptly goes downhill around Oil Ocean, whereas S3&K has a few scattered standout levels (Hydrocity, Icecap, Flying Battery) here and there, but once the game hits Lava Reef, it ramps up significantly. The stretch of levels from Lava Reef and ending with the Doomsday Zone are arguably the peak of the entire series. The bosses and the level design are totally on point there.

I give the edge to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. When I play Sonic 2, I usually play up to Oil Ocean, say "Welp, that was fun!" and switch to something else.

Yep, Sonic 2 around Oil Ocean feels almost like a different game to me. In comparison my experience with Sonic 3 & K goes like

Angel Island (good)
Hydrocity (amazing)
Marble Garden (Boring, but good boss)
Carnival Night (Screw that dumb Barrel)
Ice Cap (Great)
Launch Base (Good)
Mushroom Hill (Good)
Flying Battery (Good)
Sandopolis (Pretty bad)
Lava Reef (Good)
Hidden Palace (short and barely a level, but the boss fight against Knuckles is one of my favorite moments in the series).
Sky Sanctuary (Absolutely fantastic)
Death Egg (good)
Doomsday/Final Boss (Great, another of my favorite moments in the entire series).

Sonic 3 &K is way more consistent. It gets kinda bad in the middle of Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles, but what follows, Ice Cap in 3 and the trio of Lava Reef, Hidden Palace, Sky Sanctuary in Knuckles, makes you instantly forgive it.

 

[Bar81]

And CD is garbage.

 

[Chubzdoomer]

Personally, I never liked the massive stages in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. They just dragged on and on. It was almost as if Sonic Team tried too hard with those games.

I always felt like Sonic 2 was Sonic the Hedgehog perfected, and that it sported the best level design in the franchise by far. Starting with Sonic 3, the games just became... for lack of a better word, bloated.

 

[Sami+]

4 is what comes to mind when they say "hold right to win". Episode 2 was ok, but it's not even in the same ballpark as 3&k.

Ballpark? They're not even the same fuckin sport. Sonic 4 sucks.

 

[Goo]

I prefer 2 overall. I like the art style better. The upgraded power ups in 3 are really great though.

 

[Toxi]

Personally, I never liked the massive stages in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. They just dragged on and on. It was almost as if Sonic Team tried too hard with those games.

This is my main issue with Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Stages are just way too big for their own good. It's fine if the stage is fantastic like Hydrocity Zone, but a lesser stage like Carnival Night or Sandopolis just never ends.

 

[daydream]

2 as a whole is tighter, more focused. The level design in 3 is a step down.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Sonic 3&K is the best Sonic game in existence. If you separate it into Sonic 3 and S&K, then I would say Sonic 2 is better. But I'm not sure why you wouldn't play them combined, the way they were meant to be.