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Is the course timer still necessary in Super Mario 3D World?

B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
I know I am getting a lot of eye rolls just from the title but please hear me out. I understand that it is a fundamental part of the 2D mario games but I feel like it directly impacts my enjoyment of 3D World. Some of the levels in 3D world are more open and encourage a little more experimentation than the other games and nothing annoys me more than starting a level that has this great open layout and slowly exploring all the nooks and crannies just to hear the countdown timer : / Great now I have to run my ass off and skip everything so I can start the level again to see what I missed.

IMO the first time you enter the level there should be no timer. Go to town, explore and experiment then should you choose the second time you go to the level there is now a timer. Even the way the ghost mii's show up on your second run seems to encourage this anyways.

What do you guys think?

Also random side note: Where is my triple jump and Why can't I surf on turtle shells!
 
I think the game is easy enough as it is but there should be an option to turn it off for those that want to explore.

Kind of like Spelunky's ghost.
 
yes! it adds more depth to the game.

and there is always watches to add more time .. that is the whole point for a good run.
 
Some of my favorite levels are the ones in 3D land where you have a very short amount of time to finish a course and can pick up time extension pieces.
 
There's a few stages specifically built around the challenge of the timer, so it's necessary in that respect. It was also used to great effect in NSLU recently so I'm fond of it. It forces you into building momentum in some stages and doesn't encourage sitting around trying over and over for green stars.
 
I have to give your main question some thought OP but as to your secondary questions:

-The game would be too easy with the triple jump

-You cannot surf shells but you can ride inside of them
 
I think its fine as it is, but I agree on making it optional, or disabled under certain circumstances. For some courses at least
 
The levels may seem more open but they aren't open world. Beyond the collectables, there's no reason to explore. While I will say that it was almost unnecessary in my case since I rarely, if ever, ran it down during a level, it was welcome in alot of cases for putting on pressure for getting me to do accurate platforming quickly.
 
Bombcast discussed this yesterday and Klepek nailed it. It stills adds an element of "hustle", as he said, with enough time to explore but still have something to pressure you and not get too comfortable.

To be fair, the timer is always lenient in all Mario games, maybe except Super Luigi U.
 
The timer honestly feels like it's there specifically to stop you standing around so that you don't notice just how barren the levels are compared to the previous console 3D marios.
 
god I wish I could shut that timer off... I always find myself looking around and exploring and then next thing I know I have like 50 secs left on the timer...
 
jchap said:
Some of my favorite levels are the ones in 3D land where you have a very short amount of time to finish a course and can pick up time extension pieces.
Click to expand...

I should have noted this as well. There are several levels that are perfection with the timer but they seem to be a little more linear than some of the open areas.
 
MYE said:
I think its fine as it is, but I agree on making it optional, or disabled under certain circumstances. For some courses at least
Click to expand...

Noooo no no no. The last few Mario games have succeeded in finally actually adding some challenge to the formula, we don't need to start sending the message that we don't want that.
 
elrechazado said:
Depth? There is no more depth in this mechanic than there is in score. Archaic holdovers from multiple generations ago.
Click to expand...

I fully disagree. The mechanics of a FUN game are never archaic. being able to carefully take you time to line up complicated jumps / slowly explore is just not fun nor skillful.


the timer is a big part of the gameplay. Taking away the timer in my eyes is like FPS going from mazes to corridors with cutscenes.
 
pixlexic said:
the timer is a big part of the gameplay. Taking away the timer in my eyes is like FPS going from mazes to corridors with cutscenes.
Click to expand...

What.

So you think that Mario 64/Sunshine/Most of the levels in Galaxy 1/2 were the equivilant of "corridors with cutscenes" to mario 3d land/world... because the latter 2 have timers?

Really?
 
H_Prestige said:
The game is a series of obstacle courses. Obstacle courses need to have timers.
Click to expand...

I would agree if the stars were always included in the layout of a level that encouraged quick perfect platforming but that isn't always the case. A lot of them are hidden and require you to go out of the main course to find.
 
I think the levels that only give you 100 seconds to beat where the entire point of the stage is to beat the level quickly are great. They're nice little time based challenge levels. But ordinary levels having a timer can fuck off. Punishing the player for exploring is never a good thing. It doesn't make the level more challenging. It just makes it more annoying if you're trying to explore or just want to take your time.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
What.

So you think that Mario 64/Sunshine/Most of the levels in Galaxy 1/2 were the equivilant of "corridors with cutscenes" to mario 3d land/world... because the latter 2 have timers?

Really?
Click to expand...


3d world is not like mario 64 .. its like SMB1/3/world. the timer is a big part of it.
 
Probably not. It's a holdover like lives.

pixlexic said:
I fully disagree. The mechanics of a FUN game are never archaic. being able to carefully take you time to line up complicated jumps / slowly explore is just not fun nor skillful.


the timer is a big part of the gameplay. Taking away the timer in my eyes is like FPS going from mazes to corridors with cutscenes.
Click to expand...

Well, shit. Lets put a timer in every game if it's so great.
 
I hate the timer, its fine for levels where its designed that way and you are supposed to rush and its more of a pure platforming skillz one.

But as a regular level I haaaate wanting to explore around and enjoy things/check every nook and cranny but oh no sorry you 'wasted' time now you either speed run through the 2nd half of the level and miss/not enjoy things or you die.

:|

At least make the checkpoint give more time so if I at least get to that I get more explore time.

It gets to the point where its like oh good I died now I can go back to the middle of the level with reset time and explore more.

Really shouldn't be like that and is one of the only annoying things left in Mario games IMO. Punishing someone like me who wants to explore all there is to see.
 
I think the timer works fine with the game. The pacing of the levels and their design don't really work against having a timer, and exploration to find secrets is made more tense since there is a risk to measure it against.

If one is determined to see any Mario game with 3D movement as a sandbox to run around in all day, you get what you bring with you.
 
I like the REALLY SHORT timer in a few of the courses but the standard ~300 timer in the regular courses should have been removed. It's fun to screw around in the 3D Mario games and the timer works against that.
 
The only reason the timer is even there is because it's "classic". Because it was there in the original Mario games. Just like lives. Both the timer and lives need to go imo. There's no reason for them being there other than tradition, and and tradition is not a valid reason as far as I'm concerned.
 
The game is more arcade than an adventure/exploration type of deal, which definitely shouldn't have a timer.

Helps with the feeling of tension and keeps the maps from getting too stale.
 
I hate the timer, exploration is involved in many levels to find all the green stars and the stamp. I believe the timer is in there just because 3D World has an identity crisis and wants to be a 2D Mario game.

The concept of lives on a game that

A) Gives them away like candy
B) saves after every level

is pointless. You run out of lives, you lose nothing and only pick up where you left off.

Skyzard said:
Helps with the feeling of tension and keeps the maps from getting too stale.
Click to expand...

It's the opposite in my opinion. Having to re-enter levels so you can explore more than the timer allows makes the maps stale.
 
Was it ever necessary even in the 2D titles?

Reason why arcade games had them was because the point of a arcade machine was to get people to play and then get them the fuck out of the game, so someone else can blow more money on the machine. Its why every beat em up had a timer and had a giant arrow pointing you to move forward. Otherwise players could just stand still and the arcade owner made no money. It feels like that arcade thing carried on to some NES titles such as SMB, Ninja Gaiden etc, but added nothing really. Mega Man had no timer and it made no difference, yet Castlevania did have a timer

In Marios case that is completely unnecessary now and has been for years. It feels like a legacy thing more than a feature to add anything to do the game. Nintendo has plenty of timed challenges in these games that actually do focus on the time and how quick you are, such as red coins and tons of other stuff in the series.
 
I think that the timer and score, except for some exceptions, are completely unnecessary in Mario games as a whole, even the 2D ones. There are of course some good uses for the timer, such as Time Attack modes or some stages where the goal is to rush through the stage. But for most levels, the timer only serves to punish the people who want to explore and find all the secrets in a level.

And score is just pointless.
 
I think the green stars and stamps are the perfect marker for how much you explored each level, so the timer doesn't matter anyway.
 
Certain stages benefit from it, in others it's just there to annoy. Mario and Zelda both need little updates to archaic and dated mechanics and staples in a few little spots. Coins are the main thing I'd love to see revamped for good.
 
In side-scrolling games, a timer is part of the challenge - make it to the end of the level before time runs out.
Obviously Mario 3D Land isn't a pure side-scroller, but it still uses a timer as part of the challenge.

Still, I think the timer should be there on the first play-through, but, once you've shown you can beat it within the time limit, it should go away.

Now, as far as a game that was completely ruined by a timer, there's Majora's Mask. Setting a time limit on a game so focused on exploring and discovery was horrible.
 
terrisus said:
Now, as far as a game that was completely ruined by a timer, there's Majora's Mask. Setting a time limit on a game so focused on exploring and discovery was horrible.
Click to expand...

The timer in Majora's Mask is literally the point of the game. This shows how people who want to play a game a specific way may see its design as bad, if it isn't designed to be played the way they want to play it.
 
akidnamededdy said:
Noooo no no no. The last few Mario games have succeeded in finally actually adding some challenge to the formula, we don't need to start sending the message that we don't want that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it would break 3D World. But I mean for example something that would only unlock after getting the stamp/pole/stars trio.
Kinda like a "reward" for you to screw around at will after properly beating the level. I wouldn't mind that
 
Memino said:
I think the green stars and stamps are the perfect marker for how much you explored each level, so the timer doesn't matter anyway.
Click to expand...

Which is why I don't think you need it at all. I understand I am in the minority though I have never once cared about my "time" in any game genre outside of racers.
 
MYE said:
Yeah, it would break 3D World. But I mean for example something that would only unlock after getting the stamp/pole/stars trio.
Kinda like a "reward" for you to screw around at will after properly beating the level. I wouldn't mind that
Click to expand...

After getting the stars and the stamp in a level, there is no need to explore it further. Getting the gold flagpole isn't really affected by the timer as it requires no exploration.
 
BruceLeeRoy said:
I should have noted this as well. There are several levels that are perfection with the timer but they seem to be a little more linear than some of the open areas.
Click to expand...

It's basically SMB3 in 3D--tight, brief and very creative levels, with a timer.

Which I have no problems with as SMB3 is my favorite Mario game ever.
 
Kai Dracon said:
The timer in Majora's Mask is literally the point of the game. This shows how people who want to play a game a specific way may see its design as bad, if it isn't designed to be played the way they want to play it.
Click to expand...

I'm aware that it is, but it still ruins the game for me.
 
Vane_MagicCity said:
After getting the stars and the stamp in a level, there is no need to explore it further. Getting the gold flagpole isn't really affected by the timer as it requires no exploration.
Click to expand...

You underestimate (my) love for looking at levels and admiring shit with no real purpose but to amuse myself :P
I knew every texture and 3D model on OOT back in the day.
 
The handful of stages that rely on the timer counting down should keep it, of course-- those were fun. For the rest of the stages, the timer could count up. People wouldn't have to feel rushed and could still do speed runs or compete for time.
 
I really like it. Thought I would hate it ("OMG timer on this day and age, WTF!! I I want to explore since everything looks so lovely!"); but it forced me to play like "the old days", when sometimes because of the rush to get to the end, you start playing more in a reactionary way rather than methodical. So, you end doing sometimes some really crazy things that you later try to replicate and can't. Really cool.

Most stages have a ton of clocks through it, so you end adding more time anyway.
 
MYE said:
Yeah, it would break 3D World. But I mean for example something that would only unlock after getting the stamp/pole/stars trio.
Kinda like a "reward" for you to screw around at will after properly beating the level. I wouldn't mind that
Click to expand...

Ahh, that makes sense then.
 
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