-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Is the current industry landscape preventing Halo from a true renaissance?
- Thread starter WJD
- Start date
Lmao, I remember trying to make that point on Bungie.net when the Reach Beta was out but no one would admit it. It seems like people only remember the good.
343 has to determine that. I'm no game designer. I can throw some ideas out there but they'd probably be too big to implement or wouldn't actually work from a gameplay perspective. Bring a new dynamic to multiplayer matches. Certainly switch up the campaign, bring exploration to the forefront, maybe some RPG elements. Plus, I'm on my phone so typing up long stuff is a pain, especially when my wife is hounding me that its time to eat, lol.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
DOWN
Banned
After waiting since the release of Reach for the ship to be righted, I'm too exhausted to care about the future of the franchise. Especially with the recent decisions that 343 made that in my opinion further degraded the franchise's worth.
I will more than likely play Halo 5, but I have no delusions that it'll be a return to greatness for Halo.
Instead, I'm far more interested to dive into a new universe that Bungie is creating with Destiny.
I will more than likely play Halo 5, but I have no delusions that it'll be a return to greatness for Halo.
Instead, I'm far more interested to dive into a new universe that Bungie is creating with Destiny.
No game has emulated the feeling of picking up your buddies on your team with the flag in a warthog on fire and then scoring having run over enemies all while dodging rockets and grenades. All while screaming at each other through the mics since everyone has one back in the day.
Standby sucked though.
The Librarian
Banned
Then to me it sounds like you want change for the sake of change, which isn't a good thing. There's a difference between evolving the gameplay and introducing elements from other franchises, though the two don't necessarily have to be opposed.
The folks at 343i are awesome, fantastic people. I'm definitely interested in what they're cooking up.
- Add Local Search again
- Add Fightfight
- Add Brutes
- Add Plasma Rifle
- Get rid of Ordnance
- Get rid of custom loadouts
- Get rid of Specializations
- Get rid of default sprint
- Get rid of abilities
- Get rid of QTES
- Make bigger levels again
- Make Grunts funny again
- Make elites speak English again
- Bring back easter eggs
- Bring Martin O'Donnell and Michael Salvatori for the OST
- Make Forge as good as Reach
Don't 'fix' what isn't broke or bite the hand that feeds you. Halo 4 shat on its fanbase. If you want to make changes to the series do them in a way that doesn't ruin the core gameplay or experience as tough as that may sound.
If you want Armour abilities only make it a choice between Jetpack and Sprint (one or the other), everything else breaks the game.
Ol No Bones
Banned
They just need to remember that grenade gun and melee combo is the core. Lets get back to the 30 seconds of fun approach. There is no need for 3 or 4 guns that serve the same purpose with little quirks to differentiate them. They have to get back to basics. Halo 4 multiplayer was a step down. They have to know that. I hope they know that.
TheRealTalker
Banned
it is not only Halo that has fallen into this crevice of COD-like cloning
sadly a lot of MP based shooters have followed suit
and the devs aren't any the wiser
sadly a lot of MP based shooters have followed suit
and the devs aren't any the wiser
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
Just having Halo on dedicated servers will be good for me.
The Xbox needs to have Halo on it and the sooner the better.
The Xbox needs to have Halo on it and the sooner the better.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
Or having the absolute perfect CTF plan with a buddy in 2v2 and executing it exactly as planned. My bro and I had some amazing Lockout tactics.
Halo 1-3 were so good because nothing truly random could happen. You always knew which weapons were in play, and everyone shared the same abilities. Fuck ordinance drops and loadouts and shit.
CountAntonius
Member
I think the people up top want CoD numbers which they would never reach even with a perfect pure Halo game so they try to expand the audience and ruin the franchise while doing so. Microsoft would have to be OK with smaller sales numbers for a true Halo to ever be made again.
Ol No Bones
Banned
COD has really messed up modern shooters. Halo is the hardest fall since the yearly COD plague hit. It makes me really sad to think about it.
Ol No Bones
Banned
I disagree. If halo can't get back to the basics than its just a matter of time till it is completely irrelevant. People long for a solid arena shooter with halo pacing and a proper ranking system. Halo 4 wasn't a bad game but it wasn't halo.
NullPointer
Member
I'd imagine the current industry landscape has created a hunger for games that aren't just trying to clone the hits.
What 343 needs to do is have a very strong vision focused on Halo's unique brand of gameplay, and drive that vision forward. Drop any thought for progression systems and COD-isms and unlocks and XP and backpats and make an unabashed Halo game, and the best damn unabashed Halo that can be made.
What 343 needs to do is have a very strong vision focused on Halo's unique brand of gameplay, and drive that vision forward. Drop any thought for progression systems and COD-isms and unlocks and XP and backpats and make an unabashed Halo game, and the best damn unabashed Halo that can be made.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Yes. There would be so many people that would love this. It would play to halo's strengths. Let Halo be Halo.
CountAntonius
Member
How many people though? The 5-8 Million halo's tend to bring in or the 25million+ CoD games bring in?
I think the problem was CoD sales blew everything out of the water and made everyone chase those unrealistic numbers by trying desperately to make changes to widen the games appeal.
Let it. People will play what they want to play. Instead of going for a half assed Battle Royale type thing with Infinity Slayer, go the whole hog and make it a fully realized mode. Then have your classic Deathmatch which is what the base game is balanced around and shore up the matchmaking accuracy (which they seem to be doing) and game making capability.
The Librarian
Banned
I want a Halo game with less weapons, less vehicles (read into this and you'll know which new vehicle I'm singling out), no perks, no armor abilities, no silly easy-to-get medals, proper ranked matches, all classic Halo gametypes, and actual Halo sound effects.
Basically, I want everything from Halo 4 tossed in the garbage. Except for maybe Oddball throwing. That's the one good idea 343 had.
Basically, I want everything from Halo 4 tossed in the garbage. Except for maybe Oddball throwing. That's the one good idea 343 had.
the funny thing about halo fans clamoring for destiny is that destiny seems to shit all over the classic halo formula. people complained about bloom? now you'll get ADS. people disliked the halo 4 grind to unlock better loadouts, now your loadouts have to truly be grinded via loot-hunt campaign. infinity slayer? how about space magic.
destiny (mp) is one HUUUUGE question mark on quality for me - and should be for any halo fan. i love bungie, i dont love what i've heard and seen so far (again, mp).
destiny (mp) is one HUUUUGE question mark on quality for me - and should be for any halo fan. i love bungie, i dont love what i've heard and seen so far (again, mp).
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
This this this. Seriously. Winning a match knowing everyone battled on equal grounds was SO MUCH more rewarding than the "progression" garbage.
I didn't like Oddball throwing though.
Nice thread; good read.
I feel like the industry is somewhat to blame, seeing as this isn't the only game where half of it is in the menus before the game actually begins. I also feel like a bit of it lays on 343i and not bucking those trends. For future games in the series, especially now that the adoption rate for Ghosts from BO2 seems to have declined from previous CoD titles, I think the 343i should notice that the winds are changing. They should be able to see that Halo 4's population is a life line and the next title shouldn't continue along the same path.
As a side note, Halo 4 is the first current Halo title where I've put it away for more than a few months. I haven't touched it since December and before that I didn't play it from March to June of last year.
To the first part, the reviewers played the game for a week before everyone else. The reviewer/publisher cycle is definitely at play here.
I disagree with the second part. The music was very compressed in order to fit on the disc(on its own, it sounds very good). The audio is poorly mixed at times, in particular whenever the player is in a human vehicle. The weapon sounds are a mixed bag for me also. The human weapons all sound unique and like they match the weapon being used(although for some reason I'm not a huge fan of the Shotgun or the Sniper). Covenant weapons sound very metallic, even though they are supposed to be Plasma based. And this is more of a design issue, but the Forerunner weapon sounds don't match the damage that they do. What I mean by that is that when I fire a Light Rifle shot, it should sound moderately powerful, when it sounds pretty weak.
I feel like the industry is somewhat to blame, seeing as this isn't the only game where half of it is in the menus before the game actually begins. I also feel like a bit of it lays on 343i and not bucking those trends. For future games in the series, especially now that the adoption rate for Ghosts from BO2 seems to have declined from previous CoD titles, I think the 343i should notice that the winds are changing. They should be able to see that Halo 4's population is a life line and the next title shouldn't continue along the same path.
As a side note, Halo 4 is the first current Halo title where I've put it away for more than a few months. I haven't touched it since December and before that I didn't play it from March to June of last year.
To the first part, the reviewers played the game for a week before everyone else. The reviewer/publisher cycle is definitely at play here.
I disagree with the second part. The music was very compressed in order to fit on the disc(on its own, it sounds very good). The audio is poorly mixed at times, in particular whenever the player is in a human vehicle. The weapon sounds are a mixed bag for me also. The human weapons all sound unique and like they match the weapon being used(although for some reason I'm not a huge fan of the Shotgun or the Sniper). Covenant weapons sound very metallic, even though they are supposed to be Plasma based. And this is more of a design issue, but the Forerunner weapon sounds don't match the damage that they do. What I mean by that is that when I fire a Light Rifle shot, it should sound moderately powerful, when it sounds pretty weak.
old manatee
Banned
Halo is the Rolling Stones. It will never be great again, but it doesn't really have anything to prove so fuck it, might as well make some money.
NullPointer
Member
Hey now!And that means no jetpacks
Halo has (mostly) always had jetpacks, as you know very well, in the fiction and stuff, and they always looked cool. Because jetpacks are cool, when they're not being full on awesome.
But even as a card carrying member of the Halo Jetpack Defense Force I'd be just fine with excluding them from competitive multiplayer ...
... because you old school Halogaffers never figured how to use or overcome or design maps for them properly ;p
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
Neither did Bungie or 343.
block tower
Member
i stopped with Halo series after Halo 3 and ODST. the Halo trilogy was satisfying enough for me. Halo Reach and Halo 4 really strayed too far away from the Halo formula for my liking. Im wondering now if we will ever see true arena shooters and tactical shooters make a return? im not very interested in the casual mechanics of CoD, BF4, and TitanFall. i want the quakes/unreal tournie style arena shooters again, along with SOCOM and Rainbow Six style tactical shooters to make a comeback.
the reason is they got tired of it and felt like they wanted to do something else. After that many games, I don't blame them. but they didn't think Reach was shit, or they wouldn't have put it out.
Jetpacks inhibited good map design.
Jetpacks break all maps. What's the point in getting high ground if someone can just jet up to you?
This is great and everything, but even if they return to the proper gameplay mechanics, they've already trashed the narrative with Halo 4 and Spartan Ops.
I mean come on, Dr. Halsey is now literally a damn one-armed bandit. smh...
But yes... the multiplayer can be saved.
To that point, I really hope the rumors of H2 anniversary with a 1:1 multiplayer mode are true. That would be glorious.
Halo is good stuff
It serves as a nice mashup between large scale battles like battlefield and the small like COD
I do wish it went back to halo 2 days but i don't mind new changes as long as it works
Halo4 never had those halo2 moments for me in multiplayer
But i mostly played BTB
It serves as a nice mashup between large scale battles like battlefield and the small like COD
I do wish it went back to halo 2 days but i don't mind new changes as long as it works
Halo4 never had those halo2 moments for me in multiplayer
But i mostly played BTB
CountAntonius
Member
I wonder how a CS:GO approach would work for a MP only halo game.
all but like 3 maps were "btb" style in H4. Meaning asymmetrical with a bunch of crap and tunnels in the middle.
NullPointer
Member
The advantages are still there, but hey, regardless, an old-school Halo staple is equality of players at spawn, and that should be something that the next Halo brings back to the table.
Just let me have my jetpacks in campaign and co-op scenarios (where appropriate) and I'd be just as happy.
Removing sprint and ADS will probably involve more gnashing of teeth anyway, but a solid base speed with smooth controls and a focus on shorter ranged weaponry would do wonders.
I had a lot of fun with my time with Reach (my favorite shooter of last gen) and Halo 4, but I think the hardcore fanbase does have the answers when it comes to providing the game's competitive legs. Whether it can go toe to toe with the other big shooters is another matter - but it can maintain a solid audience over the long haul if that competitive audience is nurtured. I honestly have no idea how large that audience would be though.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I don't play console shooters online, and I barely play any shooters online at all, so I'm always in these sorts of games for the campaign. Naturally I wait until they're cheap before I bother picking them up as a result. TBH, I've never felt like any of the ones after CE were anything more than servicable. I haven't played CE in a long time so I might not even like that anymore. I feel really out of touch when people talk about how great the gameplay / AI is and stuff. I enjoyed Halo 4 more than I did 3 / ODST / Reach, although the impressions I get from GAF make me feel like an insane person for saying that.
Define soon pls. Loosely if necessary.
Excellent post.
Just because something is common doesn't make it good. You don't just add a mechanic like ADS just because. Besides, I love not having to aim down sights. Keeps the game flowing better.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
A bit off topic. I fired up console Bf4 so that I could play with a friend and right I got reminded why I find console shooter's popularity so baffling. I've been gaming since the early 80s on consoles/PC and I consider myself a pretty good fps player. How in the world do people play COD/Halo on a god damn gamepad?? LOL It feels so complex, and inaccurate. I still can't believe how big these games are on console.
back on topic, this is a phase! Remember when every game was trying to be like Mario? Street Fighter? Wow? Dota? Guitar Hero? COD?
A game will come out of nowhere and it will change the entire gaming landscape and devs can get back to their senses.
back on topic, this is a phase! Remember when every game was trying to be like Mario? Street Fighter? Wow? Dota? Guitar Hero? COD?
A game will come out of nowhere and it will change the entire gaming landscape and devs can get back to their senses.
The Librarian
Banned
You and I are through.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Ok except Halo 4 sheen wore off quick and it has become the most despised Halo game yet and for good reason IMO. Trying to make it like COD isn't going to sell Halo its just gonna kill any fans of actual Halo. I talked to some old Halo 2 and 3 buddies not too long ago and I think there are a ton of people longing for Halo style game play. It could be a full blown Halo revival if done right. A strong loyal multiplayer community to sell DLC and gun skins to would be great too. They have one more chance before the rapid decline I think.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I just threw in Halo 4 to refresh my memory. That narrow FOV, that featherweight feel, and the stiff sense of movement. I'm pretty sure that I'm never gonna play this game again.
Yeah, it certainly feels that way to me. I don't want to want change for the sake of change. But whenever I went back to play Halo 3 or Halo 2 (I hadn't gone back to it until that last day) it just feels...like that magic is gone that made me play those things for at least 5000 matches between the two. If they can keep the perks away, or keep the loadouts out, go for it. I don't care, just make it to where I want to keep coming back because each match feels fresh and exciting.
And wtf is up with individual match history for these games being gone? Or is that stuff still on Bungie.net?
HiredN00bs
Banned
Reach was Bungie's baby. It resembled Call of Duty in only the most superficial ways. In hindsight, it looks like it was a step towards Destiny.
If you didn't like Reach, that's one thing, but Reach and Halo 4 were completely different beasts.
If you didn't like Reach, that's one thing, but Reach and Halo 4 were completely different beasts.
Because Destiny is an ADS shooter, with sprint, insta-knife melee kill, loadouts and upgradeable weapons, and special powers for different classes. It's going to be rock, paper, scissors gameplay, no different than the myriad of clones on the market.
Sure it will have the Bungie level of detail and polish, but it's going to be Reach 2.0 in a sense, mixed with basically Call of Duty. There is a reason Halo fans played Halo over other games.
Halo is different, or WAS different. Matches weren't decided in the menus but on the battlefield. Your play depended on how well you knew the map and Joe good you and your team were. Everyone started equally.
CountAntonius
Member
I agree 100%. Companies needs to be content to have a profitable loyal fanbase and not always go for the biggest payday in the industry(which they wont get).
Similar threads
- Poll