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Is the no loading screens idea dead?
- Thread starter Kagey K
- Start date
Night.Ninja
Banned
Both consoles have the intention of no loading times to very minor, doesn't mean they won't be any.
All this it could be running from pc talk
I do find comical
All this it could be running from pc talk
I do find comical
Resenge
Member
LarknThe4th
Member
To further expand on this concept, would it be possible if a game settled on a visual level of late PS3 generation at 1080P
Could it use all of the other systems resources to simulate a world, with zero pop in, zero loading, tons of onscreen characters all with bespoke AI systems and fully destructive environments with advanced physics on every object in the game?
This is surely where the industry should be going cause that opens up actual new gameplay paradigms
BootsLoader
Banned
I think that was the developers problem. A nicely tuned game on N64 had almost no loading screens.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
If we made PS2-level games, we could just afford to use 5GB of RAM to hold the whole static data (and still have plenty left for the dynamic data). No loading outside of initial start up!
nkarafo
Member
That was very rare, and it was used for decompressing data. Otherwise loading isn't a thing with ROMs since there is instant access to every single byte.
Resenge
Member
Decompressing happens with all games not just cartridge games so I would still lump that in with loading screen rather than splitting hairs since this post is about loading screens. I am also not saying that it wasn't rare, I am just pointing out that even on a N64 cartridge there was loading screens/decompressing screens.
Perfect Dark had some long
World is not enough loading screen.
Some other small loading screens on N64
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TLZ
Banned
CuNi
Member
I still can't see it
At the 15.17 mark is Tsushima too.
I put the YT Video into spoiler tags as to not blow up this page with more videos.
It should be time stamped at 5:18 where the Bot begins to fly in the air, that's when the "masked loading screen" begins because the game knows "He entered the Level Change animation and cannot go back. He will load into that level no matter what so I better start loading it!!" and it's technically loading until I think roughly 5:26. Loading finishes once the level comes into view. The rest of the animation can be there for aesthetics, consistency or to finish loading data that's not immediately in view but I would consider the loading screen to be over once the "Landing in World" animation begins to play. I hope that clears it up for the Astrobots Video!
TLZ
Banned
I put the YT Video into spoiler tags as to not blow up this page with more videos.
It should be time stamped at 5:18 where the Bot begins to fly in the air, that's when the "masked loading screen" begins because the game knows "He entered the Level Change animation and cannot go back. He will load into that level no matter what so I better start loading it!!" and it's technically loading until I think roughly 5:26. Loading finishes once the level comes into view. The rest of the animation can be there for aesthetics, consistency or to finish loading data that's not immediately in view but I would consider the loading screen to be over once the "Landing in World" animation begins to play. I hope that clears it up for the Astrobots Video!
Finally lmao. Don't know how I kept missing that. It's very obvious too.
CuNi
Member
Finally lmao. Don't know how I kept missing that. It's very obvious too.
I'd say it's obvious once you keep looking for it. Ingame loading screens have been really subtle and non game breaking of done correctly and if all goes well, you won't even notice them! I honestly don't mind having those as they sometimes add to the actual perceived "reality" in those games! Imagine having a loading elevator where you go to the 90th floor and it loads in 2 seconds.. I'd feel weird tbh haha.
Lethal01
Member
If the question is will there be games with not loading then no the dream isn't dead and I'm sure there will be games that push it to the limit with no loading while going through the campaign.
What exactly would be your qualifications for the dream to be real? for there to be no game with any loading at all? where do you draw the line?
newtypepilot
Member
anothertech
Member
The loading screen is an illusion. You see what they want you to see. They're actually checking your bank accounts and credit card limits during that time
the_master
Member
Yeah, loading screens are great, that's why everyone is expecting them to disappear
xrnzaaas
Member
Dualsense moments.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
Ratchet and Clank loaded entire maps/worlds with complex physics, animations and huge draw distances in 2 seconds. Astro Bot appeared to load a comparatively small map in 7 seconds.
Why is this thread a thing? If R&C can do the aforementioned then it shows that it is possible. If it is possible then the Astro Bot scenario is either poor optimization or it's artistic license. At what point do you draw the line? If a next gen game has an elevator in it, and you're traveling from the 1st to 52nd floor and it doesn't happen in 0.1 seconds, does that mean that loading screens are dead? NO! Traveling from the 1st to 52nd floor shouldn't take 0.1 seconds, it should take a substantially longer amount of time.
We have seen PS5 load entire levels in 2 seconds. That means it can be done. That means that this thread serves no purpose but to spread FUD.
Why is this thread a thing? If R&C can do the aforementioned then it shows that it is possible. If it is possible then the Astro Bot scenario is either poor optimization or it's artistic license. At what point do you draw the line? If a next gen game has an elevator in it, and you're traveling from the 1st to 52nd floor and it doesn't happen in 0.1 seconds, does that mean that loading screens are dead? NO! Traveling from the 1st to 52nd floor shouldn't take 0.1 seconds, it should take a substantially longer amount of time.
We have seen PS5 load entire levels in 2 seconds. That means it can be done. That means that this thread serves no purpose but to spread FUD.
BootsLoader
Banned
My thoughts exactly. As I said with Nintendo 64, the loading screens depends on the developers. If they are talented enough and experienced to fine tune the game, and if they actually care about loading screens at all. Look at ND and their games for example, or the Zelda games on Nintendo 64.
Dontero
Banned
In witcher 3 you can go from Velen Nilfgard camp to north of novigrad without single loading.
X4 released years ago and you can transition from world to world just like in new Ratchet.
Game without loadings are present since 80s.
In other worlds, nothing will change. Some will have it some won't.
X4 released years ago and you can transition from world to world just like in new Ratchet.
Game without loadings are present since 80s.
In other worlds, nothing will change. Some will have it some won't.
Nickolaidas
Member
Let's try to unpack a few things here.
Ignoring the trolling from
CptPusheen
, if a stage transition really *DOES* takes 7 seconds, it immediately invalidates EVERYTHING Cerny said about the PS5 having such fast data loading capabilities that the PS5 could load and disload assets while the player was rotating the camera. The whole point is to remove loading screens and to make entire stages load in 1-3 seconds. Which Ratchet and Clank prove it *does* happen.Now, we have two 'laoding screen' lookalikes so far on the PS5. The UE5 demo (where the heroine moves through a tight crack in the cave) and the astrobot stage transition.
We already had Epic confirm that the moving through the crack was not a loading screen, but it was made in order for the viewers to appreciate the texture detail and the effects.
So it is quite possible to guess that the stage transition was purposefully long in order for the player to experience specific vibrations in the controller in relation to what was happening on screen.
I wouldn't lose sleep over it, personally.
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BlueXImpulse
Banned
Clever RAM management. Probably took a colossal amount of effort and time. Guess what? Next gen they won't need to spend time and resource on doing this kind of shit. That's a generational leap in itself. Not to mention a game like GoT2 would be way more expansive as a result.
TheAssist
Member
I still wonder how TloU2 did it. The initial load time is long but after that the loading screens are super short and soetimes after dying several times at the same spot it takes you back instantly. What did they do to achieve that kind of loading times on a PS4pro with the stock HDD.
Usually if you die in a game with that graphics caliber you wait like a minute in a loading screen.
so clearly its about software optimization. Sure this only works in TloU because you spawn near your death spot, but thats what most loading times are.
Give it some time and devs will have figured out loading with SSD's.
Usually if you die in a game with that graphics caliber you wait like a minute in a loading screen.
so clearly its about software optimization. Sure this only works in TloU because you spawn near your death spot, but thats what most loading times are.
Give it some time and devs will have figured out loading with SSD's.
YORHA SINNER
Neo Member
Why would it be? We already have games with no virtual loading, like GoW. Sure, the "no" part is misleading, but "virtually" is the key term. It's gonna be hidden from us through transition animations or slowed movement or whatever. Take the showest base speed of next-gen which is XSX's 2.4gb/s, that fills the RAM in around 5 seconds. Most games probably don't even need to fill the whole RAM to load. That's why I think the speed advantage of PS5 doesn't mean load times on it will be always better. Imagine a game's fast travel requires only 3gb, the loading will be as fast on both consoles.
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YORHA SINNER
Neo Member
Doing basic maths with the base 2.4gb/s of XSX, and the fact that you have to fill RAM to load, it won't be more than 5 seconds on the worst case scenario. That is even without compression.
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bumleforce
Member
yes. loading screens will never go away but they will just get shorter thanks to the ssd
YORHA SINNER
Neo Member
Don't know about TLOU2 but TLOU on PS3 had no loading after the initial one.
RaySoft
Member
Yes, they could have easily masked that loading with a bit more dev time by starting loading the level in the background as soon as you enter that room.
But this demo/game is made to show off the controller and not the loading i guess.
ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
I'm ok with loading times below 30 seconds. Below 15 would be awesome. But op is right, they sold it like it will never happen again, like they told that all ps3 games will be 1080p, so yeah that's kinda annoying.
SoraNoKuni
Member
I am pretty confident they didn't actually send a ps5 to Geoff but only the controller and a way to run the game on his PC.
So, no.
So, no.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
Whether they gave him the devkit or not it doesn't matter.
The above happened in 2 seconds.
cerealbuster
Member
But that doesn't make sense at all, they could just do 1.5 second transitions. Claiming it's a 6-8 sec. Transition because the dev thought that would show the transition better is complete nonesense. No player would be like "Oh look all those flashy effects mean he is really transitioning". If they could do loadtimes much less than that, they could just make a door that opens in 1.5 second and be done with it. Nothing changed, the flashy effects etc. are not there to show a transition, they are there to mask loading times.
Also, the rc example really doesn't hold,because it felt like a techdemo. I am pretty sure that the whole sliding on rails, will be like one or two scripted sequences. And most of this dimensional rift thing will be how we saw in the gameplay, the same as in bioshock infinite.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Pretty disappointing in this, I hope they deliver more on that side than the ps4 ever did.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Reindeer
Member
I remember how so many users on GAF were trying to convince others that PS5 will have no loading lol. The worst part is all these comments from devs that kept saying how loading screens would just go away. People always fall for these things at the beginning of every new console generation. PS5's SSD is only on DDR2 level and how people thought it was gonna make loading screens completely disappear still blows my mind.
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kingpotato
Ask me about my Stream Deck
Games will have to be built with the architecture in mind and likely have to use creative solutions to ensure there are NEVER load screens. Some games effectively have no loading screens today, like God of War and last of us 2 (after an initial 20 seconds). So the answer is, it depends. I see lots of lower budget and indie games still having loading, albeit faster.
YORHA SINNER
Neo Member
PS2, Emotion Engine and faster data transfer than PCs: still outpowered by Xbox and GC and couldn't play some games
PS3, Cell Processor: still outperformed by X360
PS4, Don't know what the secret sauce was supposed to but at least it outperformed XB1
Pro, 8tflops and 4K gaming, doesn't even reach it. Eventually outperformed by X1X
Is the SSD another one of those narrative?
Gotta be honest Sony aren't the only ones with these marketing narratives but holy shit are they so aggressive with it, you'd think they have some alien technology powering their consoles but it ends up litterally just another console or even inferior in some ways.
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BootsLoader
Banned
Ps3 outperformed by 360? When?
YORHA SINNER
Neo Member
On multiplats. A lot of games ran horribly on PS3 and developing for it was a nightmare.
Knitted Knight
Banned
After playing Ghost of Tsushima for a good while now with fast travel speeds of 3-5 seconds on an HDD pushing those graphics, in an open world game I think bookmarking this thread is a no brainer for that glorious bump. Obviously if you don't own the game you won't come to that conclusion - and only expect DF to highlight it to you or else you would never know.
It's clearly up to the engine (and by extension - the developer). But considering all that has gone into the PS5 I/O + the SSD you would have to have a really poorly optimized engine to not see a massive improvement across the board OR whatever you interpret as a loading transition is merely there by choice, not the result of a tech constraint.
It's clearly up to the engine (and by extension - the developer). But considering all that has gone into the PS5 I/O + the SSD you would have to have a really poorly optimized engine to not see a massive improvement across the board OR whatever you interpret as a loading transition is merely there by choice, not the result of a tech constraint.
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Reindeer
Member
Only in like 99% of the games.
DragoonWalker
Member
If there are be less load times, great! Otherwise, what'st the fuss? So many other improvement in games I'd rather have than less load times. This is only a talking point because we haven't gotten to play the games. So we cling on to the thin dribble of information to discuss. Once we play the games, this will be the last thing on our minds.
Think about it this way: N64 had no load times. PS2 had plenty. But who in their right mind, looking back, would dwell on worsened load times over all other improvements the generational leap brought? But that was a different time. Thanks to diminishing returns, the visual leap is so underwhelming thus far, people (and Sony itself) has chose to focus on "improved load times" as something worth drooling over.
Think about it this way: N64 had no load times. PS2 had plenty. But who in their right mind, looking back, would dwell on worsened load times over all other improvements the generational leap brought? But that was a different time. Thanks to diminishing returns, the visual leap is so underwhelming thus far, people (and Sony itself) has chose to focus on "improved load times" as something worth drooling over.
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