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is the random encounter system in jrpgs more enjoyable?
- Thread starter CentroXer
- Start date
Nonsense. Just because combat is a large part of RPGs doesn't mean the game should constantly throwing you into random encounters. It's up to the game designers to make it so that combat is enjoyable and the player actively seeks it out. RPG combat should be fun, not unavoidable drudgery. When playing RPGs without random encounters, I will get into combat because I need money, items, experience or simply because the battle system is a lot of fun. I love Skies of Arcadia for its neat cast and wonderful sense of exploration. On the other hand, the combat is dull and the random encounters are nothing short of enraging. When I first bought it for the Dreamcast, I never completed the game because of the awful random encounters. When they released Legends for the GameCube I was excited because everyone said that the random encounters were "much better". Bullshit. It's like getting your ass kicked by a group of 10 people instead of 12; less of a beating, but you're still going to be in pain the next day.
IAmRandom31
Banned
I think they allow for more battles in a given time period as usually you have to get the enemies to respawn when you can see them all the time. But other then.that not much advantage to them these days.
They're the reason I can't get into Pokemon games anymore and had a hard time enjoying Dragon Quest 4 (or 5?). I've really started gaming with the N64 though, so I'm used to "WHSIWYG" games.
Looking at them from an abstract mechanical POV, they allow to emulate the danger of being spotted and being dragged into fights while in a hostile environment. And all that without having to waste computing power on managing enemies in the game's environment before the encounter happens. They can be generated for each encounter and movement patterns etc. largely don't have to be implemented. That's a terrific way to simulate all that on low powered hardware.
They come at the cost of possibly being obnoxious though, espescially when you have to backtrack in earlier environments. Even more so, when the fights are not demanding anymore, I can't stand being randomly torn out of my exploration of the map. Having to watch superfluous and repetitive combat animation before finishing the fight makes it worse.
Therefore I consider them an obsolete mechanic, which can be replaced with something better on today's hardware. Even if you wanted to preserve the randomization, there are more elegant ways to implement it. I imagine undefined enemy shapes moving about in the environment (e.g. rustling grass in Pokemon) which act according to a general encounter level of the area, once the player gets into their range. Below player level: ignore the player, equal attack if hostile - difficult to avoid, higher: attack - very difficult to avoid. In other words: a combination of game mechanics we've seen in other games already. The enemy type could still be randomly determined upon the actual encounter.
I hardly bother with random encounter games anymore, unless I find them really captivating. The last game where I didn't mind the random encounters was Infinite Space (an absolute and overlooked gem, if one could get into it :3 ).
Looking at them from an abstract mechanical POV, they allow to emulate the danger of being spotted and being dragged into fights while in a hostile environment. And all that without having to waste computing power on managing enemies in the game's environment before the encounter happens. They can be generated for each encounter and movement patterns etc. largely don't have to be implemented. That's a terrific way to simulate all that on low powered hardware.
They come at the cost of possibly being obnoxious though, espescially when you have to backtrack in earlier environments. Even more so, when the fights are not demanding anymore, I can't stand being randomly torn out of my exploration of the map. Having to watch superfluous and repetitive combat animation before finishing the fight makes it worse.
Therefore I consider them an obsolete mechanic, which can be replaced with something better on today's hardware. Even if you wanted to preserve the randomization, there are more elegant ways to implement it. I imagine undefined enemy shapes moving about in the environment (e.g. rustling grass in Pokemon) which act according to a general encounter level of the area, once the player gets into their range. Below player level: ignore the player, equal attack if hostile - difficult to avoid, higher: attack - very difficult to avoid. In other words: a combination of game mechanics we've seen in other games already. The enemy type could still be randomly determined upon the actual encounter.
I hardly bother with random encounter games anymore, unless I find them really captivating. The last game where I didn't mind the random encounters was Infinite Space (an absolute and overlooked gem, if one could get into it :3 ).
SoulUnison
Banned
Earthbound was the best implementation of random battle in a JRPG ever, and basically *nobody's* ever copied it, for some reason.
Enemies are visible on the map, walking into an enemy initiates a battle, but, if your stats are far beyond that of the enemy, it just dies instantly and gives you its EXP without interrupting you or transitioning into the battle screen.
Brilliant, and yet nobody's picked up on using it.
What the hell?
Enemies are visible on the map, walking into an enemy initiates a battle, but, if your stats are far beyond that of the enemy, it just dies instantly and gives you its EXP without interrupting you or transitioning into the battle screen.
Brilliant, and yet nobody's picked up on using it.
What the hell?
If you can choose to walk into them or just avoid them, it's not a random encounter anymore.
Drilbit777
Member
Honestly after playing FFX for over 200+ hours I can say that its not that enjoyable. Random encounters can get very annoying if you're trying to move from point A to B especially if you don't have fast travel. Thankfully at least in FFX once you get no encounter armor its so much better since you don't have to deal with it.
I prefer seeing my enemies on the field and at least having the option to fight them instead of being forced into it at random times.
Also as much as I love Skies of Arcadia I really hate random encounters in that game especially when you're traveling on the airship. It becomes extremely aggravating trying to navigate to your next destination and getting into a battle every two seconds. It becomes worse when you're trying to get through the dungeons and find your way out.
I prefer seeing my enemies on the field and at least having the option to fight them instead of being forced into it at random times.
Also as much as I love Skies of Arcadia I really hate random encounters in that game especially when you're traveling on the airship. It becomes extremely aggravating trying to navigate to your next destination and getting into a battle every two seconds. It becomes worse when you're trying to get through the dungeons and find your way out.
neotokyo360
Member
I hate random encounter system.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
I can't stand random encounters anymore right now. If an RPG got them, I don't play it or get bored really fast. There's somehow a middle-way solution like the one adopted by Lightning Returns & Kingdom Hearts, but I still prefer having monsters always on screen so that I can plan my movements carefully.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
No.
M°°nblade
Banned
No, because they take away comfort and feel like ticking time bombs.
Random encounters were invented to spare the limited RAM that was available on early consoles. No resources had to be spend on animated enemy sprites and behavior. This is also why you only saw the main characters and no party members.
Later on, frequent random encounters were also used to artificially prolong the length of a game (looking at you, pokemon).
Random encounters were invented to spare the limited RAM that was available on early consoles. No resources had to be spend on animated enemy sprites and behavior. This is also why you only saw the main characters and no party members.
Later on, frequent random encounters were also used to artificially prolong the length of a game (looking at you, pokemon).
Death Metalist
Member
Nope. One of the main reasons why I hate JRPG's.
Random encounters were the CRPG translation of the random monster tables found in early pen and paper RPGs. The reason why they've been popular is because they're easy to implement and because they're a simple way to balance difficulty. In some RPGs, it can be easy to get stuck in a boss fight that you're not capable of handling. If you take more time to gain levels in random encounters, then you'd have a better chance at those boss fights.M°°nblade;145697626 said:
CRPGs have largely moved away from this element of game design because they've come up with better ideas. I'm playing Shadowrun Dragonfall right now, and not only are there no random encounters, but there are no levels and experience is gained by completing objectives. There is little benefit in the game to killing things. I think that it makes for a more refreshing experience.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
On the subject, Wild Arms series have an interesting implementation of random encounters. You get a little alert notice prior to the encounter, and pressing a button can skip it, each time consuming a coin. These coins can collected and refilled in the dungeon, simply by exploring them. Good stuff.
PetriP-TNT
Member
The Mother/Earthbound way is the best: random encounters with auto win against monsters you have outleveled
What's even the point of the random encounter then? By that point, the monsters should be giving out meager rewards, so why not just get rid of all insignificant random encounters?
daninthemix
Member
You should be able to choose how much you fight - if you want to explore without harrassment you should be able to; likewise you should be able to have some control over your character's state of level. Too many random encounters can make you OP, not to mention make you forget why it is you're exploring somewhere.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
What are you guys talking about? Earthbound has no random encounters. You can clearly see the enemy on the field and engage them manually.
SoulUnison
Banned
Because "auto-win" makes it sound like you go into the battle and straight to the rewards screen.
What happens is the enemy just poofs off the map and you get its EXP without even breaking your stride.
It's really sublime.
PetriP-TNT
Member
To have the cake and eat it too? The auto-win encounters take less then a second and they give the player a sense of satisfaction (and small rewards) which urges the player get higher level to auto-win more annoying fights. It's a way to artificially enhance gamification of the game.
Edit: Earthbound doesn't have random encounters, duh, I was talking about random encounters in general applied with EB way, my bad.
Without any sort of smart resrictions, and as long as you can get two encounters in pretty close proximity (making you let out an involuntary sigh in disapproval), I think the negatives kind of outweigh the positives a bit. At times it does feel lazy, with the unpredictability element not really being as satisfying in the end, and breeding frustration intentionally.
M°°nblade
Banned
Yes, that's also true.
Most games with visible encounters use enemy respawns and create grind spots/enemies to offer the player a chance to farm experience points in a short amount of time.
Ni no kuni handled that aspect pretty well.
pancakesandsex
Member
I prefer random encounters because it means the map design won't be compromised by having to accommodate the visible encounters. There is almost always a trade off in actual dungeon mechanics and layout when forced to leave room for roaming visible encounters.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I agree with this. I never liked it, and I was glad when it went away.
Hey, I just found an advantage of the random encounters: the balance of the game.
With random encounters, the developer can guess hw many steps (and thus fights) the player should approx. do between two bosses, and therefore guess his level. This way, the difficulty of said boss can be calibrated to offer an interesting and manageable challenge.
Lost odyssey did that right for example, DQ VIII wrong (imo).
Depends on the game, found it fitting for Final Fantasy 7-9 but I hated random encounters in the older Tales games.
I always found Pokémon does it best by clearly establishing what areas contain random encounters and offering encounter blocking items so you can choose to avoid them if you want. Bravely Default is pretty good about this, too!
As far as I remember only Mother 1 had random encounters, but the auto win feature has only been there since Earthbound/Mother 2 which has overworld enemies.
I always found Pokémon does it best by clearly establishing what areas contain random encounters and offering encounter blocking items so you can choose to avoid them if you want. Bravely Default is pretty good about this, too!
As far as I remember only Mother 1 had random encounters, but the auto win feature has only been there since Earthbound/Mother 2 which has overworld enemies.
It is worse than thar, imo. The problem for me with bravely default is all the slider options and instawin dlc went way too far in giving player control over the gameplay, to the point of making learning the systems pointless.
P4g's system where you chose the difficulty at the beginning and locked it in was much better at producing tension and challenge.
Glass Rebel
Member
They have their merits and as always it depends on the implementation. In games where you do a lot of fighting, I prefer random encounters because you don't have to worry about evading monsters on a map, the game (usually/hopefully) ends up being better balanced and most importantly the transition to the battle screen is just generally quicker.
BassForever
Member
It depends on the game and how they're executed though I'm not upset that random encounters are few and far between.
clay_ghost
Member
Blue dragon have something similar
TheSpoiler
Member
The rate of random encounters in FF games is actually on a lower side than a lot of RPGs.
Anyway, so long as there is a balance with those random encounters, I'm fine with it. Earthbound had that great streamrolling method, and Bravely Default allowed people to change the frequency. Most older games had Dispels and abilities to turn it off, which is something people should take into account since that stuff was usually cheap (provided it was offered early).
It depends on a few things for me. How long is the player forced to fight battles with npcs that are level appropriate for them to advance to the next level. Whether or not the npcs have a spike in toughness and strength rather than a smooth progression. How much fun is the battle system itself? Lastly, the speed of the battles themselves as well as the encounter rate. If all these things aren't in balance for me, then the game just gets tedious to play. For example, it takes quite a few battles for players to gain a level in legend of dragoon and legend of legaia. The difference for me is that legaia's battle system was more fun and had more depth personally than dragoon, therefore I finished legaia, and dropped lagoon somewhere either on the second or third disc.
Dr. Buni
Member
Random encounters are garbage. Let me see the monsters on the screen, so I can try to avoid battles, should I want to. Honestly nowadays I just avoid playing games with random encounters. I tried playing Golden Sun a couple weeks ago, but the random encounters coupled with the boring-ass characters quickly killed my interest in the game. Shame, because the (battle) themes were great and the battle system was competent.
Glass Rebel
Member
Why would you purposely ruin your experience with a perfectly fine game?
It's weird. I like random dungeon games, but much less random battles. For me, random dungeons allow me the excitement and tension of never knowing what's around the next corner in terms of loot and secrets. Especially when a game is a lot about leveling up, grinding weapons or monster pets or fusion abilities or whatever, it helps to know every time you enter the dungeon it'll be a different experience and keep things relatively fresh.
For enemies, it just seems tedious and annoying instead. Like if I'm hunting specific enemies, I hate having to troll through 13 battles of crap I don't want to fight just for a chance at getting the item I want to drop from the one enemy I actually wanted to face. I hate being forced into battles, because I like to regulate the amount of times I enter combat. Sometimes I am so leveled up that I don't want to keep entering battles, I like to reward myself by nice silent strolls through sections of dungeons. When I can see enemies on screen, I can avoid enemies most of the time. I can also select which specific enemies to engage in, if there was an item I wanted to steal or mission I needed to complete (kill 11/11 buffalo's).
Still, I can see the occasions when random battles seem to work better. Like in games about catching monsters, if you could just see each monster on the field there would reduce the challenge of the hunt. So there are certain designs where I still would prefer random battles. However, the way to avoid random battles and still have the hunt factor is by making it so that enemies on the field appear visibly but in random order. So you might enter an area once and see a certain type of rare enemy, but the next timeyou enter the area it'll be gone and there will just be a common enemy there.
For enemies, it just seems tedious and annoying instead. Like if I'm hunting specific enemies, I hate having to troll through 13 battles of crap I don't want to fight just for a chance at getting the item I want to drop from the one enemy I actually wanted to face. I hate being forced into battles, because I like to regulate the amount of times I enter combat. Sometimes I am so leveled up that I don't want to keep entering battles, I like to reward myself by nice silent strolls through sections of dungeons. When I can see enemies on screen, I can avoid enemies most of the time. I can also select which specific enemies to engage in, if there was an item I wanted to steal or mission I needed to complete (kill 11/11 buffalo's).
Still, I can see the occasions when random battles seem to work better. Like in games about catching monsters, if you could just see each monster on the field there would reduce the challenge of the hunt. So there are certain designs where I still would prefer random battles. However, the way to avoid random battles and still have the hunt factor is by making it so that enemies on the field appear visibly but in random order. So you might enter an area once and see a certain type of rare enemy, but the next timeyou enter the area it'll be gone and there will just be a common enemy there.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I like it once in a while. Makes dungeons a hell of a lot foreboding. Final Fantasy I is one of my favorite games 'cause it perfectly captures the sense of a dangerous adventure. Would never be the same without random battles IMO.
Or maybe I just like it because Uematsu was being Uematsu.
Or maybe I just like it because Uematsu was being Uematsu.