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is the random encounter system in jrpgs more enjoyable?

Jisgsaw said:
Hey, I just found an advantage of the random encounters: the balance of the game.
With random encounters, the developer can guess hw many steps (and thus fights) the player should approx. do between two bosses, and therefore guess his level. This way, the difficulty of said boss can be calibrated to offer an interesting and manageable challenge.

Lost odyssey did that right for example, DQ VIII wrong (imo).
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Problem is that about every jRPG with Random Encounters I played allowed you to flee the battle - and this is an option you'll likely use.


BibiMaghoo said:
This is a very divisive issue, but my position is this:

I wanted them to disappear. Until they did. Then I realised that making a combat optional inevitably results in avoiding encounters, be that once or twice, or all the time. This can be damaging to a games experience, because enemy avoidance in games where combat plays are large role is a failure in design. If you don't want to fight and spend time running away instead, the system has failed. Random encounters are better than the alternative, because the alternative results in making them avoidable.
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Then random encounters have failed too, as you can and most likely will flee from them.

I personally don't like them, although they're managable. It's really annoying if you want to go from Point A to Point B and it simply punishes exploration since trying to find everything in a dungeon means that you'll obviously have more encounters. Not to forget trying to find a special kind of enemies, like Metal Slimes. The worst thing, however, are situations where you had to flee while a timer was ticking while you still have random encounters.I had to do FFVI's floating continent twice as they threw too many of these at me.

Random Encounters are acceptable, but I always prefer other mehtods.
 
I don't mind it, but I feel there's a better alternative in having enemies on the map with an aggro range, giving you a certain level of choice as to whether you want to enter combat or try to avoid them.

Random encounters certainly doesn't put me off buying a game, the bulk of an JRPG is combat, so if you don't enjoy that I don't know why you'd be playing a JRPG, for the unique and multi-leveled stories and characters? lol
 
Myriadis said:
Then random encounters have failed too, as you can and most likely will flee from them.

I personally don't like them, although they're managable. It's really annoying if you want to go from Point A to Point B and it simply punishes exploration since trying to find everything in a dungeon means that you'll obviously have more encounters. Not to forget trying to find a special kind of enemies, like Metal Slimes. The worst thing, however, are situations where you had to flee while a timer was ticking while you still have random encounters.I had to do FFVI's floating continent twice as they threw too many of these at me.

Random Encounters are acceptable, but I always prefer other mehtods.
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Yeah, that is also possible, but I find it less likely to consistently occur because by that point you are already in the fight. It could take as long to beat it as to run away. I totally understand and share the frustration that occurs when you just want to get across the screen and get yanked into combat 3 times before that happens, but I have yet to come across a better alternative, because I don't think avoidable encounters are. A player will just fight less than they otherwise would. And yes, timed sections with random encounters is harsh indeed. Thankfully they are not widely used throughout any single game.
 
I prefer a system similar to Chrono Trigger's. You can still have rare enemies appear, but I'd rather have a choice.
 
Myriadis said:
Problem is that about every jRPG with Random Encounters I played allowed you to flee the battle - and this is an option you'll likely use.
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Well, I always see fleeing as the player actively saying he doesn't want to leveling up.
Not to mention fleeing usualy has a success rate, which becomes small with harder ennemies (you'd usually want to flee), and very succesfull for low level ennemies (you'd want to battle anyway, as you should kill them in a few seconds).

But that's actually why I mentioned LO: you only get random encounters till you have the intended level for the next boss, then they more or less stop.
 
I've grown to hate random encounters. They can still work if the game itself has mechanics that makes battles go quicker or alter the encounter rate (such as Bravely Default with it's encounter rate and difficulty slider and setting up automated attack patterns). I much prefer seeing them in an over-world and having the option of engaging or not.
 
I know the word random contradicts this but frequency was a huge issue for me. Getting attacked every 2 steps gets annoying quick. In areas where there some what spaced I really didn't mind them
 
I just get majorly annoyed everytime i encounter a random battle. Hell, i've never even finished a jrpg because i always end up in some boring dungeon with boring enemies appaearing out of nowhere.

I really prefer how Valkyrie Profile and Trails in the Sky does it. In trails you CAN get ambushed, but the chance for it to happen is soooo small.
 
Playing a bunch of games without random encounters and going back to some with well implemented random encounters (mainly the DQ/FF games) and I find random encounters much more fun.

Now, if you do something smart with the enemies on the field (see Persona 3/4, Mother 2, Romancing SaGa) it can add an interesting layer.

Honestly, a mix is really appealing. I replay Chrono Triger every year and the only thing that bugs me about it is that I know where all the battles are. I can't get caught off guard.

Inkvoterad said:
I really prefer how Valkyrie Profile and Trails in the Sky does it. In trails you CAN get ambushed, but the chance for it to happen is soooo small.
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See, Trails does something right by having the enemy surround you if you get ambushed. It's not just that the enemy goes first but that you are at a positioning disadvantage.

Trails FC also does something very wrong though.
What with the two most boring characters in the whole game being your only party for large chunks of the damn thing.
 
I don't mind them. Being able to see and avoid monsters on the map takes a great deal away from the experience. You aren't supposed to be able to just waltz through enemy territory, or wilderness without shit popping up out of nowhere.
 
I feel like random encounters were there because of the limitations of the system. They are annoying now when you are trying to get somewhere and they keep popping up.

In XII and XIII i can usually pick and choose my fights, i like that better.
 
It's annoying as fuck especially as I get older I started to really lose my patience when a game has random encounters. Even more annoying when you're trying to solve a puzzle or figuring out where to go and a Ruby Dragon decides to wipe out your whole party. Yeah, that's not cool.
 
Labombadog said:
It's annoying as fuck especially as I get older I started to really lose my patience when a game has random encounters. Even more annoying when you're trying to solve a puzzle or figuring out where to go and a Ruby Dragon decides to wipe out your whole party. Yeah, that's not cool.
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Oh yeah, these puzzle rooms should definitively be encounter free.
Just had the displeasent surprise to see that those in Tales of Heart F aren't.
 
ArkhamFantasy said:
I feel like random encounters were there because of the limitations of the system.
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This is such a stupid ass myth.

Random encounters exist in digitized RPGs because every VG-RPG is directly based on the core mechanics of dungeons and dragons or its other table top derivatives.

Plasma said:
I don't like it, makes me not want to explore the environment.
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Then maybe you should be playing an adventure game instead.
 
I think it depends on the frequency of the random encounters. Can become really annoying if you want to explore a certain area and get sucked into a battle every couple of seconds. So overall I think I prefer it when enemies are visible on the map and you have a chance to evade them or clear the area for some time.
 
I think Final Fantasy XII's approach to random encounters was the best. There are enemies that appear out of nowhere, but you still can easily avoid most of them and doing so doesnt detract from the exploration or how you immerse yourself in the world.
 
Nope. You can still make the world dangerous by having visible aggroable enemies around. Final Fantasy 11 has the best world in that sense to me. Such a awesome thing to be able to tip toe around mobs, knowing if they are sent, vision, true sight, or not aggro at all. It's a shame FFXIV seem not so risky with it's world. You can get away from any situation in that game making the world not as threatening.

Random encounter for threatening worlds kind of remind me of the whole discussion on not being able to aim while moving in Resident Evil to create tense situations. Both are highly annoying to me, not tense or whatever.
 
No chance. Random encounters is part of the reason I struggle to play the older FF's. The frequency in some of them is just ridiculous. I tried VI again the other year, and I just got sick of battles every 5 steps. If a game is going to do it, I think it should at least do what Bravely Default did, where you can completely control encounter rate. If you're overlevelled and sick of battles, you can just turn it off or down briefly, or if you're grinding just turn it up. Great improvement.

muteki said:
I don't mind them. Being able to see and avoid monsters on the map takes a great deal away from the experience. You aren't supposed to be able to just waltz through enemy territory, or wilderness without shit popping up out of nowhere.
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That's a poor ass excuse though. If you're attacking an enemy territory, you wouldn't just waltz in anyway, lol. You'd plan your attack, taking into account where they position people, which is least defended and go through there. Thus, if anything, enemys positioned on a map which you can avoid would be more realistic, with maybe an occasional random encounter if they were waiting for you.
 
I'll always love random battles. Sure, they can be done totally wrong (to the point you aren't even having fun playing), but RPGs without them just feel, to me, like they're permanently on Easy Mode.
 
Ploid 3.0 said:
Random encounter for threatening worlds kind of remind me of the whole discussion on not being able to aim while moving in Resident Evil to create tense situations. Both are highly annoying to me, not tense or whatever.
Click to expand...

Then you need to stop playing bad RPGs like FF. Play something like SMT (no, not fucking persona) to see how and why randomized encounters work in a proper RPG. They're there to add more variables to play while placing a check on powerleveling through supplies. In games that do random encounters right, like SMT or wizardry, you have to plan out your paths and base your movement decisions based on calculating risk to determine whether or not it's worth it to travel down that path to get the extra gold and treasure when you only have 5 health potions left instead of moving on. The element of risk vs reward adds variance of play between each game so that no one game plays out exactly the same way.

In games like FF which are balanced around 5 year olds being able to beat them it doesn't really matter because you get enough gold to max your supplies and make the entire purpose a pointless exercise in tedium because the proper context for the battles are gone.
 
I didn't mind them when I was younger. It's just the way things were. Now I don't like them at all, unless the game has a mechanic to work around them (like Bravely Default, which I'm guessing has already been mentioned in this thread).
 
I dislike random encounters for the most part. The system Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG and a few other RPGs use is so much better. It allows you to plan what to do and makes walking through the world more fun. Many games with random encounters fall into the trap of making them too common just to create illusion of difficulty. Breath of Fire 2 is the biggest offender I can recall now, since enemies in new areas tend to be strong and the encounter rate tends to be ridiculous.

I like random encounters in a few games though. Pokémon is the best example, since it adds to the mystery of what you're getting (rare Pokémon, shiny Pokémon) and because random encounters happen in very defined areas that you, for the most part, can avoid. Mega Man Battle Network does something similar, but since you don't gain EXP in battles and you can't escape battles (unless you waste chip space), killing random enemies isn't rewarding. It's only cool when out of the blue a boss Navi appears and you have the chance of getting a rare chip.
 
Jisgsaw said:
Hey, I just found an advantage of the random encounters: the balance of the game.
With random encounters, the developer can guess hw many steps (and thus fights) the player should approx. do between two bosses, and therefore guess his level. This way, the difficulty of said boss can be calibrated to offer an interesting and manageable challenge.

Lost odyssey did that right for example, DQ VIII wrong (imo).
Click to expand...
Games can already track your level at all times. For example, Final Fantasy VIII would level the enemies based on the PC levels.

muteki said:
I don't mind them. Being able to see and avoid monsters on the map takes a great deal away from the experience. You aren't supposed to be able to just waltz through enemy territory, or wilderness without shit popping up out of nowhere.
Click to expand...
Games with no random encounters can still do all of that. Just because there's no randomness doesn't mean that all your encounters are unpredictable. It just means that all the challenges are tailored to what a game designer feels appropriate at that time. Add in things like fog of war or enemies that move around, and there's just as much suspense as in the old days.

pa22word said:
This is such a stupid ass myth.

Random encounters exist in digitized RPGs because every VG-RPG is directly based on the core mechanics of dungeons and dragons or its other table top derivatives.
Click to expand...
It's not that stupid. While the early computer RPGs were based directly off of Dungeons and Dragons, CRPGs have largely strayed away from random encounters. The technology has improved, so you can fight enemies in the same game screen that you do your adventuring in. This isn't a modern invention either - it's been pretty common since before the Infinity Engine games.
 
pa22word said:
Then you need to stop playing bad RPGs like FF. Play something like SMT (no, not fucking persona) to see how and why randomized encounters work in a proper RPG. They're there to add more variables to play while placing a check on powerleveling through supplies. In games that do random encounters right, like SMT or wizardry, you have to plan out your paths and base your movement decisions based on calculating risk to determine whether or not it's worth it to travel down that path to get the extra gold and treasure when you only have 5 health potions left instead of moving on. The element of risk vs reward adds variance of play between each game so that no one game plays out exactly the same way.

In games like FF which are balanced around 5 year olds being able to beat them it doesn't really matter because you get enough gold to max your supplies and make the entire purpose a pointless exercise in tedium because the proper context for the battles are gone.
Click to expand...
Shin Megami Tensei IV doesn't even have random encounters, even they moved away from it because they realised it doesn't add anything.
 
I'm sort of ambivalent in this discussion.
On one hand, I don't mind random encounters at all. I've grown up with and still embrace this as a design choice, as it forces me to think carefully about how and where I go.
On the other hand, you can strategize a bit more when you know when and where encounters lurk.

I actually really like the Mog Clock system in FFXIII-2, since I think it does a decent job of melding the two, allowing you to get the upper hand if attentive, but also letting you make hasty retreats (save for some places
fuckin Academia 400AF
).
 
If not knowing what type of enemy you're about to encounter is the reason you like random encounters, then you're doing it wrong.

A better way to handle it is like in Persona games, you see shadows moving around in the dungeon and you only trigger battles if you get in direct contact with these shadows. That way you still have the mystery of not knowing the enemy type while avoiding randomly getting ambushed up the ass every now and then.
 
For me it just depends on what the frequency is. If almost every step you take results in a random battle, then no. In other games that have a lower frequency though you can sometimes cheese your way through areas if you can't, or simply don't want to fight on the way to your destination.
 
random battles are archaic. I'm playing FFX HD remaster and it's just painful. Doesn't help that I think this JRPG is pretty bad with a fanfiction-worthy story and some of the worst dialogues in a game.
 
4Tran said:
Games can already track your level at all times. For example, Final Fantasy VIII would level the enemies based on the PC levels.
Click to expand...

Knowing beforehands makes the planning of the bosses attack set (not just stats) far easier.
It also allows the eveloper to more or less define the pacing of their game, which in a lot of jRPG is a weak point.

But I see your point yeah.

Zafir said:
Shin Megami Tensei IV doesn't even have random encounters, even they moved away from it because they realised it doesn't add anything.
Click to expand...

And yet Atlus put random encounters back in their latest game.

Random encounter vs visible ennemies is a design decision, where the latter have a bit more advantages; that doesn't mean there aren't games (typically dungeon crawlers) where the former isn't more appropriate.
SMT4 got visible ennemies because it is a story focused game (well, sort of). Persona Q/EO got random encounters because it is a dungon crawler.
 
I personally prefer random encounters over enemies on the screen in games with a discreet battle mode (not action rpgs (of course)). Visible enemies break my immersion in an uncanny valley kind of way. It approaches trying to be literal representation to a point where the unrealistic aspects just make it less enjoyable.

Your line of sight is always magically better and enemies are slower or equal speed. Enemies rarely see you from off screen, and if they did, it'd just be a random encounter... Same if they were actually faster. Sooo you're a human or whatever race in a dark cave. The monsters in this area that call that place their home never notice the intruders first and many games let you sneak up on the enemies for an advantage. Always the adventuring MASTER. Pretty lame. At least with random encounters, it's a figurative representation of you traveling in hostile territory. Events like first attacks, and ambushes represent you getting the upper hand, or the enemy seeing you first. You can also add in skills\items that increase or decrease encounter rate, thus enhancing the representation. A bonus is that it removes the annoyance of enemies respawning (or not respawning). It's just cleaner to me.

Of course, I prefer text MUDS to graphical MMOs so yeah...
 
Jisgsaw said:
Knowing beforehands makes the planning of the bosses attack set (not just stats) far easier.
It also allows the eveloper to more or less define the pacing of their game, which in a lot of jRPG is a weak point.

But I see your point yeah.



And yet Atlus put random encounters back in their latest game.

Random encounter vs visible ennemies is a design decision, where the latter have a bit more advantages; that doesn't mean there aren't games (typically dungeon crawlers) where the former isn't more appropriate.
SMT4 got visible ennemies because it is a story focused game (well, sort of). Persona Q/EO got random encounters because it is a dungon crawler.
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Assuming you mean Etrian Odyssey as their latest game, I was on about Shin Megami Tensei only since the poster mentioned that series specifically benefitted from it. Etrian Odyssey hasn't had a history of change, unlike SMT, so it's no surprise that is happens to have the same system as it's predecessors.

Whether Etrian Odyssey/Persona Q benefits from it, I can't really say. Never tried Etrian Odyssey. In terms of Persona Q, if anything I find myself tired of the mobs by the end of the floor because it's always the same ones. People say random encounters add surprise, excitement and tension, but I disagree because the actual mobs aren't random(and if they were that would just add another level of tedium with some of SMT's mechanics like you randomly getting a mahama mob who surprise attacks you, and you couldn't prepare for that...). Instead it's just SURPRIIIISE another set of the same mobs you've been fighting over and over on that floor!

Then again, I've always been a believer of difficulty through good design and good AI. Not random variables(which aren't really that random anyway).
 
Dear God no. That (and lack of time) is the single thing thing keeping me from playing JRPGS/replaying FF VII. FF XII was a godsend in that regard.
 
Depends on encounter rate, battle duration and whether or not I have to grind.

Lost Odyssey had irritating random encounters, but the XP was set up so I didn't have to grind levels in order to progress.
 
Dunkley said:
Depends on the game, found it fitting for Final Fantasy 7-9 but I hated random encounters in the older Tales games.

I always found Pokémon does it best by clearly establishing what areas contain random encounters and offering encounter blocking items so you can choose to avoid them if you want. Bravely Default is pretty good about this, too!
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This is how I feel about random encounters when it comes to FF games vs other RPGs. Playing FF7-10, I don't mind it. But playing other RPG's such as Star Ocean or Crimson Gem Saga was pretty annoying. I do like it when they games gave the players some control the encounter rate though.
 
I think my first JRPG was FF7? I was one of those people who never played an RPG game before that they wooed with graphics. For the most part it worked. You know what made me stop playing? Random Encounters. Then came along FFX in which I progressed almost to the end but since I never ran in a circle to grind, I remember getting stuck on the last boss and saying "fuck this. I don't want to run in a circle and grind". So I stopped playing it.

I've gotten over a lot of that since then but yeah, random encounters still leave a really bad taste in my mouth.

Edit: I forgot to say that I think I remember a game that'd let you instantly win them if you were high enough level over the enemies. They all should have been that way.
 
I prefer them because many games let you manipulate the encounter rate with items or settings and they don't make me feel rushed to do anything. In games with onscreen enemies, I spend more time dodging the enemies than appreciating the environment.
 
I was thinking really hard about this and I have to say I don't see advantages of rnd encounters. It's just a mechanic that takes control away from the player.

I mean even when it's done so it's more tolerable like in Bravely Default where you can adjust it to suit your liking I still don't see how that's better than just having the player see encounters and decide for themselves whether to engage or not.

I think the only advantage in my example is that you can turn encounters entirely off.
 
I really don't mind it. It's even good when you're playing while doing something else (watching TV, talking to your girlfriend, taking a shit) because you can play with only half your brain.
 
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