Skellig Gra
Member
Yes because they'd lose the majority of military support.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Is the word "Nazi" being diluted?
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
- Start date
God Dayumm
Banned
It has always been, like when being called a grammar nazi. That one example is fun because in that context Nazi is a descriptor about perfection, instead of meaning that you are murdering grammar so bad it could be linguistic genocide.
Also, the term Godwin's Law was introduced in the 90s. So by then calling something nazi was very much a joke. But I bet the word was already diluted by 1946.
Also, the term Godwin's Law was introduced in the 90s. So by then calling something nazi was very much a joke. But I bet the word was already diluted by 1946.
frankie_baby
Member
I remember nazi being used as an insult when i was at primary school in the 80s
They embraced a white supremacist, so yes.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I do think some people are too free with calling certain types of people nazis when specifying what kind of bigot/supremacist they are would probably be more helpful.
I also think a lot of self-proclaimed liberals and progressives are far too willing to look away from what their friends and family are, leading to excessive hand-wringing about the use of the word
I also think a lot of self-proclaimed liberals and progressives are far too willing to look away from what their friends and family are, leading to excessive hand-wringing about the use of the word
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
The question of getting 30% of the vote and of 30% of the population believing something are not exactly equivalent since everyone doesn't vote; regardless, no, I genuinely don't believe a party called the Nazi Party would get 30% of the vote.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Yeah..and stop calling everyone racist. The word means nothing now. Just a difference of opinion..
without context I'd agree with you but they'd easily have the spin starting 5 years in advance and Rush and Co would find some inane explanation that enough people would latch onto (note this is assuming 30% of the vote rather than population)
If they called themselves the nazi party, probably not. But have all/most of the same aims & ideologies than nazis and call themselves The New Alt-Right Party? I wouldn't be shocked if their support was close to that. People have no problems sharing their nazi-like views when they can label it "alt-right" instead of nazism.
HazySaiyan
Banned
If the shoe fits...
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
They won't call themselves that but they'll be just as easy to recognize.
criticism is the meat of debate. Refusing the critics leads to extremist behaviors.
Real nazis would not call themselves nazis today.
In fact in 33, they called themselves National Socialists.
Grinchy
Banned
Nazi, alt-right, bigot, misogynist, gross, disgusting, fascist....all these words have now been diluted to the point that they don't even mean anything anymore.
Everyone with the opposite viewpoint of what you've been told is the right thing to believe is all these things all at once. And since you don't want to be one of these things, as soon as someone is accused of being them, you have to jump on the train too or else you're in league with them!
Remind anyone of anything?
Everyone with the opposite viewpoint of what you've been told is the right thing to believe is all these things all at once. And since you don't want to be one of these things, as soon as someone is accused of being them, you have to jump on the train too or else you're in league with them!
Remind anyone of anything?
teruterubozu
Member
Diluted for who? Nazis?
Veritigo_X
Member
I guess not actually Nazis, but they appear to share common goals with them. At the very least you could say they support policies that attract Nazis and don't seem to be bothered by this.
Slammin_Hammon
Member
I'd say the word has been diluted and I'd also argue that it is a shitty way to label someone. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about terrible people getting hurt feelings, but let's actually be accurate when we try to point out these terrible people. If they are a bigot call them a bigot, if they are a white supremacist call them a white supremacist. Defaulting to Nazi as a catch all term for someone with repugnant views just turns them into a cartoon character, making many ignore your argument, and doesn't point to what about them is so problematic.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Never mind that the most powerful country on Earth is being run by white supremacists, the real issue here is semantics!
Now you're just putting words into OPs mouth
radios shipping overview
Member
Go look at /pol/, and you tell me.
This has to be one of the lamest 'gotcha lefties' type posts i've seen on this site in while. And i've seen a lot recently. The irony of being against the overuse of terms and then throwing the McCaarthyism label around. Classy.
I don't think that's good enough. Instead of calling people on the right/Trump supporters Nazis, it would be far more productive to really drill down on their beliefs. I was shocked when I read that the majority of Trump supporters thought that both employment and the stock market FELL during the Obama years. That's an impressive display of ignorance. How did they arrive at these beliefs?
Do they believe that women should play a role in politics? If yes, then that's a pretty major divergence from Nazism. Do they buy into the Aryan theory (like, the full blown racial-religious theory?). If no, then that's a major departure from Nazism. Do they believe all homosexuals should be killed/sent to jail? If not then again that's a pretty big difference from Nazism.
Nazism has/had far ranging beliefs that touches racism, politics, economic theory, military theory, nationalism, etc. Hitler disdained capitalism. I really don't think Trump supporters hate capitalism, lol. Trump supporters elected a very loud champion of free markets (denouncing trade to appeal to blue collar voters, but the border adjustment tax is dead now which was expected).
Nazism is just too broad to be thrown out. If we're going to throw out terms I'd prefer white supremacist, traditionalist, conservative, anti-communist, etc.
Diluted for most people in the mainstream who are being constantly bombarded with these words being thrown around literally on a daily basis.
Riposte
Member
I think it partly comes down to manipulation of labels when the situation calls for it. When someone misbehaves and says something like "Social Justice Warrior" unironically they fall under the label of "alt-right" to signify they are bad and separate their negative influence away from you and your group. But obviously people who say "SJW" don't seem like much a threat and don't exactly inspire the terror necessary to create political urgency or justify political violence. They can be fairly normal people, well within the status quo and mainstream even. However, perhaps the label of alt-right, made expansive like this, does contain scary or extremist ideas and people and nothing fits that better than the sub-label of Nazis, those willing to commit genocide. So then the label of alt-right can tend be flattened to the its very worse elements. If "alt-right = nazi", then "Joe Rogan, South Park, Red Letter Media = wants to imprison, enslave, and/or kill millions of people".
EdibleKnife
Member
Except that McCarthyism was literally backed by the power of the government and abuse of the justice system to persecute people.
a lot of white supremacists call themselves Nazis and do Nazi salutes and such. This isn't without reason.
I don't particularly agree with it either, because I believe there ARE Trump supporters who backed him for anti-establishment reasons, because they DO want to see the swamp drained, or because they agree with various promises he has made. I think that's fine. However, I do think there is an attack on reason, and attacks on civil liberties that are ongoing - the nazi jibes for some in the alt-right movement and intense scrutiny are valid in my view.
The Nazis didn't jump right in with Kristallnacht, pogroms and death camps - they won popular support many years earlier. The complete lack of scrutiny and room for dissent is what allowed a civilised society to look the other way as its leaders completely flew off the rails in their morality.
My history is a little rusty, but if I remember rightly:
- Internal problems, structural problems, poor growth and quality of life - were blamed on immigrants and impure degenerates within society, all rhetoric and blame for that pointed squarely at the failures of previous political administrations and more moderate ideology. Internal minorities, external actors and 'unfair' settlements and treaties became the scapegoat and reason d'etre for Nazi policy.
- They promised an end to unemployment, a job for every German.
- They promoted "Volksmeinschaft" - an emphasis on community. The greater good of the nation was to be more important than the individual - and modern progressive ideas and Bolshevism were to be rejected.
- Employers were encouraged to employ men over women, couples were offered interest free marriage loans to encourage the traditional family unit. Women were taught home economics and motherhood skills.
- Abortion was restricted.
- Hereditary disease, disability and mental health were targeted by sterilisation.
- Infrastructure projects like new autobahns were pursued
- The people were propagandised via the media, culminating in things like Triumph of the Will. The Nazis targetted young people through things like the Hitler Youth, a broadly subscribed Nazi teachers union and a blindly loyal educational curriculum.
Now I'm not saying they're alike but:
- Internal problems, structural problems, poor growth and quality of life - blamed on immigrants, mexicans, muslims, NAFTA, etc. etc.
- The coal jobs will come back folks, honest
- Stop crying Snowflake, get behind our President
- America First, American Jobs for American People, people like Bannon in the White House, EPA targeted, abortion laws targeted, healthcare targeted in a way that will principally effect poorer people
- We're gonna build a wall
- The White House is at war with everyone who isn't Fox News
No. The word is applied fairly accurately nowadays. The real argument is that American politics is more polarized than ever and so more extreme terms are being used in the political discourse. Which is true, but I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks differently.
No way! There's plenty of Nazi fetishism in the US military.
AcademicSaucer
Member
People say grammar Nazi so yes
Yep.
The real dilution of the word Nazi is of the soup, grammar, and feminazi variety.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Regardless of whether the word is being used "appropriately" in every instance, it feels like the bigger problem is that we're seeing how many people refuse to acknowledge actual fascism or the credible threat of fascism when it shows up on their doorstep.
The irony seems to be that the historical Nazis, as a warning to the rest of the world to never again let such a thing happen, may not be very useful after all. Because they've become so mythological, such caricatures, that people will throw the word around as a mere way of saying "mean person" yet at the same time, will refuse to acknowledge when their country actually is heading down the path that leads to things like Nazism just because their leaders are not wearing SS uniforms and doing the high step down main street.
It feels like we are in the midst of an inversion of Reductio ad Hitlerum - rather than argue that X is bad because Hitler was associated with X, many people are dismissing a fascist and authoritarian wave sweeping society because the people involved do not technically qualify as historical Nazis, and didn't you know only true Nazis can be fascists?
The irony seems to be that the historical Nazis, as a warning to the rest of the world to never again let such a thing happen, may not be very useful after all. Because they've become so mythological, such caricatures, that people will throw the word around as a mere way of saying "mean person" yet at the same time, will refuse to acknowledge when their country actually is heading down the path that leads to things like Nazism just because their leaders are not wearing SS uniforms and doing the high step down main street.
It feels like we are in the midst of an inversion of Reductio ad Hitlerum - rather than argue that X is bad because Hitler was associated with X, many people are dismissing a fascist and authoritarian wave sweeping society because the people involved do not technically qualify as historical Nazis, and didn't you know only true Nazis can be fascists?
ReadingRambo
Member
It's not quite to "commie" levels of dillution, yet. When talking total death toll, facsizm ain't got shit on communism, though.
Audioboxer
Member
I think it's an American political thing if anything right now. No one in the UK I know goes around calling "anyone" Nazis, except actual Nazis. I mean, most of my friends lean SNP or Labour, but we don't call Conservatives Nazis.
Then again with the way the internet changes people I think half of the internet calling others Nazis won't actually be doing it away from the power of their keyboard. Some of the younger generations probably don't pay attention in history class either and maybe do think Nazi is just some catch all for "asshole person" or "person I don't like". There would be WW2 deceased turning over in their graves with some of the flippant use of the terminology/ideology.
When something is something, fair enough, when you deceive yourself to use descriptors/language and words incorrectly you're only making a mockery of your own critical thinking faculties. Or you're brainwashed/indoctrinated to genuinely think there's Nazis under your bed, outside your home and literally thousands everywhere you look.
Then again with the way the internet changes people I think half of the internet calling others Nazis won't actually be doing it away from the power of their keyboard. Some of the younger generations probably don't pay attention in history class either and maybe do think Nazi is just some catch all for "asshole person" or "person I don't like". There would be WW2 deceased turning over in their graves with some of the flippant use of the terminology/ideology.
When something is something, fair enough, when you deceive yourself to use descriptors/language and words incorrectly you're only making a mockery of your own critical thinking faculties. Or you're brainwashed/indoctrinated to genuinely think there's Nazis under your bed, outside your home and literally thousands everywhere you look.
People in the mainstream like who?
Still waiting for you to elaborate on that grey area
Could it be possible that incidents involving these behaviors are increasing, causing people to say it a lot more?
enixbelmont
Member
I think this is why too many people see people calling, say, Trump, these things, then don't take it seriously, because they've seen the same words being used for very minor things. I don't know how that excuses blatant "Grab em by the pussy" comments, though, so maybe its just an excuse.
ReadingRambo
Member
With sword drawn no doubt.
"The lady doth protest too much" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare, circa 1609
Got any examples of how and where those words are over-used? Just curious.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Yup, the actual worrying thing is people dismissing those labels, and that works towards the overall goal shitheads have of normalising hateful views and rhetoric.
