Support NeoGAF

[CartridgeBlower]

I'm a complete novice when it comes to astronomy, and that's partially why I'm asking.

But every time I watch a Nova, or read up on it, my brain is unable to comprehend how gigantic they tell us the universe really is.

Knowing very little about dark matter and dark energy, I still want to ask -- is there anyway these things could change the way we understand the universe -- in the idea that the universe is actually much SMALLER than we currently believe?

And if so, are there any current theories or scientists pushing through any schools of thought on this?

I'd like to hear an educated counter-argument to the usual 20th century 'the universe is infinitely expanding' argument. But does one even exist?

 

[Atramental]

Smaller compared to what?

 

[Foreign Jackass]

 

[Deleted member 81567]

I'm also a novice but it'll take alot of time for one to fully explain what's going out there.
If I had to guess I think it really is that big.

If Mass Effect taught me something it's that the galaxy requires alot of fuel for your spaceship to traverse through.

 

[DanteFox]

If anything, it's probably bigger than we think.

 

[Trent Strong]

Well, eventually we'll figure out that what's happening on the quantum scale is not unpredictable or random. We'll gain a more mature understanding of quantum mechanics, and be able to predict everything sub atomic particles do.

 

[Filth]

something something something big very big big something something

 

[TacticalFox88]

The true beauty of science is that terms and knowledge evolve overtime. It's not static. Hell for all we know, what we think of as the atom now, 200 years from now people looking back will think "What the fuck were you guys smoking?"

 

[opticalmace]

Well, eventually we'll figure out that what's happening on the quantum scale is not unpredictable or random. We'll gain a more mature understanding of quantum mechanics, and be able to predict everything sub atomic particles do.

So you reject the heisenberg uncertainty principle as a fundamental natural limit? Why?

 

[MindCollizion]

the universe is actually only light going through a prism.

 

[Bloodbeard]

Yes, there is that chance.

 

[Acid08]

Nothing about the universe is sure. We don't know shit about it.

 

[Trent Strong]

So you reject the heisenberg uncertainty principle as a fundamental natural limit? Why?

Because that's what my gut tells me. Just kidding. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't know anything about physics.

 

[Stinkles]

I can't answer your question, but our idea of absolute scale is based on our perspective. It's probably not a coincidence that our planet falls somewhere directly in the middle of a Planck length and the outermost limits of the universe. We've anthropomorphized science and scale.

 

[Jal]

Smaller compared to what?

The other universes.

 

[Atramental]

The other universes.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

[Stinkles]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

And this is not wooly philosophy either. This is probability.

 

[TacticalFox88]

The other universes.

My mind just asploded. Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.

 

[Mindlog]

It's widely theorized that the incredible vastness of our universe is an incredibly small sliver of a greater multiverse.

So many possibilities that this had to be inevitable. Yet, I am quite content.

 

[Forkball]

The universe is just my mental perception of reality. Nothing exists until I learn about or experience it. For example, this thread never existed until I saw it and my mind willed it into being.

 

[owlbeak]

I always find it neat how orbits work and how it's similar to that of atoms and their particles. My money is that our universe is contained in a piece of dust in some other universe/something much larger. We're just a piece of the puzzle.

Macroverse is what I believe the theory is called.

 

[DanteFox]

So you reject the heisenberg uncertainty principle as a fundamental natural limit? Why?

the uncertainty principle is a limit to precision of measurement, not a statement about physical reality itself.

The universe is just my mental perception of reality. Nothing exists until I learn about or experience it. For example, this thread never existed until I saw it and my mind willed it into being.

where does the information that you mind learns come from then?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

i always get depressed thinking about the universe and all the possibilities because i don't think any significant breakthroughs will happen in my lifetime. sucks that there could be other civilizations or lifeforms out there and i'll never get to know about them

 

[KarmaCow]

How small do you want it because frankly the size of the Milky Way is pretty mind blowing much less the voids between galaxies.

i always get depressed thinking about the universe and all the possibilities because i don't think any significant breakthroughs will happen in my lifetime. sucks that there could be other civilizations or lifeforms out there and i'll never get to know about them

Just think about how much you can know now compared to even just 100 years ago.

 

[Fuzzery]

It's turtles all the way down.

 

[SRG01]

the uncertainty principle is a limit to precision of measurement, not a statement about physical reality itself.

Finally someone who actually understands the theory! The uncertainty principle shows up in many places, such as the time-frequency duality in RF communications.

Actually, the uncertainty principle is a fundamental of calculus.

 

[Onion_Relish]

The universe is just my mental perception of reality. Nothing exists until I learn about or experience it. For example, this thread never existed until I saw it and my mind willed it into being.

It wasnt until I realised just how petty and self-serving humans were that i understood how just such a world view could come into existence. Let me guess, you believe poor people are poor because they dont work hard enough, right?

Spoiler

putting this spoiler here just in case you werent serious, which i suspect you werent. But yeah, if someone said something like this to me in real life, I might consider hitting them

 

[LaserBuddha]

It wasnt until I realised just how petty and self-serving humans were that i understood how just such a world view could come into existence. Let me guess, you believe poor people are poor because they dont work hard enough, right?

Spoiler

putting this spoiler here just in case you werent serious, which i suspect you werent. But yeah, if someone said something like this to me in real life, I might consider hitting them

What's your problem? Not only are you pulling that poor people thing out of nowhere, but the fact that you'd consider hitting someone over this is pathetic.

EDIT: the real issue seems to be that you don't fully understand solipsism, explaining this nonsensical reaction to it.

 

[BobDylan]

I mentally can not handle conversations like this. I continue to come to the same conclusion every fucking time I think about what is beyond the universe or similar ideas. that conclusion is that my brain can not possibly comprehend such things and it is very frustrating

 

[thetrin]

Spoiler

putting this spoiler here just in case you werent serious, which i suspect you werent. But yeah, if someone said something like this to me in real life, I might consider hitting them

I don't think you actually understand what he said. Otherwise you simply could have thrown a Descartes quote his way to discount it.

the uncertainty principle is a limit to precision of measurement, not a statement about physical reality itself.
where does the information that you mind learns come from then?

The mind. One side serves the other as a product of random impulses. The other side interprets the random impulses and creates patterns and threads of understanding to make it a coherent narrative.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

What do you think "the universe" is?

 

[thetrin]

What do you think "the universe" is?

A vast empty and undefined portion of my overactive imagination.

 

[Raistlin]

Well, eventually we'll figure out that what's happening on the quantum scale is not unpredictable or random. We'll gain a more mature understanding of quantum mechanics, and be able to predict everything sub atomic particles do.

It's also quite possible that it actually isn't predictable. Regardless, I'm not quite sure how understanding quantum mechanics relates to the question at hand?

Nothing about the universe is sure. We don't know shit about it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430258

http://i.imgur.com/ZDp21.jpg

We can actually 'see' quite far into the universe. For it to not actually be as big as proposed, several physical laws would need to be wrong, or more likely change as you move away from Earth. It's not just that they'd need to change though, it's that they'd need to change such that they all coincidentally point to the same errant conclusion.

That's about as likely as looking at the Grand Canyon and innumerable other pieces of data on Earth and finding out it really was all put their by God in order to test our faith regarding the age of the planet.

 

[MilesWebber]

 

[Forkball]

where does the information that you mind learns come from then?

The information doesn't exist until my mind creates it.

It wasnt until I realised just how petty and self-serving humans were that i understood how just such a world view could come into existence. Let me guess, you believe poor people are poor because they dont work hard enough, right?

Spoiler

putting this spoiler here just in case you werent serious, which i suspect you werent. But yeah, if someone said something like this to me in real life, I might consider hitting them

Poor people are poor because it is logical. If we have wealth, there must also be poverty, this is how my mind perceives it.

But seriously, I don't really believe this. But I have thought about what if I was the only consciousness in the universe, and everything was just some sort of logic-driven perception. For example, an event in history never happened until I learn about it. Let's use the Spanish Civil War. Before I learned about it, the war never happened. Only then when I am aware of it do I seek out more information, and my mind creates this information. Then again, how would a consciousness define logic? To create assumptions about something like "human nature," the concept has to exist. How could this concept be created from nothing without a starting point?

 

[Quagm1r3]

Second post nails it. Sounds like the OP is having difficulty coming to grips with the fact that science defies how the bible defines the universe.

 

[linko9]

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title. The universe is really just one of a giant's brain cells...

 

[Velti]

The universe is just my mental perception of reality. Nothing exists until I learn about or experience it. For example, this thread never existed until I saw it and my mind willed it into being.

You rang?

Spoiler

Claire Stanfield from Baccano! An acrobatic romantic solipsist assasin sociopath.

 

[NotebookJ2]

Well, you learn something new everyday.

 

[speedpop]

Just remember that 100 years ago humanity had no concept of the universe that we know today. The theories, both supported and dismissed, become more varied with each year. Ultimately we know nothing outside of our unwavering commitment to the pursuit of truth.

 

[Necromanti]

Something that has always fascinated me about mathematics is how it can be used to express the infinitely large and the infinitesimally small, and the relationships that span between those extremes. It makes me wonder if we will ever identify the smallest subatomic particle (or if it even exists in such terms), or if there indeed is a multiverse, how much truly larger beyond that the scope of existence truly is.

 

[Stat Flow]

There is no truth. Only what we perceive.

 

[Freakinchair]

There is no truth. Only what we perceive.

There is no perception, only truth!

 

[wenis]

Dude, let me just get through this week and I'll be happy.

 

[DanteFox]

There is no truth. Only what we perceive.

Self-refuting statement. Try again. =D

 

[Atramental]

There is no perception, only truth!

That is what you perceive.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Second post nails it. Sounds like the OP is having difficulty coming to grips with the fact that science defies how the bible defines the universe.

Never said that, never implied it, so let's stop putting words in my mouth to try to make this a religion vs. science debate. Hope we can end that there and stay the course, as we've been doing. Trying to expand our minds here (or is it shrink them?), not score points and induce massive amounts of eye-rolling.

Anyway, I once heard there were more neuron connections in a single human brain than atoms in the universe. Am I remembering that right or did I just mash two things together in my own brain and come up with some nonsense right there?

 

[MWS Natural]

If anything, it's probably bigger than we think.

New York to LA seemed far 100 years ago. We'll get it figured out, just not in our lifetime.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Anyway, I once heard there were more neuron connections in a single human brain than atoms in the universe. Am I remembering that wrong or did I just mash two things together in my own brain and come up with some nonsense right there?

you're definitely misremembering.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

New York to LA seemed far 100 years ago. We'll get it figured out, just not in our lifetime.

If you make it to 2050, you stand a good chance of living forever digitally.