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[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

This is related to issues discussed in this thread, I was thinking about this and something really clicked for me.

I was reminded of the 2005 first person shooter Darkwatch, about a vampire cowboy, and just how goofy the game is and how over the top it's fanservice was and how goofy many games from back then used to be, in a charming way mind you, but the vast majority of video games back then used to be very escapist like that, not at all trying to feel "real" but more like playing a comic book or cartoon.

A big part of this could just be simple limitations of graphics at that time, you couldn't make characters look in any way "real" so why not go over the top?

But now in today's climate we have games that go so far in the opposite of something like Darkwatch, gone are square jawed male heroes and huge breasted heroines, instead we have something like Anthem, which despite being a sci fi action game features a lot of characters who are simply unappealing at best or just ugly at worst.

What changed? Where did this attitude that fantasy and escapism has to always be toned down now, that even a game where you fly around and shoot aliens can't feature badass heroes and buxom babes but instead people who you might see while shopping at Wal-Mart, come from?

Well, as I said for the longest time it was rare that you could make a video game character really start to look real, that all changed with the release of Half-Life 2 in 2004, suddenly the faces of characters really started to approach real life.

But beyond the technical aspects, it was the tone and general aesthetic of Valve's approach, Half-Life 2 was about an alien invasion but the idea was this was happening in the "real world", it went for a grounded feel, this wasn't a comic book or cartoon but a gritty hard science fiction reality that had you meeting and fighting alongside people who looked like everyday people., not comic book characters.

Darkwatch meanwhile looked like something straight out of the 90s aesthetic wise, like the FPS Blood, but came out a year after Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2 on other hand was very forward thinking, more like a game from the 2010s.

This is most obvious when you compare the game's female characters, Tala from Darkwatch and Alyx Vance from Half-Life 2, keep in mind Darkwatch came out the year after Half-Life 2, which is fucking hilarious to think about.

Valve continued the trend with the Left 4 Dead series and it's female characters, who looked like everyday people and it's general tone of a zombie apocalypse happening in the "real world"

It's interesting to note that Valve was basically done after Portal 2 in 2011, but I think they had a long lasting influence, I think Half-Life 2 is what every AAA western developer is going for these days, they want their games to have a grounded feel, like they're taking place in the "real world" even if it's science fiction or fantasy.

And that makes sense and take some of the sting out of it all as to why they make games the way they do now, but you'll notice that Alyx Vance is still an attractive character, she looks like a real person but she's not in any way ugly or unappealing and Valve didn't make the games they way they made them for any political reason, this was long before any virtue signaling or the idea of using games as tools of social engineering.

I mean beautiful women exist in real life, do they not? We're not talking unicorns here, is there not a happy medium between something over the top like Tala and the ugly females you often see in modern games? Something like Alyx Vance.

And while grounded and realistic is cool, what's wrong with a little variety? I'd like to see more games that have the over the top style of 90s and 2000s games, complete with the fanservice, modern AAA gaming is feeling pretty samey when they all want to go for that "grounded" tone, when even something like God of War does it.

This brings me back to the fact that in the mid-2000s games like Darkwatch and Half-Life could coexist peacefully, we've gotten away from that and that's a shame, I miss the variety gaming used to have in tone and approach.

But am I right? Is Valve the progenitor of the style and approach of modern video games?

 

[Viliger]

Basically, equality programs and diversity hires happened. And when those happen, Andromeda, BFV, BFA and Anthem happen.
Also, before HL2 we had Shenmue. Prior to that I don't think anything "realistic" could've happened, since graphics were not on the level. There were grounded to reallity games, such as Fallout series prior to bastardization by Bethesda, but they don't really count here, since we are talking about I guess the connection between realistic faces and actual reality. Now that I think about it, I am not actually sure what your point is.

 

[Yoshi]

Well, certainly not for the games I like (though I do like Portal 1 & 2 from Valve). But for some developers, some landmark titles from Valve probably are among the inspirations for their work.

 

[petran79]

Basically, equality programs and diversity hires happened. And when those happen, Andromeda, BFV, BFA and Anthem happen.
Also, before HL2 we had Shenmue. Prior to that I don't think anything "realistic" could've happened, since graphics were not on the level. There were grounded to reallity games, such as Fallout series prior to bastardization by Bethesda, but they don't really count here, since we are talking about I guess the connection between realistic faces and actual reality. Now that I think about it, I am not actually sure what your point is.

Closest would have been FMV adventure games with real actors or games like Cyberia. But the technology was not ready for 3d roaming and gameplay was frustrating.

 

[deriks]

No. They made one of the best engines ever used and the first virtual gaming store, but the rest, other people did too.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Max Payne in 1999 was on a pretty serious note, dark and somber, no super heroes, no aliens, nothing goofy about it. And the women in it were potrayed in suits.

So Id say no, half life didn't create a more serious tone to gaming. They were the first to use skeletal animation on faces and the physics engine was next level. But as far as tone and potrayal of women in gaming more seriously has been done years before by other games.

 

[ROMhack]

Interesting perspective. I think it's fairer to say that the market for games has expanded in recent years and that the biggest games now want as broad an audience as possible. I imagine it's easier to market them when they're realistic as being imaginative rests on appealing to a specific taste which threatens to alienate others.

It may also be because many mid-size developers went belly-up. They were the ones chasing the cult market you're describing with Darkwatch. That's not good enough for any major publisher in 2019 as they don't want small victories. Thankfully indies exist and also the likes of Platinum Games.

However, Fortnite isn't realistic and it's the biggest game in the world. What does that say?

Also, I think you're right about Alyx Vance. She is absolutely still one of the best female characters in videogames, along with Kate Walker (Syberia) and Zoe Castillo/April Ryan (The Longest Journey/Dreamfall).

 

[Alexios]

Uuuh, no, modern games existed before Valve and most certainly before the iterative sequel to their first hit, Half-Life.

Half-Life was interesting with its scripted sequences vs cut scenes which made a splash but it's not like all modern games follow that, cut scenes, in game or otherwise, are still prevalent and even Half-Life 2 itself faltered from the "always in control, always in first person" aspect of the original.

And you still have goofy games today and they aren't outdated, not-goofy games aren't an evolution, just a chosen theme to implement or avoid based on what the developer wants to convey.

Not-goofy games existed since the text based gaming days, not only after we reached 2004 and your personal, subjective threshold of "good enough" graphics.

How are Ocarina of Time and Metal Gear Solid any less important in gaming evolution than Half-Life (all of them releasing within the span of a couple months originally)?

It would be much more interesting to discuss what Valve brought to the table (which isn't just plausible realism, other even older games were much more realistic, how about that Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon series?) than just say yes they are or no they aren't the father of whatever.

 

[dirthead]

Absolutely not, because Valve games are just id games with scripted events. If you're going to play that card, id would be the father of modern video games.

I mean, you could make Apex Legends--as in, it would play 100% exactly the same--in the Quake 1 engine if you wanted to. That's how little things have advanced on a fundamental level.

 

[Lucumo]

Max Payne in 1999 was on a pretty serious note, dark and somber, no super heroes, no aliens, nothing goofy about it. And the women in it were potrayed in suits.

The game was released in 2001.

Also, before HL2 we had Shenmue.

*ding* *ding* *ding* Completely correct. Shenmue laid the groundwork for a lot of things, especially when it came to 3D environments.

 

[dirthead]

*ding* *ding* *ding* Completely correct. Shenmue laid the groundwork for a lot of things, especially when it came to 3D environments.

I disagree. The real barrier for open world 3D games was dealing with loading times. Grand Theft Auto 3 was pretty revolutionary in that regard. It was one of the first real 3D games that basically didn't have load times.

Shen Mue was a slog because of the constant loading. It didn't solve the fundamental problem that was holding back open 3D games. GTA3 rightly gets most of the credit for that. It was the watershed game.

If we're not talking about open world, Quake 1 and Mario 64 basically laid the groundwork for all the boxed in 3D games.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

First of all, it's important to remember that it's hard to pin down when something very first started, there's always a precedent, what I am saying is that Half-Life 2 set the standard of what AAA game designers are going for these days.

Basically, equality programs and diversity hires happened. And when those happen, Andromeda, BFV, BFA and Anthem happen.
Also, before HL2 we had Shenmue. Prior to that I don't think anything "realistic" could've happened, since graphics were not on the level. There were grounded to reallity games, such as Fallout series prior to bastardization by Bethesda, but they don't really count here, since we are talking about I guess the connection between realistic faces and actual reality. Now that I think about it, I am not actually sure what your point is.

What I'm trying to say is that maybe there's a relationship between the advancement of gaming technology and the general toning down of female character designs and other over the top elements of gaming's yesteryear.

Maybe as graphics got more realistic making every female character have a large bust and a big behind started to look ridiculous, as if every female character was a porn star.

So maybe it wasn't all politically motivated, although this doesn't explain the most recent trend of making people ugly, which certainly is, but I'm just trying to pin down when the modern form of game design began in earnest.

Max Payne in 1999 was on a pretty serious note, dark and somber, no super heroes, no aliens, nothing goofy about it. And the women in it were potrayed in suits.

So Id say no, half life didn't create a more serious tone to gaming. They were the first to use skeletal animation on faces and the physics engine was next level. But as far as tone and potrayal of women in gaming more seriously has been done years before by other games.

Max Payne is actually a very good example.

One other example of a ahead of their time female protagonist is Kate Archer from the No One Lives Forever games, who was sexy, but not in a over the top way and they were FPS starring a female character, which was pretty rare at the time (Medal of Honor Underground is another example of that too)

 

[dirthead]

Not really. Through the 360/PS3 era, tits were generally getting bigger than they had ever been before, and graphics got way better from 1996 to 2005.

It's purely the social/political climate. We're part of full on outrage culture now. It has nothing to do with technology. It has everything to do with perceived backlash and the fear of lower sales.

Soul Calibur is a really nice touchstone. Peak tits was 360/PS3 era.

 

[Redneckerz]

I mean, you could make Apex Legends--as in, it would play 100% exactly the same--in the Quake 1 engine if you wanted to. That's how little things have advanced on a fundamental level.

Yeah it literally wouldn't, you know. Even BLOPS 4 they had to create new tech to accomodate the large space terrain.

The level format, however, that is mostly the same, and i guess that's what you are referring to.

 

[WaterAstro]

If father of modern game means father of loot crates, then yes.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Not at all.

Modern AAA games have many inspirations and there are more obvious ones that Half Life 2. For example, Resident Evil 4.

As for "mature gaming" complex plots like the ones in Metal Gear or Final Fantasy VII were far more groundbreaking that whatever Valve has ever done.

Anyway, They are also a relevant piece in the puzzle of videogames history but not any more important than other companies from Rockstar to Sony.

 

[klosos]

The grandfather of modern gaming to a large extent imo is Ultima 7 released 1992, the game was open world, day and night cycle, npc had routines (go to work and such) very primative stuff but it still done it in 92.

All this this are staples of modern gaming.

Also adult story in the first 5 minutes of gameplay someone had been ritually killed and a gargoyle speared through the gut, stuck to the wall. A classic and a game i dont think gets the credit for how forward thinking it was.

Obviously its not just one its multiple small pushes forward by multiple games that propel thr gaming industry forward to where it is today.

 

[Viliger]

Maybe as graphics got more realistic making every female character have a large bust and a big behind started to look ridiculous, as if every female character was a porn star.

A point can be made that exaggerated proportions were made due to limitations, since when you have only so many polys (and pixels in general) in the image, you kinda have to go all way to make someone (or in case of female modes - something) stand out. Remember, Lara Croft first model's tits were literally a triangle.
The higher the polycount the more nuances you can make in the model and there is no need anymore to make DDD tits in order to make it clear to the player that female character model is in front of him.

 

[Melon Husk]

They're a cool uncle

edit: Carmack is daddy

 

[petran79]

I disagree. The real barrier for open world 3D games was dealing with loading times. Grand Theft Auto 3 was pretty revolutionary in that regard. It was one of the first real 3D games that basically didn't have load times.

Shen Mue was a slog because of the constant loading. It didn't solve the fundamental problem that was holding back open 3D games. GTA3 rightly gets most of the credit for that. It was the watershed game.

If we're not talking about open world, Quake 1 and Mario 64 basically laid the groundwork for all the boxed in 3D games.

Flight simulators laid the ground work for true 3d open world too few years earlier

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Prior to the original Half-Life FPS were more or less story-less go from point a to point b games with not much. Half-Life brought cinema and story to FPS and is influential today. Half-Life 2 as great as it was, I don't consider it to be all that inspirational.

 

[Fuz]

Tala > Alyx

 

[Airola]

Max Payne in 1999 was on a pretty serious note, dark and somber, no super heroes, no aliens, nothing goofy about it. And the women in it were potrayed in suits.

So Id say no, half life didn't create a more serious tone to gaming. They were the first to use skeletal animation on faces and the physics engine was next level. But as far as tone and potrayal of women in gaming more seriously has been done years before by other games.

Came to post Max Payne.

I don't like Max Payne and I don't like the direction games took around that time but I think Max Payne was amazingly influental and groundbreaking.

 

[Lucumo]

Prior to the original Half-Life FPS were more or less story-less go from point a to point b games with not much. Half-Life brought cinema and story to FPS and is influential today.

What about SiN which came out before Half Life?

 

[MilkyJoe]

I'd say Nintendo with the N64. Analogue sticks, 3D graphics, first person. Everything is just a continuation of that.

 

[scalman]

valve ...is father of nothing. and now its just sleeping on money bags doing nothing.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I'd say modern videogaming is dominated/driven by consoles, how'd Valve's console do?

 

[Alexios]

I'd say modern videogaming is dominated/driven by consoles, how'd Valve's console do?

How is it dominated by consoles, the highest grossing games are mobile games and maybe some PC f2p stuff (or multiplatform like Fortnite too) or the odd behemoth or two like World of Warcraft. Valve never made a console. Also the thread says video games, not video game platforms.

 

[Lucumo]

I'd say Nintendo with the N64. Analogue sticks, 3D graphics, first person. Everything is just a continuation of that.

What? The N64-controller was not the first analogue stick and 3D graphics and first person was there before as well.

 

[manfestival]

Gordon Freeman is the father of modern gaming.

 

[Woo-Fu]

How is it dominated by consoles, the highest grossing games are mobile games and maybe some PC f2p stuff (or multiplatform like Fortnite too) or the odd behemoth or two like World of Warcraft. Valve never made a console. Also the thread says video games, not video game platforms.

Valve did father a console platform. The fact you've already forgotten about it tells you how well it did.

Consoles still drive the industry due to the money the platform holders dump into developers. Mobile gaming doesn't do anything that wasn't already done somewhere else. Name the gameplay elements coming from mobile into console. I'm talking actual gameplay, not business models.

 

[Lionel Richie]

And that makes sense and take some of the sting out of it all as to why they make games the way they do now, but you'll notice that Alyx Vance is still an attractive character, she looks like a real person but she's not in any way ugly or unappealing and Valve didn't make the games they way they made them for any political reason, this was long before any virtue signaling or the idea of using games as tools of social engineering.

I think this point is important OP, Alyx is still a beautiful looking character. Like Chell, she has a distinctive art style that looks natural. It suits the game and I think that was the goal. I don't think they did anything in that regard differently than older cRPGs. But undoubtedly given how popular Half Life became, it was very influential. Sadly, people at Bioware seem to have missed the point entirely.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that the original DOOM is the father of modern gaming, albeit for different reasons. The contextual unspoken narrative of that game is still brilliant, it was metal as fuck and very authentic. It legit told a story through gameplay and is still a perfect example of (and I apologize in advance) ludonarrative consonance.

 

[Alexios]

Valve did father a console platform. The fact you've already forgotten about it tells you how well it did.

Consoles still drive the industry due to the money the platform holders dump into developers. Mobile gaming doesn't do anything that wasn't already done somewhere else. Name the gameplay elements coming from mobile into console. I'm talking actual gameplay, not business models.

Valve never made a console, the fact you think they did shows how little you know about the things you're trying to show you're informed about. Steam machines were (are, if you happened to get one it works just as well as any other PC you bought from different vendors/branding) PCs.

You're jumping from dominance to most well funded to the origin of, all completely different points which will have a different answer for each rather than the same one overall (consoles certainly weren't the originator of many established video game norms) as you implied.

But once again, read the title/OP, hell, the game the OP discusses the most came out on consoles after PC so how can you possibly think he's talking about fathering platforms in that way?

 

[MilkyJoe]

What? The N64-controller was not the first analogue stick and 3D graphics and first person was there before as well.

What had analogue before?, and a 3D Fps, not sprites?

 

[Alexios]

What had analogue before?, and a 3D Fps, not sprites?

You never heard of Quake? Really? Not that it matters if they're sprited or real 3D when the origin and line of evolution is so clear cut. Did the old racing games with sprite scaling tech like Outrun really not pave the way for the genre?

And there was polygonal 3D FP gameplay even long before Quake. Like Space Station Oblivion (1987) and Total Eclipse (1988).

Also, the first consumer games console which had analog joysticks was the Prinztronic/Acetronic/Interton series, launched in 1976. For something more popular and actually self-centering there was the Vectrex in 1982.

 

[CrustyBritches]

The template for modern Sony-style walking sim games came from Shenmue. It's principally trying to get you to care about characters as friends or real people. I guess you could call them "Cinematic" games, which is how Shenmue marketed itself.

 

[zeorhymer]

Father of all games is Pong. Everything came out of it. Pong opened Pandora's Box and everyone is enjoying electronic games because of it.

 

[BigBooper]

No, that's ridiculous. It's like saying The Matrix is the father of modern action movies. We are several years removed from the time when that might have been a decent argument. You might as well say Sampson from the bible inspired Kratos and other modern action game protagonists.

 

[Lucumo]

What had analogue before?, and a 3D Fps, not sprites?

The Mega Drive had an analogue controller made for it before. And of course, Goldeneye was 1997, Quake, for instance, was 1996 if you insist on the 3D FPS combo.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

I think people are misunderstanding what I meant by "modern" video games, I'm specifically talking games over the last few years, games like Anthem, games that can be described as having a "SJW" style.

I'm just trying to pin down what the first game that could really be described that way would be and I think it's Half-Life 2, not that HL2 was really SJW, but it did offer a more grounded approach than most games did at the time and I think that over time it became more and more influential.

I remember Alyx Vance being praised even at the time for being a refreshing portrayal of a female character, well, when you're a dev years later in an era where there's a lot of scrutiny over portrayals of female characters, who are going to focus on when looking back for inspiration?

A point can be made that exaggerated proportions were made due to limitations, since when you have only so many polys (and pixels in general) in the image, you kinda have to go all way to make someone (or in case of female modes - something) stand out. Remember, Lara Croft first model's tits were literally a triangle.
The higher the polycount the more nuances you can make in the model and there is no need anymore to make DDD tits in order to make it clear to the player that female character model is in front of him.

My point exactly, when graphics were cruder exaggerated features that helped determine what gender a character was at a glance were the name of the game, hence big breasts and butts for female characters, which is really just the female version of a male with big muscles and a barrel chest.

Tala > Alyx

I would certainly like to see a return of the more exaggerated bodies and over the top tone of older gaming, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with making a game feel grounded as well.

I appreciate games that go for real drama, but there is something to be said for games that are more just for fun.

I think this point is important OP, Alyx is still a beautiful looking character. Like Chell, she has a distinctive art style that looks natural. It suits the game and I think that was the goal. I don't think they did anything in that regard differently than older cRPGs. But undoubtedly given how popular Half Life became, it was very influential. Sadly, people at Bioware seem to have missed the point entirely.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that the original DOOM is the father of modern gaming, albeit for different reasons. The contextual unspoken narrative of that game is still brilliant, it was metal as fuck and very authentic. It legit told a story through gameplay and is still a perfect example of (and I apologize in advance) ludonarrative consonance.

Zoey and Rochelle in Left 4 Dead were attractive as well.

Like I said, there's a difference between a female character who looks like a porn star, one who is attractive but looks like an everyday person and one who is purposely ugly and unappealing to spite "sexist" gamers, I'm ok with the first two approaches, but I hate the third, I wish we could get back to the second one being the standard because that was a good compromise.

The template for modern Sony-style walking sim games came from Shenmue. It's principally trying to get you to care about characters as friends or real people. I guess you could call them "Cinematic" games, which is how Shenmue marketed itself.

Shenmue is certainly a big influence, yes, but Shenmue did not contain any science fiction, horror or fantasy elements, I'm talking about when those genres went for a more realistic, grounded approach.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

What a great write-up, OP. I honestly agree with you on everything that you said. I can understand why people may disagree with you, but your argument is strong enough to stand on it's own. I'll treat this thread as some kind of history class rather than bashing other's perspectives on the matter at hand.

 

[PuppetMaster]

No. I would say ID Software.

 

[Alexios]

Wait, this is just about ladies not having gigantic boobs as if that's what defines "modern games" to you to have that as the title? Still 100% wrong anyway, how's Jill Valentine in Resident Evil 1 any different to Alyx for example? Lovely down to earth contextual design and she's far from the oldest. Meryl in MGS might have been a little bit sexualized in some scenes but she also had a good down to earth plausible cinematic design. And then there was Sniper Wolf. Heather in Silent Hill 3? Kate Walker in Syberia? Tons and tons of others before and after. How about OoT Zelda/Sheik? And the original Half-Life didn't have any women like that Tala to think it was Half-Life 2 and Alyx (honestly her design always reminded me of Code Veronica Claire Redfield from 4 years earlier anyway, she just showed a little bit more of her waist/tummy) that changed things for Valve either.

Edit: oh, so it's about women being ugly and SJWs. Wtf. It keeps getting worse. There's pretty much no purposefully ugly woman in such a role (ok, there probably are, I can't think of any atm). Nu-lara might not be an over the top bomb shell but she's definitely designed to be appealing, as most.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Zoey and Rochelle in Left 4 Dead were attractive as well.

Like I said, there's a difference between a female character who looks like a porn star, one who is attractive but looks like an everyday person and one who is purposely ugly and unappealing to spite "sexist" gamers, I'm ok with the first two approaches, but I hate the third, I wish we could get back to the second one being the standard because that was a good compromise.

I very much agree with you here, but I don't think we're seeing the third approach that much. Maybe I'm an optimistic, but I think about Spider-Man with a grounded but definitely good looking Mary Jane or God of War with total MILF Freya. There's still hope.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

No. I would say ID Software.

ID Software is responsible for games that have a more grounded tone? Well ok, then.

Wait, this is just about ladies not having gigantic boobs as if that's what defines "modern games" to you to have that as the title? Still 100% wrong anyway, how's Jill Valentine in Resident Evil 1 any different to Alyx for example? Lovely down to earth contextual design and she's far from the oldest. Meryl in MGS might have been a little bit sexualized in some scenes but she also had a good down to earth plausible cinematic design. And then there was Sniper Wolf. And the original Half-Life didn't have any women like that Tala to think it was Half-Life 2 that changed things either.

It's not just about female characters but that is a very big part of what I'm talking about.

Male characters tend to be pretty toned down over what you used to see as well.

I'm talking about games like this

A crazy looking male character and a female character dressed like a stripper, this is what you don't see in most western games anymore.

And a lot of 2000s era games were like that, but in the midst of it all you had Valve's games which seemed to anticipate how games are made today.