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Is/was Mario a Latino?

Principate said:
That's what I said from the start you just were misinterpreting me me. I was stating that a Large proportion of the English language was derived from Latin. By that I meant the actual words within the within the language not the structure.

My greatest fault is that but I quickly remedied that by distinctly talking about the words.
Click to expand...

But even with words, you're wrong. Just look at what you just typed. How many words in these sentences do you think are of latin origin?

That > Das
is > ist
What > was
I > ich
Said > gesagt (to say = sagen)
from > von
start > start

And so on and so forth.

It would be next to impossible for you to make a sentence in english that is mostly constructed on latin-based words. Yes, you can find many latin/french-based words in english. There were actually additions which in many many cases already had a germanic equivalent first, though.
 
SpacePirate Ridley said:
WAIT WHAT!?
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We had a nice long thread on this I mean the English language has significant influence from Latin.

Raist said:
But even with words, you're wrong. Just look at what you just typed. How many words in these sentences do you think are of latin origin?

That > Das
is > ist
What > was
I > ich
Said > gesagt (to say = sagen)
from > von
start > start

And so on and so forth.

It would be next to impossible for you to make a sentence in english that is mostly constructed on latin-based words. Yes, you can find many latin/french-based words in english. There were actually additions which in many many cases already had a germanic equivalent first, though.
Click to expand...

There's a Wikipedia page posed a few pages back with a few thousand Latin influenced words.

Also the letter A.
 
Art said:
I just checked what it means in Dutch, and it said Southern-American, so it's not just the USA.
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yeah, it's normal around the world people associate latinos as persons from South America, Central America and Mexico. That region is basically formed by spanish colonies.

But to be historically accurate, people from part of Europe are also latinos, just is not common to be called so.
 
Principate said:
We had a nice long thread on this I mean the English language has significant influence from Latin.
Click to expand...
Yes i had to go back after i posted, and im sorry but you are still completly wrong, even if a small (im sorry but its not significant) influence came from latin that doesnt make the language or country latin, bot even partly. Spain has also influence from arabic languages and culture and still a latin country.
You were moving goalposts as people explained to you that you were wrong, so my point still stands, im still surprised you said that (you only made it worse when yoi said in the same post people need to study more history).
 
Principate said:
There's a Wikipedia page posed a few pages back with a few thousand Latin influenced words.
Click to expand...

Yes. Compared to hundreds of thousands of words.
I never said there was no influence of latin or other romance languages. You're just blowing it up way out of proportions.
 
SpacePirate Ridley said:
Yes i had to go back after i posted, and im sorry but you are still completly wrong, even if a small (im sorry but its not significant) influence came from latin that doesnt make the language or country latin, bot even partly. Spain has also influence from arabic languages and culture and still a latin country.
Click to expand...

The influence Latin has on English is far, far more than influence Arabic has on Spanish.
 
Raist said:
is > ist

I > ich
Click to expand...

Is "to be" really from the German? Because its one of tjhe verbs that are irregular in every language, and the other forms are not close to English at all.

Ich Bin - German
Je Suis - French
Yo Soy - Spanish
Ego Eimi - Greek
I Am - English
Ego Sum - Latin


It seems closer to the greek etymology than the german to me.
 
Soph said:
Also guys "Romance" language is something we thought of today. It's not really a term at all, you're in the "Latin" language group or you're of Roman origin.. meaning you're from Rome.You can still practice romance though, but you do that with your lover, you don't talk romance.
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"Romance" is a fairly old term originally used to denote works written or spoken in vernacular descended from Latin as opposed to Latin itself. The modern definition of the word came about bacause Romance was often used for popular stories involving adventure and love while Latin was usually reserved for scholarly works.
 
MrNyarlathotep said:
Is "to be" really from the German? Because its one of tjhe verbs that are irregular in every language, and the other forms are not close to English at all.

Ich Bin - German
Je Suis - French
Yo Soy - Spanish
Ego Eimi - Greek
I Am - English
Ego Sum - Latin


It seems closer to the greek etymology than the german to me.
Click to expand...

That one's tricky because it seems to be a giant mess when conjugated. "to be" has a germanic root though.
 
I don't even know what people are arguing about. No, OP, Mario isn't Latino/Mexican. He's clearly Italian. And no, Latino doesn't mean "somebody from a country whose primary language is derived from Latin."
 
allan-bh said:
yeah, it's normal around the world people associate latinos as persons from South America, Central America and Mexico because that region is basically formed by spanish colonies.

But to be historically accurate, people from part of Europe are also latinos, just is not common to be called so.
Click to expand...

Not really, Latino is a relatively new American term used to refer to Southern-Americans, nothing historical about it. We don't really ever use it over here, we don't need to, just like we don't need the word Germano.

Our queen is from Southern-America and we've never referred to her as a Latina, we just refer to her as Argentinian.
 
Raist said:
That one's tricky because it seems to be a giant mess when conjugated. "to be" has a germanic root though.
Click to expand...

Its a mess to conjugate in every language, from a semiotics point of view its because its one of the cornerstones of linguistic identity.

I'm still not sure its Germanic in origin in English though; ist is close to is, but so is est.
Ich is very different to I phonetically, and so is am from bin, and "I am" is a first priciple statement linguistically.
 
MrNyarlathotep said:
Its a mess to conjugate in every language, from a semiotics point of view its because its one of the cornerstones of linguistic identity.

I'm still not sure its Germanic in origin in English though; ist is close to is, but so is est.
Ich is very different to I phonetically, and so is am from bin, and "I am" is a first priciple statement linguistically.
Click to expand...

From Middle English been (“to be”), from Old English bēon (“to be, become”), from Proto-Germanic *beuną (“to be, exist, come to be, become”), from Proto-Indo-European *bʰew- (“to grow, become, come into being, appear”). Cognate with West Frisian binne (“are”), Dutch ben (“am”), Low German bün ("am"), German bin (“am”), Old English būan (“to live, wone”). Irregular forms are inherited from the Old English verb wesan.
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Proto-germanic, fair enough :p
 
Art said:
Not really, Latino is a relatively new American term used to refer to Southern-Americans, nothing historical about it. We don't really ever use it over here, we don't need to, just like we don't need the word Germano.

Our queen is from Southern-America and we've never referred to her as a Latina, we just refer to her as Argentinian.
Click to expand...

For me this definition is unnecessary too. We don't call britains as Anglo Saxons, so why called people as latinos?

But americans like that and use wrongly.
 
Art said:
Not really, Latino is a relatively new American term used to refer to Southern-Americans, nothing historical about it. We don't really ever use it over here, we don't need to, just like we don't need the word Germano.

Our queen is from Southern-America and we've never referred to her as a Latina, we just refer to her as Argentinian.
Click to expand...

There is some jumps in logic there.

"We don't used it, is not a historical term. Is a new American term, never mind other contexts"
 
You raise some interesting points op. I think there could have been a number of reasons for the Latin influences and Mario's background probably wasn't decided until sometime before the push to 3d in Mario 64. I think maybe at one point Mario might have gone down the road to being Mexican rather than Italian but between Mario 3 and 64 they went all in in the Italian part and once he had the voice it was set in stone.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised on bit if Miyamoto based Mario's ethnicity once and for all once he found the "perfect" Mario voice. After all Mario only has one voice for the whole world so it had to be perfect and the voice actor who did the Italian accent (and probably came up with its-a-me! Mario!) was probably the best one so boom, Mario became Italian.


I wonder how it would have gone if a Hispanic pulled off an even better Mario voice, would he have been Hispanic instead? This is all speculation, Miyamoto probably wanted an Italian voice all along but it's my belief that the voice shaped Mario into what he is today.
 
Being part-Hispanic/Latino and part Native American, I can see how some think Mario CAN be Latino, while I still identify him as being Italian-inspired. While if we wanna debate whether he and Jumpman are one in the same(some actually debate this), the curvy mustache seems to scream Italian to me.

mario.jpg


But yeah, Latinos/Hispanic people have origins in both the native people of the Americas(who even to this day, a lot of the pure indigenous people inhabiting the rainforests of central and South America have that proto-Asian look to them; straight black hair, little to no facial hair) and Europe. The whole "naturally" curly hair and heavy facial hair(thick beards and mustaches) are European traits. I have curly brown hair(that has the habit of curling up like a type of hair you see in classical Greek or Roman statue; very Mediterranean), and a beard that's gingery blond. If there's any true connection between Latinos/Hispanics and Mario's inspiration, it's that we all have roots in the same areas of Europe(Mediterranean).
 
Soleil rouge said:
Spaghetti Westerns are Italian, but the majority were filmed in Spain because of it's similar vistas to the North American desert. However, Once Upon A Time In The West (movie you quoted) was actually filmed in North America, not Italy.
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Ah, I love Dario Argento, now I want to watch Suspiria again.

Anyway, I think a lot of people would be calling Nintendo and Mario racist if he was going around saying "Ay Caramba!" and "Madre de dios!" and dreaming about tacos and
instead of hitting blocks you hit pinatas and cilantro comes out, j/k, I'm dramatizing this greatly
funny theory though, reminds me of when I was a kid and thought Sega was balkan.
 
the Mario&Luigi series makes it pretty clear that the brothers are 100% italian

Phonetic evidence #1: "Ba-bipo di BApa"
 
Hasn't Miyamoto talked about an Italian landlord that Mario is based on?

Also there are "goombas" in Mario's universe.

And as brought up before his bro is named Luigi.
 
allan-bh said:
For me this definition is unnecessary too. We don't call britains as Anglo Saxons, so why called people as latinos?

But americans like that and use wrongly.
Click to expand...

TheBaronOfNA said:
There is some jumps in logic there.

"We don't used it, is not a historical term. Is a new American term, never mind other contexts"
Click to expand...

You can't say that America wrongly uses the word it created, that's just what it means over there. There seem to be a lot of Southern-Americans in the USA who use the term to describe their identity as well, Italians don't do that. Some countries may have adopted the word and changed its meaning, it's probably rarely used outside of the Americas though.

The majority of people probably use the word wrongly, even OP completely ignored the fact that Latino's can be white ethnically.
 
MagnaderAlpha said:
Just avoid his modern stuff like the plague. Classic through 1980s Argento is the BEST Argento!
Click to expand...

That is what I've heard. I tried watching one of his newer movies.. and it hurt.. I think partially its the modern production techniques don't blend well with his style of film making. Though I did hear his Hitchcock TV movie was pretty good.
 
nded said:
"Romance" is a fairly old term originally used to denote works written or spoken in vernacular descended from Latin as opposed to Latin itself. The modern definition of the word came about bacause Romance was often used for popular stories involving adventure and love while Latin was usually reserved for scholarly works.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right, but this still means you don't speak a "Romance" language. You speak a Latin language. As Romance books can also be written in German or Norse or even Chinese, while Latin books are always in Latin.
 
Soph said:
Absolutely right, but this still means you don't speak a "Romance" language. You speak a Latin language. As Romance books can also be written in German or Norse or even Chinese, while Latin books are always in Latin.
Click to expand...

Not sure I'm making myself clear. Romance or "Romanice" in its original form was specifically used to denote regional vernacular descended from vulgar Latin; it basically means "in the Roman manner". Its use in denoting literary style regardless of language came much later.
 
allan-bh said:
I know this definition is popular in United States and adopted by the government, but in essence is not correct.
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As long as there are communities in the US (because here it is were is mainly used) that identify themselves as such, and have been doing it for a couple of generations, it can never be incorrect anymore. If that's what they have chosen to call themselves, then we should respect that.
 
nded said:
Not sure I'm making myself clear. Romance or "Romanice" in its original form was specifically used to denote regional vernacular descended from vulgar Latin; it basically means "in the Roman manner". Its use in denoting literary style regardless of language came much later.
Click to expand...

Which I totally agree on, maybe I'm also not making myself clear. I'm merely stating that the current use of "Romance" as a word to differentiate the languages seems a bit silly, as there is a plethora of other uses for the word Romance which does not include languages. Latin however is the pure language which all the other Latin languages derived from, hence it's the obvious choice when referring to such languages.
 
Raist said:
Yes. Compared to hundreds of thousands of words.
I never said there was no influence of latin or other romance languages. You're just blowing it up way out of proportions.
Click to expand...

Found this one Wikipedia.
Very interesting

A computerised survey of about 80,000 words in the old Shorter Oxford Dictionary (3rd ed.) was published in Ordered Profusion by Thomas Finkenstaedt and Dieter Wolff (1973)[1] that estimated the origin of English words as follows:


Influences in English vocabularyLangue d'oïl, including French and Old Norman: 28.3%
Latin, including modern scientific and technical Latin: 28.24%
Germanic languages – inherited from Old English, from Proto-Germanic, or a more recent borrowing from a Germanic language such as Old Norse; does not include Germanic words borrowed from a Romance language, i.e., coming from the Germanic element in French, Latin or other Romance languages: 25%
Greek: 5.32%
No etymology given: 4.03%
Derived from proper names: 3.28%
All other languages: less than 1%

A survey by Joseph M. Williams in Origins of the English Language of 10,000 words taken from several thousand business letters gave this set of statistics:[2]
French (langue d'oïl): 41%
"Native" English: 33%
Latin: 15%
Old Norse: 5%
Dutch: 1%
Other: 5%[3]

Source
Finkenstaedt, Thomas; Dieter Wolff (1973). Ordered profusion; studies in dictionaries and the English lexicon. C. Winter
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Wonder if any knows of studies with more words.

Anyway this was my point according this study a significant proportion of the sampled words owe their origins to Latin or at least French ancestry
 
Soph said:
Which I totally agree on, maybe I'm also not making myself clear. I'm merely stating that the current use of "Romance" as a word to differentiate the languages seems a bit silly, as there is a plethora of other uses for the word Romance which does not include languages. Latin however is the pure language which all the other Latin languages derived from, hence it's the obvious choice when referring to such languages.
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It's fine if you think it's silly, but the term "Romance" as applied to languages based on Latin is definitely not just some recently cooked up nonsense as you seemed to imply in your original post. If anything is silly here, it's the fact that the word has gained amorous connotations in modern usage.
 
nded said:
It's fine if you think it's silly, but the term "Romance" as applied to languages based on Latin is definitely not just some recently cooked up nonsense as you seemed to imply in your original post. If anything is silly here, it's the fact that the word has gained amorous connotations in modern language.
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Aren't those origins pretty damn old. Less to do with love and more of the adventure context.

Supposedly according to dictionary.reference.com the French word romantique is from 1650.
 
Raist said:
But even with words, you're wrong. Just look at what you just typed. How many words in these sentences do you think are of latin origin?

That > Das
is > ist
What > was
I > ich
Said > gesagt (to say = sagen)
from > von
start > start

And so on and so forth.

It would be next to impossible for you to make a sentence in english that is mostly constructed on latin-based words. Yes, you can find many latin/french-based words in english. There were actually additions which in many many cases already had a germanic equivalent first, though.
Click to expand...

It woud be even more obvious if you included the closer Dutch and especially Frisian examples.

Here's your list but instead of the German the Dutch words:

That > Dat
is > is
What > Wat
I > ik
Said > gezegd (to say = zeggen)
from > van
start > start

And some more examples:

Where > Waar
Here > Hier
See > Zie
Saw > Zag
Saw > Zaag (the tool)



MrNyarlathotep said:
Its a mess to conjugate in every language, from a semiotics point of view its because its one of the cornerstones of linguistic identity.

I'm still not sure its Germanic in origin in English though; ist is close to is, but so is est.
Ich is very different to I phonetically, and so is am from bin, and "I am" is a first priciple statement linguistically.
Click to expand...

It is Germanic though: "From Middle English been (“to be”), from Old English bēon (“to be, become”), from Proto-Germanic *beuną (“to be, exist, come to be, become”), from Proto-Indo-European *bʰew- (“to grow, become, come into being, appear”). Cognate with West Frisian binne (“are”), Dutch ben (“am”), Low German bün ("am"), German bin (“am”), Old English būan (“to live, wone”). Irregular forms are inherited from the Old English verb wesan." - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/be#Etymology

As for the closeness of est and is (the Dutch word is "is" too), don't forget that both the Germanic and Latin languages are themselves part of the far larger Indo-European language family.
Compare for example:

Mother > Moeder (Dutch) > Mutter (German) > Mater (Latin) > Mâdar (Persian) > Mā́tṛ (Sanskrit)
Father > Vader (Dutch) > Vater (German) > Pater (Latin) > Pedar (Persian) > Pitṛ (Sanskrit)
 
Principate said:
Found this one Wikipedia.
Very interesting



Wonder if any knows of studies with more words.

Anyway this was my point according this study a significant proportion of the sampled words owe their origins to Latin or at least French ancestry
Click to expand...

Nevertheless the language itself, or in other words the heart and soul, it's core mechanics/principles are and always will be Germanic.
Many languages these days have loanwords from English, terms like computer and internet are almost universally adopted. The same was true for certain terms and notions in the day that Latin was the lingua franca of the world. They are adopted terms, enriching the language, they however do not constitute the heart and soul of the language.
 
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