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[Oblivion]

Inspired by the thread about the CVG thread.

PRE-EMPTIVE NOTE: THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAMES THEMSELVES NOR ABOUT WANTING MORE SEQUELS BUT RATHER NINTENDO'S MANAGEMENT OF SAID GAMES DEVELOPMENT

It's something that I've been thinking for a good while. While Zelda is a great series and a valuable asset to Nintendo, games like Mario Galaxy and SSBB should be higher in terms of importance. Yet both those games have only been started just recently, with a huge hiatus with their predecessors. It's been 4 years since Mario Sunshine came out, and 5 since SSBM came out. And Mario Galaxy, which should have been the flagship series wasn't even revealed with any fanfare, for goodness sake's! You would think that Nintendo would have their teams working on their 2biggest IPs right after one is finished, but that's not the case. Zelda (and Metroid I guess) seem to be the only exceptions. Seems management is really ****ed at Nintendo. And because of that, these games are now most likely delayed since they've obviously haven't had enough time to work on them (yes, I know it's a rumor, but would it be surprising?) I really would like to know the rationale behind such decisions.

 

[ZeromusMog]

as one friend to another, Oblivion, you really gotta lay off that shit man, it's bad for you. it makes you all paranoid.

 

[Cheeto]

Nintendo doesn't want to blow their whole wad in one quarter. They want to save some for the fall.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

I wouldn't be surprised if development on Mario was put aside until Miyamoto had just the right idea for what he wanted to do with it. For all the crap Nintendo gets for whoring out Mario, they take special care of the main games.

As for SSBB, wouldn't development of an SSBM sequel have been impeded by Sakurai's departure from the company?

 

[Neo_Dasus]

Why do you hate freedom Oblivion?

 

[Firestorm]

Uh, no? Super Smash Bros. should be a once a generation game. They should NOT be putting those out 2 or 3 per generation. It doesn't work that way. Especially considering its the brainchild of a guy who quit the company because he couldn't take the sequelization of his games any more. Kinda nice he's gonna work on it anyway though.

But seriously, if we had 2 or 3 SSBs per generation, there'd be absolutely no time to get into the deeper aspects of it. So much stuff that the developers put into the game would go unnoticed because people would be moving on to the newer game. There's a reason it takes so long between the Street Fighter series (I -> II -> III).

 

[Mashing]

If they didn't care, they'd release games as is without delays. The delays show that they DO care about their franchises.

 

[Oblivion]

Uh, no? Super Smash Bros. should be a once a generation game. They should NOT be putting those out 2 or 3 per generation. It doesn't work that way. Especially considering its the brainchild of a guy who quit the company because he couldn't take the sequelization of his games any more. Kinda nice he's gonna work on it anyway though.

But seriously, if we had 2 or 3 SSBs per generation, there'd be absolutely no time to get into the deeper aspects of it. So much stuff that the developers put into the game would go unnoticed because people would be moving on to the newer game. There's a reason it takes so long between the Street Fighter series (I -> II -> III).

No, you're not getting my point. I'm not asking for 2-3 SSB or Mario sequels per gen. I'm talking about the fact that they SHOULD have started development on the sequels right away (so that they could release them on time), instead of waiting years apparantly doing nothing.

 

[Avalon]

Quality not quantity.

Nintendo's first party developers always put out quality products and generally tend to live up to whatever hype they produce.

 

[Baker]

Who says they've been serious about the Zelda franchise since OOT?

Yes, I said it.

 

[Firestorm]

No, you're not getting my point. I'm not asking for 2-3 SSB or Mario sequels per gen. I'm talking about the fact that they SHOULD have started development on the sequels right away (so that they could release them on time), instead of waiting years apparantly doing nothing.

Well, Iwata is reluctant to give SSB to anyone but Sakurai, and Sakurai left HAL in 2003 and the reason was being forced to work on sequel after sequel. Considering Iwata requested for him to work on Brawl in person at E3 2005, I'd say there was no real way around it. Iwata says it was either Sakurai or we get Melee with an online mode added and no characters would be touched.

 

[ZeromusMog]

For a more serious response, Nintendo also wants third parties to develop for their system. Kind of hard to do if they continually pummel them with Nintendo releases.

 

[Oblivion]

Well, Iwata is reluctant to give SSB to anyone but Sakurai, and Sakurai left HAL in 2003 and the reason was being forced to work on sequel after sequel.

I understand that, and in that case it's somewhat understandable. But then it begs the question, what were they doing those first two years after Melee when Sakurai was still there?

 

[PiccoloCube]

but the time between SSB and SSBM was much smaller. at least another one should have been made for GC in 2004.

they couldn't because the main guy had quit in 2003.

if you want to see series that Nintendo doesn't give a damn anymore, see: F-Zero, Earthbound, Starfox, Kid Icarus, etc.

also, not hyping SMG at unveiling is not going to damage the game's popularity. the time where hype is worth to build up is upon release day.

 

[CajoleJuice]

Super Mario Galaxy is the game that the Wii was meant for. I will buy a Wii when it comes out. MARIOOOO

 

[muttyeah416]

Ugh, what's up with the increase of crappy discussion threads? yeah i know it's probably because of the next generation launches but really avoid starting a new thread everytime you think 'oh man i totally got this "new" opinion/philosophy on so and so game company"

 

[Luckett_X]

I was hoping/expecting Nintendo to have seriously expanded its first parties by this stage to really get moving on making more games using the several billion deep warchest as a means to expand. Because seeing the same titles roll out taking 3 years+ is painful to watch and wait for. All evidence points towards the same length of time if not more between big first party releases from Nintendo (more to prove this time round to make up for disappointing GC outings), which is very disappointing, except now we'll get mini-games and very casual orientated software. Great for them still making money, bad for anyone that really wants to see more utterly awesome Nintendo games.

Outsourcing console games last time around didnt work out well at all, but that seems to be okay for DS and 2d stuff (easier to stick to a design doc, less to go wrong, already solid mechanics and code to base from past iterations). I'm just surprised and disappointed we haven't seen a very large Nintendo first party expansion :/

 

[DemDereNads]

So you want the games right at launch, and then nothing for the next 4-5 years of the console's life? :/

Like everyone has said, SSB only needs one a generation, Mario could probably get in at least 2, but we already got Zelda... Save something for the rest of the console's life...

 

[Firestorm]

I understand that, and in that case it's somewhat understandable. But then it begs the question, what were they doing those first two years after Melee when Sakurai was still there?

Well, read this about Sakurai (Wikipedia) and think how he'd have reacted to having to work on SSBB starting in 2002 (SSBM hit stores in December 2001):

Sakurai's first experience in the video game industry began when he worked for HAL Laboratory, Inc. It is here that he created the character Kirby at the age of 19. He would soon direct his first title, Kirby's Dream Land.

Sakurai resigned from his position at HAL Laboratory, Inc. on August 5, 2003; Leading many to believe that the Kirby and, especially, the Super Smash Bros. series would cease to continue. Reasons for his departure are said to be because he was seeking more freedom and was not happy with the structure that was present at HAL Laboratory. Most of all, however, Sakurai grew tired of the sequelization of the industry and at HAL.[1][2]

"It was tough for me to see that every time I made a new game, people automatically assumed that a sequel was coming," said Masahiro Sakurai on August 26, 2003, in an interview with Nintendo Dream, two weeks after his resignation from HAL Laboratory. "Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally."

His resignation came just days after an interview where he openly criticized Nintendo for circumstances surrounding the development of the GameCube racer Kirby Air Ride. He has publicly stated that he wishes HAL to continue working on the Kirby series. It is known that Masahiro Sakurai has no resentment towards his past at HAL Laboratory, or his old characters. To this day, Sakurai's signature is a Kirby face.

Now remember that his team is responsible for both Kirby and Smash. Yeah, SSBB would not have gone over well with him. Especially considering the amount of time it takes to make Smash. This year, Sakurai has relocated to Tokyo (where the studio for SSBB is), suffered a mental breakdown (due to stress with the project), and locked himself up for months to work on the design document.

The reason that it takes so long between projects is because Nintendo takes serious care of them. Zelda's case is different because there are a lot of different teams who can make Zelda now. The Capcom teams, Anouma's team, and I think the Four Swords Adventure team who might have also made Minish Cap. Smash on the other hand is by one team who also does Kirby.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Doing this to entice third-parties to make games for them. If they pumped out the games, no third-party games would sell.

Honestly, if they had all those games lined up for release, every week, on the week, would you even buy a third-party game?

I know it sucks for us, as I would love to have all those games hitting on a flowing basis, but realism sets in, and it sucks.

 

[plagiarize]

Well, read this about Sakurai (Wikipedia) and think how he'd have reacted to having to work on SSBB starting in 2002 (SSBM hit stores in December 2001):



Now remember that his team is responsible for both Kirby and Smash. Yeah, SSBB would not have gone over well with him. Especially considering the amount of time it takes to make Smash. This year, Sakurai has relocated to Tokyo (where the studio for SSBB is), suffered a mental breakdown (due to stress with the project), and locked himself up for months to work on the design document.

The reason that it takes so long between projects is because Nintendo takes serious care of them. Zelda's case is different because there are a lot of different teams who can make Zelda now. The Capcom teams, Anouma's team, and I think the Four Swords Adventure team who might have also made Minish Cap. Smash on the other hand is by one team who also does Kirby.

four swords (GBA version) and minish cap were made by capcom. four swords adventure was one of nintendos teams i believe, though sharing some assets with four swords gba and minish cap.

 

[Oblivion]

Also, I don't agree with the "Oh, well third parties are scared of Nintendo games" argument. Couldn't the same be applied to any big name third party game on the other systems? They should be scared of having to compete with GTA4, Madden, etc. as well.

 

[Neomoto]

No, you're not getting my point. I'm not asking for 2-3 SSB or Mario sequels per gen. I'm talking about the fact that they SHOULD have started development on the sequels right away (so that they could release them on time), instead of waiting years apparantly doing nothing.

Mario "128".

Edit: Kind of funny that I see the google add "Does Jesus really matter?" when browsing this topic

 

[worldrunover]

With Mario I think it's an over exposure of the man himself; he's in EVERYTHING these days, and we all know it. That is probably Nintendo's excuse for not making more platformers; why, when you can play him as everything else under the sun? They continue to expand the IP without having to delve serious development time into a platform game that will be held up to ridiculous standards. Just a guess.

As for Metroid, it's never been that popular in Japan, and whether we'll admit it or not, typically Nintendo thinks of Japan first. I don't think they really put a high priority on Metroid.

Zelda is the one IP Nintendo has that is insanely popular and not over-exposed (like Mario or Pokemon). They are guarenteed hits, and the developers have a keen understanding of what to do with the franchise to keep it fresh and interesting (let's be fair; was it just me or did Nintendo really not know where to take Mario next after 64? I think they almost felt like they maxed him out in 3D platforming, hence the zillion different directions Sunshine took [from "Mario 64 2" onward] before landing home. And with the Wii now, maybe they can breathe unique life into it).

That's just my take on it. As for Star Fox, I weep single tears for it.

 

[Oblivion]

The reason that it takes so long between projects is because Nintendo takes serious care of them. Zelda's case is different because there are a lot of different teams who can make Zelda now. The Capcom teams, Anouma's team, and I think the Four Swords Adventure team who might have also made Minish Cap. Smash on the other hand is by one team who also does Kirby.

But the MAIN Zelda game's are handled by EAD. So that doesn't really apply here.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Also, I don't agree with the "Oh, well third parties are scared of Nintendo games" argument. Couldn't the same be applied to any big name third party game on the other systems? They should be scared of having to compete with GTA4, Madden, etc. as well.

Not even in the same ballpark. Nintendo has so many franchises that sell huge numbers, in so many genres, and the games that THEY produce are automatically hyped becuase its them, by thier fanbase puts third-parties at a massive disadvatage.

 

[Error]

Nintendo cares more for Smash Bros. than Zelda.

 

[thefro]

There is no dedicated team that just pumps out the same line of games at Nintendo, or at least wasn't until they did the EAD shakeup.

They've been doing Mario experiments for years. EAD Tokyo who is doing Galaxy was doing Jungle Beat until probably March of 2005. I assume many of the people who made Mario 64 and Sunshine are in the Zelda team now.

They set up a brand-new studio to do Brawl (HAL's done a couple DS games, and the Kirby Gamecube game which is development hell).

They're also doing a lot, lot more DS development than they did for GBA.

Granted, they're not doing as much as I'd hope to expand their first-party capabilities, but they are expanding EAD and NST quite substantially, and outsourcing stuff to third parties. And they put things into place pretty rapidly, considering they hadn't really settled on the final Wii technology until early 2005.

 

[Oblivion]

With Mario I think it's an over exposure of the man himself; he's in EVERYTHING these days, and we all know it. That is probably Nintendo's excuse for not making more platformers; why, when you can play him as everything else under the sun? They continue to expand the IP without having to delve serious development time into a platform game that will be held up to ridiculous standards. Just a guess.

But that only furthers my point. Since they have like a billion teams that they could outsource a Mario spinoff to, their main team should be free to put their entire focus on the real Mario games.

Not even in the same ballpark. Nintendo has so many franchises that sell huge numbers, in so many genres, and the games that THEY produce are automatically hyped becuase its them, by thier fanbase puts third-parties at a massive disadvatage.

I disagree still.

Nintendo cares more for Smash Bros. than Zelda.

Read my pre-emptive note in the OP.