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It has become nearly impossible for me to follow Marvel and DC comic books.

Nickolaidas

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Jan 18, 2019
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I’ve been reading Marvel Comics ever since I was a little boy. Spider-Man, Captain America, the Hulk, the X-Men, the Avengers ... all these were heroes I loved reading about, their clashes with their mortal enemies, and the trials they had to go through, which I absorbed and were helping me become a better person. Or at least, believe I was becoming one. After a while, I followed DC Comics as well, though not as intensely as I did with Marvel.

And I think most comic book fans born in the 80s (or even the 70s) will probably be able to sympathize with what I am about to say:

Aside from a few street-heroes like Spider-Man and Daredevil, I am mostly incapable of following the storylines of more otherworldly heroes, and completely incapable of following through the storylines of more obscure/niche characters these days.

Storylines were simpler. Dialogue and narration was easier. A bad guy was doing something or vexing the hero somehow, and it was up to him and his buddies to save the day. Simple plans, most of the time, but other times something spicier. Dialogue and narration was easy to follow and for things you have missed, there were detailed boxes which told you what happened and in what series/issue. Each character was unique and identifiable.

Now it’s a complete, utter clusterfuck.

Most major characters have like eight different versions of them. Batman has like, three Robins, one Nightwing, a Batwoman, a Batgirl, a Batboy ... and at least twenty versions of him from other realities and timelines (seriously, fuck the Multiverse). Almost all storylines are about characters stumbling upon themselves from other realities who storm in and cause a bruhaha, timelines converging, knock-off heroes, clones, duplicates ... it’s a fucking mess I just can’t follow.

Narration and dialogue have also advanced to the point I’m having a hard time understanding what is being said and whom it concerns. I was reading House of X (Power of X, don’t really remember) a limited series about the X-Men forming their own nation on Krakoa or something, and half of the dialogue is lost on me. There are so many innuendos and subtle hints about past events or people that I cannot understand what is really being said. Maybe I’m getting too old for this shit, maybe it’s because English isn’t my native language, but I recently downloaded all the old Amazing Spider-Man issues, and I was amazed at how simple and fun these old stories used to be. In the last ten years, however, it has been a whirlwind of stories which change the status quo so much and so fast that I cannot keep track. At all.

I have no idea how many Ghost Riders are active right now. There’s one in Hell, there’s one with the Avengers, there’s one who helped the Punisher take out Hydra and Zemo, there’s a cosmic Ghost Rider from the future who is actually Frank Castle ... it’s a fucking mess. And don’t get me started on Batman, Spider-Man, Venom and Superman. Spider-Man literally had an ‘events’ which were basically about him and other fifty Spider-Men (and women) fight vampires or some crap like that. And now even the movies begin to introduce the Multiverse. I HATE the fucking Multiverse!

I also hate how some writers ignore the past of a character and his evolution, and act as if nothing has happened with said character. Helmut Zemo had an amazing run in Thunderbolts and almost achieved godhood. Now he's a poor bastard who got wasted by the Punisher, of all people. A character who outwitted the Grandmaster got wasted by. The Fucking. Punisher. Do the writers have any idea who the character they're writing was in the past?

There was also a lot more stability in the choice of the artists. An artist would stick around to a series for 10 years back then, while now they jump from series to series like there’s no tomorrow. It’s impossible to invest in a comic book series because of the art - the artist will have left for another project within a year or less. You’ll be lucky to find an artist sticking with a project for two years or more.

I love comic books but I think my two favorite comic book companies have become too complicated for me to follow. Except for a handful of titles.

Anyone else who longs for the days comic books were simpler?
 
Feb 16, 2014
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I miss the days where comics didn't lecture you over liberal talking points such a climate change, white guilt, illegal immigration (or as they call it, immigration), "Islamophobia", etc. You know, that last one was recent so I'll touch on that. A phobia is an irrational fear, there's nothing irrational about hating a child raping imbred terrorist ideology that advocates the death of western civilization. I'm not afraid, I simply hate those fucks. But that's not the subject. The subject is - comics and SJWism, and my point is, I hate the SJWism.
 

Nymphae

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Honestly I've always felt that way about comics, it has always been difficult to fully comprehend the intricacies of what exactly is going on even just within one series, given how many cross overs and shit they've always done. If you didn't keep up to date, you could get lost quickly, and it was hard back then as a kid to read everything, shit it's probably even harder now. I don't keep up with it at all, but yeah it does sound like they've just been making this problem worse.
 

DESTROYA

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Jan 1, 2011
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Pretty spot on.
I stopped reading comics about 6 months ago and haven’t really missed it much.
like you I’ve been a reader for years but it’s no so much all the multiverse crap that I don’t care for ( I liked the Ultimate universe ) it’s like a few posters above mentioned all the SJWism .
I don’t want to get lectured reading a story just be entertained + back in the day I could roll into my local comic book shop and with $10-$20 walk away with a huge stack of new and used comics now days that’ll get you maybe 3-4 books.
 

Dazrael

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Dec 4, 2018
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There is too much encouragement from publishers to pick up many crossover books than have the one book with a complete story. It’s all about maximising sales and DC and Marvel try to force it on the punter. Civil War was the last crossover event I read and without getting every single book you would invariably be lost.

It’s happening with TV to an extent now with the Arrowverse. I find rather than just watch one series I have to watch all of them to follow an (admittedly) loosely tied storyline. With Arrow, The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow that’s roughly 60 episodes for one season. That a hell of a free time investment.

As for agendas I’ve been out of comics long enough now to be oblivious to what is happening. However Marvel always use to comment on issues of the day, not much has changed there.
 

cr0w

Old Member
Aug 31, 2015
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I was out after Maximum Carnage, Fatal Attractions, Knightfall and The Death/Return of Superman ushered in the constant mega-crossovers that required a damn spreadsheet to keep track of. One of those every year or so was fine, but EVERYTHING is a fucking event now, everything changes after them, and then goes back to status quo for a few months before the next Earth-shattering crossover changes everything.

I miss the days of Aparo, Breyfogle, Moench, Grant, Jurgens and Ordway, Bogdanove and Simonson and other creative teams that established a series and fucking stuck with it.
 

Nymphae

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Jun 3, 2013
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The Death/Return of Superman ushered in the constant mega-crossovers that required a damn spreadsheet to keep track of

I remember seeing the collected edition my friend had back in the day, and on the back it showed all of the covers from the different comic series that the Doomsday arc was featured in, it was discouraging to me back then, I felt like it was impossible to take part in these stories properly as they were occurring. I don't understand how they've ever expected kids to stay on top of a dozen different properties for which they needed to go buy physical things.
 

cr0w

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Aug 31, 2015
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I remember seeing the collected edition my friend had back in the day, and on the back it showed all of the covers from the different comic series that the Doomsday arc was featured in, it was discouraging to me back then, I felt like it was impossible to take part in these stories properly as they were occurring. I don't understand how they've ever expected kids to stay on top of a dozen different properties for which they needed to go buy physical things.

There was also the doubly shitty fact that they didn't really advertise the Justice League of America tie-in which was a pivotal issue in the story, so it was severely under-ordered and most people couldn't get their hands on it. They did the same thing with a Green Lantern tie-in during Reign of the Supermen, which shipped even fewer copies.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member

Did you read this OP? You aren't the only one.

:lollipop_content:
You have two choices here. Read the older stuff and not care about what happens "next" or read manga/manhwa.
 

Nickolaidas

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Jan 18, 2019
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Did you read this OP? You aren't the only one.

:lollipop_content:
You have two choices here. Read the older stuff and not care about what happens "next" or read manga/manhwa.
The funny thing is that I'm not bored with comics at all, it's just that I find the storylines overly complicated and the writing all over the place. Self-contained series like Daredevil or the Amazing Spider-Man (most of the time) are much more enjoyable. The last series I really enjoyed was the Superior Spider-Man, both the new and the old one. Octavius was a breath of fresh air and the last issue was truly amazing.
 
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Harlock

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Jul 6, 2011
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They are just flooding with trash. Look at DC comic list from the 70s printed in this reproduction (at 10:30). Was just a couple of super-heroes titles.

 
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KOMANI

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Nov 5, 2013
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No use following modern comics. Constant reboots and new #1s make it useless. DC was in better hands with Paul Levitz. Vertigo was still something back then. Just buy older books.
 

manfestival

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Nov 12, 2009
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OP I understand your sentiment. While the multiverse spiderman comic with the cosmic vampires was actually a pretty good story. I really do not care for how many spidermen there are. I do not like where things are. I get that both marvel and DC have attempted to change characters in the past but now it seems to be an over abundance of said character. I personally love the Green Lantern Corps but there are so many of them(only really Hal and John Stuart truly matter, Kyle sucks) to keep track of.. if you really wanted to that is. It is an overly convoluted mess now.
 

VulcanRaven

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I did read Spider-Man for many years and also bought old issues. I stopped reading soon after One More Day.

Imagine what it's like for those of us that never really started :messenger_fearful:

Where the fuck do you even begin.
Buy some collections of the old comics. Like Essential Spider-Man. Also you don't have to start from the beginning.
 

Hansel Coper

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Nov 12, 2018
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American Comics were never good.
Super Heroes comics were straight up trash.
I 'd reread a thousand time the first Tintin published a few decade earliers than any of the early superman stuff or the Dick Tracy Strip.
Sure there are a few outliers in there like Alan Moore's work, but I feel like even those (Watchmen, V for Vendetta) were overhyped.

Trust me, I read plenty of of American Comics; the Ultimate X-Men, Spider-Men, Fantastic 4, Kick Ass, The Goons, Sin City,
300, Technopriests, honestly, it's all very subpar plot wise and even art wise, it often falls flat on the long term (yes, even Frnak Miller`s work).

While there are a few American Graphic Novels worth reading (Maus) most of the American Comic Book scene is extremely disappointing, when I compare it to the European Scene, let's not even compare it to Mangas because Japanese make those stuff in leagues tremendously beyond what Westerners ever could.
 
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Ahjumbie

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While I haven't read comics in a while maybe it's time for a universe reboot. In the 80s DC was a nightmare . Everything was all over the place , characters on top of characters constantly in flux , had Superman sneezing freaking galaxies away and crap like that . Then Crisis on Infinite Earths happened and it all got reset (for the most part) . They run out of linear stories to tell and then start throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks ...or doesn't stick they don't care PUT IT IN! It gets to the point that even the hardest of core fans start to ???? like Comics Explained youtube channel , a guy who is very enthusiastic and knowledgeable, even in a quite a few of his videos he scratches his head and has no idea what is going on .

They give writers too much of a blank check to do what they want . In one comic Superman almost gets taken out by one earth missile nuclear explosion and in another he can withstand the force of 11 supernovas.
 
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NahaNago

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Aug 29, 2014
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I've give up following them and just buy what looks interesting to me but I think I'm going to quit buying the individual comics soon and just buy the books.
 

petran79

Banned
Sep 17, 2012
10,395
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American Comics were never good.
Super Heroes comics were straight up trash.
I 'd reread a thousand time the first Tintin published a few decade earliers than any of the early superman stuff or the Dick Tracy Strip.
Sure there are a few outliers in there like Alan Moore's work, but I feel like even those (Watchmen, V for Vendetta) were overhyped.

Trust me, I read plenty of of American Comics; the Ultimate X-Men, Spider-Men, Fantastic 4, Kick Ass, The Goons, Sin City,
300, Technopriests, honestly, it's all very subpar plot wise and even art wise, it often falls flat on the long term (yes, even Frnak Miller`s work).

While there are a few American Graphic Novels worth reading (Maus) most of the American Comic Book scene is extremely disappointing, when I compare it to the European Scene, let's not even compare it to Mangas because Japanese make those stuff in leagues tremendously beyond what Westerners ever could.

There are good usa comics outside superhero stuff but mostly unpromoted and known only by enthusiasts. Eg Charles Burns "Black Hole", Joe Sacco's comics (he was born in Malta) , Blankets etc and the legendary comic strip Calvin and Hobbes. I'd rate those together with the best manga or even above.

Black Hole has teen sex and nudity which would not sit well with many superhero comics publishers.
 

Gargus

Banned
Oct 1, 2018
2,053
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Honestly I quit caring about comic books in general about 8 years ago. I havent picked one up since then and I have 0 interest in ever doing so again. I just got tired of buying a comic and finishing it literally 90% of the time in less than 5 minutes. About that time also it seemed like the whole industry was just "throwing stuff against the wall to see what stuck" so youd have stories just allover the place and mostly were just forgotten. Or you had the big huge event stuff that turned everything upside down and at the 4th to last page in the final issue someone would show up with some mcguffin device that righted everything and it was done and forgotten.
 

Elcid

Banned
Jul 27, 2018
3,058
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I’ve been reading Marvel Comics ever since I was a little boy. Spider-Man, Captain America, the Hulk, the X-Men, the Avengers ... all these were heroes I loved reading about, their clashes with their mortal enemies, and the trials they had to go through, which I absorbed and were helping me become a better person. Or at least, believe I was becoming one. After a while, I followed DC Comics as well, though not as intensely as I did with Marvel.

And I think most comic book fans born in the 80s (or even the 70s) will probably be able to sympathize with what I am about to say:

Aside from a few street-heroes like Spider-Man and Daredevil, I am mostly incapable of following the storylines of more otherworldly heroes, and completely incapable of following through the storylines of more obscure/niche characters these days.

Storylines were simpler. Dialogue and narration was easier. A bad guy was doing something or vexing the hero somehow, and it was up to him and his buddies to save the day. Simple plans, most of the time, but other times something spicier. Dialogue and narration was easy to follow and for things you have missed, there were detailed boxes which told you what happened and in what series/issue. Each character was unique and identifiable.

Now it’s a complete, utter clusterfuck.

Most major characters have like eight different versions of them. Batman has like, three Robins, one Nightwing, a Batwoman, a Batgirl, a Batboy ... and at least twenty versions of him from other realities and timelines (seriously, fuck the Multiverse). Almost all storylines are about characters stumbling upon themselves from other realities who storm in and cause a bruhaha, timelines converging, knock-off heroes, clones, duplicates ... it’s a fucking mess I just can’t follow.

Narration and dialogue have also advanced to the point I’m having a hard time understanding what is being said and whom it concerns. I was reading House of X (Power of X, don’t really remember) a limited series about the X-Men forming their own nation on Krakoa or something, and half of the dialogue is lost on me. There are so many innuendos and subtle hints about past events or people that I cannot understand what is really being said. Maybe I’m getting too old for this shit, maybe it’s because English isn’t my native language, but I recently downloaded all the old Amazing Spider-Man issues, and I was amazed at how simple and fun these old stories used to be. In the last ten years, however, it has been a whirlwind of stories which change the status quo so much and so fast that I cannot keep track. At all.

I have no idea how many Ghost Riders are active right now. There’s one in Hell, there’s one with the Avengers, there’s one who helped the Punisher take out Hydra and Zemo, there’s a cosmic Ghost Rider from the future who is actually Frank Castle ... it’s a fucking mess. And don’t get me started on Batman, Spider-Man, Venom and Superman. Spider-Man literally had an ‘events’ which were basically about him and other fifty Spider-Men (and women) fight vampires or some crap like that. And now even the movies begin to introduce the Multiverse. I HATE the fucking Multiverse!

I also hate how some writers ignore the past of a character and his evolution, and act as if nothing has happened with said character. Helmut Zemo had an amazing run in Thunderbolts and almost achieved godhood. Now he's a poor bastard who got wasted by the Punisher, of all people. A character who outwitted the Grandmaster got wasted by. The Fucking. Punisher. Do the writers have any idea who the character they're writing was in the past?

There was also a lot more stability in the choice of the artists. An artist would stick around to a series for 10 years back then, while now they jump from series to series like there’s no tomorrow. It’s impossible to invest in a comic book series because of the art - the artist will have left for another project within a year or less. You’ll be lucky to find an artist sticking with a project for two years or more.

I love comic books but I think my two favorite comic book companies have become too complicated for me to follow. Except for a handful of titles.

Anyone else who longs for the days comic books were simpler?
100% agree. I wish they would do a hard reboot of both universes and go back to the core concepts but you know, with good writers.
 

Fbh

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Dec 6, 2013
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My problem with comics has always been the multiple version and dimensions and reboots which sort of give a lack of finality to everything.
I guess I see the appeal of seeing multiple versions of your favorite superhero and his companions/enemies, and I'm also aware they almost have to do that sort of stuff to keep telling stories with the same characters even after 60, 70 or 80 years. But I've always preferred the more linear approach of manga and book.

Want to read Full Metal Alchemist? It's 27 Volumes, read them in order and that's it. Even stuff that has been going on forever like Berserk, just start from chapter 1 and keep reading until you have caught up, that's it.

But you want to read Batman and there's like 5 different versions, and all of his sidekicks and stuff from crossover events. And then something shocking might happen like, I don't know, Gordon kills Bruce or something but a year later it will be rebooted or they'll just start a new run which is basically an alternate universe so who cares?
 
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Elcid

Banned
Jul 27, 2018
3,058
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My problem with comics has always been the multiple version and dimensions and reboots which sort of give a lack of finality to everything.
I guess I see the appeal of seeing multiple versions of your favorite superhero and his companions/enemies, and I'm also aware they almost have to do that sort of stuff to keep telling stories with the same characters even after 60, 70 or 80 years. But I've always preferred the more linear approach of manga and book.

Want to read Full Metal Alchemist? It's 27 Volumes, read them in order and that's it. Even stuff that has been going on forever like Berserk, just start from chapter 1 and keep reading until you have caught up, that's it.

But you want to read Batman and there's like 5 different versions, and all of his sidekicks and stuff from crossover event. And then something shocking might happen like, I don't know, Gordon kills Bruce or something but a year later it will be rebooted or they'll just start a new run which is basically an alternate universe so who cares?
Exactly this. Too many retcons and dimensions. They need a HARD reboot with 1 world, and 1 continuity. No more fucking retcons.
 
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DeafTourette

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There's some good stand-alone comics out there. Raising Dion is one that I really like ... It was recently adapted into a TV show on Netflix.

The Boys is kinda stand-alone. Also turned into a show on Amazon Prime Video. Multiple volumes but it's run came to an end so you'll more or less get the whole story.
 

KOMANI

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Exactly this. Too many retcons and dimensions. They need a HARD reboot with 1 world, and 1 continuity. No more fucking retcons.
That’s not going to work and hasn’t. DC was fine with their pre-Crisis Earth 1 and Earth 2 and the same goes with Marvel and their Ultimate universe. You need one Universe that doesn’t change too much and the other to experiment with.