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[WrikaWrek]

Sad to see RARE being butchered and turned into...some shovelware studio,

 

[Sydle]

I'm starting to feel the same way. Is anyone from the golden days even still around?

Most of the game directors from the 90's are still there, but they seem to have lost their touch. I think it has more to do with the absence of Nintendo controlling every aspect of their games. Microsoft just doesn't run as tight a ship, and they just don't understand much outside the Halo audience.

 

[Peff]

Source? After the first one not doing so well in sales, I thought they'd not make another N&B.

Hm, can't find it right now (it was an insider posting in a forum, nothing official of course) but it's not so strange. Natal Fit and Sports are all but confirmed and they hinted at a Banjo sequel before the release and in the ending of the game. Plus Viva Piñata got one despite selling poorly too. Also, it probably was just prototype and design work at that poinjt considering the cancellation allegedly took place shortly after the release of Nuts & Bolts. The painful thing about it is that we never got to see what the mix of Kazooie's abilities and vehicles would be like.

 

[Shadowlink]

Hm, can't find it right now (it was an insider posting in a forum, nothing official of course) but it's not so strange. Natal Fit and Sports are all but confirmed and they hinted at a Banjo sequel before the release and in the ending of the game. Plus Viva Piñata got one despite selling poorly too. Also, it probably was just prototype and design work considering the cancellation allegedly took place a few months after the release of Nuts & Bolts. The painful thing about it is that we never got to see what the mix of Kazooie's abilities and vehicles would be like.

I thought it sold 1 million + in the long run?

 

[Rad-]

Most of the game directors from the 90's are still there, but they seem to have lost their touch. I think it has more to do with the absence of Nintendo controlling every aspect of their games. Microsoft just doesn't run as tight a ship, and they just don't understand much outside the Halo audience.

The talent is still there (their games still feel nice and quality, for example, their engine is awesome) but it feels like their projects have just lacked direction. They need someone who knows what 360 owners want and can make their ideas sellable. I thought they would turn the Molynator into such figure but based on interviews, he seems to be just a background guy for Rare.

I thought it sold 1 million + in the long run?

It sold almost 1 million according to Rare. More if you include bundles.

 

[Sydle]

I thought it sold 1 million + in the long run?

Last I read is that Kameo and Viva Pinata were nearing 1 million sold each. Didn't hear anything about them going over.

 

[Peff]

I thought it sold 1 million + in the long run?

With bundles, yep They also spent a lot more money in marketing with that 4Kids series.

 

[Shadowlink]

Last I read is that Kameo and Viva Pinata were nearing 1 million sold each. Didn't hear anything about them going over.

Did N&B pass 300k yet? Last I heard, it was around 200k. Viva Pinata nearing 1 million is probably why they decided to make a sequel.

 

[Sydle]

The talent is still there (their games still feel nice and quality, for example, their engine is awesome) but it feels like their projects have just lacked direction. They need someone who knows what 360 owners want and can make their ideas sellable. I thought they would turn the Molynator into such figure but based on interviews, he seems to be just a background guy for Rare.



It sold almost 1 million according to Rare. More if you include bundles.

You're right, all of their 360 games do feel good. Makes me wonder why they didn't create just another platform game (Banjo), another 3rd-person action game (JFG), and another fighting game (KI). Jet Force Gemini 2 especially seemed like a no-brainer. Naughty Dog and Insomniac do just fine without even attempting to innovate, not sure why Rare couldn't do the same.

Did N&B pass 300k yet? Last I heard, it was around 200k. Viva Pinata nearing 1 million is probably why they decided to make a sequel.

I didn't follow up on it after its abysmal opening weekend.

 

[Shadowlink]

You're right, all of their 360 games do feel good. Makes me wonder why they didn't create just another platform game (Banjo), another 3rd-person action game (JFG), and another fighting game (KI). Jet Force Gemini 2 especially seemed like a no-brainer. Naughty Dog and Insomniac do just fine without even attempting to innovate, not sure why Rare couldn't do the same.

They didn't want to make a Banjo platformer because they didn't want to "copy" Nintendo or something like that.

I didn't follow up on it after its abysmal opening weekend.

I remember seeing around 200k in sales in the NPD.

 

[Yoshi]

I hope, MS doesn't kill Rare with all these strange things going on. If they don't know what to do with Rare, they should sell Rare (preferrably to Nintendo, although I somehow doubt they'd want Rare back). I love Rare's N64 games and their 360 games show that there's a whole lot of talent left in Rare, but having released 0 games in 2009, having no games announced, having a bunch of promising sequels canceled and most likely working on Wii * rip-offs, I'm really worried about their future .

 

[Buckethead]

Who would have thought that Rare would be reduced to rubble when Nintendo let them go.
Kudos to Nintendo, really, as sad as it is to say.

A tleast they can make the ugly PDZ style characters in the Avatar Marketplace now and keep them far, far away from Joanna Dark and further soiling her legacy.

 

[Sydle]

They didn't want to make a Banjo platformer because they didn't want to "copy" Nintendo or something like that.

I remember seeing around 200k in sales in the NPD.

Did a Rare rep or Microsoft rep say that?

Probably did around 300k WW.

 

[Bluemercury]

well, its a corpse and is using Perfect Dark 64 in xla as a life supporting machine it seems...

 

[Shadowlink]

Did a Rare rep or Microsoft rep say that?

Probably did around 300k WW.

I wonder if they ever make another Banjo, will it be like N&B or a Platformer. Anyone know the sales of the XBLA Banjo games?

 

[ShogunX]

Week. TIP. Non-stop.

My existence happily invalidates your post.

High Five. Trouble In Paradise is an amazing game full of the goodness of the so called ''old Rare''. The way I see it is Rare are still are quality studio and can still produce great games - Banjo Nuts and Bolts despite not being what a number of people wanted was technically pretty amazing. The problem is not Rare but MS, There's so many good Rare games of old just begging for a HD release such as Battletoads, Jet Force Gemini, Killer Instinct and Conker.

MS have taken a lot of stick for the lack of exclusive titles and the fact that they don't seem to utilise there first party studios enough so please give Rare their creative freedom back and lets see some quality games released - Fuck the XBLA shite as well we want full retail.

 

[donny2112]

If they don't know what to do with Rare, they should sell Rare (preferrably to Nintendo, although I somehow doubt they'd want Rare back).

Nintendo wouldn't take them on. Nintendo wouldn't take them fully 1st-party when RARE offered in 2002, so there's no way they would take them in 2009. Nintendo would've been much better off if RARE had been fine to keep the status quo instead of wanting to be wholly owned, but that wasn't what the Stamper Bros. wanted. C'est la vie.

Spoiler

Nintendo needs a new RARE. No idea where that kind of studio could come from at this point, though. Maybe if Sakurai's studio got much bigger or something.

 

[Shiggy]

Nintendo wouldn't take them fully 1st-party when RARE offered in 2002, so there's no way they would take them in 2009. Nintendo would've been much better off if RARE had been fine to keep the status quo instead of wanting to be wholly owned, but that wasn't what the Stamper Bros. wanted.

Nintendo didn't want to buy them for the price Hochberg and the Stampers offered. Who knows whether they would've bought them for a million USD?
In addition, I get the impression that it was especially Joel Hochberg who wanted to sell his share. The Stampers remained in the company until Microsoft finally edged them out. However, we haven't heard anything of Joel Hochberg since the announcement of the Rare acquisition.

Regarding the management decisions, those were somewhat fishy during the last decade as seen with constant delays, a dozen of projects cancelled and the teamwork in general. Brian Marshall was said to be doing quite a good job with PDZ during the GameCube time but he was not meant to stay there because of another team member (the husband of a Stamper sister huh).

 

[Sydle]

High Five. Trouble In Paradise is an amazing game full of the goodness of the so called ''old Rare''. The way I see it is Rare are still are quality studio and can still produce great games - Banjo Nuts and Bolts despite not being what a number of people wanted was technically pretty amazing. The problem is not Rare but MS, There's so many good Rare games of old just begging for a HD release such as Battletoads, Jet Force Gemini, Killer Instinct and Conker.

MS have taken a lot of stick for the lack of exclusive titles and the fact that they don't seem to utilise there first party studios enough so please give Rare their creative freedom back and lets see some quality games released - Fuck the XBLA shite as well we want full retail.

XBLA is awesome. I would love to see Rare release a 2D platform game on it.

LOL, as I was typing this the Nuts & Bolts credit tune came up on my mp3 player.

 

[open_mouth_]

Natal Sports
Natal Fit
Live Arcade Game
Perfect Dark 2

that's probably the most we could expect from Rare in the next 12-18 months, if that. Let's just hope each of those are million+ type sellers or Rare will become "extremely rare" if you know what I mean

 

[Sydle]

Natal Sports
Natal Fit
Live Arcade Game
Perfect Dark 2

that's probably the most we could expect from Rare in the next 12-18 months, if that. Let's just hope each of those are million+ type sellers or Rare will become "extremely rare" if you know what I mean

Have Natal Fit and Natal Sports been confirmed, or are people just making a safe guess?

 

[ShogunX]

XBLA is awesome. I would love to see Rare release a 2D platform game on it.

LOL, as I was typing this the Nuts & Bolts credit tune came up on my mp3 player.

Your right XBLA is awesome but if given the choice I would much prefer to see Rare release a few retail games. We have had Banjo 1+2, Jetpac and the upcoming Perfect Dark all on XBLA so its about time we see one of Rare classics brought back from the dead.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Natal Sports
Natal Fit
Live Arcade Game
Perfect Dark 2

that's probably the most we could expect from Rare in the next 12-18 months, if that. Let's just hope each of those are million+ type sellers or Rare will become "extremely rare" if you know what I mean

Bahhh, I don't care about any of those except PD2, and who even knows if they'll be able to pull that off. I miss N64 Rare.

 

[clashfan]

Natal Sports
Natal Fit
Live Arcade Game
Perfect Dark 2

that's probably the most we could expect from Rare in the next 12-18 months, if that. Let's just hope each of those are million+ type sellers or Rare will become "extremely rare" if you know what I mean

Is there any confirmation pd2 is on the works?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Guys... I don't think Perfect Dark 2 is ever going to happen.

In the latest GamesTM, they have an interview with people at Rare who say they want to create new IPs with Natal... and only work with their old franchises if it feels 'right'.

To me... it's been 4 years since PDZ... that team obviously ain't working on a sequel now.

 

[[Nintex]]

Is there any confirmation pd2 is on the works?

All we know is that PDZ2 got canned. Seriously if all these Rare projects remained on track MS's first party output would be much better. I think MS doesn't want to compete with their own games like Halo so there's a fat chance that Rare will ever get the fps crown back. Unless they're building something brilliant with Perfect Dark Natal.

 

[Buckethead]

Spoiler

Nintendo needs a new RARE. No idea where that kind of studio could come from at this point, though. Maybe if Sakurai's studio got much bigger or something.

They do have a new Rare, they're called "Retro Studios" and located in Texas.
The problem is, Nintendo is doing what Nintendo does best: getting in the way of Nintendo.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

They do have a new Rare, they're called "Retro Studios" and located in Texas.
The problem is, Nintendo is doing what Nintendo does best: getting in the way of Nintendo.

That's not really a new Rare since Retro Studios is a first party studio (i.e, they are Nintendo) Rare was a seperate company with a very different philosophy to Nintendo's developers.

Nintendo tried to fill the gap with Silicon Knights, N-space and Factor 5 back in the GCN era, but that didn't really pan out in the end (Despite how awesome Eternal Darkness turned out)

 

[soco]

With bundles, yep They also spent a lot more money in marketing with that 4Kids series.

what makes you think they paid money for that?

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Why not integrate Rare into Lionhead studios?

 

[[Nintex]]

Why not integrate Rare into Lionhead studios?

Because Nintendo once build them a very very expensive HQ that Microsoft bought.

 

[:enemyglider:]

RARE fell off a cliff over 10 years ago. They peaked during the N64 era and never could adjust after being purchased by Microsoft.

Time to stop hoping for some great revival, if their recent track record is anything to go by, the only thing you can realistically expect is for them to get worse, sadly. I haven't enjoyed a single game of theirs in over a decade.

EDIT: and Rare working on a 'tight schedule' is a very, very bad thing. The best RARE games were notorious for their delays, and their worst products were always rushed. This is a DEV that needs time to create greatness.

 

[donny2112]

They do have a new Rare, they're called "Retro Studios" and located in Texas.

Unfortunately, not even close. Maybe they could've been if bad management (on the U.S. side) hadn't forced the canceling of all games save Metroid Prime, but that didn't happen. RARE's output was much more diverse and impactful (at least on Nintendo systems) than what Retro has done with Metroid Prime alone.

Edit:
Now if Retro were to greatly expand and start averaging 1-2 games per year, that might change.

 

[Yoshi]

EDIT: and Rare working on a 'tight schedule' is a very, very bad thing. The best RARE games were notorious for their delays, and their worst products were always rushed. This is a DEV that needs time to create greatness.

Not neccessarily. Diddy Kong Racing wasn't delayed and turned out great, Banjo-Kazooie wasn't delayed all too much either and is their best game ever imo. Even though I don't know this for sure, I'd bet, DKC2 wasn't delayed either, as DKC came late in SNES' lifetime and they wouldn't have gotten to a third game this way - and that's their only really great 2D platformer ^^.

 

[bon]

They didn't want to make a Banjo platformer because they didn't want to "copy" Nintendo or something like that.

I remember seeing around 200k in sales in the NPD.

I read that they were going to make a regular Banjo platformer at first, but it felt forced so they decided to take it in a different direction. Don't remember if that was in Scribes or an interview (possibly both).

 

[soco]

RARE fell off a cliff over 10 years ago. They peaked during the N64 era and never could adjust after being purchased by Microsoft.

this is such a surprise coming from you! with such an insightful and elegant post history, i'm sure your future here is bright!

 

[Domino Theory]

I wonder if they ever make another Banjo, will it be like N&B or a Platformer. Anyone know the sales of the XBLA Banjo games?

A Banjo platformer using the Nuts and Bolts Engine, PLEASE, RARE.

 

[Shiggy]

All we know is that PDZ2 got canned. Seriously if all these Rare projects remained on track MS's first party output would be much better. I think MS doesn't want to compete with their own games like Halo so there's a fat chance that Rare will ever get the fps crown back. Unless they're building something brilliant with Perfect Dark Natal.

Some PDZ guys went to Bungie and then Rare also worked on Halo 3 (do we know what they've really done on that game?). In addition, their PD2/mech title (I can't really make it out from the videos into what it evolved) was cancelled. So you're probably right, there won't be a new PD anytime soon.

 

[soco]

Some PDZ guys went to Bungie and then Rare also worked on Halo 3 (do we know what they've really done on that game?). In addition, their PD2/mech title (I can't really make it out from the videos into what it evolved) was cancelled. So you're probably right, there won't be a new PD anytime soon.

if you're referring to the H3 credits reference, i'm betting it's just sharing of different tech/tools between the MS-owned devs.

 

[Shiggy]

if you're referring to the H3 credits reference, i'm betting it's just sharing of different tech/tools between the MS-owned devs.

Well, from what I have heard they were also involved in animation and pre-visualisation of cutscenes. It could always be that Bungie didn't have enough staff or that Rare just did not need all of their staff during that time. It's pretty common at MGS, they also "share" concept artists when needed.

 

[[Nintex]]

The biggest shock for me was that David Wise left Rare. Just not that he left, also his wording.

"I think the business of Rare has changed a great deal, and at the moment there is just not the opportunity to create the soundtracks that Rare were fortunately very famous for."

So no more room for Perfect Dark, Banjo and Conker soundtracks?

 

[polyh3dron]

Hey add me to the room, I care too!!!

 

[ZeoVGM]

The biggest shock for me was that David Wise left Rare. Just not that he left, also his wording.



So no more room for Perfect Dark, Banjo and Conker soundtracks?

I was holding out hope for DKC4 for DS for a few years.

I'll stop now.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

RARE fell off a cliff over 10 years ago. They peaked during the N64 era and never could adjust after being purchased by Microsoft.

Time to stop hoping for some great revival, if their recent track record is anything to go by, the only thing you can realistically expect is for them to get worse, sadly. I haven't enjoyed a single game of theirs in over a decade.

EDIT: and Rare working on a 'tight schedule' is a very, very bad thing. The best RARE games were notorious for their delays, and their worst products were always rushed. This is a DEV that needs time to create greatness.

So, explain to me, from your gameplay experience, the ways in which Trouble In Paradise is not a fantastic game, in order to fully and accurately explain my purported bad taste.

I can wait. I'll just play some more while I wait. There's levels higher than 92 you know, and I still haven't got a Hippo.

 

[grandjedi6]

The biggest shock for me was that David Wise left Rare. Just not that he left, also his wording.

So no more room for Perfect Dark, Banjo and Conker soundtracks?

Yeah, its pretty obvious the direction Rare has been forced to take. Its always frustrating to see Microsoft kill every developer they touch :/

 

[senahorse]

RARE fell off a cliff over 10 years ago. They peaked during the N64 era and never could adjust after being purchased by Microsoft.

Time to stop hoping for some great revival, if their recent track record is anything to go by, the only thing you can realistically expect is for them to get worse, sadly. I haven't enjoyed a single game of theirs in over a decade.

Opinions are like assholes...

I, along with a lot of other people loved games like Kameo, Viva Pinata and Banjo N&B, sorry you couldn't enjoy them.

 

[Future PhaZe]

All it would take to relaunch Rare would be a quality Perfect Dark 2.

Won't happen though.

 

[QuadCore]

David Wise leaving means the studio is officially dead. It's time for people to accept this and move on.

 

[MCD]

did david wise even work on anything rare did recently?

in any case, if rare is just gonna do natal shit then good for them, maybe they can finally make some money but no hardcore games, no support from me.

 

[Hero of Legend]

did david wise even work on anything rare did recently?

in any case, if rare is just gonna do natal shit then good for them, maybe they can finally make some money but no hardcore games, no support from me.

I think it's a fact that he never did a single MS console game, he was exclusively working on the Nintendo handheld games, I'm shocked that MS let him do that since he was obviously one of the more important folks there.

Only tiiiiiiiiiiny exception could be his possible involvement in Sabreman Stampede after it was changed from Donkey Kong Racing. I'm not 100% sure if it was official that he was composing for it after the facelift.