So yeah, Itagaki has openly written on Facebook how he feels about Lisa having a much lighter skin colour than in previous Games. He even goes that far and calls it discrimination. What do you Guys think about that?
Other quotes by him from the comments
His Post on Facebook
Lisa is not that bright in DOA5. Someone went crazy on the lighting or something.
This is definitely more accurate and it looks fine to me.
Looks to me like she just got a tan. Why would being evil give you a tan, I don't know, but she probably didn't see much sun in her temple or wherever.
I wonder if turning evil giving you a tan is a trope of sorts.
The only other example that comes to mind is Kingdom Hearts, where exposure to darkness leads to tanned skin (hence the cloaks, for protection).
Her skin color on the right is very misleading. This is what she actually looks like in the game
I don't know this since I don't have DOA5, but as i said before, I just used the Picture Itagaki used himself. I couldn't have known the heck himself isn't up to date
This man needs to lean that there are many shades of delicious brown skin. 90% of the females I create in games have brown skin soo many options all amazing!
I'm questioning if this is something that should be taken as seriously as people are taking it. I don't really know Itagaki or his level of decorum, and maybe it's just my insistent denial that 'professionals' shouldn't bother using lEEt, but the way he's acting make's me either amused or wary that there's a serious angle to this...
LOL at people thinking thats supposed to be a tan
Might be an idea to add the other comparison pics with context, because people are coming in and seeing just the OP image, which is a bad example. They can make up their own minds when they see the other pics, then.
That's a bad comparison pic. Those shots looked cherry picked to be under conditions and quality that make them look as similar as possible if you ask me. I can definitely see a difference in skin ton in other mediums.
So the argument now is "there's whitening, but is not as pronounced as Itagaki said!"?
At least is not the "he's just jealous" from the first pages.
Difference in character model from 2 different games with different engines.
The VF pic is an extreme case and DOA isn't near that point.
And yeah , itagaki doesn't make sense, here a simple google search would have tell him the truth . The picture he has used as an argument is FALSE ...and he keep talking about a franchise where he doesn't have any control on... since months .
Conclusion: "he's damn bitter"
Difference in character model from 2 different games with different engines.
The VF pic is an extreme case and DOA isn't near that point.
And yeah , itagaki doesn't make sense, here a simple google search would have tell him the truth . The picture he has used as an argument is FALSE ...and he keep talking about a franchise where he doesn't have any control on... since months .
Conclusion: "he's damn bitter"
Looks to me like she just got a tan. Why would being evil give you a tan, I don't know, but she probably didn't see much sun in her temple or wherever.
Actually , much can change depending on the amount of effects used. So yeah i'll stick to what i know. /sAn engine isn't going to change the skin color of a character, that is up to the texturer of the 3D artist. So in other words, someone told them to make her lighter, there is no bitterness from him. Maybe you should stick to something you actually know about.
Sorry, I don't buy that, even in different cases the whitening is there. I think that's undeniably true.
Blaming it to "engines" is silly. Is clearly an "artistic" choice.
Then you must not notice a lot of things. In a lot of media white is good black is evil.I never knew that. Interesting. Radiation maybe, lol.
Anyway, not that I get it, but I see it as a Japanese trope, and not racism.
Her skin color on the right is very misleading. This is what she actually looks like in the game
So the argument now is "there's whitening, but is not as pronounced as Itagaki said!"?
At least is not the "he's just jealous" from the first pages.
Sorry, I don't buy that, even in different cases the whitening is there. I think that's undeniably true.
Blaming it to "engines" is silly. Is clearly an "artistic" choice.
Actually , much can change depending on the amount of effects used. So yeah i'll stick to what i know. /s
Oh and anyone following the DOA news will know that he is bitter.. again ..i don't even see how that can be debated. /s.
You can buy whatever you want, but it just isn't true. This is not whitening. DOA5 has more advance skin filters, texturing, and lighting. If the comparison ran in the same game environment as eachother there'd be a case.
I wonder if Lisa's older models are on the net, then I could bring it along with her DOA5 model and put them in the same situation and compare, but her old models textures would still be plain and less detailed.
This is such a cool fucking picture for reference when it comes to character design. Thanks for posting! My GF is already using it. lolThis man needs to lean that there are many shades of delicious brown skin. 90% of the females I create in games have brown skin soo many options all amazing!
Yup. Skin colour's the ooooonly thing to get upset about in DOA's portrayal of women. Sigh.
(not aimed at you, Solidsnakex - this is just a general comment).
Actually , much can change depending on the amount of effects used. So yeah i'll stick to what i know. /s
Oh and anyone following the DOA news will know that he is bitter.. again ..i don't even see how that can be debated. /s
I'm not saying that no change was made. change like this happen. was it really possible to have the same skin effect on everyone given the changes that happenned during those 2 games ? i doubt it. You see whitening, i don't see it
Again :
So much for White....
This is such a cool fucking picture for reference when it comes to character design. Thanks for posting! My GF is already using it. lol
My guess, evil= darkness, hence skin turns darker (eg akuma and e. ryu)I wonder if turning evil giving you a tan is a trope of sorts.
The only other example that comes to mind is Kingdom Hearts, where exposure to darkness leads to tanned skin (hence the cloaks, for protection).
Actually you have no idea what you are talking but I'll let you live in la la land if you want to. Effects aren't going to change a characters skin color. We ported our project to 3 different engines with different varying effects and it never changed the skin tone of any of our characters.
Yes lets damn a man who actually cares about something he created. In a time where developers don't give a damn about what happens to their IPs, lets condemn someone who actually gives a rats ass.
We work with different skin textures on different engines, it is NOT going to change a characters color unless the artist wants it to. The supposedly new engine should have made it more accurate which it hasn't. So you can keep believing that nonsense if youwant to.
I'm sorry, who are you? What project? I'm afraid you lost me there. This IS a matter of improved graphics and nothing more, they didn't white wash her. Also Itagaki doesn't give a rats ass about this for any other reason than an excuse where he can bitch about DOA games not developed by him and look good doing it. Blows my mind how many people are taking him seriously.
The act of white-washing is a serious issue and is something that needs to stop, but it is just something Itagaki is proclaiming as a shield to bitch about DOA5 and Lisa has not even been white-washed.
So you're telling me thatActually you have no idea what you are talking but I'll let you live in la la land if you want to. Effects aren't going to change a characters skin color. We ported our project to 3 different engines with different varying effects and it never changed the skin tone of any of our characters.
That man should care about his current projects , not an IP he has no rights to.Yes lets damn a man who actually cares about something he created. In a time where developers don't give a damn about what happens to their IPs, lets condemn someone who actually gives a rats ass.
We work with different skin textures on different engines, it is NOT going to change a characters color unless the artist wants it to. The supposedly new engine should have made it more accurate which it hasn't. So you can keep believing that nonsense if youwant to.
Yeah, because she's a real person that actually just spent more time outside and an artist totally didn't decide to make her skin darker for her evil character model.
THESE ARE FICTIOUS CHARACTERS! EVERY PART OF THEIR APPEARANCE IS A CHOICE MADE BY AN ARTIST, NOT THE ARBITRAY RESULT OF SOME CIRCUMSTANCE OF THEIR NONEXISTENT LIVES.
Then you must not notice a lot of things. In a lot of media white is good black is evil.
Let me give you an example of this: ying yang symbol. Another example the light side vs the dark side of the force. Lights is good dark is evil.
So no you only need to extend your media to see it is not a Japanese.
Let me give you an example of this: ying yang symbol. Another example the light side vs the dark side of the force. Lights is good dark is evil.
Each time I open a Gaf thread I learn something new.I thought her design was based on the Ganguro style.
As someone who is black, that reasoning is completely valid. Darkness representing evil, fear, etc. and light representing good, purity, etc. is a notion that has existed since the beginning. It's not something that has anything to do with race. There's a reason goth people are associated with jet black hair and dark makeup.Of course someone would try to justify it.
I'm sorry, who are you? What project? I'm afraid you lost me there. This IS a matter of improved graphics and nothing more, they didn't white wash her. Also Itagaki doesn't give a rats ass about this for any other reason than an excuse where he can bitch about DOA games not developed by him and look good doing it. Blows my mind how many people are taking him seriously.
The act of white-washing is a serious issue and is something that needs to stop, but it is just something Itagaki is proclaiming as a shield to bitch about DOA5 and Lisa has not even been white-washed.
So you're telling me that
a texture object under different lightning and under vastly different effects will always look the same ? you sure you know what you're talking about?
That man should care about his current projects , not an IP he has no rights to.
You're ignoring months of stupid rants from the same man.
New flash... Different artist has different values , for the same character. Old artist is not involved , slight change happens.
Whitening ? Nope.
Again ..i'm not arguing that no change was made to lisa. Many changes happenned ( on every freaking character ). i'm arguing that :
-itagaki case is void
-Lisa is still a black character
Sorry but who the hell is "we" .. you're using this as a basis for your argument, and i'm totally lost.And who the hell are you? What is your profession? What have you done?
I think i'm fine since i just need to look at my own skin to know what i'm talking about.I don't think I said that. Maybe you should learn to read better. lighting isn't going to drastically change a character's skin color. Maybe you should go outside once in awhile experience brown skin folks in different lighting situations and you will notice that it doesn't change drastically.
Most of his rants reek of bitterness .. "they don't know why something was there, they don't know the meaning of the team ninja logo, they don't know something else, i wouldn't have done this , this game doesn't play the way i like it"His rants is to his fellow friends he worked with on the IP. What's it to you? he created it and he still feel attached to it.
Again , who is "we" ..are you the only one on this forom who have done 3D modeling , or texturing ?Really? Well we had 4 different artists that worked on on of our characters and it didn't change at all. Try again.
Ok , if you say so. thanks for the detailled answer.Wrong
Back to you , it's the point i'm making from the start.I didn't say she wasn't considered a black character anymoree but her skin tone has definitely been lighten up. Reading comprehension is fundamental.Also go to Spec Savers.
I'm just saying it's Japanese culture. It's not a nod to western culture's segregation or something. Nobles are pale, workers are tanned. Even if discriminatory, it's not a racial issue.
The ying yang symbol is about opposite types of energy, it has NOTHING to do with race. Light is good because our planet is nurtured by the Sun. It's a concept way older than slavery. You people are insane.
I think Dragon Ball is way more racist with their super-sayans and whatnot, but I don't see people complaining.
As someone who is black, that reasoning is completely valid. Darkness representing evil, fear, etc. and light representing good, purity, etc. is a notion that has existed since the beginning. It's not something that has anything to do with race. There's a reason goth people are associated with jet black hair and dark makeup.
However, since skin color is such a senitive issue, it's not a good idea to aplly that line of thinking to a character's skin color. I understand why it's done though.
As someone who is black, that reasoning is completely valid. Darkness representing evil, fear, etc. and light representing good, purity, etc. is a notion that has existed since the beginning. It's not something that has anything to do with race. There's a reason goth people are associated with jet black hair and dark makeup.
However, since skin color is such a senitive issue, it's not a good idea to aplly that line of thinking to a character's skin color. I understand why it's done though.
Forgive me, I just perused Cia's wiki page and I didn't read where she became a worker out tending the fields. Is this a part of the fiction not included on the wiki page?
Whether it's an issue of social class or race, it's fucked up to make a character's skin darker because they are now "evil".
But this is OT, so I'll stop here.