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[Lucius86]

Going a little further back, you played in Unreal 2 as a black dude. John was his name - I remember reading a few articles regarding that Legend wanted a lead black character to stand out.

Weird thing is, I honestly could not care less if I play as a woman, a kid, a black person, white....as long as it fits the narrative and environment the game is played in, and the character is played in a manner I find convincing.

 

[Hedja]

You might have taken away a different message from that video than the one old Morgs was trying to convey there dude :lol

Or I've picked the wrong video to convey what I'm trying to say. What is Morgan saying that's different to what I'm saying? I'm saying to ignore race; take a human as a human.

It's like the thread about the Resident Evil 6 cast, it's one thing to shoehorn characters into something for the sake of diversity but it's an entirely different thing to discuss why there are so many games which are culturally homogenous when that's not a realistic depiction of the world in which we live. If you live in a Western country today, at least in cities, your experience of the world around you does not gel with that depiction. I don't think there's anything inherently harmful about discussing that, it's like talking about whether it's realistic to show someone using a revolver in the early 19th century.

True point. I've never played a game for realism (i.e. applying a game world to real life) so I guess that's the reason I never take note of a game's racial diversity while playing. It's not because I can relate to their skin tone (I'm not white myself) it's simply because I don't care and so don't realise.

I guess for some people that's where the problem lies. They want games to imitate the real world as much as possible; which is not why I play games.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Not for nothing but whites make up the majority of the population in America and Europe. It would make sense that the majority of protagonists in western media would thus be white.

 

[Htown]

Not for nothing but whites make up the majority of the population in America and Europe. It would make sense that the majority of protagonists in western media would thus be white.

They're overrepresented, in America especially. Think of all the games that came out this generation. There are hundreds of titles, and we're struggling to come up with a list of 5 to 7 minority characters.

This whole thing ALSO doesn't speak well of how publishers and developers look at white people. How many of you white people in this thread will skip an awesome game because the protagonist is not white?

Anyone?

THEN WHY NOT HAVE SOME MINORITIES IN GAMES? What the fuck does it hurt?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Or I've picked the wrong video to convey what I'm trying to say. What is Morgan saying that's different to what I'm saying? I'm saying to ignore race; take a human as a human.

I actually think that's a terrible suggestion. By all means think of "a man who is black or white" as opposed to a "black or white man" (i.e. put empathy before difference), but ignoring race altogether is just weird. While it's an indirect relationship, race is part of who someone is because it has informed their life experience to an extent; if someone has Indian parents their upbringing could potentially be quite different from someone who has Norwegian parents, even if they're both raised in the same country.

To me, Freeman is just saying that we need to focus on the common-ground we all share above all else. I don't think that means we need to ignore race altogether though.

True point. I've never played a game for realism (i.e. applying a game world to real life) so I guess that's the reason I never take note of a game's racial diversity while playing. It's not because I can relate to their skin tone (I'm not white myself) it's simply because I don't care and so don't realise.

I guess for some people that's where the problem lies. They want games to imitate the real world as much as possible; which is not why I play games.

That's fair enough. I mean, it's pretty clear that this only really applies to games which attempt a realistic depiction of the world around them so if those games don't interest you it probably comes off as hand-wringing.

 

[Jintor]

To me, Freeman is just saying that we need to focus on the common-ground we all share above all else. I don't think that means we need to ignore race altogether though.

Yeah. Differences should be noticed and acknowledged and accepted, but never dismissed or ignored.

 

[KKRT00]

They're overrepresented, in America especially. Think of all the games that came out this generation. There are hundreds of titles, and we're struggling to come up with a list of 5 to 7 minority characters.

This whole thing ALSO doesn't speak well of how publishers and developers look at white people. How many of you white people in this thread will skip an awesome game because the protagonist is not white?

Anyone?

THEN WHY NOT HAVE SOME MINORITIES IN GAMES? What the fuck does it hurt?

Ok, what characters in what games would You changed? Seriously, just named them.

 

[bryehn]

Someone posted Rico from Just Cause 2, right?

.....

I can't believe how many people can't follow the simple concept of western-developed with a non-white lead. :S

 

[Htown]

Ok, what characters in what games would You changed? Seriously, just named them.

Any of them? Unless we're talking about a previously established fictional character like King Arthur or Batman, or a historical figure like Napoleon or the Borgias, there's no reason a character can't be a minority. Any human going into space could be ANY race, but they all default to white. Any character in a modern military shooter could be any race, but they default to white, too. Any character that exists, in a place where there are not good historical reasons for a person of that race to NOT be present, can be a minority character.

 

[KKRT00]

Any of them? Unless we're talking about a previously established fictional character like King Arthur or Batman, or a historical figure like Napoleon or the Borgias, there's no reason a character can't be a minority. Any human going into space could be ANY race, but they all default to white. Any character in a modern military shooter could be any race, but they default to white, too. Any character that exists, in a place where there are not good historical reasons for a person of that race to NOT be present, can be a minority character.

So, we have to exclude all fantasy games, exclude all games without protagonists, all games with character creation tools, all Middle Ages and based on most Ancient Civilizations etc, do You really think that many left?

And btw, not all games are made in America, many of them are made in Europe, where its more natural to make white characters and get easier to get white actors.

 

[Htown]

So, we have to exclude all fantasy games, exclude all games without protagonists, all games with character creation tools, all Middle Ages and based on most Ancient Civilizations etc, do You really think that many left?

Why do we have to exclude fantasy games that take place in a fictional world? A fictional world has the racial make-up that you decide it has.

There are many Ancient Civilizations that did not consist of white people.

Are there that many left? Only 90% of shooters, 90% of platformers, 80% of action games, etc.

 

[linko9]

I can't think of a single game with a black female protagonist (primary protagonist, Sheva doesn't count). I'm not really bothered by this, but it is a shame that things are so lop-sided.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

So, we have to exclude all fantasy games, exclude all games without protagonists, all games with character creation tools, all Middle Ages and based on most Ancient Civilizations etc, do You really think that many left?

The middle-ages of England perhaps, or do you think that the rest of the world was some sort of temporal anomaly during those periods? As far as ancient civilisations, Anglo-Saxon dominance of the world is a very recent thing. Elisabeth Taylor may have played Cleopatra but that doesn't mean she was actually a rich white chick.

And btw, not all games are made in America, many of them are made in Europe, where its more natural to make white characters and get easier to get white actors.

Again this is patently false unless you happen to be Polish, in which case I can understand why you might have that view. Mainland Europe is hugely diverse, not just as a result of the native cultures of Europe but those who have migrated there.

 

[Dram]

I can't think of a single game with a black female protagonist (primary protagonist, Sheva doesn't count). I'm not really bothered by this, but it is a shame that things are so lop-sided.

The only one I can think of is Urban Chaos an old PS one game.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Is Shank white?

And the black guy was voiced by a white guy.

and the woman was voiced by anti-violence in games lobbyist.

 

[sentry65]

The great thing about older civilizations, is there'd have to be some new game mechanics with fighting and weapons than relying on guns and crosshairs.

Even if it's supernatural historical fiction game, there's probably a whole mess of new game mechanics to invent based on the culture.


Games are also hellbent on being grand epic things. What's so wrong with a game about your small village in the woods or jungle? I know it doesn't have nukes, lasers, supersized spaceships, exploding cities, and space marine armor, but you'd fight for it just the same as the native race.

 

[Reuenthal]

The great thing about older civilizations, is there'd have to be some new game mechanics with fighting and weapons than relying on guns and crosshairs.

Even if it's supernatural historical fiction game, there's probably a whole mess of new game mechanics to invent based on the culture.


Games are also hellbent on being grand epic things. What's so wrong with a game about your small village in the woods or jungle? I know it doesn't have nukes, lasers, supersized spaceships, exploding cities, and space marine armor, but you'd fight for it just the same as the native race.

Nice. I would like for us to have Apocalypto the game.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

As a catalan, the lack of non-bullfighters, dancers or aristocratic spanish characters is really insulting. I should start a thread about this...

how many non-viking norwegian characters

 

[linko9]

how many non-viking norwegian characters

Everyone in Heavy Rain, or at least that's what it sounds like

 

[sentry65]

Nice. I would like for us to have Apocalypto the game.

Right, I think that would be a brutal, game beyond anything people have seen - and not because of blood, but everything else



or you could have a game about a slave escaping from slavery as an action stealth game. You could even have signs be garbled up since most slaves couldn't read.



We have movies on these subjects, but no games.

Are these subjects too edgy for games?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Right, I think that would be a brutal, game beyond anything people have seen - and not because of blood, but everything else

or you could have a game about a slave escaping from slavery as an action stealth game. You could even have signs be garbled up since most slaves couldn't read.

We have movies on these subjects, but no games.

Are these subjects too edgy for games?

This post reminded me of the scene in Boardwalk Empire where Chalky White is in prison pretending he knows how to read while another black guy tries to goad him into throwing down. The whole scene is incredibly tense, but more than that it's filled with subtext which elevates it into something spectacular, particularly the way in which the scene concludes. I honestly think that is too edgy for games, which makes me a little sad.

 

[Arlecchino]

We need George Lucas to finally make a game that has an all-black cast. It's about time that they get some representation.

 

[Hylian7]

Does them being non-human count?

 

[sentry65]

This post reminded me of the scene in Boardwalk Empire where Chalky White is in prison pretending he knows how to read while another black guy tries to goad him into throwing down. The whole scene is incredibly tense, but more than that it's filled with subtext which elevates it into something spectacular, particularly the way in which the scene concludes. I honestly think that is too edgy for games, which makes me a little sad.

and that right there is why the industry will never grow and mature to its full potential or will at least take a very very long time until society accepts actual mature games (not just blood, violence, and sex)

We're going to be stuck ignoring subject matters that dive into accurate history, human nature, religion, and the way things really were/are at different times and places

 

[Joseph Merrick]

Everyone in Heavy Rain, or at least that's what it sounds like

whaaaaaat. they are all islanders. that's extremely offensive

 

[Kimaka]

Right, I think that would be a brutal, game beyond anything people have seen - and not because of blood, but everything else



or you could have a game about a slave escaping from slavery as an action stealth game. You could even have signs be garbled up since most slaves couldn't read.



We have movies on these subjects, but no games.

Are these subjects too edgy for games?

Because its not fun playing a character that gets beaten and/or raped for stepping out of line. The gaming industry is young compared to movies and I don't think there is any company that can approach slavery in a mature manner.

I'd like to see more games based on non-European mythology. I'm so tired of seeing western fantasy games being limited to a Tolkienesque style. It's fantasy. Why does everything have to be based on the Middle Ages?

 

[Scirrocco]

Of the games I own:

Destroy all Humans - a Furon male.
Gladius - A lucasarts strategy game. two main characters, one's white as hell, but the one the story really seems to center around, is female viking.
Prince of Persia - Persian obviously
The Red Star - Three protagonists, two are female, male character is pretty much irrelevant story line wise. Based off a comic though.

 

[sentry65]

Because its not fun playing a character that gets beaten and/or raped for stepping out of line. The gaming industry is young compared to movies and I don't think there is any company that can approach slavery in a mature manner.

It's also not fun watching rape/slave scenes in movies or reading them in books, but people do watch/read them and many of them win awards for their storytelling...

There's plenty of games that gore it up, dismember your body, go through meat grinders, get impailed, etc. It's odd that a movie can show a rape scene in Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but won't show the same thing as a non-interactive cut scene in an M-rated game due to society's view on gaming.



Books can have the most disgusting and disturbing things take place in them because you can't see them and don't have a rating system to limit their sales. The upfront cost isn't high, risk is low, and can only be described by word of mouth.

Games allow you to not only see things, but interactively do them, and can be shown verbatim on the news. So touchy subjects simply get ignored because it's both expensive and high risk.

Movies are somewhere in the middle.


So yeah, maybe we'll never get true psychological horror thriller games about people other than what modern mainstream currently accepts

 

[thePsyKo1]

Pretty much anything made by EA sports.

Minus the NHL games...

 

[jim-jam bongs]

So yeah, maybe we'll never get true psychological horror thriller games

Silent Hill 2 is probably as close as we'll ever get. Which is still pretty good, but could have been better with even less combat.

 

[charlequin]

I really don't get why this is an issue.

As with anything games will evolve as the audience evolves. Why would things be any different if what's being made sells?

Why do people care about racial diversity in video games?

...presumably because some of us want the gaming industry to come off as something other than outrageously tone-deaf on the issue of race?

...

Games are made in countries whose populations have a huge range of ethnic backgrounds, to be sold to people with a huge range of ethnic backgrounds. (Ten minutes in any Gamestop in a major US metro area will instantly disabuse you of the idea that gaming is a white hobby.) An entertainment media that accurately reflected this would tell stories about minorities as well as whites; it'd be seeing a burgeoning trend towards Latino characters as America's demographics shift; it'd present a wide range of characters from different racial, religious, and class backgrounds, touching on those inasmuch as they're relevant to the character's lives but not always making them the sole focus of the story.

Instead, most American media exclude non-white characters from everything that isn't specifically an identity-driven thing. You won't have a black lead (unless it's Will Smith) in anything but a "black" movie. You won't see an ensemble cast movie with eight people, of whom only supporting cast members are white, unless the movie is specifically about race in some way. This is actually way more unrealistic and makes race a way touchier subject than it would be if the entertainment industry just made an effort to be more inclusive.

Same thing with games. If race isn't an issue, it wouldn't hurt to just make leads non-white. Obviously non-white people exist; if any one person's specific game has a black lady or a Latino or whatever as the lead, there's still going to be 30,000 other games with white guys. It won't hurt anything and it'd make the industry seem way less racist!

Ultimately, "well most of our audience is white" is at best a cowardly excuse and at worst a decision that provides cover for actual racism. Unless you think that your entire white audience is so racist that they absolutely won't buy anything with a black dude or Asian woman in it (and if they are -- we have bigger problems!) it cannot possibly hurt to take a broader approach.

I'm saying to ignore race; take a human as a human.

That works great in dealing with another individual person and treating them equally regardless of their ethnic origin. It doesn't work so well in dealing with structural inequality. If everyone who makes a game has "a white guy!" as their first thought for a protagonist, the portion of white protagonists will be way higher than the actual proportion of white dudes in the population. The only way to fix this kind of problem is for creators to actually pay attention to these things, educate themselves, and make an effort to push past the most obvious choices in creating their work. (And, really, anyone who actually considers themselves creative should be pushing past the most obvious choices in their work anyway.)

 

[Sol..]

It probably goes without saying that you don't see non-white male characters because non-white male people don't have much of a presence on the development side. With that said the lack of non-white male protagonists is probably for the best until the caliber of writing goes up about nine thousand percent. Check out NBA 2k7 and NBA 2k12. Note the obvious target demographic. Now go play My Player (or Street mode in 2k7) and listen to the writing and voice acting. It's amazing the put this shit out.....ya feel me?

 

[Camilos]

Isn't the Shadows of the Damned main character Latino?

I really wanted to buy this game. But I hate tank controls with the intensity of 6 atomic bombs. And yes, he was Latino. Although I never met a Latino with the last name "Hotspur".

 

[djtiesto]

Chell from Portal, I guess

...but it just seems to me like Valve wanted to 'cover all bases' rather than have her identify to any particular ethnicity.

I don't really see what makes her "non white"... her skin tone looks pretty white though that may be the lighting?

 

[Kimaka]

Having pale skin doesn't mean you're white but its the lighting. Chell is a bit darker in the game. Here she is in the first Portal.

She was modeled after a woman of Brazilian and Japanese descent but I think Chell is meant to be racially ambiguous.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I really wanted to buy this game. But I hate tank controls with the intensity of 6 atomic bombs. And yes, he was Latino. Although I never met a Latino with the last name "Hotspur".

SotD has tank controls?