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It's a shame SimCity is stuck in the 1950s

I literally work (and am currently) 3 blocks from this corner :P

I work 4 blocks from that corner.

My dad lives 4 blocks from that corner, different direction though.

I grew up about 8 blocks from that corner, at Main & E. 11th Ave. Unfortunately, my old neighbourhood has gotten gentrified and infested with Hipsters.

Yeah that place is pretty hipstery. I went to that Vegetarian restaurant Foundation and it was a hipster ground-zero.
 
There's Cities in Motion where managing traffic is the entire game, but being unable to alter the actual streets or influencing the flow of cars in any way just means creating bus traffic hell or complex webs of railroad or subway.

If SimCity really acknowledges that a human being has feet and is able to use them for movement without a machine around its body, then it's a nice start. One of these days, games like these may even pretend to care that bikes exist.

They've had foot traffic at least since 3000. Magnasanti had zero roads.

SimCity 2013 only allows foot traffic along roads.
 
It's always weird to go to America every 4-5 years and see how awful or non-existent their public transport system is. Even NYC is awful compared to any European city (I'm living in Prague) or UK.

North America is a superpower continent and yet still feels outdated in many ways such as this.
 
great op, but you missed something:


It was a pleasant discovery to find out that there are places where automobiles are outright banned, such as in Vienna's Innere Stadt (the "Inner City"), or some of Kyoto's shopping arcades. I want to make virtual versions of such cities too!

That was the first thing that came to mind when reading the op.
You missed the pedestrian zones.
They are an integral part of practically every city outside north america.

btw: I own a car, I like driving, once I was like some of the people in this thread, wanting to go by car everywhere. but since I live in a city with a great public transport system, my car remains mostly unused. I never thought this could happen, but it did.
 
You will be much, much happier in the big city. The key is to live not where you can "get by" without a car -- even in the suburbs that's doable, though you'll rage against car owners all the time -- but where very few people in your social circle have cars; preferably somewhere where a car is more hassle than it's worth. I long ago moved to Tokyo, the world's most populated city, where the majority of businesses offer no parking, and where everyone takes the train (and where employers provide all employees with train passes).

It was a pleasant discovery to find out that there are places where automobiles are outright banned, such as in Vienna's Innere Stadt (the "Inner City"), or some of Kyoto's shopping arcades. I want to make virtual versions of such cities too!

Without getting too specific, I'll say that I'm moving to Seattle and I think that it will be a big improvement for me in this regard. There are a lot of wonderful things about where I currently live in SoCal, but it definitely has a deeply ingrained "car culture" that I don't fit in with well.

Thanks for the link to the Wikipedia entry on pedestrian zones, Zornica. I've read a decent amount of about city planning (including some of Duany's stuff) but I've never given much thought to that aspect of non-American cities.
 
road infrastructure is horrible in the USA, game was made in the USA

european countries are lightyears ahead of USA's road infrastructure
 
It's also a video game. This is like complaining that the Sims isn't a good enough life simulator. It's not trying to be perfect, it's trying to be fun.
 
It's also a video game. This is like complaining that the Sims isn't a good enough life simulator. It's not trying to be perfect, it's trying to be fun.

So you're saying that trying to recreate real places in games isn't fun?
Guess we should tell all these people in Minecraft that they're boring themselve for nothing!
If anything what the OP is talking about makes the game less fun for everyone but the devs.
 
It's also a video game. This is like complaining that the Sims isn't a good enough life simulator. It's not trying to be perfect, it's trying to be fun.
And I think being able to build real, complex and vibrant cities would be far more fun than being forced to mimic some of history's most loathsome, thoughtless, and dull planners. I think that's the point of a lot of this thread actually. It's like making Gran Turismo and only giving players a 1985 Ford Taurus or making a fantasy racing game where you can only explore cars made eight
 
I think it would be a good idea to release a really modern take on Sim City.

You start out with no money, and no opportunities for advancement. Then everyone is broke and deeply in debt. Your job is to come up with lies to tell them so they won't kill themselves.
 
great op, but you missed something:

It was a pleasant discovery to find out that there are places where automobiles are outright banned, such as in Vienna's Innere Stadt (the "Inner City"), or some of Kyoto's shopping arcades. I want to make virtual versions of such cities too!


That was the first thing that came to mind when reading the op.
You missed the pedestrian zones.
They are an integral part of practically every city outside north america.

Great catch guys. I can't believe I skipped pedestrian zones. I've been to Kyoto and Vienna too! I probably forgot about it because I was thinking of ways that Vancouver couldn't be built in SimCity and Vancouver is known for having no real public square and not the best public open areas (aside from parks).

One of the best public squares is Melbourne's Federation Square. Great pedestrian commercial lanes in Melbourne too. Can't do those in SimCity either?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_Square
 
I think it would be a good idea to release a really modern take on Sim City.

You start out with no money, and no opportunities for advancement. Then everyone is broke and deeply in debt. Your job is to come up with lies to tell them so they won't kill themselves.

Isn't there a game of politic somewhere?
There should be one about the latest election even!
 
I had to google Magnasanti and wow. What the hell?

The Totalitarian Buddhist who beat Sim City
magnasanti_1.jpg

Godfrey ReggioÂ’s Koyaanisqatsi seems to have been a big inspiration.

It very much was--I first watched it in 2006. The film presented the world in a way I never really looked at before and that captivated me. Moments like these compel me to physically express progressions in my thought, I have just happened to do that through the form of creating these cities in SimCity 3000. I could probably have done something similar--depicting the awesome regimentation and brutality of our society--with a series of paintings on a canvas, or through hideous architectural models. But it wouldnÂ’t be the same as doing it in the game, because I wanted to magnify the unbelievably sick ambitions of egotistical political dictators, ruling elites and downright insane architects, urban planners, and social engineers.

According to MagnasantiÂ’s graphs, none of its citizens seem to live past the age of 50.

Health of the sims was not a priority, relative to the main objective. I could have enacted several health ordinances which would have increased the life expectancy, but I decided not to for practical reasons. It shows that by only focusing on one objective, one may end up neglecting, or resorting to sacrificing, other important elements. Similarly, [in the real world] if we make maximizing profits as the absolute objective, we fail to take into consideration the social and environmental consequences.

Using games to make artistic statements, that's fucking awesome!
 
On the exact opposite end they have issues too. It's terrible at replicating small towns.

You just have to accept that it's a simcity and not an actual city or town.
 
We had a class on college about city development. Stuff was based on US methods from 60s and 70s (totally useless for European development to be honest), but if i translated that to Simcity 4, cities were growing like crazy :D
 
It's always weird to go to America every 4-5 years and see how awful or non-existent their public transport system is. Even NYC is awful compared to any European city (I'm living in Prague) or UK.

North America is a superpower continent and yet still feels outdated in many ways such as this.

Portland, OR sends its love.
 
It seems to me the more hippies or more hippie culture a city has, the better public transportation it has.

Des Moines is half the size of my hometown in population but they have a much better transit system and even the public bikes you can rent from one location and then leave at another.

We just have a terrible bus system. And basically zero hippies or hippie culture.

I'm abusing the term 'hippie' but it's the best way I can think of to describe it.
 
There's a great documentary on Netflix about white flight called the Pruitt-Igoe Myth that basically explains how the economy changed and caused massive downward population shifts in cities beyond the 1950s, and its effect on housing projects and city budgets imploding (literally and figuratively).

http://www.pruitt-igoe.com

SimCity following that model would make for a pretty bleak experience.

Immediately watched this after you brought it up. Holy shit that was a great documentary. Touched on so many great themes. White-flight, civil engineering idealism, the death of the american dream. Great stuff
 
This is a weird stance because simulation is right there in the name. Be authentic. I'd argue sims aren't meant to be "fun" or at least a different kind of "fun", they're like toyboxes that you love tinkering with to so much detail. Actual simulators like Trains, farming, planes, driving etc are huge sellers in Europe. They do nothing to placate a mainstream audience and yet they're still popular (check Steam charts even).

Great OP, hadn't really thought of it that way. Interesting perspective.

Just for clarity, I wasn't arguing that a more sim-oriented game would not be fun - I want a more true-to-life game, with lots of options. I'm saying the game designers have made a purposeful decision to make it less simmy and more arcadey, for better or for worse (if there is such a thing as an arcady-city-simulator).

Also, to thread: thanks for all the documentary and books recs! Keep 'em coming!
 
What SimCity is doing is simulating most cities realistically. Not weird ones experimenting with different urban theories. Yes, a few cities are successful in their experiments, but they are far from the average city. I personally am happy playing SimCity and not SimVancouver, so I can make my game cities look like most cities. Though I wouldn't mind playing with an experimental urban planning mod.
 
What SimCity is doing is simulating most cities realistically. Not weird ones experimenting with different urban theories. Yes, a few cities are successful in their experiments, but they are far from the average city. I personally am happy playing SimCity and not SimVancouver. Though I wouldn't mind playing with an experimental urban planning mod.

Vancouver is not exactly unique. You have a very bleak view of what real cities can be like.
 
Vancouver is not exactly unique. You have a very bleak view of what real cities can be like.

It's not about what they "CAN" be like it's about how they ARE. Most cities in the US and Canada are like the ones in SimCity. SimCity simulates what the majority of people experience when they visit or live in a city.
 
A fascinating criticism of the game as a modern city building simulation. I wish more gaming "journalism" would focus on analysis like this, instead of just tossing out cash-motivated number scores to appease publishers.

Criticism with well-developed suggestion for improvement should be the only acceptable form of criticism (aside from actually creating your own alternative).
 
No, fuck you, SimCity. I don't want to build an Edmonton or Houston. I want to build a Vancouver, San Francisco or Seattle. :|
 
No, fuck you, SimCity. I don't want to build an Edmonton or Houston. I want to build a Vancouver, San Francisco or Seattle. :|

Seattle? Can't get much more traditional than Seattle when it comes to city design. We've got multiple highways cutting through the town, bike paths are just afterthoughts crammed into existing streets, the city for the most part just sorta grew over the years without much planning. We've had forward-thinking ideas like the monorail just end up as old curiosities rather than vibrant mass transit, and only in the last few years has Seattle been getting serious with Light Rail (what SimCity calls "Street Cars"), and that won't really come into its own until around 2023.

Seattle is actually a lot like a SimCity city :)
 
A fascinating criticism of the game as a modern city building simulation. I wish more gaming "journalism" would focus on analysis like this, instead of just tossing out cash-motivated number scores to appease publishers.

Criticism with well-developed suggestion for improvement should be the only acceptable form of criticism (aside from actually creating your own alternative).

it's tricky, right? because you are critiquing based on what something isn't, rather than what it is. i don't really want sim city to look more my arcgis and i really don't want to lay bike lanes any more than i want to lay water pipes again.

looking at the responses, it looks like the new sim city actually does calculate walkability, so i bet with time we'll have more modern ideas about city structure come about.
 
Great catch guys. I can't believe I skipped pedestrian zones. I've been to Kyoto and Vienna too! I probably forgot about it because I was thinking of ways that Vancouver couldn't be built in SimCity and Vancouver is known for having no real public square and not the best public open areas (aside from parks).

Where in Kyoto did you go? I used to live in the area and go back regularly; I was there last week, in fact. You probably remember from your visit that the city follows a very efficient square grid layout (designed after the one in Chang'an in China) and was laid out like this all the way back in AD 794, when most European cities were still confusing warrens of twisty alleyways. (Kind of like some other Japanese cities, like Tokyo, even now.)

KYOUZU.JPG


And you might also recall that it's the thinner, non-car-oriented, pedestrian streets that are the most popular, the most beautiful, and the most valuable. During the high-growth post-war period the government widened some of the roads in the western half of the city (Ukyo or the "Right City") in hopes of development, but the people's love for the old "Left City" has ever stopped, and it's where everyone goes nowadays, while the ugly gray Right City is mostly boring and unpopular. There are pockets of nice neighborhoods -- textile-weaving district Nishijin, a classic example of "light industry", comes to mind (trivia: a belt from here is an item in Final Fantasy XII) -- but it's pretty dull overall.

On a typical day Sanjo (3rd Avenue) and Shijo (4th) are teeming with pedestrians and activity, while wide, car-dominated Gojo (5th) is lifeless. The north-to-south streets like Kiyamachi ("Woodhouse St.") and Teramachi ("Temple Street"; one of the covered ones) are packed with bustling activity. Going east from there, car-oriented Kawabata ("Riverside") is again lifeless, but two blocks over and you're in more of the gorgeous well-kept and pedestrian-focused historical streets, which are what visitors the world over flock to Kyoto to see. And they're mostly inaccessible to automobiles. When it's nothing but pedestrians and cyclists, you can have stores hawking their wares and people coming in to have a look. You can strike up conversations with strangers. You can sit out in front of a cafe and just people-watch. These are the things that keep people sane and relieve the alienation that would come from being stuck in a car all the time.
 
It's not about what they "CAN" be like it's about how they ARE. Most cities in the US and Canada are like the ones in SimCity. SimCity simulates what the majority of people experience when they visit or live in a city.
Isn't that the problem though? That you can seem to only build cities like the ones in NA? What if you're a European and you want to build European-like cities, or if you're Chinese and you want to try making a Chinese smogfest?
 
It's not about what they "CAN" be like it's about how they ARE. Most cities in the US and Canada are like the ones in SimCity. SimCity simulates what the majority of people experience when they visit or live in a city.

I strenuously disagree with this. I would say that most cities in the United States and Canada do not have well defined, separate, commercial, industrial, and residential sections. Most cities do not have railroads, most cities do not have airports. Very, very few cities have skyscrapers. Sim City is not offering some pure expression of how it is.

A lot of small towns in America do not have a single stop light. It is big news when a McDonald's moves in. You can describe a lot of small cities as 2 stop light towns.

The prototypical suburban city around where I live has almost no industrial sector at all.

Most of the non-built up landmass of the United States is either federally owned, protected land or land already set aside for agricultural use. Why doesn't Sim City simulate that as you build up suburbs, you encroach upon and pave over pasture and cropland? That is reality in the United States - not the build a city from scratch in a pristine wilderness thing that rarely happens (someone in this thread pointed out the purposeful building of Brasilia, to which you could add Washington DC. But it's supposed to be a city simulator, not a "Build a central-administrative-district simulator).

It seems to me the more hippies or more hippie culture a city has, the better public transportation it has.

Des Moines is half the size of my hometown in population but they have a much better transit system and even the public bikes you can rent from one location and then leave at another.

We just have a terrible bus system. And basically zero hippies or hippie culture.

I'm abusing the term 'hippie' but it's the best way I can think of to describe it.

Many, many towns and cities across America had well developed public transit systems in the very early 20th century. In Atlanta, for example, a lot of the best in-town neighborhoods were developed as street-car neighborhoods. The following statement is not hyperbole at all: the automobile manufacturers in America destroyed mass transit to encourage car culture. One of the reasons it's frustrating to hear people talk about car culture as an organic, natural thing - well, no, it's not. It's something that has been carefully cultivated and subsidized for decades. That doesn't mean we can't change, though!
 
It's always weird to go to America every 4-5 years and see how awful or non-existent their public transport system is. Even NYC is awful compared to any European city (I'm living in Prague) or UK.

North America is a superpower continent and yet still feels outdated in many ways such as this.

Thank our politicians for that. In florida we had a high speed rail planned from Tampa to Orlando and republicans made a huge bitchfest about it and got it canned.
 
What SimCity is doing is simulating most cities realistically. Not weird ones experimenting with different urban theories. Yes, a few cities are successful in their experiments, but they are far from the average city. I personally am happy playing SimCity and not SimVancouver, so I can make my game cities look like most cities. Though I wouldn't mind playing with an experimental urban planning mod.

sry but... what?

Experiments? what are you talking about? Clearly US cities are the odd ones, not everyone else:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_Living_Survey

this is a top 50 list of the most lifeworthy cities worldwide.
notice how the highest ranked US city is honolulu at 28. also notice how the combined number of all the inhabitants of the remaining non US cities are bigger than 1/3rd of the entire US population (not even counting the metropolitan areas surrounding them).

This is how most people in the developed world experience city life, not how YOU do.
 
Having only the option to build grids of roads is fun, but not the kind of fun I was hoping for with this game. Being creative and innovative in a game like this is what I find fun.

I really wish there was a "perfect" city builder out there with no caveats. We haven't had that since what, 3000?


oh come on. it has more than grids and you can experiment all you want with different city theories. just play the game.
 
It's always weird to go to America every 4-5 years and see how awful or non-existent their public transport system is. Even NYC is awful compared to any European city (I'm living in Prague) or UK.

North America is a superpower continent and yet still feels outdated in many ways such as this.

European cities often predate American cities (and cars) by hundreds of years. They are also, by necessity, smaller and more compact than American ones.

Can you understand how this might lead to differences in terms of urban planning?
 
GAF hates suburbs either because they're too young/broke to own a car or they're mostly single males without much need for living space, they'd be perfectly happy in a 400 sq ft shoebox in the city without a car to take you places when it's 0 degrees outside.
I definitely understand where you're coming from, and it's my ideal too. Suburbs are good because they make comfortable living affordable to the masses.

I grew up in Suburbia. When I started living in the city as an adult, it was a difficult and stressful transition.

I long for the days when i could drive on the road without getting yelled at or honked out. I long for the day when I could run to the drug store without having to navigate heavy traffic on pothole filled roads.

I long for the day when i can take a walk in the middle of the night and not worry about getting mugged.

Thank you SimCity for keeping that dream alive! :)
 
I'm confused by the scale of the stores in the OP..LOL

Ok, it looks like they're multiple stories tall, but they don't look that deep or wide. Is that an office building for Home Depot or is it an actual Home Depot. In the US a Home depot is like 10x bigger than what I'm seeing. Perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me. Maybe it's a store with apartments/offices on top?

It could also be a "small major city" thing. Although around here (the Southern US)....even our big "cities" are huge and spread across wide areas, and not closely cramped in any way. Tons of room for stuff.
 
oh come on. it has more than grids and you can experiment all you want with different city theories. just play the game.

Nah he can't play the game....because it's offline :p

European cities often predate American cities (and cars) by hundreds of years. They are also, by necessity, smaller and more compact than American ones.

Can you understand how this might lead to differences in terms of urban planning?

Actually there's not much space near Saint Nazaire and it was rebuilt following the usual American city trope after it was bombed to death during WWII.
Let's just say it's not the best city of France by a wide margin.
And btw we owe the huge boulevard in Paris to Haussman who basically made it so cannons could be used in Paris to deal with the rebellious nature of the population...or so goes the legend.
 
I'm confused by the scale of the stores in the OP..LOL

Ok, it looks like they're multiple stories tall, but they don't look that deep or wide. Is that an office building for Home Depot or is it an actual Home Depot. In the US a Home depot is like 10x bigger than what I'm seeing. Perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me. Maybe it's a store with apartments/offices on top?

It's residential above commercial. It's pretty common here in Canada.
 
sry but... what?

Experiments? what are you talking about? Clearly US cities are the odd ones, not everyone else:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_Living_Survey

this is a top 50 list of the most lifeworthy cities worldwide.
notice how the highest ranked US city is honolulu at 28. also notice how the combined number of all the inhabitants of the remaining non US cities are bigger than 1/3rd of the entire US population (not even counting the metropolitan areas surrounding them).

This is how most people in the developed world experience city life, not how YOU do.

US cities would come on top of that survey if we had proper affordable healthcare.
 
I'm confused by the scale of the stores in the OP..LOL

Ok, it looks like they're multiple stories tall, but they don't look that deep or wide. Is that an office building for Home Depot or is it an actual Home Depot. In the US a Home depot is like 10x bigger than what I'm seeing. Perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me. Maybe it's a store with apartments/offices on top?

It could also be a "small major city" thing. Although around here (the Southern US)....even our big "cities" are huge and spread across wide areas, and not closely cramped in any way. Tons of room for stuff.

The Home Depot takes up almost the entire block in space. There's a Save On (grocery store) under it in the same building, then a Winners (JC Penny-esque) above it, and some stores wedged in on the south side, like Gamestop and such. So it's three stores stacked on top of each other, then residential on top of that. It's very 3D and very hard to get used to when coming from an area where even smallish stores have parking lots that take up 4 blocks of space.


The Canadian Tire you see across the street has a Best Buy layered under it on the same block. When you're inside you can actually take an elevator or stairs directly to Best Buy and back. The Canadian Tire itself is two stories and has a pretty cool shopping cart escalator.
 
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