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[pashmilla]

look who's back

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pash is back

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so SOME people (not mentioning any names) in the Colin Moriarty thread over on gaming side (go check it out if you want entertainment (nb: pashmilla is not responsible for any aneurysms or bleeding eyeballs that may occur as a result of viewing this thread)) have insisted that sexist/racist/transphobic/homophobic/ableist/etc jokes are "not a big deal" because they're not "real bigotry", they're just JOKES, man, JOKES. Who would get offended over a joke when REAL prejudice and discrimination is happening all the time? Well guess what, geniuses, bigoted humour DOES normalise bigoted attitudes. WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT??? Oh and so y'all can't bitch at me for my sources, have ACADEMIC STUDIES. I went through Google Scholar for this shit, y'all had better appreciate it.

We propose that humor and ridicule play a critical part of the delegitimization process, operating in tandem with processes such as dehumanization (representing others as animal-like and/or machine-like) and system justification (i.e., maintaining the status quo in terms of intergroup hierarchies). As such, humor plays a key role in the delegitimization of others that occurs in much of everyday life, such as in the workplace or schoolyard setting.

From: Derogating humor as a delegitimization strategy in intergroup contexts.
Hodson, Gordon; MacInnis, Cara C.
Translational Issues in Psychological Science, Vol 2(1), Mar 2016, 63-74.

The first section traces historic connections of ways dominant culture in the United States portrays targeted groups as both full of irrational anger and lacking a sense of humor or the ability to ”get" or ”take" jokes. In the perpetuation of dehumanizing stereotypes, this discourse of negation undermines core aspects of being seen as fully human, as humor is a fundamental communication realm of bonding and generating shared symbolic and social meaning within different cultural contexts. Against this backdrop, the more specific level of denial of humor functions to dismiss socio-political causes for anger at injustice, discrimination and violence, pathologizing the targeted group for not being able to share laughter at jokes that normalize their oppression. This power dynamic serves to invisibilize context, psychologize structural issues, and delegitimize resistance.

From: Zara Zimbardo
California Institute of Integral Studies
ISLAMOPHOBIA STUDIES JOURNAL
VOLUME 2, NO. 1, SPRING 2014, PP. 59-81.

Ford and his master's student Shane Triplett conducted a series of experiments. They wanted to see if people exposed to various forms of disparaging humor would be influenced by it and discriminate against these groups. Specifically, they looked at homosexuals and racists as two representative groups. People justify prejudiced views against racists, but there is more ambiguity in regard to homosexuals....The results were very clear. Subjects that held anti homosexual views supported significantly higher cuts for the gay and lesbian organization after they were exposed to anti gay humor, compared to subjects who were not prejudiced against gays and lesbians who were exposed to the same jokes.

From Psychology Today

"But why is it okay to make jokes about white men and not anyone else???"

Punching up (i.e. minorities and women making jokes about those who hold institutional privilege over them) = resistance.

Punching down (cishet white men making jokes about minorities and women over whom they have privilege) = douchebaggery. Any questions?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

fake news!

care to link any actual evidence to back up your opinions?

 

[John Kowalski]

Do you have any idea... how 90's it is to reference eminem

 

[JCX]

I'm a comedian and I cannot stand "it's just a joke!!!" as a defense. You gotta own what you say, which sometimes means admitting you've missed the mark on a joke. Comedy isn't easy.

 

[Starfish_Oxide]

The OP's post reads like they are replying to someone. Really strange to me.

 

[SmackDaddy]

The OP's post reads like they are replying to someone. Really strange to me.

It's a very commonly held belief that humor is "anything goes". I'm in this camp, but will try to remember to read the OP in the near future. Seems packed with good info

 

[goodfella]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

 

[pigeon]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

Nobody, stop making jokes that rely on dehumanizing others

 

[The Technomancer]

The best I've ever heard it put is:

When you make a joke who do you want to include? And who do you want to exclude?

Who do you want laughing with you? A victim of sexual assault or a rapist?

 

[goodfella]

Nobody, stop making jokes that rely on dehumanizing others

But as long as I'm punching up it's fine, it's resistance.

 

[xxracerxx]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

What sort of jokes do you want to tell that you have to know if it is okay or not?

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

"“Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, "I am only joking!"”
**Proverbs‬ *26:18-19‬

 

[Apocryphon]

Nah..

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

Tell us some of your favorite jokes about other groups of people and we'll let you know.

 

[MKIL65]

I grew up with a Vietnamese friend. People would constantly make fun of how his eyes looked and make your typical chinese ''jokes.''

Even at my young age (I think I was 10) I could clearly see it wasn't funny. He just shrugged it off all the time.

 

[pashmilla]

Nah..

Do you have an academic source to back up your argument or just a guy who tells offensive jokes for a living?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

How about, learn to be funny without bringing other people down.

 

[Sunster]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

Why do people act like it's difficult to avoid telling jokes that normalize bigotry? You aren't being forced by gunpoint to walk through a bad joke minefield while blindfolded. It's 2017, git gud at inclusive jokes or get run over by better comedians.

 

[pigeon]

But as long as I'm punching up it's fine, it's resistance.

If you have to ask probably safe to assume you're not punching up

 

[goodfella]

Nobody, stop making jokes that rely on dehumanizing others

What sort of jokes do you want to tell that you have to know if it is okay or not?

Tell us some of your favorite jokes about other groups of people and we'll let you know.

Right. I was using sarcasm to point out the absurdity (as I see it) of this part of the OP.

"But why is it okay to make jokes about white men and not anyone else???"

Punching up (i.e. minorities and women making jokes about those who hold institutional privilege over them) = resistance.

Punching down (cishet white men making jokes about minorities and women over whom they have privilege) = douchebaggery. Any questions?

And for clarification, I am straight mixed male, no I don't make jokes that degrade other people.

 

[The Kree]

Ask someone who uses bigoted humor to explain the joke. Watch what happens.

 

[QuantumBro]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

Feel free to joke about Evilore all you want; he not only owns the site, but is straight, white, and male on top of that.

Spoiler

RESIST!!!

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

There are plenty of individuals who are easy to joke about without dehumanizing minorities. Pick your favorite, but remember to avoid sexism too.

 

[NandoGip]

It's one thing to break your mexican friends balls, it's another for a huddle of white dudes to trade n*gger jokes.

 

[pigeon]

Right. I was using sarcasm to point out the absurdity (as I see it) of this part of the OP.

How did it go? Did you make your point effectively?

Oh huh it turns out that privilege is actually an intersecting matrix of arbitrary societally-applied categories and trying to compare relative levels of privilege between orthogonal issues is meaningless because what's important is recognizing our own privilege and practicing solidarity?

Good to know.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Why do people act like it's difficult to avoid telling jokes that normalize bigotry?

Because they're lazy.

Anyway, if you want to see what happens when bigoted humor normalizes bigoted attitudes, visit /pol/. Please.

 

[Slayven]

Comedyou is a talent and there are few comedians for a reason

 

[pigeon interrupted]

I thought this was common knowledge. We pick up behaviours, language, view points all the time. And I am somewhat familiar with the psychology and have spoken about it before but then I realise I am basically advocating censorship and people get defensive and make fun of me because I said something critical about something they hold dear,like the game industry for example. :'(

I have a question.

Assuming white cis male is at the top of the institutional privilege scale, where does everyone else fall?

I need to know who I'm allowed to make jokes about, and who I'm not. Please inform.

The Illuminati.

Spoiler

At your own risk.

 

[CrocMother]

"But why is it okay to make jokes about white men and not anyone else???"

Punching up (i.e. minorities and women making jokes about those who hold institutional privilege over them) = resistance.

Punching down (cishet white men making jokes about minorities and women over whom they have privilege) = douchebaggery. Any questions?

So if a minority makes a joke about a white person it's "resistance"? I think it's up to them to decide that. Could just be making a joke because it's funny!

 

[goodfella]

How did it go? Did you make your point effectively?

Oh huh it turns out that privilege is actually an intersecting matrix of arbitrary societally-applied categories and trying to compare relative levels of privilege between orthogonal issues is meaningless because what's important is recognizing our own privilege and practicing solidarity?

Good to know.

Clearly pretty poorly. Although if I'm reading your comment right it doesn't sound like you disagree?

I agree with the OP, and then I read the last bit and it annoyed me so I made a snarky comment which I don't normally do.

 

[LionPride]

Like, you can tell a funny joke based around race, based around a person's sex, a person's gender, etc. it's just that most people don't know how to tell these jokes and make them not racist, not sexist, not whatever. Like, straight white dudes probably shouldn't be making jokes punching down at folks. Especially racial minorities, women, and LGBTQ peeps.

And then they say "WHAT ABOUT LOUIS C.K.?! HE SAID NIGGER!" Nigga you ain't Louis C.K.

"WHAT ABOUT CARLIN!?" Fool you ain't George Carlin

"YOU'RE JUST A SJW WHO CAN'T APPRECIATE HUMOR!" No, you ain't tell a funny joke.

Jokes have a time and place, Colin's Joke one wasn't funny, and two was not the time nor place.

Joke telling takes talent and tact, two things most people on the internet lack.

In the topic about best traps on games someone posted Poison, not funny, not the time, not the place. People need to figure this shit out.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

I've never heard or read an offensive joke about something off limits, that didn't have some subversiveness or clever aspect to it. There are so many reasons a joke can fail if the context and delivery is bad. This is why you can't just say something on Twitter and expect people to defend it the same way they would with a 10 minute bit by Louis CK.

 

[admiraltaftbar]

I'm a comedian and I cannot stand "it's just a joke!!!" as a defense. You gotta own what you say, which sometimes means admitting you've missed the mark on a joke. Comedy isn't easy.

Seriously, most of these cases would have been fine had the person involved said "Hey guys sorry about my joke, I see how people think it's in poor taste". But no instead we get, "it's free speech I can say what I want, it's just a joke and none of you have a sense of humor".

 

[RustyNails]

Whats frustrating is that even super lefty liberals are prone to such things. Like some of my super liberal friends also crack jokes about terrorism because I'm a Muslim. Silly jokes like, "did they make sure you weren't carrying any bombs LOL har har har". Whatever. I just laugh it off because I know they dont mean it and actually stand with Muslims on various discrimination conflicts, but it sucks.

 

[WedgeX]

Pretty sure Foucault would agree with you, OP.

 

[ModBot]

If you are responding to what particular people are saying in a particular thread, please do so in that thread and to those people rather than starting a new thread.