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[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

However, there are few more annoying people in the world than pretentious holier-than-thou vegetarian/vegans, who take every opportunity to argue and debate with people who happen to eat meat, and love nothing more than the sound of their own voice and their inflated ego.

Meat is not bad for you. Meat is good for you, if consumed correctly. Dont rant and rave about this shit, dont listen to egotistical vegetarians, and your life will be wonderful.

Dumb and wrong.

Just looking at some jokes and close-to-braindead statements made in this thread by omnivores is enough to disprove it. You're experiencing confirmation bias.

Assholes are everywhere and come from all sorts of backgrounds and personal opinions. I get enough of that bullshit getting lectured about being an elitist lawless cyclist by drivers who are the ones doing the lecturing while going 10 mph over the limit on highways and rarely using turn signals. See what I mean?

 

[scotcheggz]

Quite serious.

"Pig Products Make the World Turn" @ TED by Christien Meindertsma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRETz2F-heQ

Oh, I totally believe that it is true, I just wondered what it had to do with vegetarians. I don't eat concrete.

 

[Earl Cazone]

Oh god. So many facepaln-worthy ignorant posts in this thread. Carnivore-people.. why all the hate. it is ridicolous to laugh at someone who made a rational decision. You are as close-minded as the elitist-vegan/vegetarian people you hate so much. It is important to look at both sides of the coin.

I, myself would not consider myself a vegetarian, even though i didnt eat meat for several months now. Once, I ate meat every day and had those stupid "If you dont eat it, it died FOR NOTHING" discussions, or even "ANIMALS WOULD EAT YOU TOO". Seriously? Human do have the ability to reflect and think about their doings. animals mostly dont, so please dont use that as an argument.
lets face it: most of the typical "anti-vegetarian" agenda is just stupid.


A vegetarian alone does not change the world. but look: from the beginnings of it, where vegetarians were a small minority, there are now vegetarian alternatives available at every restaurant. You may not help the animals that die right now, but maybe fewer die in the future, because demand shrinks
Also: For example in nazi-germany, in the end, the people that did not rais their hand and shouted "heil hitler" - they did not change anything. but they stood there and did what they think was best. So do vegetarians and vegans.

At first: If you are vegetarian, and decided so, because you dont like the way the animals are treated, then it is only consequent to eventually become vegan (imagine how many male chickens get thrown away, because they cant produce eggs etc). But becoming vegetarian is a great start.

It is even a great start to just reduce your meat-intake. if you eat less, you do your part to lessen demand on meat and hence you do your part against animal-cruelty. It is more healthy to not rely on meat as much, anyway.
It would be great, if more people bought meat from more local slaughterhouses that get their meat from smaller farms. In this case, you can mostly be sure, that the animals were treated right and had a nice life.


I am not a fan of shocking video-material or photos, but we could just talk about chickens that cant even move in their small cages, pigs that are thrown in containers, or cows whose ancles break, because they are too heavy for their bones to support them.
I know this is not always the case, but i have seen reality and you should know for sure, that its not a beautiful one.

as I said, I dont consider myself vegetarian, but I sure have a vegetarian or even vegan mindset. I still love the taste of meat, i will still eat the stuff my grandma cooks at christmas eve and I still eat stuff with gelatine from time to time. But the thing that counts is:

If everyone does a bit, and how much that is depends on their willpower, them it will eventually become something huge. And it is good, to not harm life, if it is possible to avoid that.

 

[Alucrid]

Real vegans would become Jains.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

One please.

 

[crazy monkey]

Good for you dude. you can have pretty healthy life style.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

One please.

Take away all the meat and that's an awesome sandwich.

 

[Bisnic]

Does some people really believe not eating meat makes you more healthy? Seriously? Meat isn't all about burgers or bacon.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

My friend decided to become a vegetarian because of his new girlfriend. To his defense, she is really hot.

 

[Alucrid]

Does some people really believe not eating meat makes you more healthy? Seriously? Meat isn't all about burgers or bacon.

Eating meat doesn't magically make you healthy, nor does not eating meat magically make you unhealthy or vice versa.

 

[Bisnic]

Eating meat doesn't magically make you healthy, nor does not eating meat magically make you unhealthy or vice versa.

I'm aware of that, i just find it funny that some vegeterians think they have a more healthy life since they have stopped eating meat. Sure, if you were eating Big Macs 3 times a week, i guess that would be the case.

 

[Get'sMad]

I was a vegetarian for awhile, then I went back just cause I like to try a lot of different foods and eat at a shit ton of restaurants and for the fact I really do enjoy eating meat. The best thing that came out of being a vegetarian for me was that it gave my diet a nice variety of non-meat meals to eat. Even though I consume meat again, meat isn't a main/regular staple of my daily diet.

Having been both a vegetarian and not one and heard all the crap you get from both sides I've learned that I really could give a fuck less what anyone chooses to eat anymore. Eat what you wanna eat and just not give a fuck what other people think.

 

[Mudkips]

He didn't really try then. Vegans and vegetarians don't have to supplement any more than any omnivore.

This guy is vegan:

Vegetarians DO have to supplement.

Many of our food products (including vegetarian and vegan products) are fortified by the manufacturer, so people are supplementing without knowing it.

Humans can not create complete proteins on their own - they have to consume all the necessary amino acids to build them. In the right proportion. At the same time. You need complete proteins to function. You need intake of complete proteins when you are growing, adding or replacing tissue, etc.

Most "vegetarians" eat fish, eggs, dairy, etc. Complete proteins, check.

For actual vegetarians, the typical source for complete proteins today, for example, is the soybean. However, the beans have to be heavily processed to be viable as a dietary source of complete protein unless you consume mass quantities. Such processing is a relatively modern invention.

There are only a handful of combinations of unprocessed non-meats that give you all the amino acids required to make complete proteins, and they have to be eaten at the same time to be of any use. The Aztecs were made possible by the combination of flour and corn in the region.

 

[Kung Foo Kid]

Real vegans would become Jains.

Being Vegan is only based on your type of food consumption. Ideologies of animal cruelty are personal and not a definition of Vegans.

 

[EatChildren]

Dumb and wrong.

Just looking at some jokes and close-to-braindead statements made in this thread by omnivores is enough to disprove it. You're experiencing confirmation bias.

Assholes are everywhere and come from all sorts of backgrounds and personal opinions. I get enough of that bullshit getting lectured about being an elitist lawless cyclist by drivers who are the ones doing the lecturing while going 10 mph over the limit on highways and rarely using turn signals. See what I mean?

I can only assume you didn't read the post where I respected the vegetarian decisions and lifestyle, and that I was referring specifically to elitist pricks who happen to use their lifestyle as means of unnecessarily degrading other people, as I cant see why you'd be such an asshole in reply.

 

[dinazimmerman]

It's a very good argument and the bolded was how I reasoned when eating animals. But the first part of your post is kind of like the fallacious argument of how you shouldn't vote in elections as your singular vote will almost never decide anything.

It's not a fallacious argument. For people who don't have a feeling of civic duty / don't care about social welfare, voting in an election is almost never rational (and when I say almost never I mean 99.9999% of the time). And even if you do care about social welfare, if you don't believe that it's likely that your preferred candidate winning will significantly increase social welfare, then it's not rational to vote either. "Rational" is a key word here; I'm NOT saying that no moral justification for voting exists.

It's true that animals will still be slaughtered and killed in the same quantities if I stop eating meat but my decision will still affect the entire industry - even if it's a minuscule change..

The change won't be miniscule. There won't be any change whatsoever. Decreasing your demand for animal meat to zero won't affect the price of animal meat, which is ultimately what decides how many animals are raised and killed for food. So the industry will be completely oblivious to your individual decision.

If I don't become a vegetarian and don't announce it out in hopes of inspiring others that are on the verge of becoming vegetarians anyway then there simply cannot be a change.

There can be change. Actually, change is already underway. But your decision to stop eating hamburgers isn't going to contribute significantly to that change. It's just going to help you feel less guilty about the slaughter of animals, and that's a perfectly fine reason to stop eating animal meat, but as I said before, unless you inspire a LOT of people, your decision will be purely inconsequential.

"Be the change you want to see in the world" is a cute enough saying, but it's really stupid.

Lol, utilitarianism, the most simple minded of consequentialism.

Is it so difficult to believe that moral acts have inherent value?

It's not difficult for me to believe. I'm a moral relativist, so I don't think utilitarianism is superior to absolutism or other forms of consequentialism. The reason I bring up utilitarianism is that the most famous ethicists that defend vegetarianism are utilitarians.

By the way, if you're not a utilitarian, how do you justify vegetarianism? By claiming that "It's wrong to harm animals" is a self-evident/divinely-revealed truth? But if you claim that, can't I just as easily claim that "It's perfectly fine to eat animals" is a self-evident/divinely-revealed truth? The debate can end there with both of us agreeing to disagree, but if you want the debate to progress, I can ask you: "Why do you think it's wrong to harm animals?" You're inevitably going to have to answer "Because animals are sentient and feel pain when harmed, and it's morally wrong to make any sentient being feel pain!" in which case you've just reverted back to utilitarianism, and my original critique applies.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I can only assume you didn't read the post where I respected the vegetarian decisions and lifestyle, and that I was referring specifically to elitist pricks who happen to use their lifestyle as means of unnecessarily degrading other people, as I cant see why you'd be such an asshole in reply.

Almost all people are assholes regardless of anything. There's no reason to single any group out. Anyone can be elitist and lecture. Being a vegetarian isn't a prerequisite.

As always, replace the chosen subject with "blacks" or "women" and see how it comes off. In fact, you even pulled out the "many of my friends are vegetarians" cliche right from the start before going off on how some of them are dicks, which I found funny as hell.

 

[DJ_Lae]

I could never go full vegetarian (I love the taste of meat too much) but over the past few years I've definitely been eating more vegetarian meals than I used to.

It's nice for a change of pace, often cheaper (I only have to buy meat when it's on sale), and forces you to be a little more creative when cooking, be it with spices to trick people into thinking there's meat or using a certain combination of grains and legumes so that you don't really miss the meat at all.

The only thing I'll actively avoid is tofu because I can't stand the texture, regardless of the firmness or method of cooking it.

 

[EatChildren]

Anyone can be elitist and lecture. Being a vegetarian isn't a prerequisite.

Good thing I didn't imply this. I can see the angle you're going for though, so okay? Thanks for the heads-up?

 

[John Dunbar]

Vegetarians DO have to supplement.

Many of our food products (including vegetarian and vegan products) are fortified by the manufacturer, so people are supplementing without knowing it.

Humans can not create complete proteins on their own - they have to consume all the necessary amino acids to build them. In the right proportion. At the same time. You need complete proteins to function. You need intake of complete proteins when you are growing, adding or replacing tissue, etc.

Most "vegetarians" eat fish, eggs, dairy, etc. Complete proteins, check.

For actual vegetarians, the typical source for complete proteins today, for example, is the soybean. However, the beans have to be heavily processed to be viable as a dietary source of complete protein unless you consume mass quantities. Such processing is a relatively modern invention.

There are only a handful of combinations of unprocessed non-meats that give you all the amino acids required to make complete proteins, and they have to be eaten at the same time to be of any use. The Aztecs were made possible by the combination of flour and corn in the region.

I can't claim to be an expert, but I once had a sort of a teacher who was a vegan, and she said the only supplements she needed to take were B-12. She was one of them hardcore food nuts, so I assume she knew what she was talking about, plus she seemed alive and healthy.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Vegetarians DO have to supplement.

Many of our food products (including vegetarian and vegan products) are fortified by the manufacturer, so people are supplementing without knowing it.

Humans can not create complete proteins on their own - they have to consume all the necessary amino acids to build them. In the right proportion. At the same time. You need complete proteins to function. You need intake of complete proteins when you are growing, adding or replacing tissue, etc.

Most "vegetarians" eat fish, eggs, dairy, etc. Complete proteins, check.

For actual vegetarians, the typical source for complete proteins today, for example, is the soybean. However, the beans have to be heavily processed to be viable as a dietary source of complete protein unless you consume mass quantities. Such processing is a relatively modern invention.

There are only a handful of combinations of unprocessed non-meats that give you all the amino acids required to make complete proteins, and they have to be eaten at the same time to be of any use. The Aztecs were made possible by the combination of flour and corn in the region.

There are many kinds of beans with loads of protein. Same with nuts. Almonds, peanuts, peanut butter.

You're overestimating the importance of constant complete protein intake.

Good thing I didn't imply this. I can see the angle you're going for though, so okay? Thanks for the heads-up?

Yes you did. And you'd feel anyone else did if they gave the exact same type of post about things black people or women do.

As long as you recognize that singling out and lecturing about a group for perceived behavior is unfair no matter what it's about, it's okay.

 

[RetroGreg]

My wife is a vegetarian although she will eat seafood occasionally. I tried, but couldn't keep it up after 3 months. Good luck.

 

[Alucrid]

There are many kinds of beans with loads of protein. Same with nuts. Almonds, peanuts, peanut butter.

You're overestimating the importance of constant complete protein intake.

Yes you did. And you'd feel anyone else did if they gave the exact same type of post about things black people or women do.

As long as you recognize that singling out and lecturing about a group for perceived behavior is unfair no matter what it's about, it's okay.

I don't quite know what you're getting on about. I thought he was separating people who vegetarians/vegans from the people who are vegetarian/vegan and constantly bring it up and shove it in your face. He wasn't saying that all vegetarians or vegans have the holierthanthou attitude, but the ones that do have that attitude are the most annoying, as it would apply to anyone like that in a certain group.

 

[Hilbert]

I admire vegetarians, but I enjoy meat a bit too much to give it up myself. I do try to cut down, but purely for health reasons.

I have as a child raised animals from birth to on the plate, including killing them butchering them myself. If the idea of killing an animal to eat it bothered me, I would be a vegetarian by now.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

More meat for me!

Spoiler

I did it for unterGAF

 

[the_log_ride]

:lol

While I'm a bit skeptical that the OP is serious, I wish him luck in his endeavor.

 

[Interfectum]

Instead of becoming vegetarian your money would be better spent on buying organic, cage free meat.

You are never going to stop or even put a dent in the consumption of meat but you can encourage and support local / regional meat products.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

it would apply to anyone like that in a certain group.

Exactly.

There's just no point in advising "beware asshole vegetarians and don't become one," because that's what anyone does regarding shitty people of any type anyway. I just hate underrepresented minorities with ideology getting chewed out for shit that everyone does. They're easy targets.

 

[EatChildren]

Yes you did. And you'd feel anyone else did if they gave the exact same type of post about things black people or women do.

I did not imply that being a vegetarian was a prerequisite to elitism.

Again, I see your angle, but if you want to get pissy about it that's your problem.

I don't quite know what you're getting on about. I thought he was separating people who vegetarians/vegans from the people who are vegetarian/vegan and constantly bring it up and shove it in your face. He wasn't saying that all vegetarians or vegans have the holierthanthou attitude, but the ones that do have that attitude are the most annoying, as it would apply to anyone like that in a certain group.

This is exactly what I was saying.

 

[FutureZombie]

It's a very popular stereotype that vegetarians/vegans are holier than thou types who like to pick fights with anyone eating meat, but I have never seen one of those people in my entire life.

I think it's more likely that many meat eaters like to put vegetarians down, and since we do absolutely nothing to bother them, they have to come up with an insult that has no basis in reality.

The "Anti-Meat Nazi" is a purely media-created fantasy. These people don't exist in everyday life.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I'm aware of that, i just find it funny that some vegeterians think they have a more healthy life since they have stopped eating meat. Sure, if you were eating Big Macs 3 times a week, i guess that would be the case.

And what if they do? Dumb argument.

 

[EatChildren]

The "Anti-Meat Nazi" is a purely media-created fantasy. These people don't exist in everyday life.

They exist, just as much as the Pro-Meat Nazis do.

 

[Inflammable Slinky]

It's not difficult for me to believe. I'm a moral relativist, so I don't think utilitarianism is superior to absolutism or other forms of consequentialism. The reason I bring up utilitarianism is that the most famous ethicists that defend vegetarianism are utilitarians.

By the way, if you're not a utilitarian, how do you justify vegetarianism? By claiming that "It's wrong to harm animals" is a self-evident/divinely-revealed truth? But if you claim that, can't I just as easily claim that "It's perfectly fine to eat animals" is a self-evident/divinely-revealed truth? The debate can end there with both of us agreeing to disagree, but if you want the debate to progress, I can ask you: "Why do you think it's wrong to harm animals?" You're inevitably going to have to answer "Because animals are sentient and feel pain when harmed, and it's morally wrong to make any sentient being feel pain!" in which case you've just reverted back to utilitarianism, and my original critique applies.

Well, for starters, I believe in deontological ethics. So while yes, I do believe causing suffering in animals is inherently wrong, this does not force me into utilitarianism. The Good is found in the act itself (in this case choosing not to eat animals and feed into systemic abuse and death) and not the results (one less animal is killed).

Now, for existence of morals themselves, I'd rather not get into the whole debate now and just say I believe that metaphysical "stuff" does exist in reality and that moral truths are included in that.

Also, if you are a relativist, why are we arguing? We're both right aren't we? lol just messing with ya

 

[CrankyJay]

Is this serious or is it just to fill your daily thread quota?

:lol

 

[Rubenov]

You might be doing 'better' in one area, but I guaranty you're failing in another.

I can guaranty you are failing in spelling.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

love meat but I don't like how the animals are raised and treated.

 

[xelios]

And this is why so many people find vegetarians annoying. Public announcements + guilt trips etc.

 

[EatChildren]

I can guaranty you are failing in spelling.

No shit.

 

[grumble]

Except for anyone that lives near the ocean, where they dont need to manage their valuable supply of meat at all.

They sure do need to manage it, they'll get a rude awakening when they start running out of seafood. We all will.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15532333/

No more seafood for anyone, starting 2050. Good job humans!

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

And this is why so many people find vegetarians annoying. Public announcements + guilt trips etc.

It's a troll thread, bro. For exactly the reasons you observe.

The resulting arguments throughout the thread have mostly been fueled by meat eaters while vegetarians try to clear up the bullshit.

 

[Lamel]

I was hoping this thread would have a plethora of meat dishes that would make OP regret his decision.

/disappointed.

 

[otake]

Now that's a real luxury.

 

[Desperado]

Good for you, but please don't call yourself a vegetarian if you're going to eat fish. The persistent common misconception that vegetarians eat fish (or chicken, etc.) really damages the core message of vegetarianism -- not eating animals.

PS - Go vegan!

 

[EatChildren]

They sure do need to manage it, they'll get a rude awakening when they start running out of seafood. We all will.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15532333/

No more seafood for anyone, starting 2050. Good job humans!

We were talking about poorer ocean based cultures, not nations with the means to invest tons of money and work into fishing and food production.

I'd suspect those responsible for over-fishing are almost exclusively more established and well off nations who do have the means for mass production of ocean food.

 

[wayward archer]

And this is why so many people find vegetarians annoying. Public announcements + guilt trips etc.

Vegetarians kinda have to tell people they are such if they have friends they plan on eating with.

"Hey lets go get barbeque!"

"I'm a vegetarian"

"Why you gotta be judging me?!"

Often times it seems the backlash against the mere declaration is worse than anything a vegetarian does.

Come to think of it i've never actually met a 'militant' vegetarian, I'm sure they exist, but I guess i've just been lucky. I have run into a militant vegan... but still seems to be a rarity to me. (i'm not counting PETA and such, never actually met any of those attractive naked young ladies in person but i'm sure they're quite determined about their cause).

Good for you, but please don't call yourself a vegetarian if you're going to eat fish. The persistent common misconception that vegetarians eat fish (or chicken, etc.) really damages the core message of vegetarianism -- not eating animals.

PS - Go vegan!

It's found its way into common usage so I think we're stuck with it. Besides, "Pescetarian" sounds like someone who just really likes Joe Pesci movies.

 

[iirate]

Good for you! I went vegan from being a full omni in July '08. It was the best decision I've ever made. I would suggest it for the reasons you've described, and I still do, but you already seem fairly aware of the horrors of the dairy/egg industry.

Anyways,

And this is why so many people find vegetarians annoying. Public announcements + guilt trips etc.

Here's how I handle things. If I'm offered non-vegan food, I politely decline, and don't bring up that I'm vegan unless the issue is pressed. I do however have 3 vegan shirts in my clothing rotation. For the longest time, I couldn't imagine doing this, just because I didn't want people to think I was doing it for attention. However, over these 2 years, there have been 2 co-workers (working at a pizza chain nonetheless!) that upon learning I was vegan, became curious and eventually made the switch themselves (unfortunately, 1 of them is borderline militant nazi vegan now). From there, they have each influenced someone else. I then realized that even though my actual decision to avoid animal products is token, it can influence others, but those on the edge (as I was for years) really could use someone to talk to.

Oh, and there can't be a guilt trip unless there is some feeling of guilt arising. If you are confident in your omni-ness, just ignore the jackass that is attacking you, and let his actions speak for themselves.

 

[Alucrid]

Good for you! I went vegan from being a full omni in July '08. It was the best decision I've ever made. I would suggest it for the reasons you've described, and I still do, but you already seem fairly aware of the horrors of the dairy/egg industry.

Anyways,



Here's how I handle things. If I'm offered non-vegan food, I politely decline, and don't bring up that I'm vegan unless the issue is pressed. I do however have 3 vegan shirts in my clothing rotation. For the longest time, I couldn't imagine doing this, just because I didn't want people to think I was doing it for attention. However, over these 2 years, there have been 2 co-workers (working at a pizza chain nonetheless!) that upon learning I was vegan, became curious and eventually made the switch themselves (unfortunately, 1 of them is borderline militant nazi vegan now). From there, they have each influenced someone else. I then realized that even though my actual decision to avoid animal products is token, it can influence others, but those on the edge (as I was for years) really could use someone to talk to.

Like, "Oh, is that leather? I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE DEAD COWS."

 

[iirate]

Well, I've heard him telling some of my omni co-workers that they have to be out of their mind to continue living the way they do. I can't help but to point out to him that he's in his 20s and has been vegan for no more than a couple of months. I can't stand absolutist BS, no matter what the intent.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Being a vegetarian for me at least would be really easy when I think about it. I eat chicken for lunch and meat at dinner, so I can always substitute the two for pasta and beans and other foods.

 

[beje]

Being a vegetarian for me at least would be really easy when I think about it. I eat chicken for lunch and meat at dinner, so I can always substitute the two for pasta and beans and other foods.

You can also switch to rice, grilled veggies or even make your own seitan out of gluten to easily add protein to any preparation.