oh, and for launch games
Just a friendly reminder that gifs aren't really the most accurate means of graphics comparisons.
What generally comes across loudest in them are the artistic qualities of a game.
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I've just realized how big of a jump graphically PS3 to PS4 was
- Thread starter Memento
- Start date
Just a friendly reminder that gifs aren't really the most accurate means of graphics comparisons.
What generally comes across loudest in them are the artistic qualities of a game.
These are baked reflections, right? Because they don't make any sense.
And honestly 1080p GTAV is not that far behind it. I actually think current gen GTAV is more impressive than SS.
Diminishing returns are very real.
Lion Heart
Banned
It's a huge jump because devs are basically creating any environment they want now.
We actually get real forests this gen! Remember how bad foliage was last gen, especially grass.
I just love watching the progression of tech and graphics, I always sit there and analyze all the special stuff devs put in the game and appreciate all the work that goes into asset creation.
Even something like Deus ex which isn't a graphical power house, I love looking at the architecture and all the little details of the world. And because it takes place in the future, i enjoy seeing the tech they create and make up for that world.
It's more than just prettier graphics, it's a more believable world.
We actually get real forests this gen! Remember how bad foliage was last gen, especially grass.
I just love watching the progression of tech and graphics, I always sit there and analyze all the special stuff devs put in the game and appreciate all the work that goes into asset creation.
Even something like Deus ex which isn't a graphical power house, I love looking at the architecture and all the little details of the world. And because it takes place in the future, i enjoy seeing the tech they create and make up for that world.
It's more than just prettier graphics, it's a more believable world.
RipperGrim
Member
I thought it was complete bullshit when people were saying the jump wasn't that big when games like Killzone and Second Son were launch titles, just having them in 1080p was a massive difference.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Eh, I realized it with the first trailers of KZSF, Infamous SS, The Order, etc. Those games were so clearly a generation ahead of anything on PS3.
Giant Panda
Member
There have and will continue to be diminishing returns though.
dampflokfreund
Banned
Really? Can you give specific examples please?
Pretty sure that PGR gif is offscreen footage which is why it looks inaccurate to the game's visuals, not because it's a gif.Just a friendly reminder that gifs aren't really the most accurate means of graphics comparisons.
What generally comes across loudest in them are the artistic qualities of a game.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
There's certainly a leap, it's just the smallest leap between generations imo.
I also don't feel we're seeing the same kind of leap between first and second gen PS4/XB1 games (Killzone, Infamous, Ryse, The Order, FH2, Driveclub) and the current crop like we did on PS3/360. Hopefully Pro / Scorpio will allow that to change.
I also don't feel we're seeing the same kind of leap between first and second gen PS4/XB1 games (Killzone, Infamous, Ryse, The Order, FH2, Driveclub) and the current crop like we did on PS3/360. Hopefully Pro / Scorpio will allow that to change.
I thought uc4 was the best looking game id ever seen until I started playing Rise of the Tomb Raider on PC last night on max settings. Holy crap, tomb raider is my new standard. Once they bring out the hdr update I think it will be king for me.
Fantasy Final
Member
3 Years? It took me 5secs to realise how huge the leap between SNES and N64 was when I first saw SM64 in 1996.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Of course there are, and of course there will continue to be. But some people seem to think "diminishing returns" means (or use it to mean) "no noticeable difference". Which it does not.
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
The leap was evident day one. 2K14 on PS3 vs PS4 was a quantum leap in visual fidelity and animation. Ryse and Killzone looked demonstronably better than PS3 titles. Stuff like DC and Uncharted 4 boggle the mind. Uncharted 4's animation, particularly facial animation, is unbelievably good. Just impossible to do on PS3.
Lionel Richie
Member
It's the smallest leap between console generations by far, but it's still noticeable. Maybe it's because we're fast approaching uncanny valley, but I find myself caring less and less about graphical prowess.
Remember Me is an early example that was calling itself PBR. I say "calling itself" because PBR isn't really a switch that got flipped where none of the ideas behind it had existed before (or where it became totally thorough after people started using the term).
Proportion is what matters, and in that respect it's by far the smallest resolution jump in 3D console generations. 720p to 1080p is barely more than doubling. 480p to 720p was a tripling.
But the more interesting question is around how pixels are actually being sampled and resolved.
The Hermit
Member
Depends on the game actually.
Dragons Dogma feels old while Dark Souls/Witcher 2 feel like game from this gen
And I can change playing my WiiU to the PC and it feels like a small step down and not jarring, unlike Wii vs PS3, which is huge.
Dragons Dogma feels old while Dark Souls/Witcher 2 feel like game from this gen
And I can change playing my WiiU to the PC and it feels like a small step down and not jarring, unlike Wii vs PS3, which is huge.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Just a friendly reminder that gifs aren't really the most accurate means of graphics comparisons.
What generally comes across loudest in them are the artistic qualities of a game.
Have a video then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbhZUmk9f9k
We are talking about a PS3 vs PS4 difference, and if you compare PS3 GTAV and Infamous Second Son, well...
I remember my cuz coming over seeing nba2k14 on PS4 for the 1st time. He was like it don't look that much different than PS3. I laughed because I chalked it up as hating, being that he was still on PS3. Long story short. He apologized pretty quick and became a PS4 owner lol
NBA 2K showed me the leap off bat. So I never understood what some gamers were talking about.
NBA 2K showed me the leap off bat. So I never understood what some gamers were talking about.
digitalrelic
Banned
Yes, this has become really clear to me recently as well.
This gen is a massive jump compared to last gen. Especially when remembering that almost all last gen games ran at 720p or less, with little-to-no anti-aliasing solution in place, and many games had irregular framerates.
It's a fucking gigantic difference.
People tend to remember last-gen games by the 1080P, post-processed bullshots that publishers provide, when in reality the actual gameplay looked much worse. This is what The Last of Us looked like in-game, and frequently at sub 30fps:
The image has been scaled to 1080p to properly compare to the next shot.
This is what Uncharted 4 looks like in-game, at a nearly locked 30fps:
Diminishing returns? Psh.
This gen is a massive jump compared to last gen. Especially when remembering that almost all last gen games ran at 720p or less, with little-to-no anti-aliasing solution in place, and many games had irregular framerates.
It's a fucking gigantic difference.
People tend to remember last-gen games by the 1080P, post-processed bullshots that publishers provide, when in reality the actual gameplay looked much worse. This is what The Last of Us looked like in-game, and frequently at sub 30fps:
The image has been scaled to 1080p to properly compare to the next shot.
This is what Uncharted 4 looks like in-game, at a nearly locked 30fps:
Diminishing returns? Psh.
I still feel diminishing returns is true, especially when comparing PS4 to Xbox one. The PS4 has like 40% better gpu, not very noticeable imo.
Comparing UC3 to UC4 yes there is a huge difference but I still feel it's smaller than going from sd to hd last gen.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
The leap isn't as big and the returns are diminishing from generation to generation.
Yes, this has become really clear to me recently as well.
This gen is a massive jump compared to last gen. Especially when remembering when almost all last gen games ran at 720P or less, with little-to-no anti-aliasing solution in place, and many games had irregular framerates.
It's a fucking gigantic difference.
People tend to remember last-gen games by the 1080P, post-processed bullshots that publishers provide. This is what The Last of Us looked like in-game, and frequently at sub 30fps:
The image has been scaled to 1080p to properly compare to the next shot.
This is what Uncharted 4 looks like in-game, at a nearly locked 30fps:
Diminishing returns? Psh.
TLOU2 with uc4 level visuals is gunna be glorious.
dl77
Member
The only thing that's disappointed me this generation has been that even a locked 30fps/1080p seems to be a struggle for a lot of developers.
However, I think that's always going to be there as long as we have consoles as developers will always need to trade between visual quality versus performance. But hell, if the trade off for the visuals that ND push out in UC4 is a few dropped frames here and there then that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!
However, I think that's always going to be there as long as we have consoles as developers will always need to trade between visual quality versus performance. But hell, if the trade off for the visuals that ND push out in UC4 is a few dropped frames here and there then that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!
Ok, fine.
Well, I personally don't require one, as I own Shadowfall, and so know exactly how it looks on the console.
Even via YouTube video though, the perceived graphics are notably less convincing than a gif makes it appear, as suddenly you're able to notice areas of lower detail, aliasing, etc. In a gif your mind starts filling in the blanks, and usually opts for a very flattering interpretation of the things you can't make it clearly.
"Diminishing returns" doesn't imply something doesn't look notably better (I can't believe we're still seeing it treated as such). Go compare that TLOU PS3 shot, to any comparable game on the PS2. Remember to apply to same scaling too.
This is why the visuals in Persona 5 are... kind of a disappointment to me. I wish so badly that this game wasn't developed from the ground up for PS3. You can definitely tell in a lot of the textures, which are muddy and ugly up close. Textures on really mundane objects / signage / posters / food stuff is something Persona 4 and Tokyo Mirage Sessions did so well, I was hoping P5 would really take that to the next level. It's still pretty good, but it's not amazing like it should have been.
At the beginning of the gen the concerns were motivated because of cross gen titles.
When you looked at games like Dragon's Age Inquisition, Destiny, Assassin's Creed Black Flag, the Watch Dogs downgrade story plus tons of remasters everywhere, there was clearly a motivated sense that the jump was not big enough.
There were a few standouts like Killzone or Ryse but they seemed exceptions.
Then things started to change with games like Assassin's Creed Unity (besides the initial issues that were patched), The Order 1886, The Witcher 3, MGSV, Uncharted 4, FFXV and more titles. And seems like the best is yet to come with games like Horizon, Spiderman, God of War, The Last of Us 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, Beyond coming out in the future.
And btw yes when I went back to TLOU remastered to try HDR and the higher res on the Pro I was shocked for how poly it looked with tons of ugly textures and overall flat lighting compared to Uncharted 4. And it was the remaster...not even the original PS3 version at 720p 30fps.
When you looked at games like Dragon's Age Inquisition, Destiny, Assassin's Creed Black Flag, the Watch Dogs downgrade story plus tons of remasters everywhere, there was clearly a motivated sense that the jump was not big enough.
There were a few standouts like Killzone or Ryse but they seemed exceptions.
Then things started to change with games like Assassin's Creed Unity (besides the initial issues that were patched), The Order 1886, The Witcher 3, MGSV, Uncharted 4, FFXV and more titles. And seems like the best is yet to come with games like Horizon, Spiderman, God of War, The Last of Us 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, Beyond coming out in the future.
And btw yes when I went back to TLOU remastered to try HDR and the higher res on the Pro I was shocked for how poly it looked with tons of ugly textures and overall flat lighting compared to Uncharted 4. And it was the remaster...not even the original PS3 version at 720p 30fps.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Ok, fine.
Well, I personally don't require one, as I own Shadowfall, and so know exactly how it looks on the console.
Even via YouTube video though, the perceived graphics are notably less convincing than a gif makes it appear, as suddenly you're able to notice areas of lower detail, aliasing, etc. In a gif your mind starts filling in the blanks, and usually opts for a very flattering interpretation of the things you can't make it clearly.
Here's a HD video of PGR4, not cherrypicked gifs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-q4gvY5WpM
It does look good, but the nearest closest thing for a driving game launch title, Forza 4 far eclipse it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLMAvMZlCMY
Lionel Richie
Member
But on the bright side Persona 5 is going to age better than Uncharted 4. Highly stylised graphics always age better than high fidelity ones.
Again, these are two games I own, and in this case have played both fairly recently. I certainly wouldn't say that Forza 4 looks better than PGR4 from a graphical standpoint. Especially not when factoring the weather (and nightime) effects that FM4 lacked entirely. Of course, as FM4 is constant locked 60fps vs PGR4's fluctuating 30fps, I'm willing to say that FM4 is the more impressive game all considered.
However... how are you going to call the 3rd Forza on the platform the "closest thing for a driving game launch title"? Forza Motorsport 2 was the first on the platform, and that looked so much worse than even PGR3 (which was at launch) that it's not even funny.
Anyway, my point wasn't to argue that PGR4 looks anywhere near as good as KZ:SF. It was merely to state that gifs make many games look far better than they do in actual gameplay.
EDIT: Wait... were we supposed to be discussing Need for Speed Rivals here? If so, that actually exists on last gen consoles... looking not too shabby by comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbtigNvJATY
TheJollyCorner
Member
This gen has certainly impressed, but hot damn... PS1 to PS2 was probably the most impressive to me.
I remember playing Tekken Tag and Madden '01 on launch day and my brain was melting. Then Silent Hill 2, MGS2, Devil May Cry, and FFX (all from just a graphical standpoint) the next year... it was amazing.
I remember playing Tekken Tag and Madden '01 on launch day and my brain was melting. Then Silent Hill 2, MGS2, Devil May Cry, and FFX (all from just a graphical standpoint) the next year... it was amazing.
digitalrelic
Banned
UncleSporky
Member
Heh, people trying to post screenshots like "look at this incredible difference!" and it's so obvious that both games are way closer to each other than every difference from past generations.
To the point where lesser PS4 screenshots still look worse than better PS3 screenshots.
Even "bad" TLOU above is seriously not far off from Uncharted.
To the point where lesser PS4 screenshots still look worse than better PS3 screenshots.
Even "bad" TLOU above is seriously not far off from Uncharted.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
I believe we've reached the spot where simple captures or even gifs aren't enough to show the difference. When you're actually playing it becomes much evident. The difference is huge.
Funny joke!
Not until 16K and when games will look better than the real world
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I actually disagree, I've been jumping between the highest of the high end PC titles to launch 360 titles for the past few months and it all looks staggeringly good to me. Maybe that's just be being easily impressed, but I'm basically looking at every game and being gobsmacked. But the consequence of this is that I'm roughly as impressed by Uncharted 4 as I am by, say, the Gears of War games on 360.
I guess the variance between levels of how impressed I am has gone down significantly. It's now all roughly equally impressive to me, with degrees of surprise and interest in the technology. Art styles have colaesced and we are in a period where even going a decade back, the visual style isn't hampered by technology and basically anything is possible. (Minus performance concerns on the old consoles of course.)
I expected the purchase of the high end PC to make me more of a graphics snob but actually I find myself thinking it all looks incredibly good.
I guess the variance between levels of how impressed I am has gone down significantly. It's now all roughly equally impressive to me, with degrees of surprise and interest in the technology. Art styles have colaesced and we are in a period where even going a decade back, the visual style isn't hampered by technology and basically anything is possible. (Minus performance concerns on the old consoles of course.)
I expected the purchase of the high end PC to make me more of a graphics snob but actually I find myself thinking it all looks incredibly good.
The improvements are far from marginal. This comes into play especially when you are playing the game and not looking at static screenshots. Shaders, lighting, animation, etc. The jump has been just as large as from previous generations. I can make any generation not look like that large of a jump. I can post Resistance 1 screenshots and compare it to God of War 2. It took the PS3 time to really start coming on graphically, especially due to it's complexity.
Nice to know. I've wondered why I never thought it looked all that. First time I saw it I thought it was a PS2 remaster or something like that, then folks started raving about the graphics.
The characters and animations are good though.
Seems like a pretty linear progression to me.
Really?
I guess we'll just have to disagree then... because that FFXII image is so lacking in clarity, that I'm struggling to make out what much of it is supposed to be. I couldn't tell you what material is supposed to be depicted by most of that scene. That may be partially down to the scene being complete fantasy though... which I imagine is a result of their not really being any convincing real-world comparisons you'd be comfortable placing here.
In both the latter two, there's sufficient detail for everything in the scene to reasonably resemble what would be their real-life counterpart, which then leaves less room for improvement between them
ViolentP
Member
Ya gotta believe in something.