Backfoggen
Banned
The hardware tessellation unit found in SM5 chips is kind of a big deal. Expect it to get used a lot next-gen.
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Iwata Asks: Wii U
- Thread starter Drago
- Start date
The hardware tessellation unit found in SM5 chips is kind of a big deal. Expect it to get used a lot next-gen.
Projectjustice
Banned
You just gave The_Lump a perfect example that supports his post. Yes, Gamecube wasnt a huge sucess and that was when Nintendo was just doing what everyone else was doing hardware wise.
To add to this, Miyamoto himself was unhappy during the Gamecube years because Nintendo was just following everyone else's lead.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/210405/miyamoto-gamecube-made-me-very-sad/
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
For me personally The gamecube was a much better system than the wii. I know i played my gc way more than wii. If your talking finacially sure, the wii kicked ass but doesn't mean much to me. Btw im not asking nintendo to make the same mistakes sony made. Who can honestly say that they wouldnt have enjoyed a 360 level wii back in 2006 more than what we got other than Nintendo stock holders?
Oh god I'm sounding lie amirox lol
MisterHero
Super Member
Assuming Nintendo's own output was unaffected, I really doubt a HD-capable machine back then would have changed the minds of certain major 3rd Parties.
All I really expect from Nintendo is to make games that look and play better than they did the generation before- and in most respects, they do.
Granted I still play on an SD television, Wii fans who've played as much on HD sets might feel differently.
A guy with the creative mind of Miyamoto was probably getting tired of traditional controller inputs by that time.
Dictator93
Member
Computer vs Geometry shaders is kinda big imo.
Projectjustice
Banned
All i read is me me me me here, you arent the only Nintendo gamer on the planet.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Honestly I think the GC wasn't successful because Nintendo had the ps2 to deal with. The ps2 did what the Snes did so well. Great first party games and every 3rd party was making games for them as well. Also the GC launched a year later with no real Mario game until Super Mario Sunshine which was a disappointment and it didn't play DVDs.
HD along with Nintendo's asenine online service is what killed the Wii's 3rd party support. Which thankfully they seem to have addressed this time around.
I would argue the gamecube failed because they weren't doing enough like the competition. Imagine a scenario where the GC had a proper DVD drive with move playing support and wasn't shaped like a purse and was not advertised in purple. I think it would have been a huge success.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Also the lack of a real good game with mass appeal at launch and long droughts between games really hurt the system. Fucking droughts! ugh....
Back to the topic. I wonder if there is anything down the line missing from the Wii U spec wise that will hamper the system in the future. Sure the Wii U might be weaker but will it be missing something along the lines of Wii not being HD, the GC lacking DVD or the n64 being cart based?
This is the first time in a while that Nintendo launches first.
I wouldn't wager on it. That's basically what the Xbox was. It had DVD Playback and did not have a handle and was advertised like it would make your balls drop and you could become real men and all that. And it sold about the same as the GC.
So, if the GameCube was an Xbox or ps2, it would have been successful. Huh...
Maybe soon he will be, but Nintendo's been on a post Wii slump from an investment standpoint
Gemüsepizza;43083346 said:
Besides you probably don't know what I'm talking about my point is that neither you nor I can't answer this trivial question. So any statement about how powerful Wii U is pure speculation and like you put it as a fact. Short: We don't know Jack so it would wise not to make bold statements.
plagiarize
Banned
hardware tessellation is not part of SM5. it IS part of the DX11 spec though, and it IS something that the Wii U is almost certainly capable of (as AMD have been putting hardware tesselators into their chipsets for a couple of generations before it was standardised in DX11). it's a nice effect but it isn't mind blowing.
Backfoggen
Banned
The 360 also has a hardware tessellation unit in it that's not used very much, only the newer GPUs made it feasible.
Also tessellation is not just an effect, that's just how we saw it used in PC ports until now as a tacked on effect. It will most likely be an integral part of 3D rendering next-gen.
Count me in your group. I'm always irritated by some Nintendo fans who heavily bet on downports. I think it's the least attractive scenario. It could happen in the first years of the PS4/720, but eventually it's not worth the effort.
I bought it when it was low, so it's nice to see a 4.6% surplus on my side, last I checked.codhand said:
I didn't know this either, but R700 seems to have a unique tessellator - not DX11 compliant, but very different from previous AMD tessellators.
Backfoggen
Banned
That's good for exclusive titles, but the fact that it's not DX11-compliant is a problem when it comes to ports.
But whatever it's all speculation at this point, they could use updated custom parts in the final console for all we know.
not really, since it won't be using directx anyway. If the tesselator is capable enough it shouldn't matter much if it works a bit different from the one in xbox720. All the rendering code needs to be rewritten anyway
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Is it possible to interpret the tessellation information as a normal map of sorts instead if the system isn't actually capable of it? Because I could see them skipping ports if they had to not only downgrade things here and there but also add things they didn't want to have at all, like normal maps, from scratch, just for that system. Alternatively the ports would look like ass with just the low poly models themselves and no enhancements. That's pretty much all that worries me about multi platform games on WiiU, I don't think any other tech is radically different in this manner between DX10 and 11 so down scaling should be simpler, unlike the Wii.
Backfoggen
Banned
That's what I meant by DX11-compliant. Not that they actually use DirectX for ports.
The HD4000s tessellator is a fixed function unit with a max tessellation value of 15, so it doesn't fit the DX11 spec, which is probably gonna be the standard for PS4/720 GPUs.
DX11 is programmable + max. tessellation value of 64 + the control shaders.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Don't forget Punch-Out!!
He's been involved with every game in the series since, even acting as a supervisor on Punch-Out for Wii, not to mention being the producer of Pilot Wings 64, Dr. Mario 64 and others.
And he does all that as a side job when he's not building consoles.
R E S P E C T
I played my Wii at least as much as the Gamecube. So...
Was it him or Uemura who operated the targets from behind the scenes when Yamauchi's laser pidgeon shooting gallery broke down?
Anyway, Takeda has been with Nintendo since day freaking one, pretty crazy if you think about it, being involved in the rebirth of the industry, and still working on the company's latest hardware. I can only imagine what the NES days seem like to these guys today.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Oldest man EVAR!
Assuming he was 30 years old when Nintendo started up, he's at least 153 years old. WOW.
sakipon
Member
It's the healthy sea food diet, I bet.
H_Prestige
Banned
I have a ps3 slim. It barely takes up any space, is quiet as a mouse, and I bet the extra electricity cost compared to the wii u is trivial.
I think some of you people have been drinking the nintendo kool-aid long and deep. Actually what am I saying, some of you definitely are drinking the kool-aid. The wii u being as small as it is is simply because nintendo wants to keep costs really, really low and their margins really, really high. That shit doesn't matter to me and I don't see why it matters to some of you (oh who am I kidding, I do know why it matters to a certain crowd). I see no benefit to a wii size console. I don't live in a closet and my TV stand is normal adult size. And besides, it's not even as small as it looks, considering the controller is almost the size of the system and the power brick and sensor bar you have to find space for.
I think some of you people have been drinking the nintendo kool-aid long and deep. Actually what am I saying, some of you definitely are drinking the kool-aid. The wii u being as small as it is is simply because nintendo wants to keep costs really, really low and their margins really, really high. That shit doesn't matter to me and I don't see why it matters to some of you (oh who am I kidding, I do know why it matters to a certain crowd). I see no benefit to a wii size console. I don't live in a closet and my TV stand is normal adult size. And besides, it's not even as small as it looks, considering the controller is almost the size of the system and the power brick and sensor bar you have to find space for.
The last PS3 slim revision before the Super Slim had an annoyingly loud disc drive.
I live in a small room with a gigantic Plasma TV. I'd rather not have a hulking game console that'll make my room anymore volcanic.
plagiarize
Banned
the traits of the PS3 slim are worthwhile to you, and to me. if the PS3 had been designed to meet those traits at launch it wouldn't be nearly as powerful as your slim now is, but that doesn't mean no one wants smaller more reliable quieter consoles.
i don't care why nintendo choose to make quiet compact reliable consoles, but i like such things. that's why i replaced my Phat PS3 with a slim despite it costing me PS2 BC.
i don't need to drink any cool aid to like small consoles. i like them whatever the name branded across them.
the controller size has nothing to do with the size of the system, espescially considering that the game pad is optional for a good amount of titles.
would i prefer if the Wii U could get closer to the graphics my PC outputs? of course. but i'm well beyond the fact that it can't. as i've said for years, so long as games look at least as good as first party Wii games do running at 720p in Dolphin, that is more than good enough for me, and the system is capable of much more than that.
the things that made Wii games look like ass aren't really about flops. they're about a terrible analogue output. they're about no HD output (because of a limited framebuffer). Wii games look terrible compared to 360 games because they have awful IQ and lack modern shading capabilities (again, nothing to do with flops).
3DS games don't look terrible compared to Vita games even though the power gap is probably equivalent. yes, Vita games look better, but nothing like how much better 360 games look over Wii games.
people can and do like different things. some of us genuinely value compact systems. that's why so many people on gaf get excited whenever microsoft or sony cut some of the heft of their systems. because it isn't just Nintendo fanboys that like a device to be compact.
Just like Carmack feels about displays and graphics these days.
H_Prestige
Banned
Nintendo chose a thermal/size envelope that compromised the system's power. They didn't have to make a monster PC or a launch ps3. They is plenty of room in the middle, but they are too obsessed with the Wii's dimensions. There's a point where making a console smaller and smaller becomes pointless and only results in a compromised product, and Wii U is past that point.
This isn't a portable we're talking about here, it's a box that sits on a shelf while you stare at a TV, not something you hold and carry around.
And yes, flops do matter. Don't try to pretend that poly starved Wii games can somehow magically stand up to a 360 game just because you ran it through some PC emulator. There's a world of difference between wii and ps3/360.
Do you own and operate this model? Because that's the exact same version I have, the one without all the LEDs. The only thing loud about the disc drive is loading/ejecting. Wii U will have the same problem, just like the Wii did.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Just commented on that in the specs thread. I didn't think about them putting both the CPU and GPU onto one MCM.
They have another picture pointing out which is which.
Good lord, never seen a launch CPU&GPU of that size, Nintendo's stock should shoot up on the back of this photographic evidence of stingy design of the Wii U.
I doubt very much Nintendo ever aimed for a high powered console with the Wii u. So no, its likely that the system's power was not compromised.
Nintendo's goals with the Wii U seem to be more focused on consumer affordability, low manufacturing costs, cool and quiet opperation, and an unobtrusive and small form factor. They seem to have nailed each and every point with the Wii U.
I doubt Nintendo's design goals were for anything 'powerful'.
A lot of people place value in small form factor and quiet and cool electronics. I myself am one of those people.
Exactly why that box should be small and unobtrusive, its a box and for 99% of the time it doesn't need to be noticed or have a presense. I certainly hated the original Xbox 360 for the sheer noise that bugger made, its ROM drive was incredibly noise to the point it made DVD playback annoying, and its fans my god they made my PC sound quiet.
BS flop measuring sticks like those touted by Sony and Microsoft do not. PS3 capable of 500glfops, yeah my ass any game ever comes close to that figure. Or the 200 million polygons both of the HD twins could draw, please find me a Xbox 360 or PS3 game that exceeds even 100 million.
Flops is only worth while when used to measure real world typical usage senarios. In no way were the flop numbers Sony and Microsoft touted realistic.
Wii was very profitable generating billions in profit for Nintendo
PS3 lost Sony lost billions
Xbox 360 scrapped through with a profit after years of consecutive hundred million - billion dollar losses
I doubt any console can be worse then the original xbox 360
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Why did Nintendo fuck up and not design a system that caters to me? Small, efficient, and reliable are stupid things to strive for.
I'm reducing complaints to this because I want you feel mad.
I'm reducing complaints to this because I want you feel mad.
Because they never learn.
"When will this company learn?"
Projectjustice
Banned
How do you know? You own a Wii U?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
This coupled with real-time GI being practical are the largest differences between WiiU and Orbis/Durango.
In the right hands this could very easily make a high visual disparity between the platforms. In theory this should have little impact on portability.
POWERSPHERE
Member
this is where such engineering and efficiency really pays off. Not turning your console into a lava box and killing itself.
I like this. They go deep in the zone.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
There is a happy medium between overheating powerhouse designs, and way too conservative little power designs. I think WiiU is much closer to that happy medium than Wii was. But still lacking to a degree.
If you're referring to the 160 GB model, then yes. You can google it and find folks who've complained about that very problem.
I will say i did own a previous slim model that was quiet as a bug.
The thing is, Nintendo does not want to have a >= $400 console, and this limits how powerful the components can be, which is highly correlated with how much power they draw.
I disagree. I think its exactly as conservative as the Wii was - look at the tiny little fan. Just that tech has moved on and you just get more for your money