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[Saint Gregory]

:lol

Both of the new tennis games use the sensor bar for calibration but Red Steel 2 seems to only require that you lay it flat for a second. It's probably up to the developer.

TWW is hated because it is a really bad Zelda game, the only notable thing about that game are the graphics. Aonuma should stop making Zelda games, he doesn't get it; and I didn't like Majora's Mask either; I liked PH only because of some of the harder and out of the box puzzles, because some parts of that game are really broken.

WTF?

 

[Raist]

:lol

Dude what the hell are you talking about exactly?

Didn't you see some WSR demos? Why do you think the game asks the player the point at the sensor bar at the beginning of each round?

Do a little research before throwing ":lol 's" around

 

[Ysiadmihi]

TWW is hated because it is a really bad Zelda game, the only notable thing about that game are the graphics. Aonuma should stop making Zelda games, he doesn't get it; and I didn't like Majora's Mask either; I liked PH only because of some of the harder and out of the box puzzles, because some parts of that game are really broken.

Majora's Mask by itself is reason enough that Zelda should remain in Aonuma's hands. I can only hope that some day we get another Zelda near it's greatness.

 

[jetjevons]

Its my most hated genre, i hate it with passion and am only buying HV's game to support them, but God FPS makes my blood boil, there's nothing new or creative about it,

Valve says hi.

 

[ajvizzgamer101]

What do you expect him to say, though?
That he thinks Natal and the Sony Wand are better than Motion+?

Well I doubt he would lie either. Microsoft and Sony have money to make this stuff work, Nintendo has a little bit of cash compared.

 

[agrajag]

I'm a rare beast who likes both TWW and TP but doesn't like Majora's Mask.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Its my most hated genre, i hate it with passion and am only buying HV's game to support them, but God FPS makes my blood boil, there's nothing new or creative about it, its been the same shit year after year with nothing but fancy graphics generation after generation and absolutely no one can convince me that the genre has advance over the years in the game play department.

I liked Quake 1 and 2 and Half Life. At this point it's just heading towards the niche segment of the genre life cycle. It's debatable whether it's at the Maturity stage or Decline stage though.

 

[bdouble]

The wiimote doesn't rely on a camera for motion detection, just for the pointer.

It does now with Motion plus. Because it is now tracking 3d space it uses the IR to recalibrate. Before the sensor bar had nothing to do with motion because it was just accelerometers so all movement was on a 2d plane and in straight lines.

Well I doubt he would lie either. Microsoft and Sony have money to make this stuff work, Nintendo has a little bit of cash compared.

Wat? Just because Sony and MS are huge conglomerates doesn't mean they are going to spend billions into R&D for a video game console. They have enough trouble as it is now turning a profit. Also what is this you speak of a "little bit of cash". They are kind of notorious for holding large sums of cash on hand. They have like 1 quarter in the red over the past decade maybe longer.

 

[Jocchan]

Ask and ye shall receive

Thanks, but I think I found a better (and more in-your-face) solution

 

[Calints Neos]

Valve says hi.

lol valve

 

[manueldelalas]

WTF?

It's true, as a Zelda game it is really bad, no challenge, bad design, chores and more chores, stupid quests, few dungeons, empty overworld, etc.

I hate it when people say the game was hated because of the graphics, because it isn't true. There was some backslash on graphics before the game was released because we expected adult Link, but the style grew on people. Graphics are amazing, I still haven't seen better cel shading (toon shading.. whatever) on a video game (well, maybe Valkyria Chronicles outclassed WW in graphics, but that is the only game I can think and WW was released a long time ago).

People who say that simply haven't played the game, or haven't played previous Zelda's. As a video game it is really good, I consider the Zelda series a step above all other series (I love the balance between story, challenge, puzzles, design and pacing the series have), but it is not a good Zelda game.

But yeah, this is off topic and I have said this many times anyway.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Dude what the hell are you talking about exactly?

Didn't you see some WSR demos? Why do you think the game asks the player the point at the sensor bar at the beginning of each round?

Do a little research before throwing ":lol 's" around

I'm not denying that the sensor bar can be used for calibration. I'm just laughing at your apparent confusion as to whether the vanilla wiimote has gyros or not. Read your post again. Maybe you meant to type one thing, but ended up typing something else.

:lol

 

[Zoramon089]

Wat? Just because Sony and MS are huge conglomerates doesn't mean they are going to spend billions into R&D for a video game console. They have enough trouble as it is now turning a profit. Also what is this you speak of a "little bit of cash". They are kind of notorious for holding large sums of cash on hand. They have like 1 quarter in the red over the past decade maybe longer.

I thought it was 1 quarter in the red EVER

 

[agrajag]

It does now with Motion plus. Because it is now tracking 3d space it uses the IR to recalibrate. Before the sensor bar had nothing to do with motion because it was just accelerometers so all movement was on a 2d plane and in straight lines.

How was it movement on a 2d plane? You could move along the Z axis as well as Y and X. If you're pointing the remote straight at the tv, you can make up and down motions, side to side, and closer/away from the tv. What the gyros in the wm+ add is detection of rotational force.

 

[bdouble]

I thought it was 1 quarter in the red EVER

yeah it might very well be this. No time to look it up and find out for sure.

 

[Saint Gregory]

It's true, as a Zelda game it is really bad, no challenge, bad design, chores and more chores, stupid quests, few dungeons, empty overworld, etc.

I hate it when people say the game was hated because of the graphics, because it isn't true. There was some backslash on graphics before the game was released because we expected adult Link, but the style grew on people. Graphics are amazing, I still haven't seen better cel shading (toon shading.. whatever) on a video game (well, maybe Valkyria Chronicles outclassed WW in graphics, but that is the only game I can think and WW was released a long time ago).

People who say that simply haven't played the game, or haven't played previous Zelda's. As a video game it is really good, I consider the Zelda series a step above all other series (I love the balance between story, challenge, puzzles, design and pacing the series have), but it is not a good Zelda game.

But yeah, this is off topic and I have said this many times anyway.

I don't have any interest in turning the thread into WW vs TP either but just for the record I'd rather replay the last 1/2 hour or so of WW than replay any part of any other Zelda. It's main flaws were lack of difficulty and dungeons that were obviously cut. As for the overworld being empty every square on the map had at least one island and other things to do wherether you enjoyed the activities or not. Just my opinion, you're welcome to yours.

 

[Sydle]

It does now with Motion plus. Because it is now tracking 3d space it uses the IR to recalibrate. Before the sensor bar had nothing to do with motion because it was just accelerometers so all movement was on a 2d plane and in straight lines.

Wat? Just because Sony and MS are huge conglomerates doesn't mean they are going to spend billions into R&D for a video game console. They have enough trouble as it is now turning a profit. Also what is this you speak of a "little bit of cash". They are kind of notorious for holding large sums of cash on hand. They have like 1 quarter in the red over the past decade maybe longer.

Wat? Microsoft spent around 1 billion setting up the infrastructure for Live. I can't remember for sure, but I think they spent around half a billion on R&D for the 360. I think Sony spent about the same for the PS3. /waits to be corrected

This is not just about video games for Microsoft or Sony. They both want their own device to be the center of your living room entertainment. Microsoft is being the most aggressive in that respect with services such as Live intergrating Netflix, as well as upcoming Facebook, Twitter, Last.fm functionality. Natal demonstrations (e.g., Netflix or shopping demos) hints where Microsoft is heading. Shane Kim's comments about Rare working on projects even outside the scope of games is even more telling.

 

[Raist]

I'm not denying that the sensor bar can be used for calibration. I'm just laughing at your apparent confusion as to whether the vanilla wiimote has gyros or not. Read your post again. Maybe you meant to type one thing, but ended up typing something else.

:lol

Yeah or maybe you can't read. I never said the original wiimote had gyros either. I said the sensor bar is used to calibrate the gyros (implying, with WMP).

I originally said that I didn't know where Iwata was going because he was basically saying that a camera gives bad results (when they rely on one anyway) and accelerometers are far better. So even if he meant that a camera alone isn't good enough (which would be true, look at the PS2 eyetoy), that's still stupid because neither MS nor Sony only use a simple camera.

 

[Haunted]

Thanks, but I think I found a better (and more in-your-face) solution

I just noticed how the previous game is scratched in the respective colour with which the next game is written. Very nice attention to detail. :lol

 

[Jocchan]

I just noticed how the previous game is scratched in the respective colour with which the next game is written. Very nice attention to detail.

Props to the original author I noticed, and kept doing it that way

 

[DemonSwordsman]

All motion controls suck. They sucked before and they will suck even more without a controller to 2 stupid orbs.

Sony and MS should just stick to regular games and let the wii do its thing.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

All motion controls suck. They sucked before and they will suck even more without a controller to 2 stupid orbs.

Sony and MS should just stick to regular games and let the wii do its thing.

wah wah

 

[Shiggy]

Wat? Microsoft spent around 1 billion setting up the infrastructure for Live. I can't remember for sure, but I think they spent around half a billion on R&D for the 360. I think Sony spent about the same for the PS3. /waits to be corrected

This is not just about video games for Microsoft or Sony. They both want their own device to be the center of your living room entertainment. Microsoft is being the most aggressive in that respect with services such as Live intergrating Netflix, as well as upcoming Facebook, Twitter, Last.fm functionality. Natal demonstrations (e.g., Netflix or shopping demos) hints where Microsoft is heading. Shane Kim's comments about Rare working on projects even outside the scope of games is even more telling.

Funnily, it's probably Nintendo achieved their goal to be the center of living room entertainment.

On a further note, my mother recently decided to order Professor Layton after having seen an ad on the Nintendo Channel. She hasn't played any game since Tetris on the old GameBoy!

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Yeah or maybe you can't read. I never said the original wiimote had gyros either. I said the sensor bar is used to calibrate the gyros (implying, with WMP).

I originally said that I didn't know where Iwata was going because he was basically saying that a camera gives bad results (when they rely on one anyway) and accelerometers are far better. So even if he meant that a camera alone isn't good enough (which would be true, look at the PS2 eyetoy), that's still stupid because neither MS nor Sony only use a simple camera.

No need to get so angry and defensive.

We know that MS is using two cameras to obtain an offset images that it can use to calculate depth.

I was under the impression that Sony's solution was using an eyetoy camera, but truthfully, I haven't read much about it that wasn't present at the press conference.

I'd take Iwata's statements to mean that they had tried something like Sony's camera, that for pointer controls it was easier to use a stationary set of reference points near the TV as opposed to putting the camera on top of the TV and using a single point on the remote as a reference point. I'd assume for it to work well for Sony that they're going to have to include a gyroscope in their remote, which just wasn't available to Nintendo at launch.

I think it can also be taken that since Sony's using a uniformly sized glowy ball, that they can use it to determine depth without Nintendo's problem with having to point the Wiimote towards the sensor bar.

Lots of gives and takes in the designs, and I'm sure from a design perspective that they'd like to include as many possible points of data as they could in order to provide the best motion model, but cost has to become a factor as well.

On a side note, another interesting article has popped up. Says that Nintendo recently scrapped another gameboy successor. Probably thread-worthy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/31084652/

 

[BorkBork]

No need to get so angry and defensive.

We know that MS is using two cameras to obtain an offset images that it can use to calculate depth.

I was under the impression that Sony's solution was using an eyetoy camera, but truthfully, I haven't read much about it that wasn't present at the press conference.

I'd take Iwata's statements to mean that they had tried something like Sony's camera, that for pointer controls it was easier to use a stationary set of reference points near the TV as opposed to putting the camera on top of the TV and using a single point on the remote as a reference point. I'd assume for it to work well for Sony that they're going to have to include a gyroscope in their remote, which just wasn't available to Nintendo at launch.

I think it can also be taken that since Sony's using a uniformly sized glowy ball, that they can use it to determine depth without Nintendo's problem with having to point the Wiimote towards the sensor bar.

Lots of gives and takes in the designs, and I'm sure from a design perspective that they'd like to include as many possible points of data as they could in order to provide the best motion model, but cost has to become a factor as well.

On a side note, another interesting article has popped up. Says that Nintendo recently scrapped another gameboy successor. Probably thread-worthy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/31084652/

Old, and totally expected after DS's monster success. It was their contingency third pillar in case DS failed.

 

[Johann]

yeah it might very well be this. No time to look it up and find out for sure.

It was back in 2003. Nintendo said it was due to currency flux and poor sales of the Gamecube.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'm a rare beast who likes both TWW and TP but doesn't like Majora's Mask.

I'm part of the same rare breed.

 

[Raist]

No need to get so angry and defensive.

:lol

I'd take Iwata's statements to mean that they had tried something like Sony's camera, that for pointer controls it was easier to use a stationary set of reference points near the TV as opposed to putting the camera on top of the TV and using a single point on the remote as a reference point. I'd assume for it to work well for Sony that they're going to have to include a gyroscope in their remote, which just wasn't available to Nintendo at launch.

Well, gyros have been around for years. And the Wiimote's problem is that is tried to do motion control with the wrong approach (as far as using a camera goes). It's more precise and reliable to have an external device record the player's movement (which is exactly the point) than have the player record its movement. A camera ALONE tho is not very precise, and I don't believe it will until a couple of years. I'd love to be proven wrong tho, and I'm certainly keeping an eye on Natal.[/QUOTE]

 

[Haunted]

All motion controls suck. They sucked before and they will suck even more without a controller to 2 stupid orbs.

Sony and MS should just stick to regular games and let the wii do its thing.

Good, at least you're consistent - I respect that.


So I'm guessing you're going to bail out after this gen once motion controls become the norm for all three manufacturers?

PC gaming will welcome you and the other fugitives with open arms.

 

[..pakbeka..]

you have to move your arm that far?

this is really not for those of us that don't get off the couch to play


and that's why perfect 1:1 controls will never work

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I'm part of the same rare breed.

.

I'm looking forward to the MotionPlus and games it's going to bring with it but I'm getting the impression from some people on GAF that I should be hating it in favour of 'true 1:1'.

you have to move your arm that far?

this is really not for those of us that don't get off the couch to play

They'll probably make it more sensitive than that for actual games but I still don't like how it works for those sort of controls.

 

[AniHawk]

Its my most hated genre, i hate it with passion and am only buying HV's game to support them, but God FPS makes my blood boil, there's nothing new or creative about it, its been the same shit year after year with nothing but fancy graphics generation after generation and absolutely no one can convince me that the genre has advance over the years in the game play department.

...Well, the whole genre isn't a wasteland. Half-Life 2 is an incredible series, and Valve as a whole makes the genre worthwhile. Ever since it took over gaming as the #1 genre that all must cater to, it has gotten pretty stale though, yeah. It's kinda like what happened to platformers and fighters in the 90s, how there were too many ripoffs, and only now are we beginning to see people put some effort behind those genres again.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

...Well, the whole genre isn't a wasteland. Half-Life 2 is an incredible series, and Valve as a whole makes the genre worthwhile. Ever since it took over gaming as the #1 genre that all must cater to, it has gotten pretty stale though, yeah. It's kinda like what happened to platformers and fighters in the 90s, how there were too many ripoffs, and only now are we beginning to see people put some effort behind those genres again.

I can't wait for FPS to die off. Then we can blame Wii instead of saturation and staleness. Or the ignorant hordes of cazuals who 'just don't understand'.

 

[AniHawk]

I can't wait for FPS to die off. Then we can blame Wii instead of saturation and staleness. Or the ignorant hordes of cazuals who 'just don't understand'.

In a perfect world, the platformer would rise again as the one, true genre. Or maybe action-adventure games. That genre hasn't seen a whole lot of light of day outside of Zelda, Team Ico, and Beyond Good & Evil.

 

[Azure J]

In a perfect world, the platformer would rise again as the one, true genre. Or maybe action-adventure games. That genre hasn't seen a whole lot of light of day outside of Zelda, Team Ico, and Beyond Good & Evil.

Post of the forever.

 

[AniHawk]

It appears the genre is trying to resurface, disguised as more of a party game. But the level design is still there. LBP, Splosion Man, NSMB Wii. I'll be supporting all of them.

 

[Neomoto]

There are lots of platformers this gen on DS and Wii though (not even counting Virtual Console). I'm real glad the DS has kept 2D gaming in general strong for at least another gen.

Wat? Microsoft spent around 1 billion setting up the infrastructure for Live. I can't remember for sure, but I think they spent around half a billion on R&D for the 360. I think Sony spent about the same for the PS3. /waits to be corrected

This is not just about video games for Microsoft or Sony. They both want their own device to be the center of your living room entertainment. Microsoft is being the most aggressive in that respect with services such as Live intergrating Netflix, as well as upcoming Facebook, Twitter, Last.fm functionality. Natal demonstrations (e.g., Netflix or shopping demos) hints where Microsoft is heading. Shane Kim's comments about Rare working on projects even outside the scope of games is even more telling.

What is your point? Do you know how much Nintendo spend on R&D this generation? I don't have time to look it up right now, but I remember from the latest numbers we got, Nintendo's R&D costs where significantly higher then both Microsoft and Sony. They spend a shitload on R&D.

Btw, about the "not just video games for Microsoft or Sony" part. Nintendo has its fair share of services for Wii, too. You can watch TV with the Wiimote and use integrated TV guide and everything. They have a video-on-demand service with Wii no ma (where all content is exclusive for Nintendo). You can print your digital photo's / business cards through your Wii, watch the weather forecast or news. Use the BBC iPlayer. Or browse the internet with the internet channel and you can even order food online. All in a user friendly Wii interface, pretty much hassle free. Perhaps it's not "in your face" out there, but slowly and steady you could say Nintendo is more likely to be the center of the living room, that is the whole point of the console. From the console itself, to the controllers, games and non-gaming services. 50+ million users doesn't hurt either. ;-)

 

[Count Dookkake]

Good, at least you're consistent - I respect that.


So I'm guessing you're going to bail out after this gen once motion controls become the norm for all three manufacturers?

PC gaming will welcome you and the other fugitives with open arms.

I wish I had kept a list of posters who promised to quit gaming if waggle won.

Does anybody have such a list?

 

[Deku]

I wish I had kept a list of posters who promised to quit gaming if waggle won.

Does anybody have such a list?

Well I was also slightly bemused that all that flailing around, which seems to be encouraged with Natal and the much more extreme movements required as shown in the Sony light ball demo seems to be OK now, though it was apparently a huge deal break, in 2006?

 

[laserbeam]

Well I was also slightly bemused that all that flailing around, which seems to be encouraged with Natal and the much more extreme movements required as shown in the Sony light ball demo seems to be OK now, though it was apparently a huge deal break, in 2006?

Funny enough the Wii seems to be the least of the flailers now lol.

 

[Sydle]

There are lots of platformers this gen on DS and Wii though (not even counting Virtual Console). I'm real glad the DS has kept 2D gaming in general strong for at least another gen.


What is your point? Do you know how much Nintendo spend on R&D this generation? I don't have time to look it up right now, but I remember from the latest numbers we got, Nintendo's R&D costs where significantly higher then both Microsoft and Sony. They spend a shitload on R&D.

Btw, about the "not just video games for Microsoft or Sony" part. Nintendo has its fair share of services for Wii, too. You can watch TV with the Wiimote and use integrated TV guide and everything. They have a video-on-demand service with Wii no ma (where all content is exclusive for Nintendo). You can print your digital photo's / business cards through your Wii, watch the weather forecast or news. Use the BBC iPlayer. Or browse the internet with the internet channel and you can even order food online. All in a user friendly Wii interface, pretty much hassle free. Perhaps it's not "in your face" out there, but slowly and steady you could say Nintendo is more likely to be the center of the living room, that is the whole point of the console. From the console itself, to the controllers, games and non-gaming services. 50+ million users doesn't hurt either. ;-)

I don't know how much Nintendo spent, but you need to remember that Microsoft and Sony are more than just the Xbox or Playstation, respectively. They put a lot of R&D into other divisions that they can share. For example, Peter Molyneux explained that his Milo game was accomplished by borrowing technologies from other Microsoft divisions (e.g., tone of voice recognition from Windows 7, etc.). My point being that you're not going to find an all encompassing R&D number for Microsoft (or Sony) like you would Nintendo.

Nintendo is not leading the pack online by any means. They were last to jump on board and it shows. Could they turn it around and jump ahead? It's possible, they have a ton of cash to pour into it. We'll see.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I don't know how much Nintendo spent, but you need to remember that Microsoft and Sony are more than just the Xbox or Playstation, respectively. They put a lot of R&D into other divisions that they can share. For example, Peter Molyneux explained that his Milo game was accomplished by borrowing technologies from other Microsoft divisions (e.g., tone of voice recognition from Windows 7, etc.). My point being that you're not going to find an all encompassing R&D number for Microsoft (or Sony) like you would Nintendo.

Nintendo is not leading the pack online by any means. They were last to jump on board and it shows. Could they turn it around and jump ahead? It's possible, they have a ton of cash to pour into it. We'll see.

Iwata said he's aware of player's disdain for friend codes in an interview a while back, so hopefully the next generation we may have something that resembles an online community.

 

[ZAK]

Iwata said he's aware of player's disdain for friend codes in an interview a while back, so hopefully the next generation we may have something that resembles an online community.

Maybe he'll realize there are parental control options and stop trying to extra-double-childproof everything.

 

[Tab0203]

Funny enough the Wii seems to be the least of the flailers now lol.

It's hilarious. Plus no external sensor.

Remember Phil "no external sensor required" Harrison? "What a fantastic innovation! (sixaxis) ...and much lighter than the dual shock 2." :lol

 

[Sydle]

Iwata said he's aware of player's disdain for friend codes in an interview a while back, so hopefully the next generation we may have something that resembles an online community.

Good to know.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

It's true, as a Zelda game it is really bad, no challenge, bad design, chores and more chores, stupid quests, few dungeons, empty overworld, etc.

I hate it when people say the game was hated because of the graphics, because it isn't true. There was some backslash on graphics before the game was released because we expected adult Link, but the style grew on people. Graphics are amazing, I still haven't seen better cel shading (toon shading.. whatever) on a video game (well, maybe Valkyria Chronicles outclassed WW in graphics, but that is the only game I can think and WW was released a long time ago).

People who say that simply haven't played the game, or haven't played previous Zelda's. As a video game it is really good, I consider the Zelda series a step above all other series (I love the balance between story, challenge, puzzles, design and pacing the series have), but it is not a good Zelda game.

But yeah, this is off topic and I have said this many times anyway.

It looks like the fans are fans of it because of story, characters, art style, etc. Nothing to do with the sometimes broken gameplay elements. *coughsave/timesystemsneeze*

MM is still better than WW, though. I also agree that Aonuma does not get it. MM was the least Zelda-like Zelda game. It would have been better off as a new IP. At least then its fans would stop continuing to fragment the base demanding more of that same type of gameplay. See what I did there? I mean if DQ can survive on tradition, then so can Zelda. Too much change is turning the fanbase into a bunch warring tools. I hate how the Celda style was wasted on that ugly design of Link and co. Deflate his head, plz. lol

 

[laserbeam]

Maybe he'll realize there are parental control options and stop trying to extra-double-childproof everything.

Sadly I think the mainstream press is the blame for that. They still attack Nintendo over "easy to find random strangers" online services being a boost for pedophiles.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Majora's Mask didn't need to be a new IP. The reason it's so awesome it's that it's a Zelda game that's really "out there," and we could really use more games like it in the series.

If you were having a dream about OOT, but everything was screwed up, that's pretty much what MM is, and it's a better game in general, but also a better Zelda game, for it.

 

[AndrewG009]

Wow, your post is so totally related to the thread...anyway, it's I wish he could have elaborated more on why they chose their current setup over a camera based option

I agree, but some people honestly will never be able to break the desire to hold a controller of some type while playing, be it a Wiimote or a Controller. Microsoft and Sony both have good ideas, but I'm anxious to see these ideas implemented in more concrete terms.

 

[dsmoke1986]

Probably because they realized that a remote is very easy to relate to; there's a familiarity and a comfort factor they can sell.

Plus, it's got buttons and a d-pad to fall back on. The Wiimote can be the default controller for a system, Natal just can't. Nobody's going to be able to play Street Fighter on that thing.

.