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Jak and Daxter series > Ratchet or Sly Cooper
- Thread starter U5230
- Start date
Gattsu25 said:You're just going through the motions now, Anihawk. It's kindof depressing to see one's ambition and creativity dwindle and putter out right before my eyes.
I think this is the first time someone has said something like this to me. It implies that at some point, I was actually at a place where I could be worse. Thanks.
crowphoenix
Banned
Gotta love, Anihawk. He's one of the best at what he does. :lol
And glad you're finally back to 3, Himuro.
And glad you're finally back to 3, Himuro.
crowphoenix
Banned
I remember that missions. I hated it. Died so many times trying to get through it.
rollingstart
Banned
Did you really have trouble with that target practice? it's like the easiest thing ever. You hold and release R1 when there aren't civillian targets on the screen and you will finish soon enough.
and I still think it's crazy that there are 600 of those eggs to collect. I collected more on this playthrough than I did last time with 300+ but I can never imagine going the whole way.
and I still think it's crazy that there are 600 of those eggs to collect. I collected more on this playthrough than I did last time with 300+ but I can never imagine going the whole way.
rollingstart
Banned
I think we're at the same point right now because I did that a bit earlier.
yeah, it's crap. I forgot that X is run for the first couple attempts.
yeah, it's crap. I forgot that X is run for the first couple attempts.
rollingstart
Banned
Finished. Still awesome. Still annoyed by many parts (tunnel parts, pac-man game, turret sequences).
After replaying Jak 3 and Sly Cooper, I think I would still put Sly over Jak, or maybe the same. Maybe Ratchet below or above. It's hard to rank them since they're all great.
After replaying Jak 3 and Sly Cooper, I think I would still put Sly over Jak, or maybe the same. Maybe Ratchet below or above. It's hard to rank them since they're all great.
nincompoop
Banned
NOOOO why'd you have to make this thread while I was banned? The Jak 2 defense force needs to operate at full strength!
I guess there's not much left to add to this thread, but here's a couple of interesting tidbits that I didn't know about until fairly recently: 1st, the lead designer for Jak 2 and 3 (Hirokazu Yasuhara) was also the level designer for all the Sonic games on the Genesis, which helps explain why they were so face-meltingly awesome. Also, there's a pretty weird glitch that lets you walk around a graphically upgraded version of Sandover Village from Jak 1. Makes me wonder what they were planning on doing with it before it got scrapped.
Speaking of Jak 1 Himuro, how much of it have you actually played? The first few worlds are pretty awful, but they gradually get better over the course of the game, culminating with the incredible Citadel level which stands up to the best levels in Jak 2. The Lost Precursor City, Spider Caves and whatever the snow level was called had some pretty awesome platforming segments as well. It's too bad that the game pretty much sucked before that point and ended just when it was getting good, but I'd still recommend playing it through. It's dreadfully short anyway so you might as well. I also would have recommended that you wait a while before playing Jak 3 to let Jak 2's awesomeness wear off. I enjoyed it a lot when it first came out, but when I replayed it last year immediately after playing Jak 2 on Hero Mode it made it really obvious just how rushed and unpolished Jak 3 was in comparison.
I guess there's not much left to add to this thread, but here's a couple of interesting tidbits that I didn't know about until fairly recently: 1st, the lead designer for Jak 2 and 3 (Hirokazu Yasuhara) was also the level designer for all the Sonic games on the Genesis, which helps explain why they were so face-meltingly awesome. Also, there's a pretty weird glitch that lets you walk around a graphically upgraded version of Sandover Village from Jak 1. Makes me wonder what they were planning on doing with it before it got scrapped.
Speaking of Jak 1 Himuro, how much of it have you actually played? The first few worlds are pretty awful, but they gradually get better over the course of the game, culminating with the incredible Citadel level which stands up to the best levels in Jak 2. The Lost Precursor City, Spider Caves and whatever the snow level was called had some pretty awesome platforming segments as well. It's too bad that the game pretty much sucked before that point and ended just when it was getting good, but I'd still recommend playing it through. It's dreadfully short anyway so you might as well. I also would have recommended that you wait a while before playing Jak 3 to let Jak 2's awesomeness wear off. I enjoyed it a lot when it first came out, but when I replayed it last year immediately after playing Jak 2 on Hero Mode it made it really obvious just how rushed and unpolished Jak 3 was in comparison.
I should get back and finish Jak 3. I think I must be halfway at least...I think I had around 8-10 hours in last time I checked.
Now Himuro, Jak 3 I love, since it has vehicles that control really well, and I don't end up dying 5x in the city just going to the next mission.
I need to find Sly 1 and 2 somewhere...I checked EB today but they had neither. Which is the best in the series?
Now Himuro, Jak 3 I love, since it has vehicles that control really well, and I don't end up dying 5x in the city just going to the next mission.
I need to find Sly 1 and 2 somewhere...I checked EB today but they had neither. Which is the best in the series?
MvmntInGrn
Member
TheExodu5 said:I should get back and finish Jak 3. I think I must be halfway at least...I think I had around 8-10 hours in last time I checked.
Now Himuro, Jak 3 I love, since it has vehicles that control really well, and I don't end up dying 5x in the city just going to the next mission.
I need to find Sly 1 and 2 somewhere...I checked EB today but they had neither. Which is the best in the series?
I liked them both very much but they are quite different.
Sly 1 is more of a classic platformer, no health bar, hub-world design.
Sly 2 has more open areas with smaller sub areas, play as all three characters, more stealth I thought, health-bar system.
I like how large and vertical the levels in Sly 2 can be, but I don't really like playing as the other characters. Sly 1 is a classic platforming form beginning to end.
nincompoop
Banned
Not even fucking close, around 40% of the levels in Sly 1 are minigame-type levels that not only take away from the platforming focus, but they aren't even good as far as minigames go. They control like shit (especially the racing/vehicle minigames) and just aren't any fun to play.MvmntInGrn said:
Himuro you should go back to Jak 2 and collect enough orbs to unlock hero mode! It generally isn't THAT much harder than the normal mode, but one mission in particular (the turret mission at the drill platform) will have you pissing blood for weeks. Only after you complete that can you call yourself a TRUE Jak fan
GitarooMan
Member
This is exactly how I feel, especially the bolded, I do think it was reaction to the negativity about the difficulty and the shorter dev cycle that contributed to it. Jak 3 feels like a Jak 2 expansion pack with half the difficulty and half the length.Himuro said:
revolverjgw
Member
Maximo > all three
Man the PS2 was a 3D platforming powerhouse
Man the PS2 was a 3D platforming powerhouse
rollingstart
Banned
I don't understand how low amounts of checkpoints are a plus. Most of the time they place the platforming segments after a shooting area, then you just happen to miss one jump, and you're forced to do the shooting area again. It's poor design and poor checkpoint placement. It's reasons like that and the mess of an overworld that just annoyed me about Jak 2, and why in the end I did enjoy Jak 3 more as a complete game, even if Jak 2 does have better platforming. I still think the shooting is really rough in both games, but I never felt like the new weapons to Jak 3 were fluff. Well, some of them were. The regular gattling gun, ricohet shot and gravity upside thing gun were mostly useless. Everything else had it's place, and while not nessicary, they would make combat a lot faster when used in the right places.
If they released a re-edited Jak 2, that would be incredible. Keep the difficulty in the right places, fix the checkpoints, get rid of all the nonsense vehicle focus and, let the player warp from mission to mission instead of dealing with tedious driving, etc. Some games should totally get "directors cut" versions.
Actually, re-playing Jak 3 earlier made me want to go back and re-play Jak 2, but when I got to Haven City I was already getting flashbacks of all the annoyances in that game. I totally agree that the platforming is great, it's just wading through a lot of muck to get to the enjoyable parts.
though, combat in Jak 3 is really a lot easier, almost way too much. I never used Dark Jak in Jak 3 unless it was for a puzzle compared to Jak 2 where I did rely on it from time to time. It's probably also due to the added weapon functions.
If they released a re-edited Jak 2, that would be incredible. Keep the difficulty in the right places, fix the checkpoints, get rid of all the nonsense vehicle focus and, let the player warp from mission to mission instead of dealing with tedious driving, etc. Some games should totally get "directors cut" versions.
Actually, re-playing Jak 3 earlier made me want to go back and re-play Jak 2, but when I got to Haven City I was already getting flashbacks of all the annoyances in that game. I totally agree that the platforming is great, it's just wading through a lot of muck to get to the enjoyable parts.
though, combat in Jak 3 is really a lot easier, almost way too much. I never used Dark Jak in Jak 3 unless it was for a puzzle compared to Jak 2 where I did rely on it from time to time. It's probably also due to the added weapon functions.
nincompoop
Banned
I find your complaints about the overworld and vehicles in Jak 2 to be overblown. It never takes 5-10 minutes to get from one place to another, it only takes around 3 minutes to drive across the entire map and most of the time the missions are located pretty close to each other. I didn't have any problems with how the hovercars handled and weaving them through traffic and drifting around corners was extremely satisfying I thought. Yeah it takes some skill to drive them well but I thought that's what you liked about Jak 2 in the first place?
I agree the extra checkpoints in Jak 3 were a joke. I remember one mission in particular where you have to drive a particular hovercar from the city to the port without crashing because there was something chasing you, and then you had to blow up some shit in the port before a bomb goes off or something like that. Anyway I died on the second part of the mission and it restarted me in the middle of the chase sequence, which made absolutely no sense at all.
I never really got into the Maximo games, the first one had a bullshit save system and the second one felt like they really dumbed down the difficulty in response to the complaints about the first one. I only played the first 6 or 7 levels though, maybe I'll pick it back up and see if it gets harder later on.
I agree the extra checkpoints in Jak 3 were a joke. I remember one mission in particular where you have to drive a particular hovercar from the city to the port without crashing because there was something chasing you, and then you had to blow up some shit in the port before a bomb goes off or something like that. Anyway I died on the second part of the mission and it restarted me in the middle of the chase sequence, which made absolutely no sense at all.
I never really got into the Maximo games, the first one had a bullshit save system and the second one felt like they really dumbed down the difficulty in response to the complaints about the first one. I only played the first 6 or 7 levels though, maybe I'll pick it back up and see if it gets harder later on.
rollingstart
Banned
Maximo save system was bullshit, but in a good way. It wasn't annoying or frustrating to die and not continue because you didn't have a coin, it was more hilarious and unreal. It's kind of like Demon's Soul approach where the game hates you so much, yet you're so attracted to continue playing.
and it's not just the distance you drive in Jak 2, it's the fact that you do it all the time. Even if it was 3 minutes, which it isn't, it's more like 3 minutes + 3 minutes + 3 minutes and so on.
Driving in Jak 3 was way better, even if it wasn't too great. Cars skid like mad all the time. And that fucking jump car fucking sucks. I do wonder how the driving in Jak X turned out. Honestly, after Jak 2 and Jak 3 a Jak based racing game would be the last thing I would want from the series.
I would say the driving in Jak 2 required patience, not skill.
and it's not just the distance you drive in Jak 2, it's the fact that you do it all the time. Even if it was 3 minutes, which it isn't, it's more like 3 minutes + 3 minutes + 3 minutes and so on.
Driving in Jak 3 was way better, even if it wasn't too great. Cars skid like mad all the time. And that fucking jump car fucking sucks. I do wonder how the driving in Jak X turned out. Honestly, after Jak 2 and Jak 3 a Jak based racing game would be the last thing I would want from the series.
Himuro said:
I would say the driving in Jak 2 required patience, not skill.
nincompoop
Banned
It wasn't 3 minutes + 3 minutes + 3 minutes all the time, 3 minutes is the amount of time it takes to get from Krew's bar to the stadium on the other side of the map. (Actually it's faster than that, the one mission early in the game has you drive there in 3 minutes but it can easily be completed with 30 seconds left, plus you open an alternate route later which saves you even more time, but I digress.) It's more like 1 minute + 1 minute + 1:30 + 1 minute, with only a few missions requiring a drive of 2 minutes or more.
rollingstart
Banned
Himuro seems to be waning in his critisism.
It was doing the same tedious drive time and time again. They also sought to place the different missions at the opposite ends, so you would need to drive that around three minutes. We can argue about exactly how bad the decision was, either quite bad or not that bad, it was still bad in the end.
Even just talking about the parts I hate about Jak 2 do kinda make me want to play it. The good parts of the Jak games are so, so good. It's just that so many other aspects of them annoy me. I hate having to put up with something I don't enjoy just to get to something I really enjoy. I want my cake and I want to eat it too, damnit.
And I'm curious about Jak 4 or whatever it's called now. It's not by Naughty Dog, so we'll see how that turns out.
It was doing the same tedious drive time and time again. They also sought to place the different missions at the opposite ends, so you would need to drive that around three minutes. We can argue about exactly how bad the decision was, either quite bad or not that bad, it was still bad in the end.
Even just talking about the parts I hate about Jak 2 do kinda make me want to play it. The good parts of the Jak games are so, so good. It's just that so many other aspects of them annoy me. I hate having to put up with something I don't enjoy just to get to something I really enjoy. I want my cake and I want to eat it too, damnit.
And I'm curious about Jak 4 or whatever it's called now. It's not by Naughty Dog, so we'll see how that turns out.
nincompoop
Banned
Dude, I just played it a couple of weeks ago. There were maybe 3 or 4 instances in the entire game of having to drive from one end of the map to the other to start a mission. Don't forget that you can usually choose between two or three different missions at a time, so you can save a bunch time by picking the closest one to wherever the last mission left you off.Linkzg said:
This thread has inspired me to play through some of the games in these series seeing as I picked a bunch of them up a while ago and never really played through them. I played through Jak & Daxter last week and really enjoyed it. Anyone that calls this game a collectathon is ridiculous as there really is not much to collect at all. No more than Mario 64 anyway. The later levels of the game really do have some awesome platforming sections and if the sequels have even more difficult sections I'm really looking forward to playing them. Also just finished Sly Cooper today and that was pretty great as well. I completed all the master thief sprints and thought they were a nice touch because I felt the main game really was pretty easy. Both great games overall and visually I think they hold up pretty well. I think I will start playing Ratchet and Clank later today as I ordered a copy of Jak II off of ebay and haven't gotten it yet.
nincompoop
Banned
Seriously, I should have permanent immunity from being banned just in case someone makes a Jak 2 thread.
Anyway, here's some tips for Jak 2 players who can't drive good:
1. Learn the layout of the city. No need to memorize every single nook and cranny, but you should always have an idea of where you're heading.
2. Switch your focus between the mini map and the city while driving. To do this you need to develop sort of a "sixth sense" about the city layout, so when you don't know which way to turn you can rely on the mini map to point you in the right direction without crashing into stuff. Kind of hard to explain I guess.
3. Stick mainly to driving in the bottom zone, outside of a few areas which don't have heavily congested traffic.
4. Don't worry about pissing off the Krimzon Guard. As long as you stay in the bottom zone, there isn't much they can do to hurt you.
5. DRIFT INTO TURNS! This is important!
6. Practice the mid-air carjacking move (press triangle while driving to jump out of your car, then triangle again to take someone else's car all in one motion). Use this if your car is in danger of blowing up.
Anyway, here's some tips for Jak 2 players who can't drive good:
1. Learn the layout of the city. No need to memorize every single nook and cranny, but you should always have an idea of where you're heading.
2. Switch your focus between the mini map and the city while driving. To do this you need to develop sort of a "sixth sense" about the city layout, so when you don't know which way to turn you can rely on the mini map to point you in the right direction without crashing into stuff. Kind of hard to explain I guess.
3. Stick mainly to driving in the bottom zone, outside of a few areas which don't have heavily congested traffic.
4. Don't worry about pissing off the Krimzon Guard. As long as you stay in the bottom zone, there isn't much they can do to hurt you.
5. DRIFT INTO TURNS! This is important!
6. Practice the mid-air carjacking move (press triangle while driving to jump out of your car, then triangle again to take someone else's car all in one motion). Use this if your car is in danger of blowing up.
Sure, if you ignore the 1620 Precursor orbs and 112 Scout flies you need to get all the power cells.Def Jukie said:
I liked Jak 2 until I got to this mission where I had to get across the city as fast as possible. Sadly I was never able to do it, as bumping into a few things would detonate my damn ship, and by then 9 billion cops were chasing me so it became a little more difficult to grab another, and wasting even seconds wasn't allowed with the ruthless time limit. After many tries I eventually said screw it, and bought Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando. Awesome game.
Just on sunday I started playing Jak 3 with caution. Definitely a much more tight experience so far than 2. Not that I don't like Jak 2's core game, just the open world part was really awful to me. It just seemed big for the sake of being big, and I would have liked it immensely more if it was a more compact city with lots of nooks and crannies and things to do.
Just on sunday I started playing Jak 3 with caution. Definitely a much more tight experience so far than 2. Not that I don't like Jak 2's core game, just the open world part was really awful to me. It just seemed big for the sake of being big, and I would have liked it immensely more if it was a more compact city with lots of nooks and crannies and things to do.
bumpkin
Member
I'll tell you one thing that's insanely impressive about the original Jak & Daxter. It's built entirely in Assembly; at least according to a book I read... I can barely write basic maze-ish programs in Assembly, let alone a full 3D game. That's just insanity. It borders on masochism. My hat's off to the devs.