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Jakarta Governor Ahok Sentenced to Two Years in Prison For Blasphemy

Piggus

Member
This is pretty disgusting. I'm glad my fiancee is getting out of Indonesia and that I'm not moving there, because I wouldn't be able to deal with this shit.

This is a moderate Muslim country?

Yes, it is. Indonesia is very progressive compared to many Muslim-majority countries, but stuff like this rears its ugly head sometimes unfortunately. The older, more conservative generation are holding the country back. Sound familiar?
 

Chuckie

Member
I do wonder what the Indonesian metalhead president has to say about this. Metal and blasphemy go well together, after all.

He can't say anything except 'respect the court' even though he is a friend of Ahok.
There seems to be some diabolical marriage between shady politicians and military and islamic hardliners in Indonesia at the moment and it has been implied that bringing down Ahok is part of a larger plan to also bring down Jokowi.

Country is going to shit. I have visited it for almost 20 years now and it gets worse every goddamn year.
 

Chuckie

Member
This is pretty disgusting. I'm glad my fiancee is getting out of Indonesia and that I'm not moving there, because I wouldn't be able to deal with this shit.



Yes, it is. Indonesia is very progressive compared to many Muslim-majority countries, but stuff like this rears its ugly head sometimes unfortunately. The older, more conservative generation are holding the country back. Sound familiar?

If it is the older generation holding the country back then howcome the islamisation is something relatively new? The front runners in this story, the fanatical FPI are mostly young people.
The younger generation is more conservative in Indonesia. That is the problem.
 

Piggus

Member
If it is the older generation holding the country back then howcome the islamisation is something relatively new? The front runners in this story, the fanatical FPI are mostly young people.
The younger generation is more conservative in Indonesia. That is the problem.

I guess I'm mostly just surrounded by my fiancee's friends, so that's the perspective I get. Essentially all of them were in support of Ahok and thought the protests were stupid, whereas their older family members tend to take Islam more seriously. My impression having been there a few times is that younger people are a lot more westernized. But then again I probably was never in a situation where I'd be around more fanatical people.
 

Ogodei

Member
While it wasn't a bastion of religious tolerance while I lived there (we had to lie about being Jewish for instance) it was most definitely less extreme than it is now. Things have gotten bad over the last 10 years or so. If I am reading the article clearly, they had over 100 blasphemy cases for the first 40 or so years, and then another 100+ in just the last decade alone. That's a pretty big increase.

The problems of democracy, as i've said before. If you give the masses the vote, you have to confront the bad side of their beliefs, or yield to them.
 

warthog

Member
It's difficult to stay positive about religion finding a place in a world where having respect for being and thinking different things should be a two way street. I don't see it happening when you have this aggressive radicalism forcing everyone to follow suit or get fucked.
 
Todung Mulya Lubis, a human rights lawyer who also defended the Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, said it was worrying that one judge cited the leader of a hardline Islamic group known as the Islamic Defender’s Front as an expert in the judgment.

“Rizieq Shihab cannot be considered as an expert because he openly, publicly accused Ahok of blasphemy, so he is not an independent, neutral expert anymore. But the judges mentioned his name in their judgment and I thought this is not correct.”

“The judges also talked about experts from [the Islamic organisation] Majelis Ulama Indonesia. With all respect, I don’t think they can be considered as experts because they had taken sides already, long before the trial.

Fucking hell, come on. What a farce.
 

ZiZ

Member
This has less to do with blasphemy and more to do with him being a Christian official.
If a muslim were to run for something in the US and talked some shit about the Bible a lot of Americans would wish they can get him on blasphemy charges.
 

Yamauchi

Banned
Ah, my former home. It seems to be getting worse and worse every year. A general lawlessness combined with a massive flow of money from Gulf Arab states to spread radical Islam makes for a very toxic mix.
 

nacimento

Member
This has less to do with blasphemy and more to do with him being a Christian official.
If a muslim were to run for something in the US and talked some shit about the Bible a lot of Americans would wish they can get him on blasphemy charges.

But luckily they wouldn't get their wish. Sadly, the number of "moderate" muslim countries seems to be falling steadily. Turkey, Malasya, Indonesia...
 

Yamauchi

Banned
This has less to do with blasphemy and more to do with him being a Christian official.
If a muslim were to run for something in the US and talked some shit about the Bible a lot of Americans would wish they can get him on blasphemy charges.
I'm​ not sure I follow your comparison. Ahok did not 'talk some shit about' the Quran. He stated that a verse was being manipulated by hardliners. Prominent Muslim Americans make similarly benign statements from time to time on TV, radio, and so on. No one cares.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
This has less to do with blasphemy and more to do with him being a Christian official.
If a muslim were to run for something in the US and talked some shit about the Bible a lot of Americans would wish they can get him on blasphemy charges.

He didn't even "talk shit" about the Quran, he just said people were using the Quran to claim it isn't allowed to vote for a Christian politician.
 

Piggus

Member
This has less to do with blasphemy and more to do with him being a Christian official.
If a muslim were to run for something in the US and talked some shit about the Bible a lot of Americans would wish they can get him on blasphemy charges.

Um, he was elected as governor by a large muslim majority. These issues only came up when he was seeking re-election and made the comments that he did.

And yeah, people here would be pissed off, but we have laws that ensure you can't put someone in fucking prison for having an opinion.
 

psy18

Member
I am saddened with the state of my country.

It seems people here are more concerned with "defending god" than fighting the corruption that has been eating their lives.

Ahok exposed major corruption which involves buying UPS for schools for a "paltry amount" of about 500.000 USD PER UNIT.

Ahok cut off some fantastic "comprehension" seminary budget in the amount of MILLION of dollars (he writes "comprehend your grandma!" on the proposal).

National Auditor gives "Disclaimer" status for Jakarta's financial report due to Ahok's plan to buy a patch of land at BASE TAX PRICE (people here sell land MULTIPLE times of base tax price) to build a Cancer Hospital. He had to face Anti Gratification Committee and nothing has come out of it because there is no problem except for the National Auditors's claim. The hospital's construction is now unclear. Also, other provinces with "Without exception" audit status had their governor caught for corruption.

Some politician smears Ahok's strong stance to move people from slums to subsidised Apartments because it's "inhumane" to move them to place with better sanitation, free transports, subsidised schools, and cheap maintenance fee without rental fee (less than 1 usd per day iirc). The relocation is also to build walls around the rivers where the slums are located to prevents flooding from the rivers.

A politician was caught receiving money from Real Estate developer which suspected have some relation with Jakarta Reclamation project. Some people tried to tie the case to Ahok due to his signing of the reclamation permit, although the project itself is a continuation of previous governor, a national project, and has been modified by Ahok to provide more public facility.

When Ahok was going to run for Governor, he went for independent route. He manages to collect more than 1 MILLION ID and signatures which was required for independents. But somehow the parlement then required each of the 1 MILLION signatures to be verified one by one within TWO WEEKS. It was impossible so Ahok had no choice but to be nominated by political parties. He's still an Independent because he doesn't join any of the political parties nominating him. He also requires all parties supporting him to not request anything from him other than to do his job as proper governor.

Ahok's campaign to become governor is ALL funded by people who support him. I think this is the first ever in Indonesia. It is all transparent and accountable with strict collection method and documentation. Meanwhile his competition has to take money out of their own pocket plus collecting from political parties' cash.

Ahok routinely stream his meetings in his office through youtube. Through the streams you can see that he is very detailed and knows his way in handling the program/regulations. In some you can even find him exposing major irregularities which prompts him to get VERY MAD and RUDE. Some of these irregularities involves major conglomerates with strong political history. He once said "Be usual with the right, don't right the usual".

Instead of receiving money for compensation of real estate development, Ahok told the developer to build infrastructures, so everything would be faster and less leaky. Off course the compensation are independently valued for objectivity.

He upgraded the local bus system with new, European made bus. Previous governors imports China (some used) bus.

Roads are way smoother, more lightings are installed, and flooding although still happens due to torrential rain / river overflow are handled quickly and can recede faster.

When the "Blasphemy" event happened, no one in the audience where he gave speech was offended at all. There was NOTHING happened until someone uploaded the video with EDITED transcript which omitted some words. This immediately used by some of his vocal opponents together with religious leaders to rally mass, and the perception has just been bad from there.

Throughout the campaigning days, religion and ethnicity issues are being used extensively. The mosques will have the preacher says not to vote for non-muslims, and some even openly refusing to pray for Ahok supporters should they die. Intimidation banners also sprung up in Minority areas. The social medias are filled to the brim with hoax and intimidations.

During the 2nd round election day there was an effort by the hardliners to organize mass on each of the voting booth to "Escort" the election. They even had an app to organize it called "Tamasya Almaidah" in play store. This includes inviting people from outside of Jakarta with their target of 100 Muslims per booth to ensure "proper" voting is conducted. It gained some traction and on the election day it can be seen that some people with Muslim attributes hanging around the voting booth. Some also comes from local "religious" mob group. The police manage to disperse some of these groups in some area, but can only stood watch in some other area since they are doing nothing but stood there and "watch". During the voting hours, the mosque are also actively praying though loudspeakers in effort to "remind" the voters.

To win the election, a nominee must held 50%+1 vote. Ahok won the 1st round of election with 43% of vote (best of 3 candidates), but lost the 2nd round with his vote remaining the same.

This sentence is another hurting blow and lots of people are saddened. I am sure wherever Ahok is after this, there will be lots of people to welcome him because he is a true person who fight for social justice.

In the meantime I hope the government can use this momentum to be assertive against the extremist and the true corruptors which are actually killing the country.
 

Qvoth

Member
i knew he was going to lose the election, but i thought he was going to get away with this
turns out he got both
 

Arex

Member
Um, he was elected as governor by a large muslim majority. These issues only came up when he was seeking re-election and made the comments that he did.

And yeah, people here would be pissed off, but we have laws that ensure you can't put someone in fucking prison for having an opinion.

Not really, he became governor because Jokowi ran for presidency. He was his deputy governor before that.

Sadly if he were to run for governor himself at that time I don't think he'll win.
Even after he showed what he had done for Jakarta, he still couldn't win this round.
So eh, we'd like to say we're tolerant moderate country, but the reality is religion and race is still very easy thing to use against us minorities, regardless of your quality/achievements.
 

Mariolee

Member
This is absolute bullshit. The way they've dragged Ahok through the mud this past election just because of his religion is insanity. He has done so much good for Jakarta. I was just back there a month ago and was astonished at how clean it was. His loss will only fuel the religious extremists and not only halt the progress started by Ahok and Jokowi but REVERSE it.

Fuck this shit.
 
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