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[IbizaPocholo]

https://gamingbolt.com/sony-and-microsoft-aiming-to-surpass-stadias-10-7-tflops-hardware-rumor

According to Kotaku’s Jason Schreier, they’re actually aiming higher than that. Schreier noted that, “I’ve been saying since roughly March 2018 (in this very thread), next-gen is coming in 2020. That Semiaccurate article saying 2018 (lol) got people’s hopes up for 2019, but by now I hope it’s clear that the PS5 ain’t coming out this fall.”

Schreier also said that the total number of people who were even told about next-gen is “still very limited.” “Even within companies like, say, DICE, there’ll be a small team of engineers who now have a rough idea of specs, and everyone else will know when they need to know. Not a lot of devs are disclosed on next-gen right now.

“In other words, don’t expect much in the way of substantial leakage just yet. The only thing to know for sure is that both Sony and Microsoft are aiming higher than that ‘10.7 teraflops’ number that Google threw out last week. (And, as has been reported, Microsoft’s got a few things in the works.)”

 

[Chozofication_]

Aiming doesn't mean you'll hit lol. 10.7 would be really nice as is, anything more is gravy.

Edit : also even if it's less than 10.7 ; vega flops =/= Navi.

 

[Shin]

This is why I don't post here often: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ru...aiming-higher-than-10-7-teraflops-gpu.107952/

Anyway, I don't know for sure what next-gen specs will look like. I have no idea how many teraflops there'll be. A dev recently told me that a lot of people within studios are just making assumptions based on limited information, and that one of the assumptions is that everything's going to be twice as powerful.

The bigger question IMO is how many platforms people are going to have to ship on. Last generation's cross-platform games had to ship on five -- PS3, 360, PS4, XB1, PC -- which made people miserable and led to a lot of sacrifices. Now that number's getting even bigger thanks to mid-gen hardware refreshes and cloud platforms. That's what I think is ultimately going to hamper AAA games, not hardware restrictions.

Case in point someone went ahead and made a thread based on his initial remark and it got closed over there, but a lot of sites ran with it - GBolt being no exception.
The above quote is a follow up and seems like he's trying to take back what he said, keep an open mind as it's all up in the air and everyone is tight-lipped ATM.

 

[FranXico]

We have already known for a long time that both nextgen MS and Sony console specs would pass 10.7 TFlops.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Seems a pretty safe bet. I would guess at least from MS perspective they are aiming for 12TF+. For one it is physically doable, especially if the price is 499 which is likely. Second it sounds good from a marketing perspective to “have more than double the teraflop performance of the Xbox One X”.

I wouldn’t expect much more than that though. CPU will be the biggest upgrade for the new consoles this time.

 

[Airbus Jr]

We have already known for a long time that both nextgen MS and Sony console specs would pass 10.7 TFlops.

Of course it is...nextgen console should always aim..

 

[Jaxx_377]

I am not very educated in what the hell makes this shit work, but lets say Stadia works as advertised (I know big if). Wouldn't it be easier for Google to update their Data centers to push beyond 10.7 TFlops faster than MIcrosoft or Sony could push out another console after this next one? I Lets say Sony and Microsoft both hit 12 Tflops, how soon could Google go beyond that? If Stadia works how often can it be upgraded since it doesn't have to push out hardware? Will it shorten the next Generations lifecyle?

 

[SonGoku]

Yeah no shit. 12TF is the minimum they will go for

 

[FranXico]

I am not very educated in what the hell makes this shit work, but lets say Stadia works as advertised (I know big if). Wouldn't it be easier for Google to update their Data centers to push beyond 10.7 TFlops faster than MIcrosoft or Sony could push out another console after this next one? I Lets say Sony and Microsoft both hit 12 Tflops, how soon could Google go beyond that? If Stadia works how often can it be upgraded since it doesn't have to push out hardware? Will it shorten the next Generations lifecyle?

Actually, yes. If their SDK is forward-compatible and the games performance scales with the hardware, yes. They can just upgrade their blades at the server sites.
The whole 10.7TF point really is moot, tbqh.

 

[SonGoku]

I am not very educated in what the hell makes this shit work, but lets say Stadia works as advertised (I know big if). Wouldn't it be easier for Google to update their Data centers to push beyond 10.7 TFlops faster than MIcrosoft or Sony could push out another console after this next one? I Lets say Sony and Microsoft both hit 12 Tflops, how soon could Google go beyond that? If Stadia works how often can it be upgraded since it doesn't have to push out hardware? Will it shorten the next Generations lifecyle?

Stadia isnt competing with traditional consoles. Next gen consoles will set the base spec if Stadia hopes to get any decent 3rd party support, it should minimum be on par
also i would think updating their servers will be a costly endeavor unless they have a design such that they can combine boards power but it being a apu design might be hard to

I dont get stadia at all, why didnt they just run windows paid some royalties to ms in exchange for massive third party support PC gets, why so weak?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Wow what news!!!! Most ppls guess on this site are 12tf or maybe a little more. I'll run with tht as often times alot of the stuff we throw around here comes to fruition.

 

[DanielsM]

I dont get stadia at all, why didnt they just run windows paid some royalties to ms in exchange for massive third party support PC gets, why so weak?

The part to build their own custom OS based on Linux makes sense, that might actually be the only part that does. Exactly how much longer do you think Microsoft will support native win32 Windows? Traditional Windows is more than likely winding down i.e. cloud based Windows or window components services are now in the early process of being rolled out, and who do you see working with Microsoft, Citrix.... and for very good reason. Once Microsoft has the services completed, they can roll out end of life notices to windows users and the companies rolling virtual windows desktop services i.e. Amazon Workspace or similar.

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/virtual-desktop/
https://www.citrix.com/blogs/2018/0...e-value-of-microsoft-windows-virtual-desktop/

 

[Hendrick's]

Schreier killing it with obvious shit everyone knows.

 

[Spukc]

Schreier killing it with obvious shit everyone knows.

Please buy his book

 

[SonGoku]

The part to build their own custom OS based on Linux makes sense, that might actually be the only part that does. Exactly how much longer do you think Microsoft will support native win32 Windows? Traditional Windows is more than likely winding down i.e. cloud based Windows or window components services are now in the early process of being rolled out, and who do you see working with Microsoft, Citrix.... and for very good reason. Once Microsoft has the services completed, they can roll out end of life notices to windows users and the companies rolling virtual windows desktop services i.e. Amazon Workspace or similar.

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/virtual-desktop/
https://www.citrix.com/blogs/2018/0...e-value-of-microsoft-windows-virtual-desktop/

uh? what does 32bit has to do with any of it? MS will continue offering 64bit Windows for PCs and laptops for decades
The main advantage to running windows its the instant 3rd party support.

Stadia launched at the wrong time, too weak (early) for next gen, too late for current gen, unless they can flip a switch to stack boards and multiply power

 

[DanielsM]

uh? what does 32bit has to do with any of it? MS will continue offering 64bit Windows for PCs and laptops for decades
The main advantage to running windows its the instant 3rd party support.

Stadia launched at the wrong time, too weak (early) for next gen, too late for current gen, unless they can flip a switch to stack boards and multiply power

Microsoft is in the process of cloudifying all their remaining products (not many to go), the services are not complete i.e. Windows Virtual Desktop service is in preview, they will be rolling out xCloud this year or early next year. And they a working on an application layer to run win32 from Azure. Once all the cloud services are up and running in a few years, they simple send end of life notices to Windows users and offer a few years extended support for $$$ to enterprise and government Windows users.

Windows isn't going away, nor Xbox, they're just in the process of being cloudified - many years to go. It makes zero sense for a competitor to be using Windows at this point as the basis for their own tech. Why? Simple, Microsoft is moving those processes to the cloud and it will eventually not be available. The cloud services are not fully completed yet - soon, over the next 2-4 years, than they can start sending end of life notices if they choose to - probably looking 2027-2028.



win32 is a generic term to me a windows executable whether 32 or 64 bit, either way those are going to be processed in the cloud in the future.

https://mspoweruser.com/secret-win32-apps-polaris-may-rail-vail/

RAIL stands for Remote Application Interface Layer, and would presumably offer Win 32 applications access to the legacy Win32 APIs which Microsoft decided to remove, running safely on a remote Azure server.

Stadia is just where Microsoft wants to go meaning moving Windows to the cloud.

 

[Denton]

RTX2080Ti hits 13.4 TFlops.

I have my doubts that either console will hit that without costing 700+ bucks.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

Yeah, ms wants to be 4k60 for all games, not just forza. That means bumped up to at least 10.7 but more likely want to be sitting on a 1080ti power. Who is manufacturer supplying the gpus to consoles?

 

[SonGoku]

Microsoft is in the process of cloudifying all their remaining products (not many to go), the services are not complete i.e.

Office is "cloudified" yet ms offers the option to purchase it upfront
There will always be a market for running windows locally whether people pay for the OS or go with a subscription based payment doesn't change anything
You need a local computer to acces the cloud anyways so there need for a local os will always be there

Yeah, ms wants to be 4k60 for all games, not just forza. That means bumped up to at least 10.7 but more likely want to be sitting on a 1080ti power. Who is manufacturer supplying the gpus to consoles?

4k 60fps wont be a thing, 60fps is a design decision
I too expect around 1080ti performance for next gen
AMD will be supplying gpus

 

[DanielsM]

Office is "cloudified" yet ms offers the option to purchase it upfront
There will always be a market for running windows locally whether people pay for the OS or go with a subscription based payment doesn't change anything
You need a local computer to acces the cloud anyways so there need for a local os will always be there

Microsoft is offer stuff locally i.e. Android/iOS, I would expect that to continue on mobile. All you need to access to a virtual desktop is a thin-client or a mobile device or chromeos device, etc. You don't need a windows machine. Google is doing what Microsoft has wanted to do. It makes absolutely no sense for a 3rd party competitor to use Windows as the underlying OS for their tech products, because its in the process of going away. From Microsoft perspective, whether win32 support runs locally or remotely is not very material.

I wish you the best of luck but all of this is going cloud, generally speaking.

 

[Freeman454]

Office is "cloudified" yet ms offers the option to purchase it upfront
There will always be a market for running windows locally whether people pay for the OS or go with a subscription based payment doesn't change anything
You need a local computer to acces the cloud anyways so there need for a local os will always be there

Its one of those believers that think/want pc/pc gaming to dissapear people.
Thing is, i see traditional consoles going cloud-only happening, not so much for pc as there will be always a demand for local power/hardware.

PC gaming market is too big for his wishes. Windows just will be both cloud and local.

 

[Shmunter]

2020? Farrrk, I’m going to be shitting in a nappy by the time the next next gen comes around. Do 10 now and bump it mid gen with a pro model for the love of all thats holy.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

Aiming doesn't mean you'll hit lol. 10.7 would be really nice as is, anything more is gravy.

Edit : also even if it's less than 10.7 ; vega flops =/= Navi.

Aiming doesn't literally mean aiming in this context. They'll hit whatever number they choose to hit. It's not like they're trying to beat their max bench press or something.

 

[DanielsM]

Its one of those believers that think/want pc/pc gaming to dissapear people.
Thing is, i see traditional consoles going cloud-only happening, not so much for pc as there will be always a demand for local power/hardware.

PC gaming market is too big for his wishes. Windows just will be both cloud and local.

Actually, I don't think local processing is going to disappear, actually the consumer I believe will reject these things. Virtualized Windows Desktops have existed for a very long time, very few consumers subscribe to those types of services. Windows is a huge burden, meaning win32 legacy support... it will be much easier for Microsoft to support Windows on their own standard virtual environment. The services are not completed and probably won't be for a few more years. Consumers will have to find a different OS platform over the next 5-10 years to do heavy local processing.

Despite your comments, I actually think cloud processing is generally not a good way of performing game type processing, in the business world there is better opportunities to process in the cloud - I use them everyday actually.

Well, I'm out before we derail the thread further but at least Google was smart enough to get off the Microsoft stack, that would have been idiotic to have Windows as the underlying OS.

 

[Freeman454]

I dont see pc gaming dissapearing, nor console. MS wont abandon their os, as local hardware will require an os. Cloud and windows can co-exist.

 

[Mattyp]

Its one of those believers that think/want pc/pc gaming to dissapear people.
Thing is, i see traditional consoles going cloud-only happening, not so much for pc as there will be always a demand for local power/hardware.

PC gaming market is too big for his wishes. Windows just will be both cloud and local.

Don't stress he comes into any conversation about xbox that it's all going to the cloud no more consoles, EVER. Next gen is it so buy up while you can!

 

[DanielsM]

I dont see pc gaming dissapearing, nor console. MS wont abandon their os, as local hardware will require an os. Cloud and windows can co-exist.

I never said they would abandon their OS, no, they are moving it just like they did with almost all their server products and even other OSs like Linux. LOL Microsoft's transition started almost a decade ago, all you have to do is check out their official blogs,. Abandon, no, on the contrary, moving, yes. The world that relies on local win32 processing better start coming up with additional options unless they want to rent cycles from Azure. The difference between Google and Microsoft, Microsoft has to move their existing users - Google has to obtain users but no moving is required i.e. its all in a virtual environment from the get go. (Microsoft might take another stab at a non-win32 machine i.e. Windows RT, S mode, Windows S, etc, but I think that is even suspect at this time)

Amazon WorkSpaces, Microsoft partners that use Citrix, game streaming companies that offer Windows virtual desktops like GeForce and Shadow Tech are in the cross hairs first i.e. Microsoft Windows Virtual Desktop cloud service being rolled out.

I would have to seriously consider the people brain dead at Google if they were to ever consider using Windows as the underlying OS for Stadia - that makes absolutely zero sense as Microsoft can than shut it down by sending an end of life notice. Microsoft has or will have competing a cloud service(s).

 

[Boss Mog]

and it'll be right here in my living room and not in some google server farm somewhere.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I found the wording odd saying they were "aiming" to beat the 10.7.

It really sounds next gen is further out then what many people think because I would think those kind of numbers would be pretty much locked down at this point, with minor tweaks incoming.

 

[rəddəM]

PS4 = 12.4TF and 347TF 16FP
XBox One 2 = 12TF and 0TF 16FP
/True.

 

[Freeman454]

I never said they would abandon their OS, no, they are moving it just like they did with almost all their server products and even other OSs like Linux. LOL Microsoft's transition started almost a decade ago, all you have to do is check out their official blogs,. Abandon, no, on the contrary, moving, yes. The world that relies on local win32 processing better start coming up with additional options unless they want to rent cycles from Azure. The difference between Google and Microsoft, Microsoft has to move their existing users - Google has to obtain users but no moving is required i.e. its all in a virtual environment from the get go. (Microsoft might take another stab at a non-win32 machine i.e. Windows RT, S mode, Windows S, etc, but I think that is even suspect at this time)

Amazon WorkSpaces, Microsoft partners that use Citrix, game streaming companies that offer Windows virtual desktops like GeForce and Shadow Tech are in the cross hairs first i.e. Microsoft Windows Virtual Desktop cloud service being rolled out.

I would have to seriously consider the people brain dead at Google if they were to ever consider using Windows as the underlying OS for Stadia - that makes absolutely zero sense as Microsoft can than shut it down by sending an end of life notice. Microsoft has or will have competing a cloud service(s).

PC gaming aint going cloud-only either. And if it will, consoles sure are first to do so.
There will always be a demand for local processing power, and thus games and software, and with that, OS's.
MS might aswell stay in that business, too.

 

[DanielsM]

PC gaming aint going cloud-only either. And if it will, consoles sure are first to do so.
There will always be a demand for local processing power, and thus games and software, and with that, OS's.
MS might aswell stay in that business, too.

Agree with the first part, disagree with the last part. Just because you want something doesn't mean a company is obligated to give it to you. From their perspective (not mine), they can rent you the OS and the virtual machine in one go - eventually, but the services are not completed. Businesses and governments will sign up for the services, Microsoft makes very little off of consumer Windows but if you want to use it... they will have a service for that, matter of fact, one of the services is in public preview right now. You are over using "demand", from their perspective you aren't losing anything by processing from the cloud - which is why they transformed into a cloud services company. Just because you want to process locally doesn't mean they have to provide it - just like Google is doing or Amazon is doing with WorkSpaces and their cloud services.

The world needs to come up with additional options to run win32 especially for consumers or you'll be renting a virtual box eventually from Microsoft but that is many years out yet as the services are not even completed yet. In the business world, this has been a slow move to virtualized desktops, so real no change there.... slow migration to virtual desktops and elimination of windows when possible.

 

[Last Prime]

L

RTX2080Ti hits 13.4 TFlops.

I have my doubts that either console will hit that without costing 700+ bucks.

Lets not forget that Microsoft may be releasing a standard and a premium version of their next gen console. So I wouldn't be too surprised if the premium version hits that 13 to 14 TF mark.

 

[Calibos]

You know, "no shit news" really is a thing the past 5 years...


One thing that really bugs me is that rumored spec for the "low end" Next gen Xbox. There is talk of a 4-5 TFlop machine aimed at the casual gamer or low cost gamer. Anyone else feeling that this is a mistake? There will be a high end, 12 Tflop option sure, but that low end spec is annoying.

I think they should have at least targeted the One X spec or the low end. With an updated processor and ram spec, that would be a great low end option for next gen. Also, I have heard that their streaming tech server racks are basically One S specifications to allow the whole library to be instantly available. Why not base the rack on One X hardware to start? It runs everything better at a better res....

As an Xbox fan and regular user, some of these decisions baffle me.

 

[Freeman454]

Agree with the first part, disagree with the last part. Just because you want something doesn't mean a company is obligated to give it to you. From their perspective (not mine), they can rent you the OS and the virtual machine in one go - eventually, but the services are not completed. Businesses and governments will sign up for the services, Microsoft makes very little off of consumer Windows but if you want to use it... they will have a service for that, matter of fact, one of the services is in public preview right now. You are over using "demand", from their perspective you aren't losing anything by processing from the cloud - which is why they transformed into a cloud services company. Just because you want to process locally doesn't mean they have to provide it - just like Google is doing or Amazon is doing with WorkSpaces and their cloud services.

The world needs to come up with additional options to run win32 especially for consumers or you'll be renting a virtual box eventually from Microsoft but that is many years out yet as the services are not even completed yet. In the business world, this has been a slow move to virtualized desktops, so real no change there.... slow migration to virtual desktops and elimination of windows when possible.

So, if not MS will provide a OS for local processing and gaming, then someone else will. Somewhere this could actually be a good thing.
Consoles are in the same boat whatsoever.

 

[Alebrije]

 

[DanielsM]

So, if not MS will provide a OS for local processing and gaming, then someone else will. Somewhere this could actually be a good thing.
Consoles are in the same boat whatsoever.

Absolutely, not necessarily a bad thing (or a good thing), but it is something that needs to be planned for - I actually agree with most of your comments. I don't think consumers really want to purchase a monthly/annual subscription to access their virtual windows machine, most people have ditched their PCs for mobile device, as a generalization. These services have existed for a long timer and I highly doubt there are any non-business consumer types renting them in numbers. We'll see how it shakes out, the future is not entirely set, I would be very surprised by a Windows 12 that runs win32. Nice talking to you, again I actually agree with you, I just don't think anyone at Microsoft really cares what we think. LOL From their perspective, they really aren't making much off of consumers anyway - which is why Nadella has generally hacking the remaining consumer products/services.

I think gaming does give them an opportunity to sell "services" i.e. "Look, for $45 a month you get Office 365, Xbox Game Pass, Xbox Live Gold, xCloud ability to run your Xbox games, and a Windows Virtual Desktop to run your win32 games or software.".

Again, nice talking to ya, I appreciate the discussion.

 

[SonGoku]

win32 support runs locally or remotely is not very material.

This is a contradiction, how can it not be material if it keeps running locally on laptops/PCs? Offering a subscription or even service model doesn't affect it or prevent other companies from purchasing a Windows license.

You got no evidence to back up your wild claim that local windows os is going away, its pure baseless speculation on your part
There will always be a market for local computing, not to mention the very profitable specialized works that require it, Ms would be foolish to volutarly give away that market share

Tablets and smartphones are growing ever more powerful trying to emulate computers and ms wants a piece of that pie as well evidenced by them making w10 arm compatible, there's a clear demand for local computing and tradional windows os its not going away, not now and not in the next decades either

that would have been idiotic to have Windows as the underlying OS.

How so? if anything their greediness (not wanting to pay royalties) could potentially bomb their gaming attempt
Unless google intends Stadia to merely be an extension of the android play store, what's their plan for getting 3rd party support for all major releases, how will they atract interest with a library that's not even half of the ps4/xbone? With a Windows license they would have instant acces to a huge library of games and guaranteed 3rd party support.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Schreier killing it with obvious shit everyone knows.

For real. I feel like people here have been stamping down the "12TF at minimum" for over a year.

 

[demigod]

Shreier knows as much as anyone on this board. Doesn't leak anything but calls people wrong, lol.

 

[DanielsM]

This is a contradiction, how can it not be material if it keeps running locally on laptops/PCs? Offering a subscription or even service model doesn't affect it or prevent other companies from purchasing a Windows license.

From their perspective there is no difference, its not a contradiction. I personally have no use for these service at home, but businesses/governments have been moving to virtual desktops over the last decade. Microsoft doesn't want you just to pay a subscription on the OS, but they want to rent the whole virtual box - just like they are doing on the server side and have been, and others have been for a long-time. Microsoft can close off Windows and than rent the OS/virtual machine and take all the customer from Amazon Workspace, Geforce Now, Shadow Tech, insert Microsoft partner running Citrix.

You got no evidence to back up your wild claim that local windows os is going away, its pure baseless speculation on your part
There will always be a market for local computing, not to mention the very profitable specialized works that require it, Ms would be foolish to volutarly give away that market share

Tablets and smartphones are growing ever more powerful trying to emulate computers, there's a clear demand for local computing and tradional windows os its not going away, not now and not in the next decades either

Just because there is demand doesn't mean the company you want to fill the demand will provide you what you want. Google isn't providing what you want either, according to your logic... Google has to provide local processing, hint they don't have to. Not sure what your point is to be honest.

Traditional windows can go away anytime Microsoft throws the switch (very little money is made from consumer windows and they have to keep maintaining legacy code on all these hardware types), unlikely imo until all their services are complete and they can start moving the cattle over to the services, Windows Virtual Desktop is only now in public preview, xCloud later in the year, and they'll probably roll out an application layer from Azure... that way you can run win32 applications without Windows at all... probably a few years out on that. After that you're talking 5+ years of end of life notice, than premium extended support if you wish to pay for it. (the future is not entirely set)

- build cloud services (virtual desktop, xCloud, application layer to run win32 without windows)
- start moving the cattle to the services
- send end of life notices to existing windows user
- offer businesses/corporations extended support options for big $$$
- cut off support for traditional windows
- all the other virtual service providers will have to start turning it off as there will be no future support on the OS i.e. Amazon, MS partners using Citrix, etc.

They are only on step one. I wish you the best of luck though, you'll see in due course. (hint, the business world started this process about 10 years ago, first with servers than a few years later with desktops)

Microsoft's thinking is... they can let you run Adobe Photoshop (win32) on an iPad even if you don't want Windows.

 

[ResilientBanana]

10 seems about right. Anything higher would be above my expectation.

 

[SonGoku]

Microsoft doesn't want you just to pay a subscription on the OS

Just because there is demand doesn't mean the company you want to fill the demand will provide you what you want.

Why would they give away to the competition market share? MS is not that type of company, they want to be in all markets independent of how big or small
The market for local computing in laptops/pc its huge still, even tablets are trying to emulate computers now, why would ms give that market away? it makes no sense

 

[DanielsM]

Why would they give away to the competition market share? MS is not that type of company, they want to be in all markets independent of how big or small
The market for local computing in laptops, pc its huge even tablets are trying to emulate computers, why would ms give that market share away? it makes no sense

Tell that to my Windows Phone (Lumia 640) that runs out of support in 7 months. Because they can make more money running it in the cloud - same reason Google is wanting you to subscribe to their Stadia service - they rent you the whole dam thing, the OS and the virtual machine. For Microsoft, they can probably eliminate most of their Windows devs, as they will only be deploying to their own virtual machine infrastruture - less development and maintenance by a huge margin.

In Microsoft's mind, you should be able to run win32 or uwp or your Xbox games on an iPad via a cloud service i.e. an application layer from Azure. That is service is not yet complete.

You hook up your iOS/Android device up to a monitor or cast it, you either log-in to Windows Virtual Desktop and have a full desktop, or you can run your Xbox games from a streaming app or.... you login to Adobe... they then stream you say Photoshop on an application layer, Microsoft charges Adobe for the cycles... Adobe charges you in turn.... no Windows even needed. The first part is already being done with other providers either through Citrix or say something like Amazon Workspaces, game streaming has been around for long time, which really only leaves the last one to be developed - an application layer that run remotely via Azure.

Thanks for the discussion guy, I do really appreciate - I think things will be more clear in the future. The business world started going in this direction slowly without MS years ago. (got to go for today)

 

[Freeman454]

Both are probably right. On the other hand, just cause MS wants something doesnt mean people will adapt. Aslong as theres a market for local processing, there will be local software for it. I can see this going hybrid which it actually allready is.
AMD, nvidia, intel and all other manufacturers have a hand in this aswell.
MS dropping windows seems.... i mean another company might come with an OS, perhaps a good thing but im not seeing it happening.
Windows like said will probably be hybrid cloud/local, universal platform.
I suspect the same thing for consoles, even with stadia, apple, ps now, xbox stream etc.

Also, phones arent neccerary replacing the pc, rather conplementing. Just like gaming on them doesnt replace consoles.

Its an intresting discussion yes, now with all the game streaming violence taking place and ready to take over pc and console anytime soon.

 

[SonGoku]

Tell that to my Windows Phone (Lumia 640) that runs out of support in 7 months.

False equilevancy, they dropped out of the phone bussines because they failed to gain traction despite huge investments. If they had half the success of ios/android they would still be in.

Because they can make more money running it in the cloud

Why not make even more money by supporting both markets?

same reason Google is wanting you to subscribe to their Stadia service -

Google can't compete in the traditional console playing field, their only hope is to leverage their cloud infrastructure advantage

They can probably eliminate most of their Windows devs, as they will only be deploying to their own virtual machine infrastruture

Whats devs would they eliminate in this hypothetical scenario? what work are they currenly doing that will no longer be the needed? It won't change much, all MS has to do is support the latest CPUs instruction sets, you are acting as if they have to account for every hw variable, hw vendors take care of that with their own drivers

MS dropping windows seems.... i mean another company might come with an OS, perhaps a good thing but im not seeing it happening.

Exactly! even if its not as dominant as it use to be, local computing is a multi billion enterprise, ms would be foolish to give that away to the competition.

 

[FStubbs]

RTX2080Ti hits 13.4 TFlops.

I have my doubts that either console will hit that without costing 700+ bucks.

To be fair, Nvidia flops are bigger than AMD flops.

 

[CagedChicken]

I am not very educated in what the hell makes this shit work, but lets say Stadia works as advertised (I know big if). Wouldn't it be easier for Google to update their Data centers to push beyond 10.7 TFlops faster than MIcrosoft or Sony could push out another console after this next one? I Lets say Sony and Microsoft both hit 12 Tflops, how soon could Google go beyond that? If Stadia works how often can it be upgraded since it doesn't have to push out hardware? Will it shorten the next Generations lifecyle?

I'm going to guess that some clever mind at Google has already considered this. One would think (again, assuming Stadia even works in the first place), that it would be quicker and easier for Google to roll out new hardware in their data centers as needed.

And it's not like they have to replace them all--for the near future at least, most users will probably have bandwidth limitations that mean they would not benefit from a better GPU much anyway, so I would think that Google could be clever enough to see "this player has a 25mbps connection, put them on a standard GPU; this other player has a 100mbps connection, put them on a top end GPU". And then they can maintain a performance mix in the data centers that matches the needs of their customers, gradually shifting from the original GPUs to higher spec GPUs as more of the user base moves to higher bandwidth connections.

 

[Freeman454]

To be fair, Nvidia flops are bigger than AMD flops.

14TFs of Turing is freaking monster. Without RT a 2080Ti does what close 200fps to BFV and tomb raider? Shadow of tomb raider looks ballpark uncharted 4/gow/hzd, maybe not in artskills or gameplay but technically. Being able to run titles like that at those settings/resolution/framerate, i dont think we even need 13TF to see a substantial difference.

 

[Chozofication_]

To be fair, Nvidia flops are bigger than AMD flops.

That isn't accurate, it's more like there is more to an architecture than flops. Flops are the new bits/fillrate

And again, GCN=/=Navi.