You're derailing by focusing on others. Jesse Jackson Jr. is talking about the effect of Apple and its iPad product. The question is whether Apple has added more to the American economy, or if it has taken away from it through externalities.water_wendi said:
This is true. And lets not lose complete sight of what JJJ is trying to say.numble said:
That's because he doesn't know what he's talking about.Bboy AJ said:
Yes, in this case mainly retail jobs. However, it would be nice if the iPad was produced in America.X26 said:
Unless we shut off free trade, it'll just mean $1000 iPads while ASUS, HTC or Samsung come in at $400/$500.Lathentar said:
Ninja Scooter said:
i know Jesse Jackson Jr is talking about the iPad specifically. im talking the idea of what this is really about. Obsolescence of human workers due to technology. This has happened before (telephone switchboard operators for example) but not at the scale and speed it is occurring in the Information Age. Its quite clear there was not a plan to acclimate the mass of unemployed, just a huge rush forward because of decrease in cost. They should have taken five minutes out of their boardroom meetings to ask what would happen when their customers could no longer afford their products because eventually this will boomerang back to them in a big way (People cant buy as much so business go under and people are unemployed which leads to less people buying so more people need to be laid off...).numble said:
Suairyu said:
This is not really about Apple. The only thing Apple has to do with this is that they are one of the suppliers of DD players/readers. The job loss comes from the DD of things that used to be in the physical world. Books, movies, newspapers, magazines, music, software, computer equipment (and soon games), etc. Apple and other companies that benefit from the move from the physical world to the digital, whether its supplying the consumption devices of DD like Apple or just digital storefronts like Amazon, are the only ones expanding. The problem is that their growth is not enough to stop the jobs being hemorrhaged. NetFlix, Apple, and Amazon might be expanding but their expansion is not enough to counter the closure of Sam Goody, Tower Records, Blockbuster Video, CompUSA, Circuit City, Borders and all the other stores that have gone under as a result of not being able to price match businesses with no overhead and questionable tax issues.numble said:
water_wendi said:
There is still cause for concern because companies dont need thousands upon thousands of IT or engineering staff. As software and technology like those by Wolfram become more accurate and cheaper i expect all these specialized education jobs to become obsolete as well. Why pay highly skilled workers when you can license software that does the same thing but without sick days or vacation or unions or health care?Dance In My Blood said:
-COOLIO- said:
fail.DarkJC said:
lawblob said:
numble said:
Once again people dont even understand what is being said. Its sad really.Dreams-Visions said:
You were talking about Apple and the iPad. They have retail stores, and customer service centers staffed by Americans, and they pay full sales tax, not these online-only retailers that avoid taxes and Indian customer service centers. Why do you lump them in with Netflix and Amazon?DarkJC said:
What is used on the iPad?numble said:
i dont know if you or the OP watched the video but from what you have been saying in this thread its unlikely but here is a bit of what was said.numble said:
Apple might have hired people but the problem is the things present on their (and all Digital Distribution) device. When Borders closes down because of ebooks you are losing not only the cashiers and store people but the distribution center workers, the trucking workers, the IT staff that handled the hundreds of stores, the landscaping workers that was hired to make the physical store look attractive on the outside, and any contract work that would have taken place at the real location (plumbers, pest control, carpet cleaning, inventory management, air conditioning, etc).
Those are being killed by Amazon more so than the Apple. Do you see anyone talking about reading eBooks in the iPad thread, or in iPad reviews in general? Publishing company jobs should still be the same, really. Book store jobs have been on the decline because of Amazon skirting taxes and overhead, even before it put out the 2nd whammy of Kindle and ebooks. If you want to talk about job effects external to Apple, you need to include the new app developers on the App Store (many who are on GAF). There was about $1.3 billion paid to developers from the App Store in 2010 (I've already subtracted Apple's take from the $1.8 billion in revenue), and this doesn't include the developers who make money based on ads.Sirpopopop said:
The last year Borders made a profit was in 2006. That was 4 years (maybe even 5 fiscal years) before the iPad was introduced. They had over half a billion dollar debt in 2007. They've been trying to sell the store and close stores down since 2008. They let their CEO go with a $2 million+ severance package in 2009. Borders death is attributable to Amazon skirting overhead and taxes if anything, as well as poor management, such as its over-ambitious expansion plans (opening a Borders across from each Barnes and Noble).water_wendi said:
You might think the iPad is of no value as a paper replacement but it seems Chicago State University thinks differentlynumble said:
video in the OP said:
i agree that Amazons and other digital storefronts have contributed to decline of the book industry but i think that ebooks killed any chance of recovery. If someone shoots a person in the gut and then another guy comes up and slits his throat, it doesnt mean that only the shooter has culpability.
numble said:
If you take a look at the 2009-2010 revenue charts for Borders, it shows a constant decline, there was no downward spike since the introduction of the iPad. Borders is bankrupt and going out of business because it was in debt and losing money for 5 straight years. Not because the iPad was introduced.water_wendi said:You might think the iPad is of no value as a paper replacement but it seems Chicago State University thinks differently
i dont really care how well Apple is doing because its clear from looking at the rest of the fucking country that things are going well for almost everyone else.
i agree that Amazons and other digital storefronts have contributed to decline of the book industry but i think that ebooks killed any chance of recovery. If someone shoots a person in the gut and then another guy comes up and slits his throat, it doesnt mean that only the shooter has culpability.
You need to first provide evidence that Apple has culpability on Borders failings though, or the failings of the publishing industry. News Corp is spending $1 million a month to hire journalists to write for an iPad-only newspaper. USA Today says that the iPad has generated a lot more money (5x) for them compared to the Internet. NY Times is going to make a lot more money on the iPad then they do on the web. And the list goes on. A lot of newspapers get to keep their staff and not lose money, possibly make more money, and this is a bad thing?Sirpopopop said:
i doubt libraries are long for this world.travisbickle said:
water_wendi said:
