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Jimquisition - A Vertical Slice Of Steaming Bullshots
- Thread starter Intheflorsh
- Start date
Really poorly considered stance.
Firstly, they're not 'bullshots', bullshots are stills, derived from the industry's tradition of producing massively higher IQ stills to be used in magazines, still poor form, but not the same thing at all.
Secondly, how is Ubisoft selling WD based on the reveal trailer? They showed it with that fidelity once, two years before the game came out. Ubisoft aren't hiding what WD looks like, it's not false advertising.
If people want to tear Ubi one, that's fair, and it's valid, but that's not his point.
Firstly, they're not 'bullshots', bullshots are stills, derived from the industry's tradition of producing massively higher IQ stills to be used in magazines, still poor form, but not the same thing at all.
Secondly, how is Ubisoft selling WD based on the reveal trailer? They showed it with that fidelity once, two years before the game came out. Ubisoft aren't hiding what WD looks like, it's not false advertising.
If people want to tear Ubi one, that's fair, and it's valid, but that's not his point.
His point about the industry killing itself with shit like this IS a valid one though. It's true, the amount of people saying that the game looks like shit is hilarious, but Ubi has no one but themselves to blame for this.
Personally, I'm still more worried about the massive delay the game got with months of not knowing what a new release date was(in terms of how good the game is actually going to be), but I can understand that idea from a graphics perspective.
Personally, I'm still more worried about the massive delay the game got with months of not knowing what a new release date was(in terms of how good the game is actually going to be), but I can understand that idea from a graphics perspective.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
For a lot of people, I'm sure that's the only footage of the game or maybe, the footage they have in mind when thinking about the game. It was the footage that had more media attention, as one of the first showing of the next-gen era.
Agreed. Original showcasing was on PC, long time ago, newer marketing is focused on "real thing" that users will have chance to play on CONSOLES.
Not even if devs are loosely targeting that game will come out 2 years later on hardware they know not much how powerful will be, how much ram will it have? You are over-reacting.
Please. A 2 year old reveal trailer should NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, look better than the final product. With that said I don't put it all on Ubisoft in this case. Watchdogs was to be a launch window game, because of that fact they had to develop the game on high end PC's rather than final development kits. Ubisoft is to blame for not putting a disclaimer on their trailer stating in big bold letters "NOT INDICITIVE OF THE FINAL PRODUCT. DEVELOPED ON HIGH END PC HARDWARE". Nope, they'd rather pull the wool over unsuspecting gamers eyes.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Maybe it's not false advertising but look at what it has caused. As Jim mentioned in the closer, people are calling the game "shitty looking" because of the impact that trailer has left. Ethical or not it has certainly hurt the game's reputation.
The people who watch a game reveal at E3'13, preorder the game based on the visuals then, and never check it again don't deserve systemic protection.
CambriaRising
Member
No, they are just continuously lying when asked about downgrades. There is no valid apology for what they are doing here, the game looks worse now than it did 2 months before it's original release date and they aren't acknowledging it.
Yeah, fuck them for being normal consumers.
King Mac of Furry Frog
Member
I don't see how you can look at the 2012 trailer and think the console versions would look like that.
But BF4 PS4 looks nearly the same as PC high settings. So why would this game be different to the point where it looks like a serious downgrade?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
They don't deserve to be lied either.
So you're giving a pass to those companies "revealing" a game that will never look like what they're showing you at that moment?
He wasn't talking about two months ago, he was talking about E3'13. The director said the PS4 version will match the E3'14 gameplay presentation from Sony's conference. If he's lying, that is a valid thing to be angry about, but we don't know yet.
You consider that to be normal?
Developers do not know what a game will look like when it's done if it's being shown two years earlier. Expecting it to be the same is absurd. If it looked the same people would bitch there's been no improvements in two years.
As long as they don't hide what it looks like when it comes time to buy it I don't see the problem ethically. I think it's a bad idea, but that's a very different issue.
BibiMaghoo
Member
This sentence took me aback. Do you mean to say that you think they owe an apology to anyone? For downgrading the visuals of a game months before it comes out?
I cannot possibly comprehend how that would make sense at all.
In 2012, consumers didn't even know about the PS4 and Xbox One, so once next gen was revealed it was pretty much assumed that a 2 year old trailer would function as advertised on the new hardware.
Would GAF be happier if WD was 900p on PS4, or would they scream for bloody murder?
Over-reacting? Don't show the fucking game then. There's your solution to that problem. But again, that's not possible for launch window games because, HYPE.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Is it just me or has Jim been losing weight?
CambriaRising
Member
I'm using the word apology in terms of a defense. There is no defense for lying twice about how the game looks when your eyes can tell the difference.
It's just very disappointing to live in an industry with this shit. Dark Souls 2 is not a game I make or break based on its visuals, but that doesn't mean it doesn't sting when From neglects to tell me they significantly downgraded its lighting in the release version while at the same time there's a review embargo.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Yes, that is what your average gamer will do. People on neogaf are obviously a little more invested than your average consumer.
Actually they do more than anyone. Why should consumers not have every protection from corporations?
Stone Ocean
Member
They don't deserve to be antagonized as if it's their fucking fault either.
Not everyone is an enthusiast that wants to dig into previews and the like. For most consumers the outlet for information is the publishers themselves, and guess who's full of shit.
Kind of how I feel I mean personally I'm sick of bullshots and CG trailers its gotten tiresome. I'm glad Jim pointed out pre-orders getting out of hand because I find it so ridiculous. The fact they announce the new Batman game with a CG trailer and then everywhere they have pre-order ads before we even saw the actual game.
Battlefield 4 was kind of the turning point for me on this stuff. I complain about the game a lot but in all honesty this was the first game in a very long time where I truly felt cheated out of my money. I'm not even mad anymore as I am disappointed as I do prefer BF over say COD but I mean BF4 on PS4 was just so dishonest. It basically changed the way I look at buying games now. If I need to wait a day or two for a game even if its one I really want then so be it at this point.
Jim is right when he says that people probably wouldn't care if you just showed the actual game because honestly I don't think people would really care. I personally would rather just see the game but then again I'm not someone who gets hung up on graphics.
Battlefield 4 was kind of the turning point for me on this stuff. I complain about the game a lot but in all honesty this was the first game in a very long time where I truly felt cheated out of my money. I'm not even mad anymore as I am disappointed as I do prefer BF over say COD but I mean BF4 on PS4 was just so dishonest. It basically changed the way I look at buying games now. If I need to wait a day or two for a game even if its one I really want then so be it at this point.
Jim is right when he says that people probably wouldn't care if you just showed the actual game because honestly I don't think people would really care. I personally would rather just see the game but then again I'm not someone who gets hung up on graphics.
Of course that's normal. Enthusiasts like people here are the ones who check in.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Yup
I myself had no desire to see any more then the initial reveal as I didn't want to spoil myself
If it wasn't for the betraylton thread I wouldn't have known till reviews popped up - if then. £wonder how many reviews will note the downgrade...
Canis lupus
Member
I dont care about the P as long as it looks sharp on my 50" Plasma. BF4 on PS4 looks sharp so it's okay.
Can only make a first impression once and the length of time was not initially intentional.
There are different levels of average consumer.
So you believe that whatever the game sells is mostly preorders made June 2012?
down 2 orth
Member
I'm wondering why i haven't seen anyone place blame on the Xbone for the Watchdogs downgrade. Is that totally out of the question? I know the old gen systems are also going to have a big influence but it seemed like ubi was able to make AC 4 turn out ok on the PS4 while looking not so nice on other systems. It seems like there is less divergence now (though i wont try to hide my ignorance on the subject).
CambriaRising
Member
You have your years and information mixed up, it's clear to me that you have no idea of the statements from ubisoft to which I am referring.
Uh yeah. Gaming doesn't exist in a coverage bubble.
That footage still exists on YouTube, gametrailers, etc. It is still being used to show the game in those places.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Obviously, but you know what I mean.
Well people better saddle up for The Division then. Guaranteed it will see a MASSIVE downgrade from the beauty that was the E3 showing if Watch Dogs is any indication of how Ubisoft does their trade shows.
RedAssedApe
Banned
cancel you pre-order/don't buy the game. problem solved.
BibiMaghoo
Member
You mean the 'no visual downgrade' comments since it has been shown again? Yeah, that is kind of shitty, and par for the course when getting statements from PR reps.
I don't agree that the original presentation was a 'lie' though. 'here is our game, it looks great', is not the same as 'here is our game, it will look exactly like this'.
The latter is rarely if ever said, by anyone. And when it happens, it causes a monster scandal - see killzone 2.
I mixed the dates up, but the information is the same.
The director said it will match the E3'13 Sony conference showing. If it doesn't, fine, he's lying, and it's false advertising, but we don't have the game yet, so we don't know.
Stone Ocean
Member
No, but you honestly think that people that did pre order it back should just bend over and accept it?
Guy walks into a GameStop, looks at the shelves and sees Watch Dogs.
"Wow, it's that game from that one trailer from back then! That thing looked good. I'mma pick this up."
Your point is as shallow as Assassin's Creed's gameplay. What Ubisoft did is fucked up, and should be considered false advertising at least on some level.
CambriaRising
Member
And they said that the 2013 footage looks better than the 2012 reveal as well. It doesn't. They have lied twice. The game isn't going to magically get back up to that level in the next few weeks before it goes gold.
Orniletter
Banned
I hate this line of thinking . I really, really do.
It is basically the extension of "Final Fantasy XIII sucked because it went multiplat !!!!1!11! "
Blame the last gen consoles if you want.
And I say that as someone who will never own an XBone.
Then of course Ubi would be redeemed...even though console people would still be screaming murder. But considering what we all know about the game in it's current state...it would be a straight up miracle if the E3 2012 visuals would be beaten (or even matched) on a high-end PC in the final product. The game is coming out in 2 months...
There's a lot of tactics that went into play to get people to preorder WD after E3 2012 (whenever preorders were allowed for a game with no release date at the time). That reveal was one of them, another was WD taking shots at GTAV, and another off the top of the head was the potential launch window release. There could be more.
I would take the bet that the game had the most hype after E3 2012, how we could even quantify preorders from that time to now remains to be seen. It's been waning ever since.
Zabant
Member
What does blaming people who were tricked by ubisoft's falsified launch trailer achieve? other than making you look like an elitist dick with no sympathy for others I mean.
Dictator93
Member
That was hilarious. Jim right on again.
GOod job mentioning the hype expectation generation problem. Consumers are also tied into the bullshot stuff in a weird dialectical way that is not exactly obvious at first.
GOod job mentioning the hype expectation generation problem. Consumers are also tied into the bullshot stuff in a weird dialectical way that is not exactly obvious at first.