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Joe Biden Not running for President

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I for one think it is incredibly closed minded to say that certain groups/ethnicities/minorities/statuses/whatever people should be assumed to support one party or the other. I'm queer, I must vote dem and make every single candidate pick run solely on LGBT issues. I'm Jewish, gotta stay liberal. I like some GOO ideals, best hate everyone and vote for whatever makes Obama mad!

I'm NPA, I'm am completely independent, and I've voted for The donkey, the elephant, and other groups too. I tend to vote for candidates that will benefit me the most, with hurting others the least, and if I am not sure of an issue or don't beleieve in it or want to hinder it, I do the decent thing and simply don't vote on that issue instead of making a misinformed, no-thought vote.

Like... Why is this considered bad or hard to understand?

Because you have no idea who any of these candidates or how voting for them would affect anyone. The fact that you'd jump from Biden to Bernie to Trump to Carson shows your prime concern is with personality, not issues or policy, which is bad and textbook uninformed voting.

This also shouldn't be news to you -- plenty of people in this thread have pointed out how ridiculous your voting preferences are, and why, and you continue to ignore them so you play the "bu-bu-but why don't others understand!!" card.
 
I swear, if the Republicans weren't in such a sad state, this infighting among Democrats this election would be our undoing.

Luckily, the infighting among Republicans is far worse right now.
 
I swear, if the Republicans weren't in such a sad state, this infighting among Democrats this election would be our undoing.

Luckily, the infighting among Republicans is far worse right now.

I'm more worried about enthusiasm among Democrats this time around than the infighting.
 
Nope, he's done GAF said so...
Wouldn't it just be so much easier if we just skipped the whole primary and general election thing?

Lets just let the donors and polls settle the matter today.

I'm more worried about enthusiasm among Democrats this time around than the infighting.
This, and Hillary making some big mistakes and not recovering from them well. The more time she spends in the trenches the stronger and more poised she'd be for the general imho.
 
I for one think it is incredibly closed minded to say that certain groups/ethnicities/minorities/statuses/whatever people should be assumed to support one party or the other. I'm queer, I must vote dem and make every single candidate pick run solely on LGBT issues. I'm Jewish, gotta stay liberal. I like some GOO ideals, best hate everyone and vote for whatever makes Obama mad!

I'm NPA, I'm am completely independent, and I've voted for The donkey, the elephant, and other groups too. I tend to vote for candidates that will benefit me the most, with hurting others the least, and if I am not sure of an issue or don't beleieve in it or want to hinder it, I do the decent thing and simply don't vote on that issue instead of making a misinformed, no-thought vote.

Like... Why is this considered bad or hard to understand?

I think a big problem with this line of thinking is that the jury isn't still out on conservative social policies towards minority groups. You are actively voting for a group of people who can't stand the thought of you.

And and as far as voting for a party which would hurt others the least... the Republican party hasn't been about that since Eisenhower.

If you're voting solely based on economic policy I guess it makes more sense, if you're inclined to believe conservative eco policy works, but then you'd be ignoring an entire spectrum of insanity that comes along with that party.

You don't have to vote Dem, but voting GOP as anything other than a middle/upper class white male is counter-intuitive.
 
You realize Trump has no intention of "burning down" Wall Street, right? He's a corporation himself! He's heavily invested in many other corporations! He's not going to do anything that will hurt his bottom line.

Nah man, Trump is going to close his own tax loopholes for the good of the country! That's how selfless he is.
 
Weird how Hillary has been a Democratic party leader in one form or another since the 90s while the government has gotten away with some of the most heinous shit including multiple illegal military actions that have killed hundreds of thousands of innocents, bankrupt this country, wiped out the social safety net, and so on, and so many are going "well that's just how politics work bernbros" to line up for Hillary, who again, just for the record, wants to keep us in the billion dollar quagmire of Afghanistan and used false intel to justify illegal military action in Libya, which is now a hotbed of terrorism.

This shit is only going to get worse and worse unless we start taking more drastic actions. The Republicans don't give a flying fuck no matter what we do and will never be placated. You can't even guarantee Hillary would win considering how horrendously sexist this country is.

There is a case to be made for accelerationism, as weak as it might be, if the Democrats can't be rallied to do anything but maintain the status quo. It certainly isn't sustainable and the nation has been suffering for a long while now with little hope in our future. We're long past the point of needing drastic change and thinking Hillary will be anything but a colossal disappointment (especially considering nobody can make a real argument beyond "she's electable!!!" (which is bullshit) here) that only lets things slide even more downhill, so the Republicans take back Washington in 2020 anyways.
 
Read the whole speech, and god damn, this part wrecked me, "...I hope there would come a time... Sooner rather than later... When you think of your loved one, it brings a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eyes."

Fuck.
 
I for one think it is incredibly closed minded to say that certain groups/ethnicities/minorities/statuses/whatever people should be assumed to support one party or the other. I'm queer, I must vote dem and make every single candidate pick run solely on LGBT issues. I'm Jewish, gotta stay liberal. I like some GOO ideals, best hate everyone and vote for whatever makes Obama mad!

I'm NPA, I'm am completely independent, and I've voted for The donkey, the elephant, and other groups too. I tend to vote for candidates that will benefit me the most, with hurting others the least, and if I am not sure of an issue or don't beleieve in it or want to hinder it, I do the decent thing and simply don't vote on that issue instead of making a misinformed, no-thought vote.

Like... Why is this considered bad or hard to understand?

Well I am not gay, so I can't tell gay voters how they should really feel about the candidates they like.. or about an issue that affects them personally more than it does me.. But in spite of absolutely everything that Republicans have said in regards towards the gay community, not even about marriage, but moving to allow states to legally discriminate against them, how you could support them. I don't understand.
 
I'm more worried about enthusiasm among Democrats this time around than the infighting.

I don't know, I mean the Democratic debate was the most watched Democratic debate in history by a large margin. People are more interested in politics this election. I'm sure some of that is the Trump factor, sure. But it really seems like to me that people, especially the younger people, are more interested. I think Bernie is also playing a factor in that. Hopefully people like me that will vote for Bernie will show up if Hilary wins instead. Bernie really needs to stress that id he loses as does Clinton.
 
I'm Hispanic and I'm voting for Trump, I'll take him over a corporate puppet

This sentence is hilarious considering Trump is one of the puppeteers, so basically you're saying "I'll take 1985A Biff over original-1985 George"

I tend to vote for candidates that will benefit me the most, with hurting others the least

Which is why you've exclusively mentioned considering voting for people whose social positions regarding your orientation basically amount to "legalize discrimination against them and take away half the benefits they can legally get", because you're all about Maximizing Self-Interest
 
Ugh, these Sanders or GOP posts I keep seeing on the internet are stressing me out. I should probably stop paying attention to the presidential race until the DNC at least.

Pay them no heed.

The random outraged forum post means less than nothing in the scheme of things.
 
SMH.

I really, really, really hope some of you just stay home on election day.

Really? Really? Voting for the Republican candidate just because you like Bernie and Biden over Hillary? Really?

You might as well personally jail me for being gay, take away my parent's Obamacare coverage and deport my whole family for being (legal) immigrants.
 
I feel like Republicans voting Democratic out of spite is not as widespread as Dems voting GOP out of spite.

We really don't have much in the way of hard data, it's speculation based on forum posts.
 
Do you know how you really sway voters who think different to your side? By telling them their opinion doesn't matter and you don't want to see it.
 
I wanna say that I do have massive respect for Bernie for trying to pull the Democratic Party to the left, since we've needed that for a while now. I just think it's better served to start that on a grassroots level.
 
There is a case to be made for accelerationism, as weak as it might be, if the Democrats can't be rallied to do anything but maintain the status quo.

And that case is "it's moronic and will entrench conservatism for at least one generation", which is time I'm not willing to waste because you arbitrarily decided the pace of policy change in this country wasn't good enough anymore.
 
All I can say is Biden would have likely been close to a lock for my voting preference. Despite all the kids table jabs, I've always found him to be rather likable. Not that my vote really matters.
 
I swear, if the Republicans weren't in such a sad state, this infighting among Democrats this election would be our undoing.

Luckily, the infighting among Republicans is far worse right now.

I'm sorry, anyone that can call this cycle "infighting" wasn't watching closely enough at the tail end of the primary for the 2008 election.
 
I wanna say that I do have massive respect for Bernie for trying to pull the Democratic Party to the left, since we've needed that for a while now. I just think it's better served to start that on a grassroots level.

True, and there are still several Democrat debates with at least one less participating.

I'm sorry, anyone that can call this cycle "infighting" wasn't watching closely enough at the tail end of the primary for the 2008 election.

Oh god, hillaryis44 flashbacks....
 
SMH.

I really, really, really hope some of you just stay home on election day.

Really? Really? Voting for the Republican candidate just because you like Bernie over Hillary? Really?

You might as well personally jail me for being gay, take away my parent's Obamacare coverage and deport my whole family for being (legal) immigrants.

And how about all dem handouts? You better give those back before deportation you leech!
 
Weird how Hillary has been a Democratic party leader in one form or another since the 90s while the government has gotten away with some of the most heinous shit including multiple illegal military actions that have killed hundreds of thousands of innocents, bankrupt this country, wiped out the social safety net, and so on, and so many are going "well that's just how politics work bernbros" to line up for Hillary, who again, just for the record, wants to keep us in the billion dollar quagmire of Afghanistan and used false intel to justify illegal military action in Libya, which is now a hotbed of terrorism.

This shit is only going to get worse and worse unless we start taking more drastic actions. The Republicans don't give a flying fuck no matter what we do and will never be placated. You can't even guarantee Hillary would win considering how horrendously sexist this country is.

There is a case to be made for accelerationism, as weak as it might be, if the Democrats can't be rallied to do anything but maintain the status quo. It certainly isn't sustainable and the nation has been suffering for a long while now with little hope in our future. We're long past the point of needing drastic change and thinking Hillary will be anything but a colossal disappointment (especially considering nobody can make a real argument beyond "she's electable!!!" (which is bullshit) here) that only lets things slide even more downhill, so the Republicans take back Washington in 2020 anyways.
but hilary is more electable, muh vote needs to go to the winning team!

EDIT: Lol damn you made that joke already, needless to say I agree with your post
 
SMH.

I really, really, really hope some of you just stay home on election day.

Really? Really? Voting for the Republican candidate just because you like Bernie over Hillary? Really?

You might as well personally jail me for being gay, take away my parent's Obamacare coverage and deport my whole family for being (legal) immigrants.

Who cares about you? This election is about me.
 
By the time the election actually rolls by, a lot of these "Sanders or GOP" folks will realize how crazy that really is. There will be plenty of time for the GOP nominee to demonstrate how far apart they are.
 
By the time the election actually rolls by, a lot of these "Sanders or GOP" folks will realize how crazy that really is. There will be plenty of time for the GOP nominee to demonstrate how far apart they are.

In normal circumstances the losing candidates just endorse the nominee, so they shore up cross-party support. But Sanders' whole thing is that he opposes the Wall Street-funded establishment of which Hilary is the face for. How do you lose the nomination and support someone like that without sounding totally hypocritical?

It's also why I think the idea of a Hilary/Sanders ticket is pretty ridiculous too.
 
Yes, it's called pragmatism.

The other option is worse. It really is that simp!e.

No. That's the problem with politics, people not voting for what they actually want to vote for. I know because I'm in politics and the party I'm with had to suffer multiple times from people that wanted to vote for us but ended up voting for the 'electable' option, just to see that 'electable' option do nothing that they promised.

So yeah, good luck voting for a fraud.
 
By the time the election actually rolls by, a lot of these "Sanders or GOP" folks will realize how crazy that really is. There will be plenty of time for the GOP nominee to demonstrate how far apart they are.
Seriously. We're still more than a year out.

And a LOT can and will happen in that time. It always does.
 
So, would Bill still be called Mr. President, as is tradition? Or would he be called First Man, husband...what?

"President" is a title. I assume they could go with "First Gentleman President Clinton."

It's clunky, and a national disgrace we've never had to figure this shit out before. There's no reason we haven't had a woman lead this nation.
 
I'm just going to quote @Bro_Pair from Twitter here, formatting mine:

I always enjoy seeing liberals get all 60 Minutes on the one socialist guy. "How's he gonna pay for it?? What about Congress?? Get real" These tend to be the same folks building castles in the sky about what Hillary Clinton believes, or who get gulled by campaign stagecraft. Hard-bitten realist when the guy angers ya, Credulous sap when you want to believe harder than Fox Mulder.

BTW I say this as somebody who believes Sanders could probably achieve almost nothing as president aside from being deposed in our 1st coup. But who cares? Fuck it. Vote for the guy you wanna vote for. All Hillary will "achieve" is being a soulless moderate Republican, like Obama. Also, unless you live in like one of 5 states, I have some bad news. Your presidential vote doesn't even matter a little bit. You're in California or New York? Hope you like being one thousandth as important as the stupidest man in Ohio.

I know the mentality so well of people who hate Sanders just for what he represents - he's an affront to society, for hardly being extreme. Sanders doesn't even really touch the polite fiction that America can be fixed! Even he goes along with that lie! And he's still too extreme. All empires die, they don't even try to change until it's too late, and this time the real threat of environmental destruction will get us.

But yeah, you do you and be that realistic wise informed citizen voting for Hillary my dudes. Who's the realist here.
 
No. That's the problem with politics, people not voting for what they actually want to vote for. I know because I'm in politics and the party I'm with had to suffer multiple times from people that wanted to vote for us but ended up voting for the 'electable' option, just to see that 'electable' option do nothing that they promised.

So yeah, good luck voting for a fraud.

Sorry, Bernie has no chance nationally. I'm not willing to have 4-8 years of a Republican controlled government to make a point.

This is the system we've got, whether we like it or not.
 
Like really, Jeeves? "There's a case to be made for accelerationism?" That's the dumbest fucking thing I've read on this forum in quite possibly all 6 years I've been here, and I was posting in the space moors thread.

So instead of more incremental shifts to the left, here's what I personally would look forward to as a disabled dude under your bright "let's run this shit into the ground" idea - and I'm only one of millions of people:

- No way in hell of being insured before my kidneys inevitably fail because the GOP will scrap the ACA, up to and including the "people with pre-existing conditions can get insurance" mandate
- Possibly no way in hell of being insured afterward, because the GOP will move to voucherize Medicare considering it'll control both chambers and the Presidency
- No way to afford housing, food, or basically anything else even if I did, though some quirk, retain insurance after - because food stamps would get cut even further, housing subsidies would disappear, and TANF would get slashed

But hey, at least we won't have $hillary in the White House.
 
In normal circumstances the losing candidates just endorse the nominee, so they shore up cross-party support. But Sanders' whole thing is that he opposes the Wall Street-funded establishment of which Hilary is the face for. How do you lose the nomination and support someone like that without sounding totally hypocritical?

It's also why I think the idea of a Hilary/Sanders ticket is pretty ridiculous too.

I can almost guarantee he endorses Hillary. You realize he's voted with the dems like 95% of the time right?
 
I don't see that ever happening either. If anyone watched the debate, O'Malley looks like the clear, safe, and jacked candidate for that gig.

O'Malley feels like more of a lock for a cabinet position to me (and given how many times he dropped "renewable energy grid by 2050" in the debate, I'm guessing he wants Secretary of Energy). I don't really know what O'Malley would bring to the ticket to advantage Hillary.

A lot of people seem to favor Julian Castro, because he's young and Hispanic, but that feels like a hype for the sake of hype thing than based on actual credentials.
 
In normal circumstances the losing candidates just endorse the nominee, so they shore up cross-party support. But Sanders' whole thing is that he opposes the Wall Street-funded establishment of which Hilary is the face for. How do you lose the nomination and support someone like that without sounding totally hypocritical?

It's also why I think the idea of a Hilary/Sanders ticket is pretty ridiculous too.

Because Bernie understands that not voting for Clinton (if/when she wins the nomination) is tantamount to a vote for the Republicans. It is the very reason why he is running for the Democratic nomination and not as an Independent.
 
No. That's the problem with politics, people not voting for what they actually want to vote for. I know because I'm in politics and the party I'm with had to suffer multiple times from people that wanted to vote for us but ended up voting for the 'electable' option, just to see that 'electable' option do nothing that they promised.

So yeah, good luck voting for a fraud.

This myopic idealism ignores that the prospect of a republican win is legitimately terrible news. The downsides are so great that electing anyone on the democratic side is preferable to such a degree that practicality demand we support whoever will best help us avoid this.
 
I really like Bernie Sanders and will still vote for him in the primaries, but I make no apologies about being a pragmatic voter.

Yes, Hillary Clinton's relationship with Wall Street makes me uncomfortable, but her platform still comes far closer to Bernie Sanders' than any single Republican running. Other than that, I have no strong negative feelings against Hillary Clinton. If she wins the nomination, I have no qualms against voting for her, especially considering whomever her opponent will be in the GE.

Be pragmatic. Vote. You're not always going to get the 100% perfect candidate.

And if you're a Bernie supporter who threatens to vote Republican if Hillary wins the nomination, I don't even know what to say to that other than your political outlook must be severely damaged.

Bernie fans, don't be this election's PUMA folks.
 
Sorry, Bernie has no chance nationally. I'm not willing to have 4-8 years of a Republican controlled government to make a point.

This is the system we've got, whether we like it or not.
I believe he does. Aren't people in the middle rather voting against the GOP that against Bernie?
 
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