• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

John Lennon's killer's 7th parole hearing. Update: Not being released.

Status
Not open for further replies.
If he's found to be rehabilitated, then I don't see why he shouldn't be let out. Yes, I too love John Lennon's work, but that's not reason enough for me to be unjust to this guy.

Because he KILLED some one. You can not undo that, there is no taking that back. There's no hey really sorry about that mate I've learned my lesson all good right chap.

Lennon never got to see his kids as adults, didn't get to grow old with Yoko, didn't eventually give up their stupid argument and reconcile with Paul. I use those specifics but it wouldn't matter if it was a celebrity or not.

You kill some one you take away their future, the future they would have shared with their loved ones, and you take away all of their rigs for ever. You do not deserve to ever have rights or a future of your own again.

This isn't a robbery, a drug offense, hacking some computers, or any numerous number of crimes some one can commit. This is murder, you have taken the life of another individual, there is nothing you can do that can undo that.

How is it unjust that a killer should stay in jail for the rest of their life.
 
Rehabilitation clearly isn't the only goal of prison. Punishment and public safety being just a couple off the top of my head.

Anyway, no he shouldn't be released.
 
Because he KILLED some one. You can not undo that, there is no taking that back. There's no hey really sorry about that mate I've learned my lesson all good right chap.

Lennon never got to see his kids as adults, didn't get to grow old with Yoko, didn't eventually give up their stupid argument and reconcile with Paul. I use those specifics but it wouldn't matter if it was a celebrity or not.

You kill some one you take away their future, the future they would have shared with their loved ones, and you take away all of their rigs for ever. You do not deserve to ever have rights or a future of your own again.

This isn't a robbery, a drug offense, hacking some computers, or any numerous number of crimes some one can commit. This is murder, you have taken the life of another individual, there is nothing you can do that can undo that.

How is it unjust that a killer should stay in jail for the rest of their life.

His killing of a man does not make his serving 31 years of a 20 year sentence any less unjust
 
Because he KILLED some one. You can not undo that, there is no taking that back. There's no hey really sorry about that mate I've learned my lesson all good right chap.

Lennon never got to see his kids as adults, didn't get to grow old with Yoko, didn't eventually give up their stupid argument and reconcile with Paul. I use those specifics but it wouldn't matter if it was a celebrity or not.

You kill some one you take away their future, the future they would have shared with their loved ones, and you take away all of their rigs for ever. You do not deserve to ever have rights or a future of your own again.

This isn't a robbery, a drug offense, hacking some computers, or any numerous number of crimes some one can commit. This is murder, you have taken the life of another individual, there is nothing you can do that can undo that.

How is it unjust that a killer should stay in jail for the rest of their life.


Because pre-meditated murder is complex. It is often the result of numerous psychological phenomena interlocking with each other.

The judicial system works best where it stresses on rehabilitation rather than vindication.
 
i'm pretty sure i'm not part of this "we", but i feel they both should have received much shorter sentences.

it's probably just me coming from a totally different background to, i assume, mostly american posters. where i live it's very rare for a murderer to serve more than 10-12 years, often getting a lot less, so the prison sentences i read about in america (especially for crimes that lead to no deaths) are rather shocking.

That's fair enough, and I understand different countries have different perspectives. I think the US justice system has a ton of problems. The way we sentence non-violent drug offenders is COMPLETELY screwed up for example. I do think though the view that murderers can be released earlier or even SHOULD be is somewhat problematic. I think it's very dependent on the crime specifically and if there are other violent offenses and the measurable levels of rehabilitation. The reality is though there are some people that should NEVER be released on society because they're just too violent and too far beyond redemption, or they're even an outright predator.

I think that there are certainly cases where rehabilitation is possible. A man who kills his wife in a drunken rage. A woman that threw an object at her husband during an argument and hit him right in the head, killing him, etc. I think though there are a lot of killers that stalk their victims, that select them, that LURE them and they should never see the light of day. The US has caught a large number of serial killers who can never be released and nor should they be.

Just to briefly touch on it, I think a serial rapist should also be locked away for life as well because they were preying on people and only stopped because they were caught. Many sexual offenders can act perfectly normal interacting with others as well and thus can fool people into thinking they've been "rehabilitated" when the reality is they haven't been. So there too I think that even though no deaths resulted a life sentence would be justified. I DO agree though for non-violent offenders the law is often too harsh.
 
Because pre-meditated murder is complex. It is often the result of numerous psychological phenomena interlocking with each other.

The judicial system works best where it stresses on rehabilitation rather than vindication.

Lots of things are complex. It doesn't change the fact that you took away that person's future, you affected the future of all their loved ones. You don't get a free pass cause you talked to a shrink for X number of years and they think you won't do it again.

Show any numbers where rehabilitation works. I could have sworn the numbers show the exact opposite, specially for those who commit violent crimes.
 
It would be eye for an eye if they were calling for the death penalty. THAT would be an eye for an eye. Since when is it a liberal value to want murderers to run free? Thinking murderers should be kept in jail is a pretty damn apolitical viewpoint.
I don't think you know what eye-for-eye even means.

Sure, but when people start to reason like this, I really don't know what to think.
If you murder someone in cold blood like this, you should go to jail for life. Period. You take an innocents persons life, not in a fight or some kind of struggle but pure pre-planned murder? You don't deserve to have your life back after that.

Go ahead and let him out

...when John Lennon's family and loved ones forget they ever knew him.
Because he KILLED some one. You can not undo that, there is no taking that back. There's no hey really sorry about that mate I've learned my lesson all good right chap.

How is it unjust that a killer should stay in jail for the rest of their life.



Honestly, that only means you aren't for Capital punishment for some kind arbitrary reason like "sanctity of life". You are pretty much saying someone doesn't deserve their life the moment they killed some else. Why keep up the farce and put them in prison?
 
who cares, let him go.. he served his time

you guys are weighin in on this too much because it was Lennon.

if it would have a normal average guy, you wouldn't be up at arms
 
Sure, but when people start to reason like this, I really don't know what to think.







Honestly, that only means you aren't for Capital punishment for some kind arbitrary reason like "sanctity of life". You are pretty much saying someone doesn't deserve their life the moment they killed some else. Why keep up the farce and put them in prison?


Just because people don't want to see a killer go free is not the same as supporting the death penalty.

I'm not saying the guy should be killed, but I also don't think he should be free to walk the streets as he damn well pleases. They're two different things.
 
who cares, let him go.. he served his time

you guys are weighin in on this too much because it was Lennon.

if it would have a normal average guy, you wouldn't be up at arms

How can you just assume and generalise everyone in the thread like that, I'm not a fan of the Beatles or Lennon and my opinion (and I'm sure many others here) would be the same regardless of who was killed, people have said as much in this thread.

Also it's 20 years to life.
 
who cares, let him go.. he served his time

you guys are weighin in on this too much because it was Lennon.

if it would have a normal average guy, you wouldn't be up at arms

Why are people saying no? Kneejerk reaction just because of famous person? He's done his time, right?

And why do you think he has done his time ?

Famous or not, murder shouldn't even be qualified for a parole.

I can't believe someone wants a murderer(who they doesn't even know) walk the streets again just because "he served his time". smh.

Oh btw, I was born in '86, I don't listen to the Beatles or even care for anyone in the band.
 
That's fair enough, and I understand different countries have different perspectives. I think the US justice system has a ton of problems. The way we sentence non-violent drug offenders is COMPLETELY screwed up for example. I do think though the view that murderers can be released earlier or even SHOULD be is somewhat problematic. I think it's very dependent on the crime specifically and if there are other violent offenses and the measurable levels of rehabilitation. The reality is though there are some people that should NEVER be released on society because they're just too violent and too far beyond redemption, or they're even an outright predator.

I think that there are certainly cases where rehabilitation is possible. A man who kills his wife in a drunken rage. A woman that threw an object at her husband during an argument and hit him right in the head, killing him, etc. I think though there are a lot of killers that stalk their victims, that select them, that LURE them and they should never see the light of day. The US has caught a large number of serial killers who can never be released and nor should they be.

Just to briefly touch on it, I think a serial rapist should also be locked away for life as well because they were preying on people and only stopped because they were caught. Many sexual offenders can act perfectly normal interacting with others as well and thus can fool people into thinking they've been "rehabilitated" when the reality is they haven't been. So there too I think that even though no deaths resulted a life sentence would be justified. I DO agree though for non-violent offenders the law is often too harsh.

i agree that there are people who should not be released, but these individuals do not belong in prison. if it's clear someone is unfit to ever be allowed to be free, then prison, which should be rehabilitative, is not the place for them. they belong in mental hospitals.
 
You're going to find plenty of arguments that are based in sentiment and emotion, and feelings of revenge/justice on subjects like this - such as "murder can never be forgiven, a life can never be restored" etc.

But unfortunately, life is painted in shades of grey. That's the reality.

I don't think every single person involved in a killing should be in a cage for the rest of their lives. There are always circumstances. Some people who commit murder actually are making an idiotic mistake, or were caught up in circumstances they were not mature enough to cope with. In those cases, it is possible that a person can be rehabilitated, can fully comprehend what they did, and do feel as much remorse as someone possibly can.

There are people who made the ultimate mistake and killed someone, who HAVE spent the rest of their life doing everything they can for society, to make as much compensation as a human being can. It would be useless for everyone, except the revengers, to keep certain people locked up in a kennel.

Having said that.

I am very skeptical of a person like Lennon's killer, not because John Lennon was famous - but because most cases of celebrity stalking and murder seem to involve a certain kind of premeditation that probably indicates a personality truly bent in a particular way.

In these cases, long after the crime is committed, keeping the perpetrator in a cage does little other than make people feel some idea of justice is being served. But they may also not be appropriate for release into society. It's these cases where I feel it's more ethical to keep a certain number of such persons in a form of asylum, separated from the population, but not caged. Such people may even be able to feel genuine remorse for what they did - but can't be trusted with living in the general population.


i agree that there are people who should not be released, but these indivudulas do not belong in prison. if it's clear someone is unfit to ever be allowed to be free, then prison, which should be rehabilitative, is not the place for them. they belong in mental hospitals.

Yeah, the US is pretty twisted in that it wants to see prison as a place of punishment and everlasting revenge on people who do bad things. But here is an analogy - an individual living consumed by a need for revenge their entire life becomes deranged. And I think that it scales up. A society that, as a whole, lives with the need for revenge, that doesn't end, becomes deranged as a group. As a culture. We cannot continue to play lip service to prison and punishment as 'rehabilitative' then go around treating it for all practical purposes as an method of revenge and ongoing torment so that we can feel 'better' about someone 'getting what they deserve'. Correctional facilities should in fact be correctional, with time served limited to something that is not the balance of a person's life. And people who cannot be released into the general population should, until we someday have a better and more ethical solution, be sequestered in asylum.
 
Rehabilitation clearly isn't the only goal of prison. Punishment and public safety being just a couple off the top of my head.

Anyway, no he shouldn't be released.

Uh if a person is rehabilitated then public safety isn't an issue. Punishment is the means, not the end. If a person is truly rehabilitated, they should be let go, regardless of how long they have served.

Yeah, the US is pretty twisted in that it wants to see prison as a place of punishment and everlasting revenge on people who do bad things. But here is an analogy - an individual living consumed by a need for revenge their entire life becomes deranged. And I think that it scales up. A society that, as a whole, lives with the need for revenge, that doesn't end, becomes deranged as a group. As a culture. We cannot continue to play lip service to prison and punishment as 'rehabilitative' then go around treating it for all practical purposes as an method of revenge and ongoing torment so that we can feel 'better' about someone 'getting what they deserve'. Correctional facilities should in fact be correctional, with time served limited to something that is not the balance of a person's life. And people who cannot be released into the general population should, until we someday have a better and more ethical solution, be sequestered in asylum.

Agreed.
 
Uh if a person is rehabilitated then public safety isn't an issue. Punishment is the means, not the end. If a person is truly rehabilitated, they should be let go, regardless of how long they have served.

Not all people can be rehabilitated. And why does it matter if it's 'the means not the end' it's still a purpose for why prisons exist.

So if a person is rehabilitated after a year of raping someone they should go free? Thank god you're not in charge.

It's all in your head if you think prisons sole purpose is to rehabiltate people.
 
If this guy has been rehabilitated then he should be let go, if not then let him sit on it a few more years.

A lot of people in this thread seem to think prison should be used for revenge. If somebody can become a productive member of society and can be trusted reasonably well to not repeat their crimes, then that's the job done.

If you want people locked up for the rest of their lives, it's frankly more humane to just kill them outright, because imprisonment with no hope of rehabiliation and thus release is just torture.

Edit: and I agree that prison is about punishment in addition to rehabilitation, but pure punishment can't last over 30 years. That's half a lifetime. Try to put that number into actual perspective.
 
You're going to find plenty of arguments that are based in sentiment and emotion, and feelings of revenge/justice on subjects like this - such as "murder can never be forgiven, a life can never be restored" etc.
Yeah, I should honestly refrain from posting in these threads. Since I tend to make overstatements, when it comes to these subjects. I should just let you post, way more articulate and more thought out then mine anyway.
 
Chapman planned for three months on how to kill Lennon. Premeditated to the nth degree. Nobody who plans out a murder like that should be released.
 
somebody is gonna kill this guy when he gets out according to some of you? Beatles fans go hard I guess, never knew.
 
Mentally ill individual that was never given the help needed, and pleaded guilty rather than the clear insanity he'd been in the thrall of for a very long time.

But he murdered a very popular person, so thats that.
 
Because he KILLED some one. You can not undo that, there is no taking that back. There's no hey really sorry about that mate I've learned my lesson all good right chap.

Most murderers are out in far less time than 31 years. And most murderers don't end up committing another murder. I briefly looked up one study and found zero repeat murderers out of 336.

Yes it's a horrible thing what Chapman did. He has served his time though. I think he deserves a good faith parole hearing.
 
Not all people can be rehabilitated. And why does it matter if it's 'the means not the end' it's still a purpose for why prisons exist.

Then they don't go free.

So if a person is rehabilitated after a year of raping someone they should go free? Thank god you're not in charge.

Yup.

It's all in your head if you think prisons sole purpose is to rehabiltate people.

Yet you cannot supply any other purpose except contradictory, tabloid-grade nonsense.
 
Then they don't go free.



Yup.



Yet you cannot supply any other purpose except contradictory, tabloid-grade nonsense.

Contradictory? How so? What has tabloids got to do with it. You can live in lala land thinking prison is just rehabilitation but it isn't. If someone comits a crime they need to be punished for it, that's one of the purposes of prison end of.

A rapist who has yet to be rehabilitated (if at all) it's important to keep them in prison for society's safety. You're coming out with complete rubbish if you think a rapist should serve just one year if he's been rehabiltated.
 
The only time Mark Chapman will have served his time is when he dies, whether he gets released in 5 days or 5 years, under his own or a new identity.

He'll never walk the streets again like you or l, he'll always be the guy who killed John Lennon.

Personally, I'll be surprised if he ever gets released, nor should he. If only for his own safety.

I'm wondering how many people in this thread were actually alive when Lennon was killed.

Me, I was 23 in 1980 ....no grandpa puns please :)
 
Contradictory? How so? What has tabloids got to do with it. You can live in lala land thinking prison is just rehabilitation but it isn't. If someone comits a crime they need to be punished for it, that's one of the purposes of prison end of.

Contradictory because you were talking about public safety being a reason to keep someone imprisoned even if they've been rehabilitated. If they truly have been rehabilitated then there is no public safety issue, period.

A rapist who has yet to be rehabilitated (if at all) it's important to keep them in prison for society's safety.

No shit?

You're coming out with complete rubbish if you think a rapist should serve just one year if he's been rehabiltated.

The purpose of the system is to convert criminals into functional members of society. Why on earth would you continue to pay to keep somebody locked inside a prison when they are no longer a danger to society and could finally be giving something back?
 
Chapman planned for three months on how to kill Lennon. Premeditated to the nth degree. Nobody who plans out a murder like that should be released.

True, it was quite deranged. But that was 30 years ago.

Given 30 years of rehabilitation, do you think a person like that can be reformed? Or are they lost forever?

Your post has the underpinnings that he is the same man he was 30 years ago. 30 years ago, were you the same person as you are now? Were you even alive?

To say he's still that deranged psychotic menace to society would be quite sad, and, IMO, a failure of our justice/prison system.
 
That really doesn't have any bearing on this at all.

You can't make it personal - justice isn't personal.

So many ppl seemingly more pissed because it was Lennon, rather than the average Joe. So I'm wondering if people were actually old enough at the time for this to be a personal issue.
 
Legally, there are different levels of homicide. Looks to be considered second degree in New York. But make no mistake...This was premeditated. He wanted to take the life of another human being. It doesn't matter his rationale.

When you start putting time frames on this kind of thing it just becomes arbitrary. What if he's "rehabilitated" after a week? What if he's a great actor and can fake his "rehabilitation?" Prison is as much a deterrent as it is anything. "This is what happens when you decide to murder someone."

I just don't see premeditated murder as a "go sit in your cell and think about what you've done" kind of thing. Don't commit murder if you don't want to go to prison for the rest of your life.
 
What if he's "rehabilitated" after a week?

That's what sentencing is for.

If you get rehabilitated in week one, then you get at least 19 years and 51 weeks to think about what you did.

mdphilli said:
What if he's a great actor and can fake his "rehabilitation?"

Parole boards lean heavily on psych evaluations.

Not to say the system is perfect (life is not a Law & Order SVU episode), but it's not like every single person that commits murder is locked up forever. The parole system is designed to hash this stuff out.
 
His killing of a man does not make his serving 31 years of a 20 year sentence any less unjust

It's a 20 years to life sentence. 20 years is the minimum he could serve. People who are convicted of armed robbery go to prison longer than 31 years where I live. Hell with second-degree murder you are looking at 40 years where I live.
 
It's a 20 years to life sentence. 20 years is the minimum he could serve. People who are convicted of armed robbery go to prison longer than 31 years where I live. Hell with second-degree murder you are looking at 40 years where I live.
The area where you live has excessive sentences. someone who commits 2nd degree murder at the age of 18 will be nearly 60 by the time they are eligible to be released.
 
Guy is crazy. That's what's keeping him in jail.

Fun fact, he went to my parents' high school. My aunt even had classes with him. Said he was a typical creepy high school dude. (This has no bearing on anything, just a weird coincidence).
 
The area where you live has excessive sentences. someone who commits 2nd degree murder at the age of 18 will be nearly 60 by the time they are eligible to be released.

What is with your focus on the murderers age? That's also 42 years the victims would've had if they hadn't had their life taken from them.
 
The point of prison is to normalise and rehabilitate. At some point, you want killers turned into non-killers and able to go out and be a productive member of society, thus giving back to people via taxes.

So what's counterproductive about parole in achieving that goal?
The point of prison is to make profit. Not for tax payers of course.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom