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[makingmusic476]

I wouldn't mind local governments funding sports stadiums if they owned one or more of the sports franchises that'd play therein.

Helping to finance a longterm investment like that becomes a problem when the privately owned occupants can threaten to leave if they don't get new stadiums and upgrades whenever they want.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I wouldn't mind local governments funding sports stadiums if they owned one or more of the sports franchises that'd play therein.

Helping to finance a longterm investment like that becomes a problem when the privately owned occupants can threaten to leave if they don't get new stadiums and upgrades whenever they want.

Exactly, this just ends up bankrupting states while some billionaire becomes a multi billionaire.

 

[Voysa Reezun]

Actually, most of the pressure on sports arena subsidies comes from the more ideologically pure groups. The more staunchly liberal decry handouts to billionaires and the more staunchly conservative decry the spending of government money on what they see as a trivial city project.

I do think we might be reaching peak public ransackings, though. Wisconsin, for example, barely pushed through money for the Packers. The Packers! Glendale made a stupid deal to keep the 'Yotes, but at least they're trying to correct that now. Oakland is basically going to pick one of the Athletics or Raiders rather than finding money to pay them both. It's a start.

 

[Gigglepoo]

As someone who adores sports as a whole and the NFL/NBA specifically, I think its despicable that tax payers have to pay for the stadiums of billionaires to be built. The people of Milwaukee should not have the threat of the Bucks skipping town dangled over their heads, especially considering they just had to shell out money for other stadiums to be built.

As long as the sports owners are making money on these stadiums, and charging the tax payers to attend games, they should have to fund it privately. We need a federal law that states just that. So many owners use the leverage of moving the team to shake tax payers for ever more money. It's incredibly unfair but it will continue as long as it's legal to do so.

I'm glad that I live in California. If you want a new stadium, you've got to fund it yourself.

 

[makingmusic476]

You act like every stadium in the world that uses public money doesn't also have the same justifications. The problem is that 5 years down the road when you can evaluate what actually happened it always turns out that property taxes didn't rise as much as expected, the local development never materialized as the price tag inevitably rose and true projections turned out to be worse than the earlier ones, etc. You can't judge a project by the projections used to justify it.

One fundamental question, if it is such a great deal that is guaranteed to make money, why does it need public funding in the first place?

I don't think they seek public funding because they need it. They do it because they can get it.

Here in New Orleans, there's always the spectre of a move to San Antonio lurking about that encourages the state and city throw the Saints some cash for Superdome renovations or whatever else they want. If they were to build a new stadium using entirely private money, why do it here when they can move to a larger metro area that has no NFL team? And maybe get that metro area to pony up some cash?

 

[OldAsUrSock]

Funding sport stadiums is just as worthless to society as funding NPR and other art programs. People want the government to spend money on stuff they find entertaining. I am sure somebody has a rationalization on why it is different.

Hold on there. NPR produces quality work unlike CNN and FOX.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Is there any single thing in the US that is not corrupted to the core? xD

Soccer

 

[IISANDERII]

I always think that John Oliver will run out of material but then bam! Here's something else, another black eye for America as the common man is again sodomized.

Anyway so I take it this doesn't happen in Europe and why ManU plays in a stadium which is 100+ years old?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Funding sport stadiums is just as worthless to society as funding NPR and other art programs. People want the government to spend money on stuff they find entertaining. I am sure somebody has a rationalization on why it is different.

the people at npr aren't billionaires making money off the taxpayer funding they get

 

[bloodyroarxx]

Markham, Ontario said no to a scheme similar to Quebec (hoping for an NHL team)

The problem there is MLSE, MLSE is a fucking blight on sports in southern ontario.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I always think that John Oliver will run out of material but then bam! Here's something else, another black eye for America as the common man is again sodomized.

Anyway so I take it this doesn't happen in Europe and why ManU plays in a stadium which is 100+ years old?

The European soccer relegation system essentially prevents this from happening there. Those clubs have no guarantee of playing top flight soccer (though for giants like Man U, Bayern, or Real Madrid and others, it's a given on account of their endless resources). Kinda hard to get the public to pony up funds under those circumstances. Plus, the clubs are closely linked with their communities, as every city has a club, it's just that many are stuck in the 3rd or 4th Divisions. Man U could move to Nottingham, for example, but people who live there support Nottingham Forest. Such a relocation would just be bizarre, and therefore doesn't serve as a threat to secure public funding.

That said, local governments can aid their local clubs through other means. I know Barcelona and Real Madrid have passed some laws to favor lesser taxation on soccer players so the clubs could essentially pay those players more as a result, so there's not a complete lack of public support in Euro soccer.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

A Korean Auto-Racing Debacle, but Hope Around the Bend

But many in South Korea say the Yeongam circuit, which was funded mostly with public money, was ill-conceived from the start. As early as 2007, Parliament’s budget office and a government research institute warned that South Jeolla’s revenue forecasts for the project were exaggerated. In January, a civic group filed suit against former provincial officials over the track, asking prosecutors to bring criminal charges for breach of trust.

 

[bodyboarder]

I wouldn't mind so much if they got a cut. Don't get me started on Olympic bids etc.

 

[FrenchToastDisciple]

After over 10 years and 3 ownerships using the LA card the Vikings got us to pony up... now we have this massive thing being built... I believe its at a Billion dollars. So we know the LA threat very well here..

And I wont be able to afford to go to it for years..... but I will be helping pay for it you betcha.

Fuck this thing. That fraud Wilf (literally, look at his legal records) took the state for a ride something fierce on this one. The only positive is that at least it's prettier to look at than the Metrodome was.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Funding sport stadiums is just as worthless to society as funding NPR and other art programs. People want the government to spend money on stuff they find entertaining. I am sure somebody has a rationalization on why it is different.

This analogy doesnt work because NPR still needs donations to survive, and don't have billionaires profiting off NPR. Also art funding is always needed.

 

[The Technomancer]

If the Vikings had anything even approaching a legit fan base here, then I could maybe swallow the absurdity in building this $1 billion gaudy monstrosity. Instead we have a population that routinely opposed public financing in polls, were so uninterested in attending even a 2008 playoff game it was almost blacked out after taking the NFC North title, and when the possibility of a move reared its head due to a potential lack of public funds - the purple faithful turned out in laughable numbers at the Capitol. Truly, the audobon society may have had a better turnout protesting the bird-killing glass.

I'm not going to lie it took me like three weeks of commuting past the metrodome every day for me to notice that the deconstruction had begun last year

 

[RevoDS]

After over 10 years and 3 ownerships using the LA card the Vikings got us to pony up... now we have this massive thing being built... I believe its at a Billion dollars. So we know the LA threat very well here..

And I wont be able to afford to go to it for years..... but I will be helping pay for it you betcha.

This thing looks like a disaster in terms of maintenance costs.

You guys will be paying for decades.

 

[vas_a_morir]

BTW, PBS used to have a ton of sellouts, but people stopped going to Bengals games, despite having their most successful period in 25 years, out of hate of Mike Brown and his fleecing of the city.

I'm just glad to have the Bengals removed from the Reds field with the new stadiums. Riverfront sucked ass. I just wish it was more like 3 rivers stadium in Pittsburgh. (lol)

 

[sangreal]

They attract toursists and increase land value.

They really don't -- and to the extent they do, it isn't enough to recoup the cost over the life of a stadium. That's the whole point.

After over 10 years and 3 ownerships using the LA card the Vikings got us to pony up... now we have this massive thing being built... I believe its at a Billion dollars. So we know the LA threat very well here..

And I wont be able to afford to go to it for years..... but I will be helping pay for it you betcha.

At least it looks dope. Better than the parking garage we got in NJ

 

[vern]

They attract toursists and increase land value.

But the teams are owned by billionaires that can easily afford to finance a stadium on their own dime. The problem is most obscenely wealthy people get that way by exploiting everyone else for their own benefit. Publicly funded stadiums are a prime example.

 

[Enron]

Sports is religion for many people. The new opiate for the masses. These people are more than willing to let governments foot the bill to their own detriment.

I find it pathetic that people get so invested in their local professional sports teams, filled with players who are solely loyal to their paychecks and will leave in an instant.

Few things unite people like sports. How pathetic, indeed.

 

[EatinOlives]

This analogy doesnt work because NPR still needs donations to survive, and don't have billionaires profiting off NPR. Also art funding is always needed.

Not to mention there's a big difference between NPR running on a small budget + donations, and billionaire teams getting cushy subsidies on multimillion dollar facilities from the taxpayer without their direct approval, then turning around and charging those same taxpayers top dollar for the privilege of setting foot in said stadium.

 

[Takamura-San]

This Chargers fan wants a new stadium in San Diego. I would like it if Stan Kroenke pays part of the money to keep them from moving to LA.

If they were loyal to their fans, why would they move?

 

[enanogrande]

I can accept tax breaks for teams to build their own stadiums, but municipalities actually sharing in the costs of the stadiums has always been absurd. If they're gonna put up any part of the money, they should share in the profits in the same percentage as they put in.

Spoiler

And don't tell me that then they would also have to share in the expense of the upkeep, SINCE A LOT OF THEM ALREADY DO!

 

[Beelzebufo]

Soccer

FIFA still operates in America

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

The Bucks currently have an interesting future and are not a "garbage" team. I believe he is wrong on there situation also, the owners aren't threatening to move the team, if they don't build a new stadium I believe the nba gets to vote to sell the team, which would almost certainly happen Seattle wants an nba team back badly.

That being said I enjoy Bradley Center and see no real need to build a new one.

I guess garbage was harsh, but looking back at their record for the past 20 years, nothing to me sticks out to warrant a new stadium.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

Poor Cincinnati... no one ever remembers their, uh, famous chili? Still a cooler city than Cleveland.

Whenever I think of Cincy, I think of WKRP. Is there more to the city?

 

[sangreal]

If they were loyal to their fans, why would they move?

Exactly. Loyalty aside, it's not like they pick cities at random. Leagues aren't interested in giving up successful cities. It's an empty threat to blackmail governments into subsidizing billionaires

Teams do move, but those that do have other reasons

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Same thing for college sports. Part of your tuition supports a billion dollar industry. That fucks over student athletes.

 

[Piecake]

Fuck this thing. That fraud Wilf (literally, look at his legal records) took the state for a ride something fierce on this one. The only positive is that at least it's prettier to look at than the Metrodome was.

Is that Wells Fargo office/apartment complex still going forward? If so, I guess that is something that will help revitalize that neighborhood. A good looking stadium, a park, and nice office space/apartments, that is a lot better than a shit ton of parking lots.

But yea, it is not going to be worth it. But, like you said, seeing that instead of the metrodome will be nice. God, that was an ugly pile of shit.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Same thing for college sports. Part of your tuition supports a billion dollar industry. That fucks over student athletes.

Yup, he did a piece in that as well. At least that doesn't result in hospitals getting shut down though.

 

[The Technomancer]

Is that Wells Fargo office/apartment complex still going forward? If so, I guess that is something that will help revitalize that neighborhood. A good looking stadium, a park, and nice office space/apartments, that is a lot better than a shit ton of parking lots.

But yea, it is not going to be worth it. But, like you said, seeing that instead of the metrodome will be nice. God, that was an ugly pile of shit.

There's at least two big buildings going up, I walked right past it on Saturday. We'll see if it succeeds at expanding the downtown activity out that far, but I'm skeptical.

The Metrodome was like a beached blimp

 

[HighResTomato]

Is this similar to West Ham getting a new stadium from the government on the cheap?

 

[SpiralZilla]

As someone who adores sports as a whole and the NFL/NBA specifically, I think its despicable that tax payers have to pay for the stadiums of billionaires to be built. The people of Milwaukee should not have the threat of the Bucks skipping town dangled over their heads, especially considering they just had to shell out money for other stadiums to be built.

As long as the sports owners are making money on these stadiums, and charging the tax payers to attend games, they should have to fund it privately. We need a federal law that states just that. So many owners use the leverage of moving the team to shake tax payers for ever more money. It's incredibly unfair but it will continue as long as it's legal to do so.

I'm glad that I live in California. If you want a new stadium, you've got to fund it yourself.

I just watched the episode and that really is appalling. Even making bankrupt cities pay for (sometimes blatantly unnecessary) things that the billionare owners can afford is the definition of corrupt.

One part that got to me was the hockey fan angrily calling out the mayor as "childish" and "disrespectful" for not wanting the city to pay for a hockey rink (read: big slab of ice) in the middle of a desert. *Sssiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

 

[soco]

someone should calculate some estimate of how much residents of a city actually pay to have the sports teams. It's basically a corporate tax on the whole city that serves more to inconvenience.

 

[José Mourinho]

Is this similar to West Ham getting a new stadium from the government on the cheap?

That stadium was built for the Olympics, the tax payers money has already been spent. It makes no sense to let it rot, so the government might as well give it over to West Ham on the cheap and let them get decades of use out of it. It would be more bothersome if it lay there empty.

 

[jjasper]

I can't really get too upset since we did it and it revitalized our downtown, increased tourism, gave the city a great place for concerts, gave the local college team a new place to play, and brought local businesses a lot of money. Problem will be in 15-20 years when they ask for a new one and threaten to leave if it isn't done.

 

[GK86]

If they were loyal to their fans, why would they move?

I mean, they are loyal, but they can put a price on loyalty.

 

[kess]

Make stadiums more multi-use.

Montreal's Jarry Park was converted into a nice tennis stadium, a nice reuse of the property.

Sort of the anti Olympic Stadium

 

[GaimeGuy]

Funding sport stadiums is just as worthless to society as funding NPR and other art programs. People want the government to spend money on stuff they find entertaining. I am sure somebody has a rationalization on why it is different.

I am 100% in favor of the government funding entertainment. But if the public is funding it, they should also get a piece of the pie.

How often do you hear about a wealthy billionaire dangling a stadium deal over an entire city/state's head threatening to pack up and move elsewhere if they don't get their way? Every single major sports league in this country requires teams to be privately held (the exception is the Green Bay Packers due to a grandfather clause). The public spends billions on stadiums and infrastructure supporting it, the owners lease for peanuts and come up with new ways to nickel and dime fans (for instance, charging a "license fee" for seats, which is basically a bullshit way of saying you have to pay them 10K just for the right to purchase season tickets. And then they shut up for a while, until 10-15 years later where they start demanding the whole damn thing be taken down and replaced with a new billion dollar stadium so they have an excuse for a rate hike.

Meanwhile the public gets no ownership stake in the team they're investing billions into.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I can't really get too upset since we did it and it revitalized our downtown, increased tourism, gave the city a great place for concerts, gave the local college team a new place to play, and brought local businesses a lot of money. Problem will be in 15-20 years when they ask for a new one and threaten to leave if it isn't done.

What city/sport is that? It sounds like that's the minority of cases.

 

[Sanjay]

That stadium was built for the Olympics, the tax payers money has already been spent. It makes no sense to let it rot, so the government might as well give it over to West Ham on the cheap and let them get decades of use out of it. It would be more bothersome if it lay there empty.

West Ham are paying 2mil a year rent too and to guarantee the 99-year lease, West Ham also had to agree to pay a proportion of any future sale of the club back to the LLDC.

And the club will share catering and hospitality revenue with LLDC but it is understood West Ham will take all ticket and merchandising income.

The LLDC points to the 10 annual community sports events the Olympic Stadium will host, a new floodlit community running track, a training and education centre and the 100,000 free West Ham tickets that Newham residents will be given each season.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33214058

But yeah West Ham still got a great deal though, it really pays to be in London unless your Spurs, lol.

 

[legend166]

Question: are there subsidized stadiums in other countries, like the UK?

In Australia, most of the major stadiums are owned and managed by the respective state governments (or in the case of smaller, suburban stadiums, local councils).

The difference is most of the major sporting teams are not privately owned. Out of the two major football codes (Rugby League and Australian Football), I think there's about 3-4 privately owned Rugby League clubs out of a combined 34 clubs. Compared to the NFL which I think only the Packers are not privately owned.

So generally, sport in Australia isn't generally seen as a money making enterprise/ego stroking for billionaires like it is in the US and Europe (although don't get me wrong, there's plenty of people making plenty of money out of it, but moreso administrators). So from that perspective, I think the public is more open to using public funds to upgrade/build stadiums, as there's more of a sense of public ownership of the teams. And at most grounds the team has to pay a lease to play there in the first place. It's very uncommon for a team to be given a clean stadium and be allowed to take all the revenue without paying anything.

I'm hoping we stay that way and steer clear of private ownership. I know it was tried in the AFL about 20 years ago and it nearly killed my club.

 

[GaimeGuy]

To be fair, wasn't the old stadium like 40 years old? And the dome was some weird tarp like structure? I'm sure they took into account snow and ice loads in the design and engineering.

31 years.

It had a fiberglass roof that was air-supported.

 

[Weevilone]

STL is building a brand new stadium for the amazingly talented St. Louis Rams

I don't really understand the STL situation. Everyone I know here is like, meh.. let them go to LA. The bonkers thing is that the old building is less than 20 years old, though it wasn't too nice when it opened.

 

[outunderthestars]

Really do not seem comparable. Banks money just help shareholders.

Stadium is something the comminty uses. Its also use for other local events. It improves quality of life for local residents.

Every single aspect of this statement is straight up bullshit. Banks pro ide a service to the community, seeding hundreds of businesses in every community ity.

Stadiums owners charge the community to use the facilities!ity, and more often than not at full market rate. Whatever meager tax revenue that localbars and restaurants bring in is more than offset by the costs of police, fire, and emt services the event requires.


I don't which is more enjoyable: sports or watching sports fans attempt to bend logic to support their asinine assertions in the face overwhelming research. They are the Creationists of modern economics.

 

[jjasper]

What city/sport is that? It sounds like that's the minority of cases.

Memphis/NBA

 

[RDreamer]

I'm in Milwaukee and I want the Bucks to stay. I think it would be a pretty big loss, and I see how well the stadium did for the Brewers in helping the city. I don't mind ponying up a bit of public funding.

That said, I'm fucking pissed that apparently the entire plot of goddamned land and anything and everything they build on it are going to be tax exempt into the future. All parking lots, other businesses, residential, etc. They're planning on putting a ton of things in that spot. I think that's fucking horse shit. You can't sit there and tell me that'll really help the city that much if it's all tax exempt. How the fuck are other entertainment facilities around the city even supposed to humor competing with whatever the fuck they want to put there?

I also read that there were kind of a lot of oddities that fuck over the actual city of Milwaukee. The deal as written bends over backwards to help the state, but gives the city almost nothing in the way of say or security.

 

[leakey]

Same thing for college sports. Part of your tuition supports a billion dollar industry. That fucks over student athletes.

Yup. That was a good episode as well!

 

[numble]

In Australia, most of the major stadiums are owned and managed by the respective state governments (or in the case of smaller, suburban stadiums, local councils).

The difference is most of the major sporting teams are not privately owned. Out of the two major football codes (Rugby League and Australian Football), I think there's about 3-4 privately owned Rugby League clubs out of a combined 34 clubs. Compared to the NFL which I think only the Packers are not privately owned.

So generally, sport in Australia isn't generally seen as a money making enterprise/ego stroking for billionaires like it is in the US and Europe (although don't get me wrong, there's plenty of people making plenty of money out of it, but moreso administrators). So from that perspective, I think the public is more open to using public funds to upgrade/build stadiums, as there's more of a sense of public ownership of the teams. And at most grounds the team has to pay a lease to play there in the first place. It's very uncommon for a team to be given a clean stadium and be allowed to take all the revenue without paying anything.

I'm hoping we stay that way and steer clear of private ownership. I know it was tried in the AFL about 20 years ago and it nearly killed my club.

Publicly owned in this context is state-owned, not a publicly listed company.