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John Stossel destroys Anti Violent Video Game Argument

prag16 said:
Geez. Some of you guys need to broaden your horizons. Jon Stewart and Bill Maher aren't the last word on everything.
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I've been familiar with who Stossel is since the mid-'80s, Stewart is a comedian, Maher isn't the last word on anything, no one mentioned them to begin with, my horizons are sufficiently broadened.
 
The sad thing is that it's so obvious they don't want to hear the facts. The guy just kept ranting and eventually brought up the need for more studies. But you know once those studies come out they still won't shut up. That's the way it goes.
 
To be fair, and attempt to be unbiased; the article linked by the OP isn't a sufficient argument in defense for violent video games not being taxed. He seems to use ad hominem to distort the character of the one he is trying to prove wrong (making the debate about the author of the argument, rather than the argument itself) and ultimately, his big argument seems to be that comic books had the same criticism 60 years ago, and that Japan has a much less crime rate, though, he doesn't provide us with anything to support such an idea isn't linked to something else culturally, and finally, similarity doesn't equal relation, so the argument isn't truth preserving.

My opinion. Violent video games already have parental guidelines, and if a parents deems it right that their child can put such a thing into their mind, maybe even shaping their conscience, then the debate is about parenting, not the video game industry.
 
So many Stossel haters makes me sad. He was definitely on point with his argument and I have no doubt if it was a longer segment he would have continued to dismantle his guest's assertions.
 
Jive Turkey said:
I know. I feel dirty.

I also love Graham Jr.'s repeated "we need to have a study done!" ignoring the countless studies that have been done which negate his position.
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But this is how people like him "win" arguments in his mind. If you keep tossing money at studies, eventually you'll land on a single study that backs your point (or twists the wordings enough to prove it).

In fact, we already have that in the realm of video game studies with the "Violent games will make you more aggressive in the short term." Instead of long term studies that prove violent games make people more violent, they will turn to 1 day to 1 week studies where they can prove that someone is more likely to insult or snap at someone (note, they have never proved VIOLENCE in any of these studies, only more aggressive actions... a very far cry from the claims of violent games turning people into killers).
 
Jive Turkey said:
I know. I feel dirty.

I also love Graham Jr.'s repeated "we need to have a study done!" ignoring the countless studies that have been done which negate his position.
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"I agree, we need to have evidence first! But the government needs to do something about these video games!"

Graham just comes across as a crazy person.
 
Castleman said:
To be fair, and attempt to be unbiased; the article linked by the OP isn't a sufficient argument in defense for violent video games not being taxed. He seems to use ad hominem to distort the character of the one he is trying to prove wrong (making the debate about the author of the argument, rather than the argument itself) and ultimately, his big argument seems to be that comic books had the same criticism 60 years ago, and that Japan has a much less crime rate, though, he doesn't provide us with anything to support such an idea isn't linked to something else culturally, and finally, similarity doesn't equal relation, so the argument isn't truth preserving.

My opinion. Violent video games already have parental guidelines, and if a parents deems it right that their child can put such a thing into their mind, maybe even shaping their conscience, then the debate is about parenting, not the video game industry.
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Intentionally ignoring the fact that he linked statistics to the fact that video game usage (and indeed violent video game usage) is up, while overall violent acts (assaults, rapes, and murders) are WAY down over the last 20 years when games have come into their own.
 
KojiKnight said:
So... because they don't agree with someone normally they are instantly close minded? (which is what you imply with your broaden your horizons comment)
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Meh, I'll retract the part of my comment that a could be taken as an insult. Not looking to start a political fight. I avoid the OT side like the plague for this exact reason.

Sometimes I forget that the full breadth of the political spectrum is not very well represented on this site.

But hey, something we can pretty much ALL agree on... Graham is and always has been an absolute dolt.

Oblivion said:
Stossel worked for CBS news in the 80s and early 90s and did some surprisingly good reporting on video games. Nowadays however, he's a contributor at Fox News and spends most of his time arguing against things like the government helping disaster victims.
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Ill informed posts like this make keeping my mouth shut tough. But again, this is why I avoid the OT side.
 
I bet jesus used to watch beheadings for entertainment, after all there wasn't any other form of entertainment back then apart from telling stories, and theres only so many stories in the bible , he was bound to have a few nights off

Probably in his 20's
 
ilnadmy said:
That was pretty good. No idea who Stossel is but he makes good points.
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Stossel worked for CBS news in the 80s and early 90s and did some surprisingly good reporting on video games. Nowadays however, he's a contributor at Fox News and spends most of his time arguing against things like the government helping disaster victims.
 
I didn't know Jesus was nailed to a tree?

So that's why we have Pine Trees for Christmas

Well that solves another problem!
 
Plinko said:
Doesn't Japan have lower violence because their gun laws are way more restrictive?
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Isn't it something like guns aren't even allowed in the country... like at all? I don't even think the Police carry guns there.
 
Jive Turkey said:
I know. I feel dirty.

I also love Graham Jr.'s repeated "we need to have a study done!" ignoring the countless studies that have been done which negate his position.
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This. Its not about finding out why people are violent, its about finding something to blame.
 
ZealousD said:
Isn't it something like guns aren't even allowed in the country... like at all? I don't even think the Police carry guns there.
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Correlation is not causation. How come overall violent crime rose in the UK after gun control was beefed up heavily?
 
I understand the guy was religious, but I don't appreciate the hate/mocking of religion and religious figures.

I definitely agree with the basic idea that the government should not be involved in regulating video games.
 
prag16 said:
Correlation is not causation. How come overall violent crime rose in the UK after gun control was beefed up heavily?
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That was explained over and over. In UK a harrassing tweet counts as violent crime. In USA it needs forced rape, not "just" rape to be count as violent crime.
 
Oersted said:
That was explained over and over. In UK a harrassing tweet counts as violent crime. In USA it needs forced rape, not "just" rape to be count as violent crime.
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No, that explains why the UK's rate seems too high to believe, but not why the rate rose after the gun ban.
 
Are you kidding me? With a clown like that arguing against him? I don't know who this Stossel is and i obviously don't want anyone to tax, let alone ban violent videogames, but if you're going to have a debate about it, put someone serious on, not some Christian fanatic parody.
 
Oersted said:
Good old causalation/ correlation fallacy. A real classic.
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If you're referring to the defense of violent games using that statistic, the argument doesn't apply. You can only say "causation isn't correlation" if someone said "Violent video games 100% are the reason why violent crime has gone down."

He briefly mentioned that it was a possibility, but he didn't focus on it because he didn't have any evidence and it wasn't the real argument. The argument was that there is a violence epidemic (which is blatantly false at best, and an outright LIE at worst) in the country, and that video games are the cause.

Because the first part of that argument is blatantly false as per actual evidence, the latter can't be true in the sense it was being used. Can violent games make people more violent? We don't have conclusive evidence either way, and because we don't have evidence you can't perform wide scale bans, or push taxes onto products to help fund something that could be entirely unrelated (victims of violent or deadly assaults, as was being suggested by Graham Jr)
 
KojiKnight said:
It undoubtedly plays a factor, but violent crimes in general are pretty low in Japan, and as noted (and I've said many times in these violent game debates) violent crimes, rape, and murder have only gone way down since the early 90's... not way up as so many of them would have you believe.
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I thought I read that somewhere that sexual crimes were generally higher in Japan? I don't have a source sitting in front of me so I could obviously be wrong but I could have swore I seen that somewhere.
 
graywolf323 said:
gun laws also don't always prevent it either, look at Chicago
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Well what good are state gun laws when one can simply go to another state and buy a gun? People can just hop on over to Indiana and legally purchase a weapon at a gun show. Gun laws need to be nation-wide to have any kind of effect.
 
I think its the gun laws in America that don't help with gun related violence at all. Just look at the stastistics for other contries with tough gun control. But its an argument that will go on forever lol.
 
As TV journos go, Stossel isn't bad, but Graham is like a living, breathing strawman. Roughly nobody besides the NRA is making the argument "Moar guns please! But videogames bad!"

Ugh...really stupid clip.
 
ponpo said:
And because they're busy playing good games like Sound Voltex and Gundam EXVSFB rather than Western Military Gunlord FPS MurderSim 23 ( ≖‿≖)
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Shit, Gunlord 23 is out already? I need to catch up. Is playing 22 essential to follow the story?
 
Most older people don't understand video games. So glad my parents were down. I still remember my dad coming home with an NES. He made us go to bed and played Mario all night.
 
cheststrongwell said:
Most older people don't understand video games. So glad my parents were down. I still remember my dad coming home with an NES. He made us go to bed and played Mario all night.
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Yeah, basically.

I remember playing Timesplitters: Future Perfect with my brother at the age of 22.

My father remarked in full seriousness that it was going to turn us into serial killers. Friggin' Timesplitters. *sigh*
 
One of the most consistent Libertarians out there. Love him or hate him, he's consistent. And, in this particular instance, on the right side.
 
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