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Jon Stewart is destroying Jim Cramer

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polyh3dron said:
It's like that Carly Simon song, "this song ain't about you".

You remember that part don't you?

I do remember that part, and later on Stewart said that it was unfortunate that Cramer was becoming the face of the thing. However, those were two small parts of a long interview, and a lot of coverage on the daily show leading up to the fact. Neither of those quotes will be pulled out and shown on CNN or anything like that. Good on Jon Stewart for making those points though.
 
I just watched this, and wow... brutal.

However, Cramer didn't look sincerely apologetic to me. He was constantly trying to shift the blame on others, when it's clear that he, CNBC, and media in general are either in bed with the Wall Street manipulators or allowed to be manipulated by them. And he knows that.

Cramer is at least a smart and honest guy though even though his intentions are not quite pure. Watch the full video from which Jon took few clips from: Cramer interview on Wall Street Confidential. The financial game is entirely different on the outside and on the inside, and media generally will never talk about this.
 
KO on the alleged coverup, from dkos:

Keith Olbermann said:
The assumption that we would automatically do a story on a story Jon Stewart did is not a good one.

There is no interaction between his show and mine, and while it's possible that we did some significant segments on any of his previous smackdowns or vivisections (as good as they might have been), I don't remember when that would've been. So it's either not happened, or it hasn't happened in a long time.

Also the premise of corporate no-touch orders to keep what happened "quiet" is silly. That horse (in fact, an entire stable-full) left that barn as soon as the video hit the internet. My understanding is Rachel's doing a little something on this.

There is also - and of course I know this from being on the other end - the element of competitive gamesmanship about this. If there had been anybody of Cramer's heft on Fox Business, subjected to Stewart's hammering, I don't know that ABC, CBS and Fox would've been quite so interested in covering it. Conversely, I recall Stewart doing a lot of hammering of Foxies and it's not like I've turned all of those into 10-minute segments on this show.

"If you're going through hell - keep going!" -- Winston Churchill

by Keith Olbermann
 
Cloudy said:
Keith is full of crap. Why doesn't he explain why the story just went dark on all NBC networks?

Maddow did a segment on it. And unless she faces some kind of punishment I think the idea of a gag order is pretty much debunked.
 
Keith Olbermann said:
There is also - and of course I know this from being on the other end - the element of competitive gamesmanship about this. If there had been anybody of Cramer's heft on Fox Business, subjected to Stewart's hammering, I don't know that ABC, CBS and Fox would've been quite so interested in covering it. Conversely, I recall Stewart doing a lot of hammering of Foxies and it's not like I've turned all of those into 10-minute segments on this show.
A personality "of Cramer's heft" on Fox wouldn't be news, it would be business as usual. That kind of shit would be par for the course there.

And again, it's not about Cramer, it's about the whole fucking channel and how they blamed the "losers" for falling behind on their mortgages and how they recommended to be bullish with Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros just days before they went to shit.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Maddow did a segment on it. And unless she faces some kind of punishment I think the idea of a gag order is pretty much debunked.

They probably just did that at the end of the day to cover their asses. Compare the buildup coverage yesterday on all their programming (including regular news coverage) to one mention today..
 
I hope they yank Cramer's loud, annoying ass off the air. It has been a glorious sight, seeing CNBC's daily circle jerk implode as reality defied their bullshit claims and predictions over the past couple years.
 
Cloudy said:
They probably just did that at the end of the day to cover their asses. Compare the buildup coverage yesterday on all their programming (including regular news coverage) to one mention today..

Oh c'mon, that's a little ridiculous.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Are we really arguing that no one had any reservations about over leveraging or giving mortgages without asking how much money they made? Really?

Hey, when housing prices keep going up, it doesn't matter what happens to the mortgage.

Average housing prices never went down in modern US history, safest best ever.
 
Huzah said:
Hey, when housing prices keep going up, it doesn't matter what happens to the mortgage.

Average housing prices never went down in modern US history, safest best ever.

And yet I know for a fact people objected to the way things were being done. To say no one foresaw any problems and everyone was a-ok with the whole things is false. Perhaps the people with the power to change things or voice their concerns with an audience kept their mouths shut, but that doesn't mean they didn't question it personally either.
 
KHarvey16 said:
And yet I know for a fact people objected to the way things were being done. To say no one foresaw any problems and everyone was a-ok with the whole things is false. Perhaps the people with the power to change things or voice their concerns with an audience kept their mouths shut, but that doesn't mean they didn't question it personally either.

Do you remember the threads when people were saying that the US was in a recession and then they were shouted down by the optimists?

One of the big excuses that CNBC and their viewers would use is that you can't say the US is in a recession until after the fact. I'm not playing a baseball game until the nine innings are over. :lol
 
I just watched some of it on Hulu. Holy fuck he got owned. :lol

That's sad when a sort of joke news show actually does more journalistic shit than real news companies.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Maddow did a segment on it. And unless she faces some kind of punishment I think the idea of a gag order is pretty much debunked.

I agree.

I doubt there was an explicit gag order. There wouldn't need to be. Most television journalists are hacks and know not to offend their corporate masters without needing to receive a direct order. No matter how much I agree with Keith Olbermann's politics, I fail to see why anyone would think him any different in that regard.
 
Although it is partly Cramer's fault for being such a pussy, the main weakness with the interview is that it was just Stewart ranting for 20 min with Cramer getting in the occasional "I'm sorry" and "I should've done better." He didn't let Cramer tell his side of the story.
 
Synth_floyd said:
Although it is partly Cramer's fault for being such a pussy, the main weakness with the interview is that it was just Stewart ranting for 20 min with Cramer getting in the occasional "I'm sorry" and "I should've done better." He didn't let Cramer tell his side of the story.


Bullshit, yes he did!
 
Y2Kev said:
100%. I thought Jon would have him on and be like, "tee hee, you suck at numbas, thanks for coming on you big goof," but he's getting Crossfired. He's basically connecting Cramer in the meltdown.


Really? Can you hear ok? Because that's totally not what Stewart is doing. That's what other people are doing looking for a scapegoat and why Cramer's been targeted like this. Cramer keeps referring back to himself and personalizing the whole market meltdown and Stewart keeps calling him out and telling him it's not about him.

Stewart's calling him out on being 'in' on the shady trading practices that have brought us into this mess and then him turning around and acting all doughy eyed about it when shit hits the fan. He's showing how two faced he is and how, for lack of a better defining word, corrupted the CNBC media outlet is in this regard.

All while making fun of his retarded antics on his tv show.


Synth_floyd said:
Although it is partly Cramer's fault for being such a pussy, the main weakness with the interview is that it was just Stewart ranting for 20 min with Cramer getting in the occasional "I'm sorry" and "I should've done better." He didn't let Cramer tell his side of the story.


Not at all, not at all. You're acting like Stewart was O'reilly, talking over him and not letting Cramer speak.

I love Jon Stewart because he actually gives who he's talking to a chance to retaliate and have an intelligent conversation. Just because Cramer wasn't able to properly defend himself without squeeling doesn't mean that Jon didn't give him a chance for his own side of the story.
 
Synth_floyd said:
Although it is partly Cramer's fault for being such a pussy, the main weakness with the interview is that it was just Stewart ranting for 20 min with Cramer getting in the occasional "I'm sorry" and "I should've done better." He didn't let Cramer tell his side of the story.
Well, yes and no. The unfortunate thing for Cramer is that he showed up for the wrong discussion. In all honesty, I think all Cramer was really there for was to argue that Jon was unfairly shining a light on him and try to argue his case that he's overall a competent stock picker, and who wasn't in bed with Wall Street. That was never really Jon's point, but Cramer ended up showing up as the surrogate for everything Jon was ranting at.

So, yes, I'll agree that Jon cut him off several times and didn't give him much of a chance, but I'd also argue that it was in part because what he was saying was of no interest to anyone except people who wanted to see Cramer clear his name. So, yes, we could have gotten an extended extended edition of Jon not being as quick to interrupt back to his point he wanted to make before Cramer agreed to appear on the show, but it wouldn't have helped anything. Cramer wasn't prepared for the conversation Jon wanted to have.
 
Well, I WAS on the fence with this one. Cramer has an impossible job. In an up market, sure he's going to look awesome and make great calls despite himself. But in this market, there's no way he can't escape without looking like a complete idiot. But a lot of people in the US - and around the world - bought into fantasy land. As Roubini said, "we're all Madoffs." Lots of people had blinders on, happily borrowing to maintain their lifestyle. It worked for a lot of years. Until it didn't. Like a Ponzi scheme, when the music stops it comes crashing down in a hurry. Then you have the quickest market decline since the Great Depression.

While Cramer has an impossible job, Stewart has a very easy one. He can sit on the sidelines and play Monday morning QB. I'm not saying that he's wrong to highlight the problems at CNBC/Cramer (I think he's spot on, bravo), but he's in a very luxurious position. He can wait things out and assign blame. He's not in the war, so to speak. Decisions are made with the best available information at the time, by people with different motivations. Decisions that were well intentioned at the time (say a young couple hoping to get their first house, or even the hedge fund manager who levered up 10-1 as stocks skyrocketed), look very stupid now. Stewart can sit back, wait for the fallout, and pounce.

So, I WAS on the fence. UNTIL I SAW CRAMER'S SHOW TODAY. HOLY SHIT. What a complete and utter asshole. Not only did he pretend the John Stewart interview never took place, he LAUGHED at it and MOCKED it. All the good that could have come from the interview evaporated about 10 seconds into the show. What a dipshit.
 
Synth_floyd said:
Although it is partly Cramer's fault for being such a pussy, the main weakness with the interview is that it was just Stewart ranting for 20 min with Cramer getting in the occasional "I'm sorry" and "I should've done better." He didn't let Cramer tell his side of the story.
Full transcript seems to indicate that Cramer got plenty of time in, and that's certainly what I recall from watching the interview. Whether he used that time effectively is not Stewart's fault.

What part of "his side of the story" did Cramer not get to explain exactly? And, you know, he does have his own show, where he could have explained his side better if he wanted to, uninterrupted. As we know though, he opted not to really even acknowledge the interview today...
 
rpmurphy said:
I just watched this, and wow... brutal.

However, Cramer didn't look sincerely apologetic to me. He was constantly trying to shift the blame on others, when it's clear that he, CNBC, and media in general are either in bed with the Wall Street manipulators or allowed to be manipulated by them. And he knows that.

Idk... I think it was pretty apparent that Jon Stewart was trying to generalize the blame. IIRC in pt.2 of the interview, Jon outright says that.

edit: then at 6:00 in pt. 3 he reiterates
 
derder said:
Idk... I think it was pretty apparent that Jon Stewart was trying to generalize the blame. IIRC in pt.2 of the interview, Jon outright says that.

edit: then at 6:00 in pt. 3 he reiterates
He does, and in the cut footage he even says that it is unfortunate that Kramer has been made the face of the problem. Kramer actually keeps trying to shift the focus of the conversation to himself and Jon corrects him and then he generalizes.
 
CNN's Reliable Sources was going over this stuff this morning.

Tucker Carlson was the only one really saying anything against Stewart. The other two-- media critics themselves-- were on Jons dick like none other, haha. Carlson was all pissy about it though, saying Stewart is just a partisan hack and a mouthpiece for the administration. It was then pointed out that Carlson ran "the right-wing side" of Crossfire, so for him to call anyone else partisan is ridiculous. Carlson went on some rant going "No, but I'm an idealogue, I'll pronounce my ideas which are conservative, but I don't support a party. Stewart is just supporting the Democratic Party. None of this happened until Cramer went after Obama."

Pretty funny how Carlson was just dismissed out of hand by everyone else on the show :lol I'm sure clips will be up later today.
 
whytemyke said:
CNN's Reliable Sources was going over this stuff this morning.

Tucker Carlson was the only one really saying anything against Stewart. The other two-- media critics themselves-- were on Jons dick like none other, haha. Carlson was all pissy about it though, saying Stewart is just a partisan hack and a mouthpiece for the administration. It was then pointed out that Carlson ran "the right-wing side" of Crossfire, so for him to call anyone else partisan is ridiculous. Carlson went on some rant going "No, but I'm an idealogue, I'll pronounce my ideas which are conservative, but I don't support a party. Stewart is just supporting the Democratic Party. None of this happened until Cramer went after Obama."

Pretty funny how Carlson was just dismissed out of hand by everyone else on the show :lol I'm sure clips will be up later today.
Kind of like how Carlson was just dismissing Stewart's point of view as partisan hackery rather than actually responding to his arguments? In all honesty, Tucker is probably the most biased man CNN could possibly find to discuss this issue, since the whole scene was practically a replay of what Stewart did to him in '04.
 
whytemyke said:
CNN's Reliable Sources was going over this stuff this morning.

Tucker Carlson was the only one really saying anything against Stewart. The other two-- media critics themselves-- were on Jons dick like none other, haha. Carlson was all pissy about it though, saying Stewart is just a partisan hack and a mouthpiece for the administration. It was then pointed out that Carlson ran "the right-wing side" of Crossfire, so for him to call anyone else partisan is ridiculous. Carlson went on some rant going "No, but I'm an idealogue, I'll pronounce my ideas which are conservative, but I don't support a party. Stewart is just supporting the Democratic Party. None of this happened until Cramer went after Obama."

Pretty funny how Carlson was just dismissed out of hand by everyone else on the show :lol I'm sure clips will be up later today.

Actually, to correct Carlson, "it" started when Rick Santelli went after prospective home owners for taking out mortgages, something Stewart has repeated 2 or 3 times now.
 
Seriously, did anyone watch Friday's Mad Money? Wow... Cramer is such a douche. I've read a couple blogs that say CNBC is considering terminating the program but it's all speculation.
 
Macam said:
Actually, to correct Carlson, "it" started when Rick Santelli went after prospective home owners for taking out mortgages, something Stewart has repeated 2 or 3 times now.

Yeah, I mean Cramer has been talking shit about Obama's economic plans for months now. It's not like he just started. Tucker's just using another bit of his hackery.
 
RSTEIN said:
Seriously, did anyone watch Friday's Mad Money? Wow... Cramer is such a douche. I've read a couple blogs that say CNBC is considering terminating the program but it's all speculation.

Well, the important thing is to start spreading the rumor that CNBC is considering terminating the program, which is very easy to do because the people who write about CNBC want that story and you can claim its credible because you've heard of, and may watch, CNBC.
 
Macam said:
Well, the important thing is to start spreading the rumor that CNBC is considering terminating the program, which is very easy to do because the people who write about CNBC want that story and you can claim its credible because you've heard of, and may watch, CNBC.
:lol
 
cable news networks have become platforms of political pandering and letting CEOs appear without any truth filters.

there is no more "news" reporting
the kind of reporting there is now is just about sticking a mic under a talking head and let them talk without questioning them or questing for truth.

MSM news suck,

Crossfire was like a baseball game, you pick your side and your root for that side but it not news worthy: 100% partisan pandering
 
Macam said:
Well, the important thing is to start spreading the rumor that CNBC is considering terminating the program, which is very easy to do because the people who write about CNBC want that story and you can claim its credible because you've heard of, and may watch, CNBC.

Brilliant.
 
Macam said:
Well, the important thing is to start spreading the rumor that CNBC is considering terminating the program, which is very easy to do because the people who write about CNBC want that story and you can claim its credible because you've heard of, and may watch, CNBC.

Bravo.
 
I actually thought Cramer did exactly what he needed to on Friday's Mad Money.

I thought most of the criticisms Stewart had of CNBC ultimately don't apply to Cramer.

Whenever Cramer's on during the hours the market is open, he will point out the bullshit said during interviews that everyone else won't comment on. He'll also point out what he thinks was right about what was said. On his own show, he'll bring CEOs on to talk, and has been burned himself by their lies. Ultimately, some lies said by companies simply can't be identified because a company is no where near as transparent as a government, and never can be. He thinks all of CNBC needs to work on better unearthing the lies CEOs make. He has in the past voiced his criticism of this on his own. So what else can he say on Stewart's show other than to say he didn't do it well enough and will do more?

The other criticism, that he is trying to hurt his viewers through some scheme he has with the CEOs, also seems unlikely. Yes, he worked for a hedge fund and 'worked for the devil' if you really believe in this 'good' and 'evil' in the market stuff. If there was some massive conspiracy, he wouldn't voice his opinions on issues like the uptick rule and mark-to-market accounting (but you try explaining those to Stewart's audience in the time and pressure Cramer had). In the video clips Stewart had, he was being his brutally honest self, who speaks regardless of any moral high ground. On his show, he'll speak of the benefits of investments in tobacco companies, loan sharks, and others. Before the recession (and sometimes now still), He was more interested in finding a way for you to benefit from the failure of the government than to fix the government. Their activities aren't illegal (or can't be proven illegal easily). This is what those suggestions to hedge fund managers in those clips were. Those actions he explained within the videos (that he said he'd never mention on tv), he has spoken openly about since the recession started, describing the problems they cause. What else do you want him to do now?

He even addressed the hedge fund issue during the opening of the show, saying hedge fund managers can benefit from the current conditions. He also made clear through sarcasm that people take the evil hedge fund idea too far. They're doing what everyone ought to do; maximize earnings relative to risk under the current 'rules' of the 'game'. Blame the world governments if you don't like the current 'game', they set the rules. Don't blame the hedge fund. The market is a 'game', whether Stewart or anyone else likes it or not. Its a vicious one, and if you can't handle it or don't know how to play it, you should get out. You're automatically admitting defeat that way, but minimizing your loss.

Criticizing him for his buttons and his over-the-top energy though is just dumb, and Cramer made this clear on friday. He's ultimately an entertainer who hopes to educate you on the market, not construct your portfolio for you. He makes it clear at the beginning of every show that his goal is to educate, and makes it clear with his picks that you need to do your own research. He's as much an entertainer as Stewart. It figures that both shows will have viewers that take their respective host's opinions too seriously. Some do take the opinions as more than a hunch on a stock, or a joke on a political figure. There's the other 17 or so hours of CNBC programming for the people who want a serious show on the markets.

Personally, I've never seen CNBC as out to protect my country, or my job, or even my dollar. They're there to be the soap box for whoever has an opinion on the market. I wouldn't mind a bit more commentary and discussion on those opinions, but overall, I like CNBC the way it is.
 
The main reason Cramer got slaughtered out there is the same reason he almost came across as sympathetic. The man completely just did not understand the context of the discussion. Stewart is out there trying to have a sober debate about how financial journalism needs to go beyond "picking stocks" and Cramer is sitting there trying to defends his stock picks. It was completely surreal and almost embarassing to watch.

The very similar things it reminded me of are 1, obviously, the Crossfire appearance, as Carlson was either unwilling or unable to digest the point about how canned spin just fits into politicians plans and having two people regurgitate it back and forth doesn't accomplish anything. So he reflexively tried to take on Stewart like it was a battle, just like Cramer reflexively said things like "I can't pick 'em all" or "sometimes I suggest gold!"

The other was a fairly recent CNBC interview with Roubini where he was talking about severe overhauls needed over our financial systems and was met with a bunch of talking heads who cou;dn't get beyond "That's interesting....what stocks would you recommend to take advantage of the situations." It's just completely pathological with the whole network.

I am glad Stewart got to make the point to such a wide audience. It's just unbelievable how narrow the human brain can become when in specializes in the same thing for too long. Ultimately, I don't know whether to feel outrage or pity towards the CNBC bobbleheads....probably both.
 
oh ffs you retards you don't blame Cramer for this. its as stupid as blaming David Li for creating the Gaussian copula model that started all this shit in the first place.
 
Crossfire was like a baseball game, you pick your side and your root for that side but it not news worthy: 100% partisan pandering

It was damn entertaining though (Begala especially). Unlike the garbage shows we have now that do the SAME shit just without a live audience :lol
 
Crossfire was CNN telling everyone: You're either D or R.

Pathetic for a news network.
 
Ether_Snake said:
Crossfire was CNN telling everyone: You're either D or R.

Pathetic for a news network.

Well Fox News tells their audience that Dems are all wrong/corrupt/incompetent etc. with no credible rebuttal.

Sorry but I prefer the Crossfire model. At least the viewer got to decide the truth after both sides got equal time. Hell, the guys would even admit when their side was wrong sometimes..
 
Cloudy said:
Well Fox News tells their audience that Dems are all wrong/corrupt/incompetent etc. with no credible rebuttal.

Sorry but I prefer the Crossfire model. At least the viewer got to decide the truth after both sides got equal time. Hell, the guys would even admit when their side was wrong sometimes..
You are assuming "the truth" was either the Liberal or Conservative version. It was usually neither. And Crossfire was really only good when it was Michael Kinsley vs. Pat Buchannon.
 
adamsappel said:
You are assuming "the truth" was either the Liberal or Conservative version. It was usually neither. And Crossfire was really only good when it was Michael Kinsley vs. Pat Buchannon.

Exactly. There may be two parties in American politics, but there are hardly two "sides" to important political and social issues. On the most important of these, the parties don't disagree, so the "debate" between the two "sides" tends to obscure more than enlighten. You will never, for example, see a debate between the parties on whether health care ought to be treated like a commodity or right of citizenship. This is an effective means to confine and narrow "legitimate" or "acceptable" discourse.
 
Also the views presented in Crossfire weren't even honest useful discussions of policy or approach it was just talking points and spin created by each parties media relations managers.
 
gutter_trash said:
Crossfire was like a baseball game, you pick your side and your root for that side but it not news worthy: 100% partisan pandering
Crossfire wasn't a news show, it was a partisan debate show. Partisan positions are 100% legitimate to air.
 
APF said:
Crossfire wasn't a news show, it was a partisan debate show. Partisan positions are 100% legitimate to air.

Sure, but it's also clear that most issues are not handled perfectly correctly or completely wrong by one party or the other. Crossfire basically denies the potential for compromise as it showcases hacks on each side yelling at each other and taking potshots to spin the other side to be ignorant/selfish/stupid, etc.. The "experts" on the show never listened to each other or were open to any ideas not chosen by their parties.

It seems to me that anyone that really believes one part is always right and the other party is always wrong is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
 
Your argument is against being a partisan or ideologue, not against the legitimacy of airing their beliefs--beliefs which, it must be said, are at the forefront of our political system and therefore are completely valid to pit against each other.
 
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