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[VariantX]

The NFL created the demand, and then gave it exclusively to EA. There was already monstrous demand for the NFL when multiple people had the license. In fact, it can be argued that in the long run exclusivity is doing more to HURT the NFL's video game brand than help it.

Im wondering are the yearly sales of Madden/NCAA are declining since EA has had total control over the licenses? I only bring this up because alot of complaints i hear about EA's games are the fact that outside of a few tweaks, its basically a $60 roster update every year.

 

[Lkr]

iirc 2K5 outsold Madden on Xbox that year.

were the EA Sports titles using XBL yet? If not, I can see that as a reason why.

Regardless, doesn't this mean that AT&T has a Monopoly on the iPhone? I am FORCED to buy an iPhone if I want a phone made by Apple, and must use AT&T to do it! Why don't they get sued? This is why this whole lawsuit is stupid, because it has no basis. If a private entity wants to sell the rights to make products for their company, then they have the right to do so. For some reason, I don't think anyone would ever had made a big deal about any of this if it had been 2k that bought the rights from the NFL. But hey, in the end, 2k got the baseball license, and has done a shitty job with that and now MVP Baseball ceases to exist, which was miles better. I'd also like to point out that, clearly, the average joe does not care that EA has a "monopoly" on football games, as Madden and NCAA sell just as good as they always have

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

C'mon Scooter, Lingerie football league?

We have to consider the idea of competition. To wit: This August EA Releases Madden '12 and the competition releases your lingerie game or even a UFL game. How likely are consumers to pick up the Lingerie game in lieu of Madden? It's as much competition as me selling lemonade on the corner is competition to Madden.

That's the complaint. Gamers want the NFL, the NCAA, and that's it. Nothing else can be considered competition. The UFL isn't competition. All Pro 2K8 or whatever wasn't competition. EA has effectively monopolized the football market: Anything not officially licensed by either authority is doomed to failure, and EA has control of both. That's a Monopoly. The fact the the NFL handed them said monopoly will make no difference.

EA has the FIFA license. Should we take that away from them too since FIFA started kicking the shit out of Pro Evo in sales?

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

For reference for those who are interested:

July 2004 NPD

ESPN NFL 2K5 Take-Two $7,810,233 406,083 (PS2)
ESPN NFL 2K5 Take-Two $7,495,292 385,660 (Xbox)

August 2004 NPD

GCN MADDEN NFL 2005 87,404 $4,307,765
PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 1,112,588 $54,142,420 (Combines both normal and CE edition)
XBX MADDEN NFL 2005 509,100 $25,103,580 (Combines both normal and CE edition)

PS2 ESPN NFL 2K5 448,433 $8,897,210
XBX ESPN NFL 2K5 311,359 $6,165,545

September 2004 NPD

PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 $14,226,930 288,747
MADDEN NFL 2005 $5,091,888 102,886

ESPN NFL 2K5 $3,956,769 203,101 (PS2)
ESPN NFL 2K5 $2,481,845 128,226 (Xbox)

 

[Absoludacrous]

Im wondering are the yearly sales of Madden/NCAA are declining since EA has had total control over the licenses? I only bring this up because alot of complaints i hear about EA's games are the fact that outside of a few tweaks, its basically a $60 roster update every year.

Madden sales have stayed about the same. This past year there was a drop, but I recall it doing well in the following NPDs. Either way it's not a dramatic difference unless next year sees a similar drop as well.

The 'Madden is just a roster tweak every year' complaints have been around since the Genesis, so obviously the millions of people buying the game every year either think differently or don't care.

That's the complaint. Gamers want the NFL, the NCAA, and that's it. Nothing else can be considered competition. The UFL isn't competition. All Pro 2K8 or whatever wasn't competition. EA has effectively monopolized the football market: Anything not officially licensed by either authority is doomed to failure, and EA has control of both. That's a Monopoly. The fact the the NFL handed them said monopoly will make no difference.

Your complaint should be directed at the NFL then. If this is your argument, than the NFL is clearly the one holding the monopoly, not EA. Even if EA gave up the NCAA license to someone else, Madden would still be crushing them every year and I doubt there would be that competition that NFL2K brought.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

For reference for those who are interested:

July 2004 NPD

ESPN NFL 2K5 Take-Two $7,810,233 406,083 (PS2)
ESPN NFL 2K5 Take-Two $7,495,292 385,660 (Xbox)

August 2004 NPD

GCN MADDEN NFL 2005 87,404 $4,307,765
PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 1,112,588 $54,142,420 (Combines both normal and CE edition)
XBX MADDEN NFL 2005 509,100 $25,103,580 (Combines both normal and CE edition)

PS2 ESPN NFL 2K5 448,433 $8,897,210
XBX ESPN NFL 2K5 311,359 $6,165,545

September 2004 NPD

PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 $14,226,930 288,747
MADDEN NFL 2005 $5,091,888 102,886

ESPN NFL 2K5 $3,956,769 203,101 (PS2)
ESPN NFL 2K5 $2,481,845 128,226 (Xbox)

Wow even closer than I always thought it was. A shame that instead of continuing with the competition that gave us great games they instead eliminated the competition with their checkbook and now we get pretty meh football games as a result.

 

[Kittonwy]

Any football game fan should be praying that this lawsuit goes through and the ruling allows any other company to make NFL football games. Whether you think the old 2k football games were any good or not, one thing is blatantly obvious, and that's is that the competition drove EA to make their best football games in their history. I don't think many people would argue against Madden 2004-2007 on the last gen systems being some of the most balanced, well designed football EA has ever made. And then you look at this generation and EA just doesn't give a shit. We are six games into Madden next gen and are still waiting for a game anywhere close to the quality they were consistently putting out last gen when they had competition.

Any other company can make football games, NFL owns the NFL license, and they have every right to control it.

And the lawsuit has nothing to do with the fact that EA has an exclusive license so whether or not the NFL shopped it around or EA went to them is irrelevant. The lawsuit is about potential price gouging they have acted on as a result of their exclusive license. If you look back to the last time EA had competition in the NFL market, 2k released their game for $20 compared to EA's $50. But the most telling thing imho was what happened only a month or so later. As 2k's $20 title sold very well and moved a lot of units, you started seeing EA's title for $30 virtually everywhere. Compare that to today where they have no competition, four months after release their title still sits at $60. In two more months it will still be $60. In March or April it might drop to $40. That is compared to $30 only a month after release the last time they had competition. Maybe that is where the price gouging argument is coming from.

The lawsuit is bullshit because price gouging has not happened, they charge $60 and that's how much most games are priced, it's like giving you a ticket for potential jaywalking, or for potential speeding because you're driving a car. You can get the games for cheap used if you think $60 is too much, you don't have a right to the games dropping in price to $30 after a month.

The again maybe it's also this:
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Madden-NFL-11/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802454108fe

Fucking sickening :lol

Maybe it's EA now charging for access to online features they never charged for before, like online franchise. When that was in the PC version they never charged for it.

Also, do people here actually buy that the NFL shopped that license around and EA was just innocent in the whole process? If the NFL wanted to shop that license around, why would they go to anyone BUT EA? Who was going to outbid EA back then? That would have been a waste of time. The most plausible scenario is EA hated having to sell their product for $30 so early in the NFL season and also hated the market share 2k was gaining and decided the easiest way to keep Madden on top was to eliminate competition. Which was a shame because as a huge Madden fan, that's when the games were the best.

Blame Bethesda for starting all this bullshit with the horse armor.

Seriously you need to let 2K football go, it's dead, even the maggots have left the corpse.

 

[Kittonwy]

You can fault them for the NCAA though.

It's not the NFL in and of itself. It's the NFL, along with the AFL, and NCAA football. If you want any football licensed game you must buy an EA product, no matter the delivery service.

Mario/Zelda/Call of Duty are horrible comparisons. They are all original IPs. EA didn't create football, yet they control practically any and everything that happens with it in the video game space.

NFL owns the license, they decided to let EA have exclusive rights to make games based on it, and they have every right to do so, you don't HAVE to buy a football game with a league license, you have the freedom to buy allpro football.

 

[linkboy]

The NFL created the demand, and then gave it exclusively to EA. There was already monstrous demand for the NFL when multiple people had the license. In fact, it can be argued that in the long run exclusivity is doing more to HURT the NFL's video game brand than help it.

You're right that the long run exclusivity is hurting the NFL's video game brand and its all because EA has decided to 1/2 ass their product. We all know Tiburon is capable of making a good football game when they have the drive to.

The fact of the matter is this, when EA had competition (all the way up from Genesis Madden to 2005), Madden was a damn good football series. The minute that went away, the series went to shit.

However, that has no bearing on this case and I think EA will walk away with a victory in it.

 

[FLEABttn]

were the EA Sports titles using XBL yet? If not, I can see that as a reason why.

Regardless, doesn't this mean that AT&T has a Monopoly on the iPhone? I am FORCED to buy an iPhone if I want a phone made by Apple, and must use AT&T to do it! Why don't they get sued? This is why this whole lawsuit is stupid, because it has no basis. If a private entity wants to sell the rights to make products for their company, then they have the right to do so. For some reason, I don't think anyone would ever had made a big deal about any of this if it had been 2k that bought the rights from the NFL. But hey, in the end, 2k got the baseball license, and has done a shitty job with that and now MVP Baseball ceases to exist, which was miles better. I'd also like to point out that, clearly, the average joe does not care that EA has a "monopoly" on football games, as Madden and NCAA sell just as good as they always have

1) There are good subsitutes to the iPhone that actually sell well. Being forced to go with AT&T means little when there's the Droid on Verizon, Epic 4G on Sprint, or an unlocked iPhone on T-mobile. That's why they don't get sued.

2) Property rights mean little when it comes to monopolies (the monopoly status of this TBD, sort of have to wait for the court on that one).

3) There would still be uproar over 2K getting the licence exclusively. I will admit that the number would have probably been somewhat smaller, but one company holding the NFL licence would have received backlash regardless.

4) 2K has an exclusive 3rd party licence. There's nothing stopping Nintendo or MS from making their own, and Sony makes The Show, which puts pressure on 2K to make a better game at least as there is quality competition. EA in the mix would arguably help more, but it's not the unchallenged mess that Madden is.

5) How little average joe's care has little to do with it being a real problem or not.

 

[Kittonwy]

4) 2K has an exclusive 3rd party licence. There's nothing stopping Nintendo or MS from making their own, and Sony makes The Show, which puts pressure on 2K to make a better game at least as there is quality competition. EA in the mix would arguably help more, but it's not the unchallenged mess that Madden is.

You make it sound like Madden football games are somehow in worse shape than 2K baseball when in fact Madden football games are still very good while 2K baseball hasn't been good for the last few years, the fact is MLB the Show has been kicking 2K baseball's ass year after year.

There's no monopoly on football, or football videogames, there's nothing to stop someone with resources from starting a football league or fund a football videogame, NFL is a brand, the notion that the company that owns a brand can't make business decisions regarding that brand, whether we're talking about exclusive licensing agreement or otherwise, is ludicrous.

 

[Shawn128]

I don't really know who to side with on this situation as both sides have their merits.

It sure would be nice though to have an NFL football game made by another company though. Competition breeds innovation.

 

[FLEABttn]

You make it sound like Madden football games are somehow in worse shape than 2K baseball when in fact Madden football games are still very good while 2K baseball hasn't been good for the last few years, the fact is MLB the Show has been kicking 2K baseball's ass year after year.

There's no monopoly on football, or football videogames, there's nothing to stop someone with resources from starting a football league or fund a football videogame, NFL is a brand, the notion that the company that owns a brand can't make business decisions regarding that brand, whether we're talking about exclusive licensing agreement or otherwise, is ludicrous.

Madden's in better shape than MLB2KX, not arguing that there, but Madden isn't as good as it could be either. The best Madden's were when NFL2KX existed. You can partial-ass your game when people are buying it for the brand alone.

Football is NFL. NFL is football. Those that try to make sim football games that don't feature the NFL soon learn why nobody makes that mistake more than once.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Madden's in better shape than MLB2KX, not arguing that there, but Madden isn't as good as it could be either. The best Madden's were when NFL2KX existed. You can partial-ass your game when people are buying it for the brand alone.

Football is NFL. NFL is football. Those that try to make sim football games that don't feature the NFL soon learn why nobody makes that mistake more than once.

So you are saying that because the NFL is so successful they should be punished for it and not allowed to license themselves out exclusively?

 

[Cels]

video game industry expert Jill Hamburger.



JILL HAMBURGER

 

[Kittonwy]

Madden's in better shape than MLB2KX, not arguing that there, but Madden isn't as good as it could be either. The best Madden's were when NFL2KX existed. You can partial-ass your game when people are buying it for the brand alone.

Football is NFL. NFL is football. Those that try to make sim football games that don't feature the NFL soon learn why nobody makes that mistake more than once.

NFL doesn't have monopoly on football, anyone is free to start a football league, and anyone is free to make a football videogame, nobody is ENTITLED to commercial success.

Commercial failure by those who make football videogames without the NFL brand does not entitle them the right to use the NFL brand, because it's a BRAND owned by the NFL, and the NFL has every right to sign the license exclusively to the highest bidder.

 

[IoCaster]

"We believe EA forced consumers to pay an artificial premium on Madden NFL video games..."

How the hell did EA force anyone to buy a video game?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Any other company can make football games, NFL owns the NFL license, and they have every right to control it.

Not the issue at hand and also complete bullshit anyway In a monopoly it doesn't matter who owns the license. Secondly this is about using a monopoly to price gouge, which history has proved EA is doing.

The lawsuit is bullshit because price gouging has not happened, they charge $60 and that's how much most games are priced, it's like giving you a ticket for potential jaywalking, or for potential speeding because you're driving a car. You can get the games for cheap used if you think $60 is too much, you don't have a right to the games dropping in price to $30 after a month.

The last time EA had competition in the NFL football market, direct competition forced them to sell their game for only $30. The very next year after eliminating the competition with their wallet, they raised it back to $50. Now with no competition they sell it for $60. The lawsuit has merit. Whether or not EA will lose is an entirely different story. Still, any buzz about this situation is a good thing. The quicker we go back to having competition in the market, the better off everyone is.

Blame Bethesda for starting all this bullshit with the horse armor.

No, I think I'll blame EA for trying to nickel and dime us at every possible chance

Seriously you need to let 2K football go, it's dead, even the maggots have left the corpse.

Sorry guy but I am a Madden fan. The simple fact of the matter is Madden was better when there was competition. Why you would even be telling people to let a franchise go, "it's dead", is beyond me, and is even sadder than your apologetic Besthesda crap. Gamers should want competition everywhere. All we get out of it is better games.

 

[v0yce]

NFL doesn't have monopoly on football, anyone is free to start a football league, and anyone is free to make a football videogame, nobody is ENTITLED to commercial success.

Commercial failure by those who make football videogames without the NFL brand does not entitle them the right to use the NFL brand, because it's a BRAND owned by the NFL, and the NFL has every right to sign the license exclusively to the highest bidder.

Anybody could start a phone company when Ma Bell existed too, but let's be serious.

 

[Dunlop]

On a whole this is stupid and EA should not be targetted.

But there is a small voice inside me that says:

"You fucked over the Dreamcast with exclusivitey, time to pay the piper!!mouahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

/goes to find coffeee quick

 

[ElFly]

I never got this. If people don't want to buy a football game cause it doesn't have the NFL/NCAA license, well, they deserve the monopoly that EA created. Terrible customers create a terrible market.

International Super Star Soccer was a success with made up names, while competing with FIFA and the full soccer franchise and created the whole PES franchise afterwards. Why are football fans stupider than soccer fans?

Next thing we will have lawsuits about the exclusivity of Batman games to WB.

"You fucked over the Dreamcast with exclusivitey, time to pay the piper!!mouahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

That's funny in this context, cause back in the dreamcast days the NFL "monopoly" didn't exist yet.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

On a whole this is stupid and EA should not be targetted.

But there is a small voice inside me that says:

"You fucked over the Dreamcast with exclusivitey, time to pay the piper!!mouahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

/goes to find coffeee quick

/after 3 cups of coffee

This is bogus, the NFL is smart for shopping its brand. It's not like they're doing it without good taste. The NFL is as popular as ever and I would like to see competition BUT the NFL sold the rights and EA paid the price. Sorry about it?

 

[FLEABttn]

So you are saying that because the NFL is so successful they should be punished for it and not allowed to license themselves out exclusively?

Monopolies are often punished for their success, usually for abusing it.

NFL doesn't have monopoly on football, anyone is free to start a football league, and anyone is free to make a football videogame, nobody is ENTITLED to commercial success.

Commercial failure by those who make football videogames without the NFL brand does not entitle them the right to use the NFL brand, because it's a BRAND owned by the NFL, and the NFL has every right to sign the license exclusively to the highest bidder.

MS doesn't have monopoly on operating systems, anyone is free to make an OS, nobody is entitled to success, and yet...

How the hell did EA force anyone to buy a video game?

In the same way that DeBeers forced you to buy diamonds or MS forced you to buy Windows. A lack of need doesn't prevent a company from being a monopoly.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

So people are going on record in this thread and claiming that Madden 05 and NFL 2k5 are better than every Madden game this gen? Really?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

NFL owns the license, they decided to let EA have exclusive rights to make games based on it, and they have every right to do so, you don't HAVE to buy a football game with a league license, you have the freedom to buy allpro football.

Hmm...

The Supreme Court doesn't seem to think so.

Regardless, you guys are to vehemently focusing on the idea that the NFL gave EA exclusivity. This action does not exempt EA (or the NFL) from litigation.

So people are going on record in this thread and claiming that Madden 05 and NFL 2k5 are better than every Madden game this gen? Really?

WAT

People are going on record as saying that Madden as a whole was better when it had competiton to drive it.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

So people are going on record in this thread and claiming that Madden 05 and NFL 2k5 are better than every Madden game this gen? Really?

I am. The last truly great Madden game was Madden 2006, which was being worked on when EA still had competition.

 

[Lkr]

So people are going on record in this thread and claiming that Madden 05 and NFL 2k5 are better than every Madden game this gen? Really?

I won't go down on record as saying that. I never had NFL 2k, although I have contemplated buying it used in the past few months.(if someone on gaf has a cheap used copy and a hard drive transfer cable, PM ME!). However, I will say that I popped in Madden 05 a month ago when I was playing some old Gamecube games, and holy shit, it is almost unplayable. To even compare it to Madden 11 is a joke.

 

[bill0527]

May have already been mentioned, but I don't believe the NFL can be sued.

Like Baseball, they hold an anti-trust exemption. That's why me and the rest of GAF can't each throw $100 in a pile and start our own NFL Franchise.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

May have already been mentioned, but I don't believe the NFL can be sued.

Like Baseball, they hold an anti-trust exemption. That's why me and the rest of GAF can't each throw $100 in a pile and start our own NFL Franchise.

Incorrect. Only baseball has an Anti-trust exemption. The NFL, NBA and NHL don't.

 

[GotEmRunnin]

If this goes through I'm gonna sue Verizon for having enough money to buy the NFL mobile license from Sprint.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

So you are saying that because the NFL is so successful they should be punished for it and not allowed to license themselves out exclusively?

It's a violation of their antitrust exemption

 

[The Albatross]

nice bump bro