For the third time, the law hasn't gone into effect yet.
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Judge OKs Arizona's show-me-your-papers law
- Thread starter Dram
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For the third time, the law hasn't gone into effect yet.
You're WAY too polite to be from America.
...
Why don't you show me your papers Mr. CANADA!
It's laid out in the law. Now you get brownie points if you can find "hunch" anywhere in the actual SB 1070.
That's the point. How do you know what's going to happen if the law isn't even in effect? Why all the crying?
Devolution
Member
What's laid out in the law? How to profile citizens?
Because racial profiling is an issue that is known to have a presence in police forces across the nation. So a law that is BASED on racial profiling seems like it will only encourage the practice.
So why didn't the Justice Department argue against the law as using racial profiling to find its victims?
You could, but you can also make a reasonable inference of laws that were passed that weren't steeped in racial profiling. For example, enacting immigration laws, unless you truly believe that they were set up in the US specifically to keep out people of brown skin color.
Why are you asking me? I can't begin to understand what kind of decisions go on inside the Justice Department.
I don't think the law uses racial profiling, only that it encourages racial profiling and has a specific racial bias.
You have no point. You're arguing a law that isn't enacted yet. And you're pretending to be oblivious to the civil right abuse of illegal aliens and legal citizens in Arizona as it is right now. Its not a conspiracy, you're denying the facts of arizona right now. They are on a mission to get rid of illegals in their state, which is 1 specific make that they are after. Mexican. ACLU has plenty of fodder in that state right now, which I'm sure you're not aware of, as you're not aware of much there right now.
But, keep arguing
Its just the most moronic response to a blatant attempt to racially profile, again in ARiz's case, that I've seen in my life.edit:
as others have said... nevermind. You have no experience with profiling and the police. Nor have you heard about it, specifically in Arizona..
What the fuck is happening to my country??
According to Zenghi...
nothing?
But to people like me, its terrifying to see something like this make it this far! I mean, thats the bigger issue. Go Arizona go! Obama tried to block it, but you know... something something..
I'll answer that for you. Because it had no merit in regards to the law.
According to commediu, the SKY IS FALLING... THE SKY IS FALLING....
Nothing has happened yet Chicken Little.
Cool, you answered a question that you asked yourself that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
Wanna talk about the issue at hand now?
The sky fell in Arizona a while ago. But, again, nothing you'd be aware of.
It's harder for white people to notice the fallen sky in Arizona.
The scale ranges from "real American" to "secret Muslim".
I'm a 2 on that scale, but I am a legal immigrant who carries a green card in his wallet.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Oh Zhengi
Blergmeister
Member
To be blunt, I'm a legal American citizen who is a white male in his 20s. I don't believe I meet the modern stereotype of an illegal immigrant by any fashion. If I were vacationing in Arizona and witnessed a crime where the cops come and question me, and say the cop doesn't like the cut of my jib for whatever reason, could he ask for my drivers license and arrest me when I tell him I left it in the hotel?
I never said it was the norm, I just it was one possibility.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I look forward to the first trial where the officer has to take the stand and state how they came to have their "reasonable suspicion".
yep. But, lol.. you're white.
You've got nothing to worry about! Get out of here with that fantasy nonsense!
Your argument boils down to "The law has not been enforced yet, thus we should not question it."
Think about that for a second.
Blergmeister
Member
Thats stereotyping!
Regardless, this law gives the police the ability to arrest anyone for not having legal proof of citizenship on them. I'm thinking of the potential for abuse by the police outside the intent of the law.
This has already happened here in Georgia. I have friends that go to a mostly Filipino-only church in Peachtree City (which is very white-dominated and for upper-income families) where they also live and one weekend after a sportsfest and the mass that followed there were multiple cops with their cars and even a truck and makeshift table waiting for them to interrogate them one-by-one. It really stressed them out because they were clearly profiled and practically no one carried their passports with them.
That happens in Arizona actually, still. They wait outside of churches.. there is some slang term for what the cops call it, something like corralling? or something.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/arizona-sh...but-more-still-to-come-168303156.html?ref=156
ahh round up.
"I haven't heard of this!" -Zenghi
The scale ranges from "real American" to "secret Muslim".
What if I am an illegal 1? How will they know? D:
you win! You won't get pulled over due to a faulty....uh..._________ to check!
John Rabbit
Banned
racist police were racist before this law existed. people are acting like every cop is suddenly a klan member because of 1070.
btw, if AZ cops pulled over every brown person on the road, nothing else would get done. the few officers i know and have spoken to about this law have said they don't intend to change how they patrol and for the most part they seem to regard it as a nuisance more than anything.
btw, if AZ cops pulled over every brown person on the road, nothing else would get done. the few officers i know and have spoken to about this law have said they don't intend to change how they patrol and for the most part they seem to regard it as a nuisance more than anything.
Pristine_Condition
Member
I have experienced the world, buddy, and let me tell you this...that's hi-hi-hilarious coming from the Mexican government.
I've worked in Mexico on multiple occasions doing photoshoots. With all my paperwork in place, done by the legal departments at a large US corporation that is very popular in Mexico, and with co-sponsors from large companies on the Mexico side.
From my experience, you better have ALL your papers AT ALL TIMES when you are down there. That's Mexican law. They enforce it more harshly than ANY other country I've ever worked in. Seriously.
And yes, you will be asked to present those papers, probably multiple times, not only while working there, but any time you can imagine. If you give them any excuse, (like miraculously not having your papers while coming out of the ocean from a swim,) they'll lock you up, or threaten to, unless you kick out some cash, or happen to have a Mexican citizen with you with some political pull to talk you out of a bad situation.
Even with all that, we would have our vans pulled over by Policía Federal often whenever we left the sponsoring resorts to go shoot on any remote location. Sometimes, it was just an obvious shakedown for a bribe--like the time our van got pulled over and a Federale pulled us over and simply removed our license plates and wouldn't give them back without some cash. They did this even while we had a camera crew videotaping the whole thing.
And how suspicious did we look? A van, traveling well-known tourist destinations, with the official logos of the sponsoring resort splashed all over the side, full of swimsuit models and hair/makeup artists--obviously a criminal enterprise.
So, cry me a river if the Mexicans are complaining about "harassment." They are the biggest dicks imaginable even to legit people trying to do legit business in their country. And our negative experiences come from the perspective of "rich" gringos trying to do business...it's a completely different tune if you are a poor migrant from Guatemala trying to get through there. You want to talk harassment and racism, talk to one of those guys.
Pot, meet this huge fucking kettle.
CharlieDigital
Banned
sweet. Who said every single AZ cop is going to pull over every brown person again though? Who said every AZ cop is racist...? Who is acting like that, in this thread?
Don't believe anyone mentioned that. Its going to make the racist police, have the protection of he law behind them to be even more blatantly racist.
Thats the concern..
as things like
The U.S. Department of Justice also has sued the sheriff for alleged constitutional violations including racial profiling, retaliating against Arpaio critics, punishing Latino jail inmates with limited English skills for speaking Spanish and failing to adequately investigate a large number of sex-crimes cases. No trial date in that case has been set.
happen in AZ...
Its safe to agree that this will make a bad situation worse, and its unfortunate to see happen in my country.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
As a brown skinned person I'd be afraid to go to Arizona.
Welfare state fucked it up. You can't have open borders + welfare state. You have to pick one or the other. USA picked welfare
I'm not white
No one is saying don't question the law. Have you actually read the law that was written? I have, and they have it in there that you can't use solely race as a basis to stop anyone. It's written into the law that you can't use race to stop someone, and yet, those of you who are questioning the law, have you even read this part? If racial profiling does happen, that person is free to go and it's stated in the law. So I've read the law and I've questioned it and I've come to a different conclusion than all of you. Is that wrong?
If you don't have identity papers with you, they can arrest you.
At least that's how it works in France.
Funfact:We got it in 1940, it was put in place by the Vichy regime.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
He could but he most likely wouldn't.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Don't think so.
The primary driver is jobs and this mythology that they're "stealing" our jobs.
While there is some truth to that in the sense that many businesses employ illegal immigrants, we've seen time and again that when some of these jobs are opened to local citizens who are seeking jobs, many cannot handle working these types of manual labor jobs with many farmers losing crops because they didn't have access to labor after these types of laws have been passed (or even the threat of being passed).
balladofwindfishes
Member
I want some of this rumored US welfare, because I pay 1,000 dollars a month for health insurance and have 40,000 dollars in student loans, but I'm being told we're a welfare state!
I want to pick welfare, oh let me pick welfare!
rofl @ united states is a welfare state
Then my next question becomes, why don't we do it legally rather than have illegal immigrants do it? Why don't we set up a guest worker program where we bring in legal immigrants in to work the fields? This doesn't excuse the fact that they are illegal in the country.
And also, not all illegal immigrants work in the fields. That is the typical argument that is used, but there are many other jobs that they take like jobs in construction. People used to be able to make a living as a carpenter and that job is no longer available anymore.
Yes, I have.
There are bureaucracies that act with little supervision. For example, police officers. How do you prove that there is racial profiling, especially when it is a 'respected and dignified' person that is arresting a possible illegal immigrant? Don't get defensive because people are questioning your logic - these are government basics.
CharlieDigital
Banned
This is the billion dollar question.
I know this
NJ has many Latinos. My mom has rental properties and I would guess that some of her tenants are illegal. They work the gamut from restaurants, to landscaping, to construction, to other types of labor.This has nothing to do with welfare. It has to do with the attitudes of the Mexican workers. Much more compliant, work harder, and work longer. If you look at it like a free market, it's the logical choice for businesses.
Omegasquash
Member
Heaven forbid.
How am I getting defensive? I'm just stating facts right now. Fact: Law not enacted, no racial profiling done yet. A person cannot be defensive if all they are presenting are facts.
And respected and dignified person? WTF? If that were the case, then they should be given the chance to be proven guilty rather than declared guilty by people like you. Even before anything has happened you have already condemned the police as if they are guilty of it all.
And do you really believe that this law and bureaucracy will suddenly get away with everything it does especially with all the attention it is getting? There are immigrant rights activist who will be closely monitoring the situation and nothing like what you have described will be let go. Once the racial profiling happens, bam, they're going to bring down the hammer on them. So I don't even know why you are pretending that this bureaucracy and law will not get the attention it deserves.
Defensive:
Racial profiling is made possible under the law. The gist of it is that a police officer will always have favor in the case of a person bringing a suit to the agency. Once again: how do you prove an officer of being guilty of racial profiling? Simply not passing the law would help reduce any possibility of racial profiling. As I said before, your argument boils down to the idea that the law hasn't been enforced yet, and thus we can't address any possible ramifications, which is just bad decision-making.
Yeah, police officers can get away with racial profiling a lot easier than the rest of the populace. It's not a thing where an activist group goes *bam* we are 100% certain that the police officer is being racist. In the real world, it's just not possible. You need evidence, and what evidence is there? And this is all speculation on your part; it seems that you agree that racial profiling is possible as a result of the law. Then why let it pass?
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