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[ShadowRed]

Good it's about time they put this lady out of her misery. Should have been done years ago if these nosey as holy roller right wingers hadn't gotten involved.





Judge rejects GOP bid to keep Schiavo alive
Senate, House Republican leaders had tried to interveneNBC, MSNBC and news services
Updated: 2:18 p.m. ET March 18, 2005PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Rejecting requests from Republican leaders in Congress, a Florida judge on Friday refused to again delay permission to remove the feeding tube keeping alive Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged woman at the center of a battle between her husband and her parents.


Judge George Greer said he saw no reason to change his earlier permission allowing Schiavo's husband to remove her feeding tube as early as 1 p.m. ET Friday. The tube has been removed twice in the past and then reinserted as the battle continued.

Greer ordered that the tube be removed immediately, per Michael Schiavo's request.

Terri Schiavo's parents are expected to appeal to a higher state court, and Republicans in Congress could still try to pass a law overriding the removal as early as Monday.

The Republican-controlled Senate health committee earlier Friday requested that Schiavo and her husband appear at a hearing March 28 on health care for "non-ambulatory persons." The move to include Terri Schiavo, who is in a vegetative state, was meant to block the removal of her tube, at least until the congressional hearing is held.

In a press release, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, himself a doctor, noted that federal law "protects witnesses called before official Congressional committee proceedings from anyone who may obstruct or impede a witness' attendance or testimony."

David Gibbs, the attorney for her parents, said that “what the U.S. Congress is saying is, ‘We want to see Terri Schiavo.'"

“The family is prayerfully excited about their daughter going before the United States Congress for the whole world to see how alive she is," he added.

Gibbs also told MSNBC Cable that "we're very optimistic that no responsible" doctor or medical staff would remove the tube given the congressional action.

 

[AntoneM]

ok, just give me a sniper rifle and put me on top of a building next to her room, It will be a quick and painless death

 

[Azih]

prayerfully excited?

 

[mrmyth]

ok, just give me a sniper rifle and put me on top of a building next to her room, It will be a quick and painless death

You could toss lighter fluid on her and flame on and it would be a painless death for her. The part of her brain that feels anything died 15 years ago.

Her parents don't seem to understand that.

 

[xsarien]

Every side of this argument is ugly, but shame on her parents for keeping her alive in such a state. It's probably worse than death.

 

[Pellham]

The only reason Michael Schiavo wants Terri to die is so that he can marry his new girlfriend with a clear conscious.

Whether Terri should die should be a decision left to her parents.

 

[Azih]

I'm pretty sure parents have very little say after their kids go over the age of majority. Plus spouse definetly has more precedence.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

Every side of this argument is ugly, but shame on her parents for keeping her alive in such a state. It's probably worse than death.

how about shame on her husband for nearly 15 years of not allowing her to go through therapy that could improve her life...

she's not on any life support other than the feeding tube... this is nothing more than murder...

have any of you seen the videos of her interaction with her parents? this woman is NOT dead...

should we just kill all people with down syndrome as well? put them out of their misery?

 

[brooklyngooner]

The only reason Michael Schiavo wants Terri to die is so that he can marry his new girlfriend with a clear conscious.

Whether Terri should die should be a decision left to her parents.

No and no. She was in a persistive vegetative state for eight years prior to her husband attempting to have her feeding tube removed. His wife is for all intents and purposes dead, because she is braindead, to which a mountain of medical evidence attests. And he is her guardian, so it's his decision. She had discussed her wishes for this situation to him and to friends, all of whom have testified.

 

[brooklyngooner]

how about shame on her husband for nearly 15 years of not allowing her to go through therapy that could improve her life...

she's not on any life support other than the feeding tube... this is nothing more than murder...

have any of you seen the videos of her interaction with her parents? this woman is NOT dead...

should we just kill all people with down syndrome as well? put them out of their misery?

You realize of course than an endless number of doctors have provided medical evidence that she is braindead, don't you? She has extensive damage to her cerebral cortex.

 

[Zelda-Bitch]

how about shame on her husband for nearly 15 years of not allowing her to go through therapy that could improve her life...

she's not on any life support other than the feeding tube... this is nothing more than murder...

have any of you seen the videos of her interaction with her parents? this woman is NOT dead...

should we just kill all people with down syndrome as well? put them out of their misery?

this man has a point you know.

 

[Zelda-Bitch]

If she is braindead though, that is a different story. However, according to a qoute in the article on CNN, she is not braindead.'



"He described Schiavo as "responsive" although he acknowledged she functions at the level of a 6- to 11-month-old child. She recognizes her family, he said. "She teases. She plays. She smiles. She tries to talk." Schiavo also can breathe and swallow on her own, he said."


Doesn't sound braindead to me.

 

[brooklyngooner]

If she is braindead though, that is a different story. However, according to CNN she is not braindead.

I should correct my statement about being braindead -- she is not in the strict clinical sense. But the damage to her brain renders her incapable of memory, thought or emotion. As close to braindead as one can get.

 

[xsarien]

how about shame on her husband for nearly 15 years of not allowing her to go through therapy that could improve her life...

she's not on any life support other than the feeding tube... this is nothing more than murder...

She's in a persistent vegetative state, I somehow doubt - given your post - you have any idea what that means.

So, let's let the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke take a stab at it, huh?

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/coma/coma.htm

A persistent vegetative state (commonly, but incorrectly, referred to as "brain-death") sometimes follows a coma. Individuals in such a state have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands.

This woman is trapped, in a rare case of the metaphorical and literal definitions applying to the situtation. She is not only completely unaware of what's going on around her, but the only way she can generate movement is if there's some external force applied. Biologically she is alive. Psychologically, emotionally, she's dead, and has been for more than a decade. You call it "living." That's cute. I call it torture (for everyone, no less.)

should we just kill all people with down syndrome as well? put them out of their misery?

Proving once again that you clearly don't know what you're talking about, Down Syndrome and a PVS aren't even in the same LEAGUE, let alone the same ballpark.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

You realize of course than an endless number of doctors have provided medical evidence that she is braindead, don't you? She has extensive damage to her cerebral cortex.

"The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment."

http://terrisfight.org/

The pro-death crowd wasn't happy with abortion, now they've set their sights on this poor woman and her REAL family who has been by her the side the whole time...

But I'm leaving for Spring Break now, so I'll end up looking like a right-wing bigot since I can't respond anymore...

My view is, the burden of proof to kill this woman should be awfully high, and there are too many questions about her husband and the circumstances... not to mention she interacts with her parents...

http://terrisfight.org/multimedia.html

 

[Zelda-Bitch]

I should correct my statement about being braindead -- she is not in the strict clinical sense. But the damage to her brain renders her incapable of memory, thought or emotion. As close to braindead as one can get.

And there is where the issue lies my friend.

 

[brooklyngooner]

"The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment."

http://terrisfight.org/

The pro-death crowd wasn't happy with abortion, now they've set their sights on this poor woman and her REAL family who has been by her the side the whole time...

But I'm leaving for Spring Break now, so I'll end up looking like a right-wing bigot since I can't respond anymore...

My view is, the burden of proof to kill this woman should be awfully high, and there are too many questions about her husband and the circumstances... not to mention she interacts with her parents...

http://terrisfight.org/multimedia.html

That's all really nice, but you're basing this purely off of what her parents and her parents' lawyers say about her, not what her medical doctors are testifying under oath.

As for the pro-death crowd comment, you're a fucking idiot. I'm not advocating she die. I'm advocating her husband be allowed to carry out his wife's wishes without interference from a government that clearly want to possess the right to decide who lives and who dies for itself and two parents who refuse to admit their daughter is gone. The Supreme Court has refused to hear this case and this appeal and now Jeb and his cronies are trying an end-around.

 

[xsarien]

The pro-death crowd

That's nice. I pick up on little tweaks of the English language like this, and I don't appreciate it. If I'm "pro-death" because I support euthanasia, because I believe that someone in an inescapable situation should not be forced through day after day of pain, or not denied a dignified death just because of maladjusted moralists claiming that death is somehow worse, fine. I'll deal with that.

But that just makes you "pro-suffering."

 

[brooklyngooner]

If she is braindead though, that is a different story. However, according to a qoute in the article on CNN, she is not braindead.'



"He described Schiavo as "responsive" although he acknowledged she functions at the level of a 6- to 11-month-old child. She recognizes her family, he said. "She teases. She plays. She smiles. She tries to talk." Schiavo also can breathe and swallow on her own, he said."


Doesn't sound braindead to me.

That's a quote from her parents' lawyer. Try again.

 

[AntoneM]

well, you've got her parents saying that she interacts with them and her husband saying she doesn't. Who to believe? I say believe the doctors, and they say that she is a vegetable. And that there is no law that prevents the removale of her tube due to the state she is actually and medically in.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Who cares? This is between a man and his wife. The state shouldn't be interfering, period. This is a sadly a slippery slope issue, b/c it will establish precedent that could allow overzealous legislators make ridiculous laws. Let's be honest, there are a lot of zealots in Congress, and they're licking their chops at this case. I don't want the government governing my body or anyone else's. The law gives the husband the controls here, let him be. PEACE.

 

[ge-man]

If there's anything that should learned from this case, that lesson is that you should get you will and other things in order before you leave your loved ones in this kind of gut wrenching situation.

As for my personal view on the case, I think the fact that she has been left in this state is cruel. I don't believe that crap about rehabilitation--just because she can react to things doesn't mean that she is a complete person or can ever be what she again. I would want to have the tube pulled if I was her family. And I would hope that if I was in her shoes, my family would pull the tube on me without the fighting. I don't want to be a burden, nor do I want to continue with my existence if I lost my capacity for thinking and emotions.

 

[Thaedolus]

As a Republican, I'm kind of pissed that congress is trying to get involved in this. The way I see it is simple: Terri made it clear that if she was ever in this state, she would want to die. That's it. It doesn't matter what your stance on the issue is, then, just her stance. She wanted to be cut off, and her wishes should be respected. I think it's selfish of anyone to keep her in this world when what little thread of life she's still clinging to lacks any sort of quality whatsoever.

 

[BigJonsson]

So now Jesus W Bush is involved with this?!?

Doesn't he have more important matters to tend to?!?

Christian fundamentalists are just as bad as Muslim fundamentalists

 

[ge-man]

So now Jesus W Bush is involved with this?!?

Doesn't he have more important matters to tend to?!?

Christian fundamentalists are just as bad as Muslim fundamentalists

I know how you feel. I was thinking the same way just the other day with the whole steroid issue in the MLB--why the hell is it a matter the government? Instead of this shit, there should be more debate on the social security issue and some the controversial measures that have come up to vote in the last few days. I could care less about the state of major league sports, nor do I see the benefit of the my government meddling in the affairs of husband who like for his himself and his wife to finally move on.

 

[mrmyth]

Her parents are supreme bullshitters. Every doctor they have that agrees with them was paid, and on top of that, none of them have ever examined Terry Schiavo in person. All they've seen is a minutes long highlight reel.

So tell me, if she interacts with her family, why are they shopping the same 15 minutes of footage to the media, courts, and assorted quack doctors? Out of 15 years they've only gotten less than a half hour of usable material to plead their case?

And don't go in on the husband being evil. The man has turned down multimillion dollar offers to give up power of attorney. He's apparently doing what his wife wanted. Yes, he has another fiancee and two kids. Its been fifteen years. He's not a priest.

Finally, why the fuck is the party that portends to stand for less government involvement in citizens daily lives all up in this piece like its an oil rich country? It had its day in the courts. Get back to what's really important, like whether a bunch of overpaid fatheads juiced themselves.

 

[xsarien]

I know how you feel. I was thinking the same way just the other day with the whole steroid issue in the MLB--why the hell is it a matter the government?

Major League Baseball is a government-sanctioned monopoly. I'd imagine that in order to retain that privilege, such concessions as "Make sure you adequately punish players who break the law," would be high up on the list of things to do.

 

[gofreak]

I don't want to relate this specifically to this case, but a general question:

if you can't think, are you concious?

 

[mrmyth]

This is GAF. We learn by doing.



You know what you have to do.

 

[ge-man]

I don't want to relate this specifically to this case, but a general question:

if you can't think, are you concious?

No. I think that you can be self-aware, but conciousness denotes some kind of ability for independent thougt IMO.

xsarien--You have a point, but I guess I just don't see how the country benefits from whether not some dickheads are shortening their life out of greed.

 

[Zelda-Bitch]

As a Republican, I'm kind of pissed that congress is trying to get involved in this. The way I see it is simple: Terri made it clear that if she was ever in this state, she would want to die. That's it. It doesn't matter what your stance on the issue is, then, just her stance. She wanted to be cut off, and her wishes should be respected. I think it's selfish of anyone to keep her in this world when what little thread of life she's still clinging to lacks any sort of quality whatsoever.

If that was her wish, I would respect that. Case closed. Next issue.

 

[darscot]

I just read about this today and my first thought was damn did this guy ever love his wife. The purest form of love, he could have walked away 15 years ago and never looked back. Yet he goes through all this, I hope I never have to make a choice like this. If I ever do I could only hope to have the kind of character this guy has.

 

[ge-man]

I just read about this today and my first thought was damn did this guy ever love his wife. The purest form of love, he could have walked away 15 years ago and never looked back. Yet he goes through all this, I hope I never have to make a choice like this. If I ever do I could only hope to have the kind of character this guy has.

Again, this case is a perfect example of why people need to have their things in order before a catastrophe happens. I feel sorry for all those involve--especially his wife.

 

[xsarien]

xsarien--You have a point, but I guess I just don't see how the country benefits from whether not some dickheads are shortening their life out of greed.

Well, that's a completely seperate issue. I'm all for the legalization of all drugs, let people do what they want to themselves. No one wins in a nanny state.

 

[AssMan]

I live in Clearwater, Fl and there are people out on the streets holding signs saying "let her live!"

Anyway, only way they could reverse the process is if the H.O.R. passes the senates bill to Bush and he signs it. Should be interesting if Bush will talk about this.

 

[darscot]

I'm not a fan of having her linger for two weeks while she starves to death. There is just no need for that just give here a shot and end it.

 

[ShadowRed]

I'm not a fan of having her linger for two weeks while she starves to death. There is just no need for that just give here a shot and end it.

Yes this is what makes it difficult for me. Yes she needs to be let go, but I don't like the thought of her starving to death for 2 weeks. This is the perfect case for doctor assisted suicide.

 

[Dilbert]

The pro-death crowd wasn't happy with abortion, now they've set their sights on this poor woman and her REAL family who has been by her the side the whole time...

Do NOT do that again. Not only are you playing petty games with language, but you've managed to conflate this woman's situation with abortion, which is TOTALLY different. If you want to make a real argument about her situation, I'm all ears.

Finally, she DOES meet the criteria for a persistant vegetative state. Anyone who thinks she is "reacting" to anything is guilty of anthropomorphism. People talk to their computers, they talk to their pets...people think cheering for their favorite sports teams has an actual EFFECT on the outcome, for crying out loud. Did it ever occur to you that her parents WANT to see her in a certain way, regardless of the reality of the situation?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They need to just let this woman die with dignity already. Imagine 15 years trapped in your own body like that? Just so her selfish family can hold out hope for a miracle. A fucking miracle?! Ridiculous.

 

[Hitokage]

Apparently her family wants to reenact Weekend at Bernies that badly.

 

[ShadowRed]

These Republicans are out their fucking minds. now they are trying to call this lady to testify in front of Congress. What a bunch of dickweeds.




http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=593300




WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Hours before a feeding tube was to be removed from a brain-damaged Florida woman, U.S. lawmakers on Friday called on the woman to appear before congressional committees in an attempt to keep her alive.

Republican leaders from the Senate and House of Representatives said in separate statements they would use congressional probes to stave off the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, that was slated for 1 p.m.

"The Senate and the House remain dedicated to saving Terri Schiavo's life. While discussions over possible legislative remedies continue, the Senate and the House are taking action to keep her alive in the interim," said Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican.

Frist said the Senate will call Schiavo as a witness before the its Health, Education and Labor Committee at a March 28 hearing in the middle of Congress' two-week Easter recess.

Federal law protects a witness "from anyone who … influences, obstructs, or impedes an inquiry or investigation by Congress," Frist said.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay of Texas said they planned to issue a subpoena later in the day to keep Schiavo alive.

Schiavo has been fed through a tube since she suffered an incapacitating heart attack in 1990. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, contends she would not have wanted to be kept alive in what court-appointed doctors describe as a persistent vegetative state.

"Tom DeLay and Dennis Hastert are not members of the Politburo in Stalinist Russia," Michael Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos, told Reuters by telephone. "The state does not own Mrs. Schiavo's body and Congress cannot simply order her to remain alive contrary to her medical treatment wishes and court order."

Felos said Congress has no power to enter an injunction. "The only subpoena Congress can issue is to appear before a congressional body," he said.

Schiavo's parents are fighting to keep their daughter alive, saying she responds to them and could improve with rehabilitation. The right-to-die case has galvanized activists on both sides of issue.

 

[Dilbert]

These Republicans are out their fucking minds. now they are trying to call this lady to testify in front of Congress.

If she actually shows up, I bet that she'd have more to say than McGwire did yesterday.

 

[darscot]

If she actually shows up, I bet that she'd have more to say than McGwire did yesterday.

That was funny as hell in a twisted sort of way.

 

[explodet]

So let me get this straight.... members of both the Senate and Congress want a woman in a vegetative state to appear before a congressional committee?

What exactly do they intend to do once she's there?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What exactly do they intend to do once she's there?

poke her with sticks.

 

[Ill Saint]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050318/D88TKRG82.html

 

[hippie]

The government has no right to say whether she should live or die. Frankly, it's none of their business. Besides, this is precisely the situation a living will is for. If she didn't have one, it should be up to the family and nobody else to say whether or not they pull the plug. Life support exists for a reason and nobody in the government, nor on this message board, can guess HOW she would have liked to have lived. To some people the thought of ceasing to exist is infinitely more scary than existing in less than ideal conditions (understatement).

Who freaking cares if the family wants to keep her alive? They claim she still has cognitive functions, others claim she doesn't. If she truly DOESN'T, than she isn't even aware of what's going on. So who cares, she isn't suffering?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The government has no right to say whether she should live or die. Frankly, it's none of their business. Besides, this is precisely the situation a living will is for. If she didn't have one, it should be up to the family and nobody else to say whether or not they pull the plug. Life support exists for a reason and nobody in the government, nor on this message board, can guess HOW she would have liked to have lived. To some people the thought of ceasing to exist is infinitely more scary than existing in less than ideal conditions (understatement).

Who freaking cares if the family wants to keep her alive? They claim she still has cognitive functions, others claim she doesn't. If she truly DOESN'T, than she isn't even aware of what's going on. So who cares, she isn't suffering?

they've been trying to keep the government out of this. By law, the husband is her legal guardian and has wanted to pull the plug. HEr family is the one wanting to get congress involved.

 

[ShadowRed]

poke her with sticks.

:lol FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKER YOU JUST SENT ME TO HELL!!!!!!

 

[Incognito]

Outrageous. Just simply mind-boggling.