• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Julian Assange: Wikileaks emails were not from Russia

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
That's because Chelsea Manning has already been convicted. Julian Assange has not even been tried.

If you think Assange would face the death penalty if convicted I don't know what to say to you. The international outrage would be so large that the US would never even contemplate it.

I mean if people like you think mass surveillance and a police state, torture, media manipulation, constant illegal wars, and ultimately, ultimate power over us little peons is OK, then you deserve the fate you are heading towards.

People like Snowden and Assange are on our sides, I don't know how the media can manipulate your brain to think otherwise, unless nothing is between your ears.
 

Steel

Banned
Jun 20, 2013
19,664
1
0
Weird. So what is true?

You'd have to read the thousands of emails for yourself, honestly.

For the DNC leaks: The bad stuff is that the employees had personal opinions on who they wanted to win the primary(politically active people have opinions, who knew), and occasionally tossed around ideas on how to help Hillary that never got used. One employee who is now fired said something very anti-semitic. None of the ideas were acted on.

For the Podesta leaks: There's shitloads of stuff to go through, so reading it is best. But, as an example, one of the more common accusations is that Hillary met with one of her donors(to Clinton Foundation) while secretary of state. But, you also have to mention, this donor is a world leader and the secretary of state's job is kinda to meet with world leaders. Most of the accusations go like that.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Jul 11, 2007
24,402
2,033
1,700
I mean if people like you think mass surveillance and a police state, torture, media manipulation, constant illegal wars, and ultimately, ultimate power over us little peons is OK, then you deserve the fate you are heading towards.

People like Snowden and Assange are on our sides, I don't know how the media can manipulate your brain to think otherwise, unless nothing is between your ears.
Bless your heart.
 

KooopaKid

Banned
Jun 3, 2014
4,978
0
0
You'd have to read the thousands of emails for yourself, honestly.

For the DNC leaks: The bad stuff is that the employees had personal opinions on who they wanted to win the primary(politically active people have opinions, who knew), and occasionally tossed around ideas on how to help Hillary that never got used. One employee who is now fired said something very anti-semitic. None of the ideas were acted on.

For the Podesta leaks: There's shitloads of stuff to go through, so reading it is best. But, as an example, one of the more common accusations is that Hillary met with one of her donors(to Clinton Foundation) while secretary of state. But, you also have to mention, this donor is a world leader and the secretary of state's job is kinda to meet with world leaders. Most of the accusations go like that.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Another case where it's going to be time consuming to know the facts. Same as Syria.
 

*Splinter

Member
Jul 29, 2014
9,676
1
0
No, but Wikileaks ordinarily never says anything about the sources of anything they release. So the fact that Assange went public with the statement that they are not from Russia is extremely significant.

Considering how well-known it is that Assange dislikes Hillary, it wouldn't make sense for him to do this unless he really thought that this perceived Russian association was undermining the other stuff that Wikileaks releases.
Well... Yeah, exactly?

I don't know why you'd be giving him the benefit of the doubt at this point.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Jun 4, 2007
11,892
0
1,265
Sweden
And lastly, fearing extradition to the US is ridiculous. Sweden doesn't extradite either for political crimes or when the death penalty could be in play, both of which apply if the US accuses Assange of espionage. Not to mention that any further extraditions now also require UK court approval because they're responsible for the original extradition!

My eyes, they won't stop rolling.
The US frowns and threatens trade sanctions, Sweden complies. We had no problems giving up people to Egyptian torture prisons by way of the CIA, an undeniable fact - yet thinking that Assange might also be given up in a heartbeat is "ridiculous"?

For the record, I also think that the case is too public to have Sweden just roll over, but you would be stupid to stake your own life on it given our shitty track record. It's easier to be rational and calculate odds when you don't personally have a life in prison at stake.
Assange is a bit of a cunt for sure, but obviously not that stupid.
 
Dec 11, 2012
22,028
2
0
That doesn't mean a lot though, I seem to recall a lot of people on this board also wanting Snowden to be returned to the US and prosecuted. This board is often very strongly pro-authoritarian.



Really? Always? Even when they were releasing material about the Iraq War and the TPP?

Well, scratch the second one, I know how pro-TPP and pro-trade agreements this board is too.

Also I don't know what 'the detriment of America' is in this case, is it not to the benefit of American citizens that secret materials about the inner workings of their government be made public?

Absolutely not?
 

StayDead

Member
Mar 10, 2011
16,140
1
0
If you think Assange would face the death penalty if convicted I don't know what to say to you. The international outrage would be so large that the US would never even contemplate it.

I mean if people like you think mass surveillance and a police state, torture, media manipulation, constant illegal wars, and ultimately, ultimate power over us little peons is OK, then you deserve the fate you are heading towards.

People like Snowden and Assange are on our sides, I don't know how the media can manipulate your brain to think otherwise, unless nothing is between your ears.

He'll go to jail and suddenly it will turn out that he "commited suicide" and that's the last you'll hear of it.

Media will call him a coward and bam, no international outrage.
 
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
He'll go to jail and suddenly it will turn out that he "commited suicide" and that's the last you'll hear of it.

Media will call him a coward and bam, no international outrage.

Yeah I wouldn't put it past them. The same 'suicide' happened to weapons inspector David Kelly here in the UK over his findings over the Iraq war and lack of evidence of WMDs.
 

Nivash

Member
Nov 13, 2013
3,212
5
0
My eyes, they won't stop rolling.
The US frowns and threatens trade sanctions, Sweden complies. We had no problems giving up people to Egyptian torture prisons by way of the CIA, an undeniable fact - yet thinking that Assange might also be given up in a heartbeat is "ridiculous"?

For the record, I also think that the case is too public to have Sweden just roll over, but you would be stupid to stake your own life on it given our shitty track record. It's easier to be rational and calculate odds when you don't personally have a life in prison at stake.
Assange is a bit of a cunt for sure, but obviously not that stupid.

You might also remember that the Egyptian case triggered a massive national scandal. It's not something the government would want repeated. It's also massively different: it was during the heyday of the post-9/11 hysteria and was likewise for terrorist charges which made the decision legal, although extremely controversial and against the spirit of of the law.

Extraditing Assange on espionage charges would be extremely illegal. We don't extradite people accused of political crimes and we would also need approval from the UK High Court as well to consider extraditing Assange for anything. It's not happening.

Assange is either a paranoid nutjob or a he's using this conspiracy theory to escape justice. Possibly both.
Yeah I wouldn't put it past them. The same 'suicide' happened to weapons inspector David Kelly here in the UK over his findings over the Iraq war and lack of evidence of WMDs.

Which is another conspiracy theory. Kelly may very well have been hounded to the point of suicide, but calling it murder is complete conjecture lacking any hard evidence.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.the...d-kelly-man-secrets?client=ms-android-samsung
 

Skiptastic

Member
Jan 17, 2007
14,868
5
1,205
The most amazing thing about this election is how people who used to hate something now suddenly love it just because it now supports their position instead of opposing it. I mean, just look at Hannity and Assange.

Wikileaks used to be a hero when they were leaking the Bush stuff, including that video of the Iraq War a number of years back. Now they are suddenly a villain who are a propaganda arm of Vladimir Putin. It kind of makes you wonder sometimes. The truth is always only what agrees with your position, no matter what your position is on the political spectrum.
What the fuck is this shit? If there is a truth that can be proven that goes against your position, and you willfully ignore or squash it, we have a word for you: asshole.

When things get subjective (I liked this movie because X but didn't like another movie because of X), and especially when it is on things that don't really matter, then who cares. But if stealing classified or personal information and leaking it is wrong (which it is), it doesn't matter whose information it is. It's fucking wrong.
 
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
You might also remember that the Egyptian case triggered a massive national scandal. It's not something the government would want repeated. It's also massively different: it was during the heyday of the post-9/11 hysteria and was likewise for terrorist charges which made the decision legal, although extremely controversial and against the spirit of of the law.

Extraditing Assange on espionage charges would be extremely illegal. We don't extradite people accused of political crimes and we would also need approval from the UK High Court as well to consider extraditing Assange for anything. It's not happening.

Assange is either a paranoid nutjob or a he's using this conspiracy theory to escape justice. Possibly both.


Which is another conspiracy theory. Kelly may very well have been hounded to the point of suicide, but calling it murder is complete conjecture lacking any hard evidence.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.the...d-kelly-man-secrets?client=ms-android-samsung


Defend all you want.

What is not conjecture is the war in Iraq was illegal. There were no WMDs. Hundreds of thousands of people lost their lives because of that war. Hundreds of thousands is low-balling it as well.

That war was all about stealing oil from Iraq and the geo-politics between the evil Saudis, Iran and the West.
 

MisterFalcon

Member
Mar 12, 2013
3,512
648
690
The invasion of Ukraine was illegal and that is proof Russia was behind the DNC leak. Or does it not work that way ?
 
Sep 9, 2012
5,523
0
0
Defend all you want.

What is not conjecture is the war in Iraq was illegal. There were no WMDs. Hundreds of thousands of people lost their lives because of that war. Hundreds of thousands is low-balling it as well.

That war was all about stealing oil from Iraq and the geo-politics between the evil Saudis, Iran and the West.

What does that have to do with anything that poster said? He specifically called out your claim of Kelly's death being a murder a conspiracy theory without proof. The motivations of the Iraq War have nothing to do with that.
 
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
The amount of death caused by the wars the West propagates is astronomical. Death directly from bombs and drones and the soldiers, but countless many more from famine and the poverty it causes. If we didn't intervene, those deaths would not have occurred, it's as simple as that. Hussain was a bad man but he kept the country in order. For much the same reason we can thank Russia that they vetoed any military action by the West in Syria.

Russia gets painted as a great danger to the world, but how many countries have they invaded and wars have they started in the last 20 years? Now compare that to the great US? It's no fucking comparison. Don't give me this bullshit.

Research the 'petrodollar' if you want to learn something about what's really going on here.
 

Already Torn

Banned
Sep 29, 2015
12,213
1
0
I'm kind of disappointed the Clinton's didn't just have Assange assassinated after all those scandals and shit.

The amount of death caused by the wars the West propagates is astronomical. Death directly from bombs and drones and the soldiers, but countless many more from famine and the poverty it causes. If we didn't intervene, those deaths would not have occurred, it's as simple as that. Hussain was a bad man but he kept the country in order. For much the same reason we can thank Russia that they vetoed any military action by the West in Syria.

Russia gets painted as a great danger to the world, but how many countries have they invaded and wars have they started in the last 20 years? Now compare that to the great US? It's no fucking comparison. Don't give me this bullshit.

Research the 'petrodollar' if you want to learn something about what's really going on here.
This is a whole bunch of nonense. Russia invades countries all the time, and influences ones they don't like
They did to the US.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
9
595
Burnaby, BC
The amount of death caused by the wars the West propagates is astronomical. Death directly from bombs and drones and the soldiers, but countless many more from famine and the poverty it causes. If we didn't intervene, those deaths would not have occurred, it's as simple as that. Hussain was a bad man but he kept the country in order. For much the same reason we can thank Russia that they vetoed any military action by the West in Syria.

Russia gets painted as a great danger to the world, but how many countries have they invaded and wars have they started in the last 20 years? Now compare that to the great US? It's no fucking comparison. Don't give me this bullshit.

Research the 'petrodollar' if you want to learn something about what's really going on here.

Crimea?
You know everything that's going on with the Ukraine.
 
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
The invasion of Ukraine was illegal and that is proof Russia was behind the DNC leak. Or does it not work that way ?

Do you actually know about what happened here?

The democratically elected leader of Ukraine, Yanukovych, was on the verge of signing a multi-billion dollar energy deal with Russia. The West didn't like this so backed an illegal military coup to oust him, and hence the war and death again. Research it.

The West, or specifically, the US and it allies, didn't like the idea of Ukraine having closer ties to Russia so he had to go.

What does that have to do with anything that poster said? He specifically called out your claim of Kelly's death being a murder a conspiracy theory without proof. The motivations of the Iraq War have nothing to do with that.

They do as this weapons inspector exposed how the dossiers were sexed up to push through an action of war and invasion in Iraq.
 

Hermii

Member
Sep 17, 2012
6,976
0
0
He knows what a covert operation is right? An operation designed to conceal the identity of who is behind it. Inteligence agencies specializes in this.
 

encephalon

Member
Feb 19, 2010
6,089
1
0
The amount of death caused by the wars the West propagates is astronomical. Death directly from bombs and drones and the soldiers, but countless many more from famine and the poverty it causes. If we didn't intervene, those deaths would not have occurred, it's as simple as that. Hussain was a bad man but he kept the country in order. For much the same reason we can thank Russia that they vetoed any military action by the West in Syria.

Russia gets painted as a great danger to the world, but how many countries have they invaded and wars have they started in the last 20 years? Now compare that to the great US? It's no fucking comparison. Don't give me this bullshit.

Research the 'petrodollar' if you want to learn something about what's really going on here.

Really? Whataboutism is the best you can do?

The democratically elected leader of Ukraine, Yanukovych, was on the verge of signing a multi-billion dollar energy deal with Russia. The West didn't like this so backed an illegal military coup to oust him, and hence the war and death again. Research it.

Hahaha.
 
Sep 9, 2012
5,523
0
0
The amount of death caused by the wars the West propagates is astronomical. Death directly from bombs and drones and the soldiers, but countless many more from famine and the poverty it causes. If we didn't intervene, those deaths would not have occurred, it's as simple as that. Hussain was a bad man but he kept the country in order. For much the same reason we can thank Russia that they vetoed any military action by the West in Syria.

Russia gets painted as a great danger to the world, but how many countries have they invaded and wars have they started in the last 20 years? Now compare that to the great US? It's no fucking comparison. Don't give me this bullshit.

Research the 'petrodollar' if you want to learn something about what's really going on here.

Russia had invaded plenty of countries (see: Ukraine, Georgia) Not only that, they annex them after doing so!

This post is insane.

They do as this weapons inspector exposed how the dossiers were sexed up to push through an action of war and invasion in Iraq.

No, that doesn't make the motivations for the Iraq War relevant in this discussion.
 
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
Crimea?
You know everything that's going on with the Ukraine.

Yeah look at who instigated that whole episode. It weren't Russia.

And that's compared to Iraq, Afghanistan, medling Libya.

That's also compared to the US and allies creating and supplying ISIL, Al Quaeda, El Nusra and other now terrorist groups in a bid to oust so-called despotic Middle-and near Eastern regimes like Hussein, Gadafi, Assad.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
9
595
Burnaby, BC
Yeah look at who instigated that whole episode. It weren't Russia.

And that's compared to Iraq, Afghanistan, medling Libya.

That's also compared to the US and allies creating and supplying ISIL, Al Quaeda, El Nusra and other now terrorist groups in a bid to oust so-called despotic Middle-and near Eastern regimes like Hussein, Gadafi, Assad.

I have no energy for Russian apologists/propagandists, if I did I'd read Glen Greenwald thanks.

And you're an apologist for Assad to boot so.
 

encephalon

Member
Feb 19, 2010
6,089
1
0
Yeah look at who instigated that whole episode. It weren't Russia.

And that's compared to Iraq, Afghanistan, medling Libya.

That's also compared to the US and allies creating and supplying ISIL, Al Quaeda, El Nusra and other now terrorist groups in a bid to oust so-called despotic Middle-and near Eastern regimes like Hussein, Gadafi, Assad.

What news sources would you recommend we follow, if we want to get to the heart of the matter?
 
Sep 9, 2012
5,523
0
0
Yeah look at who instigated that whole episode. It weren't Russia.

And that's compared to Iraq, Afghanistan, medling Libya.

That's also compared to the US and allies creating and supplying ISIL, Al Quaeda, El Nusra and other now terrorist groups in a bid to oust so-called despotic Middle-and near Eastern regimes like Hussein, Gadafi, Assad.

You can have whatever opinions you want about whether the West should have gotten involved in the Middle East, but it is not an opinion to call these people brutal dictators. That is a fact.
 
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
Russia had invaded plenty of countries (see: Ukraine, Georgia) Not only that, they annex them after doing so!

This post is insane.



No, that doesn't make the motivations for the Iraq War relevant in this discussion.

What does the West do then, please enlighten me?

There was a great post war plan for Libya, weren't there? Oh wait. There wasn't. It was just get rid of him and fuck the power vacuum that left.

And Iraq and Afghanistan are doing great now. Oh no daily car bombings for a decade or so, extremist groups vying for power in each country, more terrorists being created.
 
Feb 15, 2013
8,976
7,754
855
London
You absolutely cannot argue the facts.

Millions have died because of the wars, invasions and military coups in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya. Doesn't fucking matter Hussain was a dictator, we went to war not to save the people like the politicians told us, it was to steal their oil. Mugabe is a dictator but we did fuck all about him. That's because he hasn't got any oil. The Saudi princes are dictators, but because we have billion dollar arms trade deals with them they're OK. Come on. Please.

No wonder you people are so easily to manipulate when you eat up without question anything these lying bastard politicians tell you. You make it so easy. It's absolutely your loss. Unbelievable. I'm out.
 

KingBroly

Banned
Mar 18, 2015
23,759
1
0
Somebody was supposed to, I'm just glad somebody finally did.

He had this phone call for a conference or something the day after Castro had died (it was planned before that, mind you). People just want to see him step out onto that Ecuadorian Embassy Balcony to prove his existence to be alive, but...I don't think that'll happen for obvious reasons at this point.

But Assange has been consistent that it wasn't Russia that gave him the info, even before the election. So this idea that this is somehow new news, isn't. The platform where he's revealing it is simply bigger (to the US, at least).
 

encephalon

Member
Feb 19, 2010
6,089
1
0
That's another thing I've noticed, people seem to think that government is the same as the one that charged blindly into Iraq.

I think this is the part where he tells us they're all the same and the battles between Republicans and Democrats are just a charade to throw the wool over our eyes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.