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Just finished Final Fantasy XV: What was this mumbo jumbo?

Isn't this basically what happened? Nomura can't finish a goddamn game and square desperately needed to get XV out so they could move the franchise forward. They gave the pieces to a new director and the team had to make something they could ship out of it.

FWIW I actually very much enjoyed the weird Frankenstein that was XV, warts and all. Enjoyed it far more than XIII, which was polished as fuck but just an absolute slog for me. At least XV let me explore and run around a world with characters I enjoyed.
While people like to blame Nomura for everything, it's not like Tabata delivered FFXV on time nor finished either.
Seem to recall hearing the Versus team having to help FF13 get out the door which is what delayed that so much.
SE's management hasn't been very good in awhile
 
I think XIII-2 is legit a better game than XV.
To be fair, with FFXIII-2 they had a chance to listen to the feedback and directly address FFXIII's criticism while having a finished engine, reusable assets, and a smaller scope. I think and hope that when BD2 works on another FFXV game someday they will be able to improve a lot on FFXV's glaring issues now that they have the engine, experience, and feedback.

I don't know.
As I said.. I enjoyed my time with it so I know it has good things to it.

But the story is crap and feels incomplete , the vast majority of the Sidequests are terrible which in turn makes the world pretty uninteresting (looks nice though) and that's already 2 out of 4 big areas of an rpg (story, world, visuals and gameplay).

Combat isn't bad but lacks variety and more strategic options. It's also really easy and it kinda sucks that as long as you have some potions and 2 or 3 phoneix downs it's literally impossible to lose. I also think it only really works against small and medium enemies but gets pretty bad when fighting large monsters which makes bosses and high level hunts pretty unexciting



I also think one should be able expect more from Final Fantasy. It's mabye unfair but it's one of the biggest Japanese franchises by one of the biggest Japanese studios. It should be a game made to rival The Witcher 3, breath of the wild, Dark Souls.
Instead it feels like the work of a new and inexperienced team
Well, they were. Reading this interview should give you perspective on how huge a task it was for them to make their first open-world, action-based AAA game (it's an unofficial English translation, btw, so keep that in mind):
www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1249074


4Gamer:
What were the reasons you were fixated on having an open world?

Tabata:
"I wonder why it isn't open world?" This is how modern RPG's are thought of by oversea fans. Particularly, FFXV is a game where you travel the world so its normal for people to think it should be an open world.

Formerly, there was an era when FF was at the front line of RPGs. Making FFXV an open world is an easy way to understand modernization. We also aimed to once again return to that front line with FFXV. If we didn't make such a change, it wouldn't be very convincing if we said, "we are competing with Skyrim."

This is why the game will progress alongside the story but we used open world technology to interpret the world. That is one principle I wouldn't bend on.

Nozue:
To exchange opinions with everyone, we went on a small camp and discussed until we were all satisfied.

4Gamer:
When was this?

Tabata:
Right as we merged together with Luminous Studio a few months after announcing FFXV at the 2013 E3. At that point in time, the engineers wouldn't listen and insisted, "With Square Enix's current know-how, an open world is impossible." That trend was especially strong with our foreign engineers.

4Gamer:
As a person who is rooting for Square Enix and the FF series, there is something sad about the words, "an open world is impossible."

Tabata:
That is how low the world thinks our technological skills are. Especially because the first HD game in the Final Fantasy series just so happened to be a linear creation, people started to think, "These guys don't have the technology to make a AAA open world title."

With all that in mind, we distributed the demo and finally got a warm breeze blowing, "What? You guys could make an open world?"

4Gamer:
Even so, "Even if we fail, its okay." That's quite the resignation.

Tabata:
If I hadn't said that the team couldn't have confidence and come together. By saying that, we were able to dynamically manage a seamless world, prepare an environment and the team could relax with the thought, "Even if it sucks Tabata is responsible." However, in the end everyone said they didn't like how empty the field was.

Nozue:
They are really doing their best aren't they. (laughs)

Tabata:
I told them, "I told you it's okay if it's empty." But they reply, "But we don't like that!" (Laughs)

4Gamer:
So your saying, even though they could do it if they tried, they were apposed.

Tabata:
That's because, technologically making an open world in itself is a tremendous task. The current methods for map layout, and loading system are completely different. At first, even I felt, "So this is how you create an open world map." That's the situation we were in and when we look at Grand Theft Auto or Red Dead Redemption, it's normal to think, "Yeah, we can't do that."

4Gamer:
Those are certainty two amazing games...

Tabata:
Well, I understood how they felt. At any rate, we overcame that and technologically learned how to design the map. It's not completely an open world but we were able allow players the experience of a seamless world. When we arrived at that juncture, I was really happy.

4Gamer:
Tabata, did you actually believe that you could make FFXV an open world.?

Tabata:
Of course I did. Technologically our competitors are already doing it and it's not some mysterious skill.

However, faced with new technology, I had doubts of whether the development staff could maintain their best performance until the game was properly completed. From there I firmly created our team, set a goal, and continued to consciously update our progress with a firm stance. In short, I emphasized issues with the mind rather than technology.

4Gamer:
They were getting down on themselves?

Tabata:
First, people look at the things they can't do right? They would say, "If it's an open world quality will go down." Or, "We won't have content for it." Thats why I continued to say, "It's okay if quality drops," and, "An empty world is okay."

4Gamer:
But, actually you had the hope, "They can do it if they try." Didn't you?

Tabata:
Yes, 50% of me hoped. My standpoint for the remaining 50% was, it's okay if it's an empty world. If we can complete it that's enough.

4Gamer:
Being able do think like that for a numbered FF title is shocking.

Tabata:
However, I think I made it clear to the whole team that the "technology" we use, and our level of "content completion" were separate. I wondered if there was a good example and after searching I found Shadow of the Colossus. After showing it, everyone seemed to understand. Of course, I'm not making fun of Shadow of the Colossus by any means. It's because I respect it that I'm using it as an example.

4Gamer:
It's a good example, which goes to show you can make many great games depending on how you make it, even if you don't stuff it full of content. Actually, Shadow of the Colossus had great reviews overseas as well.

Tabata:
You can get a sense of the world just by moving to a destination right? The staff validated the appeal of Shadow of the Colossus. Another example of a game you can experience the world is, The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. If you compare it to games these days, it isn't exactly brimming with content. Even so, you become entranced just running around on a horse in a seamless world.

4Gamer:
At this point in time, is the completed from of FFXV the same as what you thought it would be when you started?

Tabata:
We were able to realize all the parts I thought were a "must have."​
 
Making FF into an action RPG was a mistake.

Story was also garbage (better than XIII's, but that really isn't saying much).

I have zero hype for the FFVII ramake right now.
 
Probably like many others, this was my first final fantasy game. I really enjoyed the time i spent in it, first game i've ever got all achievements for too (Yeah yeah). Music was amazing, characters were likeable but i aint blind from what it lacks either. Story incomplete, lots of areas you couldnt go to. Fuck the flying car too. overall i'd give it at least a 7/10. Not a TERRIBLE game, like, the story what we WERE given was great, just the execution of said story was poor. Movie? Anime? Fuck that, i wanna experience the story fully in game. But hey, the development was a mess so what can i say.
 
I enjoyed it despite the flaws when I played through it, but I have little desire to go back for the DLC after playing Zelda.

The story/narrative is a complete mess.
 
No, seriously. Who was the bad guy here because I don't know. I guess it was Aardyn in the end? I only knew that in the last 3 chapters. There was no buildup.

my favorite part was when he randomly shows up and tickles your girlfriend in ch.9 for no reason

what a crap villain

Mikey Jr. said:
3. Dungeons: Well, these certainly blew. Some were ok, but the ones that were bad were REALLY bad. There was that one where I had to go underground/sewer?, and push buttons to unlock these caged doors. I got so confused on where I had to go. I didn't know where the buttons were, and how to progress. I must have made several loops around the same place. I actually got so frustrated, I reloaded an old save, and went and did a guide for it because I had enough.

Yeah, i wish they had more dungeons like in the old FF games where you mash X on background and never needed to push buttons

Stupid modern games with their redundant design decisions
 
To be fair, with FFXIII-2 they had a chance to listen to the feedback and directly address FFXIII's criticism while having a finished engine, reusable assets, and a smaller scope. I think and hope that when BD2 works on another FFXV game someday they will be able to improve a lot on FFXV's glaring issues now that they have the engine, experience, and feedback.


Well, they were. Reading this interview should give you perspective on how huge a task it was for them to make their first open-world, action-based AAA game (it's an unofficial English translation, btw, so keep that in mind):
www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1249074

God could Tabata be any less ambitious? I now understand why the game is shit. Tabata is a terrible director.

Tabata:
Well, I understood how they felt. At any rate, we overcame that and technologically learned how to design the map. It's not completely an open world but we were able allow players the experience of a seamless world. When we arrived at that juncture, I was really happy.

Tabata:
First, people look at the things they can't do right? They would say, "If it's an open world quality will go down." Or, "We won't have content for it." Thats why I continued to say, "It's okay if quality drops," and, "An empty world is okay."

Tabata:
Yes, 50% of me hoped. My standpoint for the remaining 50% was, it's okay if it's an empty world. If we can complete it that's enough.

Tabata:
You can get a sense of the world just by moving to a destination right? The staff validated the appeal of Shadow of the Colossus. Another example of a game you can experience the world is, The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. If you compare it to games these days, it isn't exactly brimming with content. Even so, you become entranced just running around on a horse in a seamless world.

Tabata:
We were able to realize all the parts I thought were a "must have."

And you expect people to believe you're a world class studio that competes with the likes of Skyrim? Tabata is shit.

Edit: Ok maybe shit and terrible is too harsh. He's certainly not cut out to be leading AAA game development though.
 
God could Tabata be any less ambitious? I now understand why the game is shit. Tabata is a terrible director.



And you expect people to believe you're a world class studio that competes with the likes of Skyrim? Tabata is shit.

Edit: Ok maybe shit and terrible is too harsh. He's certainly not cut out to be leading AAA game development though.
He made Crisis Core, he can't be that bad.
 
I really wanted to love Final Fantasy XV, and for the first few chapters I did. However, once you get to Altissia...whew, does the game take a turn for the worst. I found the battle system generally enjoyable, but as the game goes on, it doesn't open up to more strategy. Basics like magic, summons, and techniques are poorly implemented and wear progression down around the time the game crashes around Chapter 9.

Music is excellent. Nothing more to be said other than it's one of the stronger soundtracks in the series. Yoko Shimomura does not disappoint.

Graphics are generally impressive, but fairly inconsistent. Duscae looks particularly early PS3 in some of the wooded areas. Framerate is a toss up on PS4/Pro because there are so many modes.

Story. I don't get the people who said it went to shit later in the game, because it really never got off to a good start. Just nonsense by the end that I won't even get into.

And honestly, the constant updates and DLC pretty much take a shit on day one players. It's like they released Windows Vista and we're building up to service packs every few months. The game on-disc from release is absolutely an early access game compared to what it is now.
 
This game is laughable.

Hammerhead is so close to the Crown City, yet they are absolutely oblivious. They even take a short ride back to the city and watch it from the border.

The whole road movie feel goes to shit, the map is one big circle and quests simply take you back to the start. Those sidequests are perhaps the worst ever because of the combination with this + MMO tier fetch idiocy. If characters like Dino and Jared get more exposure than some important ones like Ravus then you know you fucked up. And what the fuck, i'm sent on a mission to retrieve royal arms, but then its like err no dude go find Astrals. All royal arms are canonically needed to beat the final boss, yet you only get about half of them during the story. And there is no bonus or extra ending if you have them all. Remember Duscae demo? I swear that Behemoth section was more advanced than it was in the final game.

The soundtrack is great but the game tried everything to make you not hear it. The sound mixing was awful and the music wouldn't kick in for a long time in the field though when I last played it did loop far more. Did they fix this?

The dungeons were kind of hardcore though, with almost no cues and no clear markers they felt like 16 bit era. But you could say out of place in an FFV for fans and first timers.

The combat is shit. I absolutely don't like it. They just gave up and implented some kind of god mode and forced revive into it because its terribly unbalanced and all over the place. Why not go all the way and just give all your health back instead of a tiny portion? You're constantly popping items to restore your bar as constant downed states and one shots are just annoying. Yes, Elixirs are terribly cheap for a reason. Fucking AI doesn't bother to go out of AoE spell range, and about the magic system, the less said the better. Peeps hate gambits? Well...

This should've had a smaller scope, and sidequests around the area you currently are. Not sending you back to fucking hammerhead or the pier for nearly half of them.
 
I actually picked this up in the Xbox Sale, saving it for Xbox One X playthrough. I'm really looking forward to it since I haven't played a JRPG since Lost Odyssey!
 
"Hey, sorry to bother you seeing as your father was just murdered and your kingdom was conquered, but I really need some tomatoes. Can you drive to a store 3 miles away to buy some for me?"

Fuck this shit. The absolute last thing I wanted from Final Fantasy was a ton of generic open-world "run around and collect the shiny dots" fetch quests.
 
XV is kind of a weird game for me in that I've soured on it the longer I've gone since playing it.

The interactions between the bros were so well done and charming that it was honestly enough to keep me feeling positive and upbeat about the game, but now that I'm four months out from having finished it, and memories of that battle system and story start to creep back in.....yheesh it really is kind of bad.
 
I haven't finished the game, but I think the combat is GREAT. Put it on 'wait' mode and it becomes way more tactical and almost turn-based.
 
"Hey, sorry to bother you seeing as your father was just murdered and your kingdom was conquered, but I really need some tomatoes. Can you drive to a store 3 miles away to buy some for me?"

Fuck this shit. The absolute last thing I wanted from Final Fantasy was a ton of generic open-world "run around and collect the shiny dots" fetch quests.

"Hey, sorry to bother you seeing as your love interest was just murdered, but do you wanna go Snowboarding?

"Damn Garnet i know your mom just got bloweded up and all, but i'mma go play cards"
 
Yeah, it was bad. might tie 13-3 for worst ff. I'd take a thousand 13s over this. Straight up nothing redeeming about it outside of the bros dynamic.
 
I haven't finished the game, but I think the combat is GREAT. Put it on 'wait' mode and it becomes way more tactical and almost turn-based.

I wanted to have wait mode on.

But that thing was so annoying to when it came on. Like, I don't move for a milisecond and it flips on.

Wish there was a button I could hold or press, turn it on, do my thing, and turn it off.
 
Its easily the worst mainline FF in pretty much every way.

But, beyond what is presented in the game the absolute worst thing is that we can see what the game was meant to be. Pieces here and there alluding to a coherent vision that could have been very good.

If anything that's what makes it the worst. Squandered potential is infuriatng, far more so than something strictly seen as "bad".

Edit: Not talking about vs13. Just talking about everything surrounding ifrit and ardyn in the past, everything that happened in the 10 year period, the deeper connection between the bro's that only really exists in the brotherhood anime, etc.
 
Yeah, it was bad. might tie 13-3 for worst ff. I'd take a thousand 13s over this. Straight up nothing redeeming about it outside of the bros dynamic.

I do not like XV that much but it gets more credit for not being insultingly linear. How about those chapters in XIII where you don't even gain experience for battles? Good times.

Also, when XIII 'opens up' it's still a joke. It's about the size of one FFXII zone.

Anyway, yeah. I didn't even like the '..b-but road trippin' with your bros!' element to it. I felt like that was already played out before the game even released.
 
"Hey, sorry to bother you seeing as your love interest was just murdered, but do you wanna go Snowboarding?

"Damn Garnet i know your mom just got bloweded up and all, but i'mma go play cards"

Final Fantasy 9 is actually seriously like that and it bothered me about it. In the beginning when Garnet gets kidnapped by a plant, Zidane is making jokes. After a city gets blown up, Zidane is making jokes without a care in the world. That actually bothers me more with FF9 because the story is it's strong point. In FF15, the story is terrible so I was glad the characters ignored it.
 
I do not like XV that much but it gets more credit for not being insultingly linear. How about those chapters in XIII where you don't even gain experience for battles? Good times.

Also, when XIII 'opens up' it's still a joke. It's about the size of one FFXII zone.

Anyway, yeah. I didn't even like the '..b-but road trippin' with your bros!' element to it. I felt like that was already played out before the game even released.

The Road Trip aspect was by far my biggest personal turn off for the game. Made the game feel as boring and tedious as a real life car trip with three obnoxious assholes sitting next to you.
 
Final Fantasy 9 is actually seriously like that and it bothered me about it. In the beginning when Garnet gets kidnapped by a plant, Zidane is making jokes. After a city gets blown up, Zidane is making jokes without a care in the world. That actually bothers me more with FF9 because the story is it's strong point. In FF13, the story is terrible so I was glad the characters ignored it.

The thing is with FF9 though thats part of the reason why most of the cast (esp Steiner) consider Zidane to be an insincere rogue... Because he is.
 
The narrative's execution nuked it for me, same as 13. Unlike 13, though, the groundwork is here for a fascinating story. It's just, like so many modern games, stuff gets blitzed past, there aren't enough cutscenes, it's gogogo back to the game world. It's a shame. I really tried to love it.
 
I liked it, but the pacing felt weird and the story itself didn't meet my 10 year overexpectations.

The last third I felt was handled poorly, just felt like a rush to the end.
 
Game was an astonishing shit show. I have absolutely no idea how anyone could see it as a good video game.

A little off topic but why have we not seen any backlash at Enix for turning this game into FF15? From what I have seen people just ignore the fact that this was supposed to be FF VS13. Enix is soooooooooooo fucking bad at development that they had top rep-brand a game that was not a mainline FF into a main FF title. Why did people allow them to get away with that?
Its a bid deal imo. And definitely the main reason FF15 is absolute garbage.
 
The biggest offender in this game is how bad the combat system(and its general gameplay systems) are.

It didn't even feel good to mash in this game(and that's all you could do anyway).

Camera and Lock on were atrocious.

I mean, Lightning Returns had a garbage story,shoe string budget but it played far,far better.

I expected something better from a mainline FF.
 
After I unlocked Shiva, I hardly ever saw Ramuh again. It was Shiva 90% of the time.

3. Dungeons: Well, these certainly blew. Some were ok, but the ones that were bad were REALLY bad. There was that one where I had to go underground/sewer?, and push buttons to unlock these caged doors. I got so confused on where I had to go. I didn't know where the buttons were, and how to progress. I must have made several loops around the same place. I actually got so frustrated, I reloaded an old save, and went and did a guide for it because I had enough.

Really? I thought Crestholm Channels was a high point of the game. I did it fairly early on and it got my hopes up for things to come. Unfortunately it turned out to be the best normal dungeon in the game with every other dungeon basically being a linear path.

Pitioss was great though. Using a guide would've ruined it.

Combat was really bad. It got much better after unlocking the infinite airstep, but it was still super messy. Story was also embarrassingly bad with how disjointed and unfinished it was. DLC is helping a little bit. Maybe a future director's cut that incorporates all of the DLC into the main game will finally make it passable.
 
I agree with a lot of your points, the story you had to piece together and you wouldn't even know some critical plot points if you didn't read the loading screen messages when going from chapter to chapter.
Also why the hell would a messenger for the gods turn into Shiva. That made zero sense and felt like a cop out almost.

I wish it had more tactical combat but the action did work although it became extremely repetitive. You hit magic on the head though, how incredibly worthless.

The music was on point though. Some pretty good tracks.

Overall it seemed like a great and ambitious game that I did enjoy but ultimately I feel some points were half baked.
 
SPOILERS FOR THE ENTIRETY OF XV IN MY POST.


Please do not try to pass off the story as coherent.

1. How was Drautos able to lead both the Niflheim and Lucian armies? Unexplained.

2. Why is there not a single mention of Luna being an Oracle in Kingsglaive? Unexplained.

3. Why is Luna apparently not able to use magic in Kingsglaive, and yet, in the game, which takes place at the same time, she is able to use magic with and without her trident?

4. What is the actual reason behind the method of communication between Noctis and Luna? It's not like Noctis is hiding from the Empire, considering that there are dropships coming at him every 5 seconds! And why can't Umbra just teleport him to Luna?

5. If Gentiana loves humanity and is the protector of House Fleuret, where the hell was she during all of Kingsglaive and during the Leviathan fight?

6. I'd just like to point out that it bothers me that the game relied on the party's insane naivete, carelessness, and stupidity in order to get them to follow along with Ardyn's plans again and again and again and again.

7. Gladio: hey, Noct I gotta go. Bye!
Noct: ok see u!!! Not gonna question it, just like everything else that happens to me!
then when they're both wearing their space suits
Gladio: tee hee... nice to meet you
Noctis: nice to meet you

8. Camelia: ok, evacuate Altissia before Luna summons Leviathan.

*Luna gives speech*
*Empire comes in 3 seconds later*
*Luna summons Leviathan immediately afterwards*

You're gonna tell me Prompto, Gladio, and Ignis magically evacuated all of Altissia in what is probably less than a couple hours? If even that?

9. Anyone wanna try making any sense of the scene where Niflheim soldiers point their guns at Luna and she shoves them aside? Or can we just say that Tabata wanted to use this idea that he came up with during pre-release to prove that Luna is strong? And couldn't come up with anything that made sense but still wanted to include the scene anyways?

10. Anyone wanna try explaining how the Vesperpool is underwater and not underwater at the same time? How are the party members breathing?

11. Shoddy writing: Ardyn is responsible for absolutely everything and can do everything without getting caught. No background checks, no one keeping track of anyone, nothing! Ardyn can also manipulate time, and regenerate his body parts, and teleport pretty much anywhere, and do anything, because why not?

12. Gods: we hate Ardyn. We need you to defeat him. We don't want him to win. BTW you still need to arbitrarily follow our rule of dying even though that means Ardyn will win.

Regis before the game: ugh... the line of Lucis will end... definitely shouldn't try alleviating this by having my son procreate or anything.

13. When the Regalia is taken away:

Crew: we feel wrong using a car other than the Regalia... so even though the entire world's fate rests on our shoulders and the Empire is destroying everything, let's travel on foot as opposed to using a temporary car, until we find the Regalia, which is conveniently placed in some random military base.

14. Why did Noctis have visions for only Titan and then nothing else?

Forgot a lotttttt of other stuff that doesn't make sense, but yeah.

XV is nothing but piss-poor writing.

It's not just a "simple" plot, it's horribly written, horribly presented, low-budget, and a fucking joke.
Damn.
 
Definitely seems that way. Anyone who can pays the slightest bit of attention shouldn't be that confused.

Like OP really wasn't able to figure out the demon in chapter 13 was the emperor?

They mention it with like a one or two sentences in the middle of the battle. The only reason I realised it was because of the subtitles.

It's awful.
 
I will not touch this game again until we get a complete version, with all the countless story gaps filled

And I dont talk about party members storyy only
 
Tabata:
We were able to realize all the parts I thought were a “must have.”

AKA, when I realized I spent way too much time scrapping everything and making some horribly designed open world that is completely at-odds with the story and had no more time to create new assets, I was able to make sure the story we had were the cliffsnotes of the cliffsnotes of the cliffsnotes of the cliffsnotes of the cliffsnotes of what was originally intended (with plenty of half-assed cop outs like
Gentiana being Shiva
to make this possible of course), so that I'm technically able to say it's finished bc opening, climax, and ending are all included!
 
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