GetemMa
Member
Speed of "move sets"?
are you saying it doesn't let you pull off combo's fast enough?
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Just started Dark Souls 2 after Demon's and what the hell happend to the controls!?
- Thread starter AgentOtaku
- Start date
Speed of "move sets"?
are you saying it doesn't let you pull off combo's fast enough?
Nah, the hitboxes are fine.
But seriously, the game still controls really well. It's definitely different than Demon's Souls, but it's not that different from Dark Souls to me. Except for the roll. Just get used to it, it's great.
It makes a funny gif, but honestly, oddities like this are not common. I've felt like I got sucked into that curse stab on a couple of occasions, but nothing as blatant as that -- I also have been hit by the tree boss's stomp when it seems like I shouldn't have.
Other than those examples, though, I really had no problems with the controls or collisions. At the risk of being a bit off topic, my only real issue with DT2 was the geography/world design completely lacked cohesion or sense of place, which was a hallmark aspect of the previous game.
AgentOtaku
Member
Thats... not cool though
You can also roll to bypass the wait a bit (if you have the stamina to not go empty again from that).
You and half of the rest of the thread aren't getting it. Whether it's 60 fps or 600, the movement will still have this weird gating thing where it strongly prefers 8 directions over all else. Hold the analog stick forward and wiggle it left and right 15 degrees each, then do the same in DeS or DaS and the difference will be immediately apparent.
Dark Souls 2 enemy have magnetic armors and wear roller skates to track you as well.
tracking and hitboxes and animations are just not good in Dark Souls 2.
AwakenedCloud
Member
It's very jarring OP. There's some subtle issues that lead me to believe that the animation model has changed completely. When people were commenting on how the character doesn't seem attached to the floor, I wrote it off thinking it was something only the hardest of the hardcore would notice, but it was apparent to me almost immediately. It's not your character that makes the change obvious, but the enemies.
In this game, enemies no longer seem to follow the same turning rules as they used to. It used to be much easier to get behind enemies for backstabs, but now they seem to be able to turn on a dime and prevent it. Another key change is the jumping. It just looks lazy this time around. There's no lift to it and it almost looks like a placeholder because of it. In addition, the omission of animations that were in the previous games like getting hit with firebombs makes everything else just seem off.
If I was to guess, when they removed the physics model they had in the previous game it altered a lot of the more subtle animations found in the previous Souls games and for whatever reason, be it time or indifference, FROM chose not to address them.
In this game, enemies no longer seem to follow the same turning rules as they used to. It used to be much easier to get behind enemies for backstabs, but now they seem to be able to turn on a dime and prevent it. Another key change is the jumping. It just looks lazy this time around. There's no lift to it and it almost looks like a placeholder because of it. In addition, the omission of animations that were in the previous games like getting hit with firebombs makes everything else just seem off.
If I was to guess, when they removed the physics model they had in the previous game it altered a lot of the more subtle animations found in the previous Souls games and for whatever reason, be it time or indifference, FROM chose not to address them.
It's clearly a glitch or a bug and not representative of how the hit boxes work in general. If the hit boxes were actually like that throughout the game, it would be literally unplayable.
TheJollyCorner
Member
The real Dark Souls starts here.
I don't really care what any individual diagnostic tests would demonstrate. Given the whole, the game feels better to me. And I just finished Dark Souls not too long ago, same with most of my friends as we were all late comers to the PC version (though i played it on 360 and never finished it). It probably the first comment I got from most of my friends when they started playing was how much better the game feels control wise.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Yes, PC feels more responsive. I was addressing the point about the camera control and character control as it pertains to weird deadzones and the feel of the camera and character movement. If he was referring strictly to responsiveness when he mentioned character control then I do agree the PC version improved that dramatically over PS3.
Yes, "gating" is the term I was trying to remember.
AgentOtaku
Member
Nah, the hitboxes are fine.
But seriously, the game still controls really well. It's definitely different than Demon's Souls, but it's not that different from Dark Souls to me. Except for the roll. Just get used to it, it's great.
The OT had someone do a close analysis of this gif. It looks like the sword hit his foot and then the preset animation kicks in.
This doesn't excuse the fact that it looked odd, but it might be an issue of hitboxes that are too good instead of ones that are bad.
Very few other people have experienced this, so it definitely seems to be a special occurrence (which I think supports the foot-hit theory).
Dark Souls 2 enemy have magnetic armors and wear roller skates to track you as well.
tracking and hitboxes and animations are just not good in Dark Souls 2.
Better than DS1 by a mile. People in the OT often complain that the tracking sometimes seems too good.
EDIT: Found the source after going through 50 pages of the OT fruitlessly.
Damage is dealt on the next frame.
polyh3dron
Banned
The one thing I don't like about Dark Souls II hitboxes is that they're almost too good.
eXistor
Member
I took me a good 5 hours to get used to the new controls too. The camera is now completely shitty (PC version here). I can't imagine why they would have even wanted to make it different. I went back to DS1 to see if I wasn't just insane and the camera is so much better and more responsive it's depressing. Not knocking DSII, I very much like the game, but it's just weird to see what were non-issues become issues.
I haven't noticed any major camera issues, but I do imagine that the bigger areas and more dynamic enemies would make it more difficult to reign in the camera. Dark Souls 1 is way more linear in regards to the areas being made up more of straight paths and the enemies having a much smaller leash range.
Nah, the hitboxes are fine.
But seriously, the game still controls really well. It's definitely different than Demon's Souls, but it's not that different from Dark Souls to me. Except for the roll. Just get used to it, it's great.
I'll still take this over the Bed of Chaos.
Deserve it for trying to cheese him with the ballista instead of fighting legit.Nah, the hitboxes are fine.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No the speed of the actual weapons: swing speed and recovery. You haven't played DeS have you?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The devil is in the details (and ignoring him won't make him go away).
There is no legit in Souls. Only YOU DEFEATED or YOU DIED.
There is no legit in Souls. Only YOU DEFEATED or YOU DIED.
SeventhSon
Member
Looks like a clean miss.EDIT: Found the source after going through 50 pages of the OT fruitlessly.
Damage is dealt on the next frame.
But perhaps the game is giving the attacker some "hit box leeway." That might be acceptable if the same leeway was given to the player's attacks. Try using a weapon with a vertical attack, like the greatsword or a greataxe, and, thanks to attacks not staying locked on if you so much as touch the left stick, whiffing constantly by the smallest of margins.
The OT had someone do a close analysis of this gif. It looks like the sword hit his foot and then the preset animation kicks in.
This doesn't excuse the fact that it looked odd, but it might be an issue of hitboxes that are too good instead of ones that are bad.
Very few other people have experienced this, so it definitely seems to be a special occurrence (which I think supports the foot-hit theory).
Better than DS1 by a mile. People in the OT often complain that the tracking sometimes seems too good.
EDIT: Found the source after going through 50 pages of the OT fruitlessly.
Damage is dealt on the next frame.
Interesting analysis. Thanks.
AgentOtaku
Member
Perhaps but yeah, it ended up having the opposite effect which at worst, reminded me of Monster Hunter's now archiac, digitally driven input camera manipulation.
AgentOtaku
Member
Going through that Matthew guy's critique right now and holy shit are there some baffling design choices. lmao @ whoever thought a blood filter is what boss' cinemas needed...
Outright Villainy
Member
Funny you say that as Dark Souls 2 is the only one out of the 3 with fully analogue movement. In Demon's and the first Dark Souls you could only move at 3 different speeds, whereas in 2 there's much more discrete ranges, like a platformer.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Most likely deliberate.
Dark Souls 2 enemy have magnetic armors and wear roller skates to track you as well.
tracking and hitboxes and animations are just not good in Dark Souls 2.
Would you rather is act like Havel in DS1? No visible tracking and then just turn instantly towards you?
jacksepticeye
Member
It does feel a lot sloppier to play alright
That's hardly anything even worth noting and it only appears for a few seconds and then goes away. Besides, it looks more like some evil eyeball POV than actual blood on the screen to me. I don't understand why it's there either but it's really a complete non-issue in the scheme of things. The other points in the video are much more important and relevant.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
I just don't see it from my experience. Been playing this and going back to Dark Souls as well and the transition was fine to me. I also much prefer jumping in DS2 since its now on the stick.
Glad I'm not the only one who notices the bad hit detection this game has.Nah, the hitboxes are fine.
But seriously, the game still controls really well. It's definitely different than Demon's Souls, but it's not that different from Dark Souls to me. Except for the roll. Just get used to it, it's great.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yes. Welcome to the world that I've been living in ever since Dark Souls (1) was launched.
I'm said, multiple times, that the Dark-series have always had less tight controls than Demon's Souls but nooooooooo, I was attacked by GAFers for saying such things. With DkS2, the case is even more obvious so now even the ultimate defender of DkS1 is realizing this.
Basically, here's your solution. It's simple, really. You play Dark Souls 2 on PC, and you'll get the ultimate Demon's Souls-tight ass controls. Including 60fps.
I'm said, multiple times, that the Dark-series have always had less tight controls than Demon's Souls but nooooooooo, I was attacked by GAFers for saying such things. With DkS2, the case is even more obvious so now even the ultimate defender of DkS1 is realizing this.
Basically, here's your solution. It's simple, really. You play Dark Souls 2 on PC, and you'll get the ultimate Demon's Souls-tight ass controls. Including 60fps.
Freezasaurus
Member
I don't think so. It also happened to me during the
Rotten
It may occasionally have some glitchy detection but I can see right now this is going to be the new cry for any time anyone dies and thinks the game is "cheating."
The vast, vast majority of the time when you die in Dark Souls 2 it is still very obvious what mistake you made. That hasn't changed.
TurboLibre
Member
Camera seemed fine to me but everything else felt off. I had a terrible time parrying in this game even though I did it pretty consistently in the original Dark. Never figured out how to riposte either, my guy just attacked like normal every time I parried. Finished the game without ever doing a successful counter, still don't really know if it's even in the game.
The deadzones are extremely annoying when it comes to camera movement. Didn't play Demon's, but definitely noticeable coming from Dark Souls.
Still, you'll get used to it quickly. That are worse things like some hitboxes and the enemies spinning and attacking when they shouldn't have any stamina left.
Still, you'll get used to it quickly. That are worse things like some hitboxes and the enemies spinning and attacking when they shouldn't have any stamina left.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I would love to run around as Ornstein but Smough? Fuck that shit.You were attacked by GAFfers after having a breakdown when you couldn't be O&S
All three games have intentionally different controls.
Nothing went wrong.They need to change things so people have to change how they play.You shouldn't simply play the same exact game three times.
Also , play the PC version as the combat is amazing at 60 FPS.It makes a big difference.
Nothing went wrong.They need to change things so people have to change how they play.You shouldn't simply play the same exact game three times.
Also , play the PC version as the combat is amazing at 60 FPS.It makes a big difference.
I love how people are still quoting the gif talking about how bad the hitbox is. The pic posted above shows the sword clipping the foot.
As far as enemies spinning, well there's not much they could have done. How insanely easy would it be to backstab that turtle knight every time without fail?
As far as enemies spinning, well there's not much they could have done. How insanely easy would it be to backstab that turtle knight every time without fail?
Necromanti
Member
Right. Most of the complaints I've seen about the controls have been because people aren't playing correctly and then wondering why they aren't doing as well as they are used to. There's a learning curve.
You might not like the changes, but being bad at managing stamina in the same way, for one, doesn't make the controls inherently bad. I think a lot of people are coming from having super high Endurance and PvPing in Dark Souls where everything is more spam friendly, while a mistake in DS2 can cost you through stunlocks and such, making it slightly less cheeseable through stats alone.
Don't get me wrong. I myself am still getting used to the delays after, before, and during certain actions when it was simple to just spam Estus in the past or dodge away endlessly. It definitely calls for more caution and strategy. But PvP feels more diverse and enjoyable already.
You do know he'll instantly do a backdrop move if you manage to get behind him, right? You can't backstab him. You can't backstab those old knights either, and they track you.
EDIT: That said, it's not that big of an issue, really, I thought it would be way worse than it is before playing the game.
I completely agree.
The combat is simply harder this time around or at least different enough to guarantee that the old playstyle won't work.
Indeed, chugging estus/grass and rolling away was a bit too convenient in the old games.I was frustrated at first and blamed the controls but the more I played I realized its just different and I should adapt to it.
The end result was really satisfying.
Same thing applies to backstabbing and parrying .They both feel a lot more rewarding because they are appropriately harder to perform consistently.The BlackKnights in dark souls became too easy when it became apparent how easy it is to strafe and backstab.
Except they are at times, coming from both Demon's and Dark Souls 1 it gets hilariously bad at times when the enemy isn't close to you, very noticeable fighting Ruin Sentinels.
Love how it hits him from there...
Oh I'm enjoying pvp quite a bit, but, I'm getting close to that point where its all the same specs thanks to Mr. Soul Memory, not really that interesting to keep rerolling just to pvp in a decent SM range. Why they don't just dump SM for NG+ and go by SL is puzzling to me.
Dark Souls 2 enemy have magnetic armors and wear roller skates to track you as well.
tracking and hitboxes and animations are just not good in Dark Souls 2.
They do this in all 3 games. why are you pointing that out as something new?
as an easy example, the skeletons in world 4 in demon's souls
sankt-Antonio
Banned
Havent played DSII yet, but i felt this same sensation when i booted up DSI for the first time. DeSo felt much tighter control wise and i would get delayed button presses in DSI wich i never got in DeSo.