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[btf1980]

Prosthetic hands are garbage. You're not picking up a basketball again, you're not performing any delicate tasks, you're not even playing video games anymore (gasp!). Legs have become much better, but even then you need to be sitting on a lot of money to have anything capable of returning an active person to anything close to what they're accustomed to.

Heaven forbid you don't play any videogames. I'd love to continue having sex with women and maybe start a family some day. It might not be the goal of everyone, but I'd rather have one arm and a dick, than be an awesome basketweaver and gamer who for the rest of his life would never get laid, be able to piss without a tube up my urethra or f'kin procreate. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[Cosmic Dreams]

make-up really helped there. could've never guessed. :lol

 

[Jenga]

Heaven forbid you don't play any videogames. I'd love to continue having sex with women and maybe start a family some day. It might not be the goal of everyone, but I'd rather have one arm and a dick, than be an awesome basketweaver and gamer who for the rest of his life would never get laid, be able to piss without a tube up my urethra or f'kin procreate. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

you could play one handed mouse games

PC MASTER RACE WINS AGAIN

 

[Locke]

One thing I don't understand is the whole "identifying" with one gender or another. What does that even mean. Beyond the physical differences, is there really such a large mental difference, or is it just how people perceive men and women.

What I'm trying to ask is if there is a physical or scientific difference (beyond the obvious boys have penises and girls have vaginas) in our brain make ups.

For example, if you raised a boy in a bubble to act like a girl, would his mind automatically rebel and would he decide he likes tonka trucks instead of barbies? I have never understaood this, as I have always assumed our gender identities are TAUGHT by our upbringing and surroundings.

So are you (mentally) born a boy or a girl, or do you decide at some point that you idenfity with the SOCIAL stereotypes that go along with the label?

Keep in mind that this post or question has nothing to do with sexual preference, only with IDENTITY, which gets touted a lot as a seperate entity.

 

[DY_nasty]

Heaven forbid you don't play any videogames. I'd love to continue having sex with women and maybe start a family some day. It might not be the goal of everyone, but I'd rather have one arm and a dick, than be an awesome basketweaver and gamer who for the rest of his life would never get laid, be able to piss without a tube up my urethra or f'kin procreate. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

How much more clearly do I need to label sarcasm? (GASP!) Come the fuck on :lol

And you don't need a dick do any of those things. Sex is just sex. You don't need a dick to start a family.

If I want to go hunting, I'm not doing it with a prosthetic arm. I'm not playing basketball. I'm not boxing. I'm not drawing. Things that I do all the time, I can't do because with even the best prosthetics its impossible to do. So what, I just have sex all the time? Sex isn't that important.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

He looks white, he wants to be white (whether that's because of the abuse and taunts from his father isn't really relevant or proven) and in the end he ends becoming an eccentric, white pop-artist with zany habits and wishes. This is just my personal opinion, he just strikes me as a white person - his genes (which themselves are barely relevant to racial identity) aren't even relevant to me.



That is something I fully agree with, you don't enter a relationship where trust and honesty are the most important things without mentioning something as important as you not being biologically male/female and thus might not be able to fulfill certain dreams (such as getting biologically related kids) their partner might have.


Furry.

no he bleached his skin because he had vitiligo. You want the man on stage with blots of white skin all over his black face?

 

[RustyNails]

Heaven forbid you don't play any videogames. I'd love to continue having sex with women and maybe start a family some day. It might not be the goal of everyone, but I'd rather have one arm and a dick, than be an awesome basketweaver and gamer who for the rest of his life would never get laid, be able to piss without a tube up my urethra or f'kin procreate. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

The most commonly castrated men are advanced prostate cancer patients. In the United States alone there are more than 200,000 new cases of prostate cancer diagnosed each year. It is estimated that over 80,000 of these men will be surgically or chemically castrated within six months of diagnosis.[37]

Oh noes, these people have no hope if I were them I'd kill myself

 

[btf1980]

How much more clearly do I need to label sarcasm? (GASP!) Come the fuck on :lol

And you don't need a dick do any of those things. Sex is just sex. You don't need a dick to start a family.

If I want to go hunting, I'm not doing it with a prosthetic arm. I'm not playing basketball. I'm not boxing. I'm not drawing. Things that I do all the time, I can't do because with even the best prosthetics its impossible to do. So what, I just have sex all the time? Sex isn't that important.

Again, your opinion, but I'd manage with one arm. tyvm.

 

[Blackace]

new-halfs as they are called here are in style right now on TV.. it is really odd to see it be so normal.. I think it is pretty cool.

 

[RustyNails]

One thing I don't understand is the whole "identifying" with one gender or another. What does that even mean. Beyond the physical differences, is there really such a large mental difference, or is it just how people perceive men and women.

What I'm trying to ask is if there is a physical or scientific difference (beyond the obvious boys have penises and girls have vaginas) in our brain make ups.

For example, if you raised a boy in a bubble to act like a girl, would his mind automatically rebel and would he decide he likes tonka trucks instead of barbies? I have never understaood this, as I have always assumed our gender identities are TAUGHT by our upbringing and surroundings.

So are you (mentally) born a boy or a girl, or do you decide at some point that you idenfity with the SOCIAL stereotypes that go along with the label?

Keep in mind that this post or question has nothing to do with sexual preference, only with IDENTITY, which gets touted a lot as a seperate entity.

There's lot of information on Wikipedia about this stuff in the Eunuch topic. It gets really complex.

 

[btf1980]

Oh noes, these people have no hope if I were them I'd kill myself

...

In that period, the team saw a 90 percent increase in the risk of suicide among men diagnosed with prostate cancer compared with men in the general population.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61162M20100202

Many men don't want to go on after that, so yup.

 

[Deeku]

Nozomi Sasaki better not be a man.

 

[mollipen]

One thing I don't understand is the whole "identifying" with one gender or another. What does that even mean. Beyond the physical differences, is there really such a large mental difference, or is it just how people perceive men and women.

Well, as one of the question I asked earlier in this thread: do you think you'd feel exactly the same if you woke up tomorrow and had a body the was the opposite sex of the body you have now?

Some personality traits are social constructs, some are by nature tied to one sex or the other, and some are the connection between your mental/emotional gender and your physical sex.

For example, if you raised a boy in a bubble to act like a girl, would his mind automatically rebel and would he decide he likes tonka trucks instead of barbies? I have never understaood this, as I have always assumed our gender identities are TAUGHT by our upbringing and surroundings.

I don't think it's all taught. When you have very, very young children who say they should have been born the opposite sex, I don't think you can chalk that up simply to having been taught what gender they're supposed to be (since gender identity isn't seriously heavy at that age).

Not that I have any examples to link to, but I've read various stories along the lines of exactly what you said: a person rebelling at a young age against the gender that was being forced on them because they directly identified with the other. Of course, they were stories related to being transgender, so it would be for example a young boy wanting to play with dolls over trucks because he had the feelings of being a girl and that was what his instincts drove him to.

So are you (mentally) born a boy or a girl, or do you decide at some point that you idenfity with the SOCIAL stereotypes that go along with the label?

Depends on the person and situation. I'm sure for some people, as I mentioned before, it is simply a question of previously feeling constrained by social pressures. Hell, you could find plenty of examples of men who want to be a cook or a nurse or whatever, but don't because in their environment those things may not be seen as masculine. On the other hand, you have children who are still too young to fully understand the separations between the genders saying they were born one way but are supposed to be the other.

 

[Platy]

1- Good for her !

2-

I wasn't terribly familiar with Satoh before this story, so I'm curious about a lot of things. In saying she's "all natural", does that mean she's not only had no plastic surgery, but also no hormones? If she's not done hormones of any kind, then fuck has nature been kind to her (in regards to allowing her to live the way she wants to).

I'm guessing by "all natural" she meant no plastic surgery .... most drugstore hormones are natural .... i heard some creepy stories about female horses pregant piss becoming birthday control drugs.

And even if it is an artificial hormone ... getting fat from eating mcdonalds don't make your belly less natural =P

3-

Banned words\phrases:

1. Racist vocabulary (Nigger, Kike, Jap, Chink, Frog so on..)
2. "Fag", "Faggot", "That's gay!" -- This is not middle school. NeoGAF has a sizable gay community, and if that bothers you, go somewhere else.
3. Misogynistic remarks or jokes.
4. Statements derogatory to transgendered people. Note: calling someone/thing a "trap" is included in this notation.

Serious question here...calling a person a "thing" isn't bannable or the faq don't enter their own rules ?

4-

So saying that my penis is part of me as a man means I'm fixated on my penis? What man doesn't think his penis is part of him? Don't feel sad for me because I like my penis & would prefer for it to be there at all times.

You are saying that your penis is part of yourself as a man ... but your arm and your leg is not part of youself as a person/man
Wich makes me think that you might as well live with only your head futurama style AND your penis.

5-
This thread makes me sad and this is exactly the reason why there is no Poison on Street Figther 4/Marvel vs Capcom 3 =/

---edit

One thing I don't understand is the whole "identifying" with one gender or another. What does that even mean. Beyond the physical differences, is there really such a large mental difference, or is it just how people perceive men and women.

What I'm trying to ask is if there is a physical or scientific difference (beyond the obvious boys have penises and girls have vaginas) in our brain make ups.

For example, if you raised a boy in a bubble to act like a girl, would his mind automatically rebel and would he decide he likes tonka trucks instead of barbies? I have never understaood this, as I have always assumed our gender identities are TAUGHT by our upbringing and surroundings.

So are you (mentally) born a boy or a girl, or do you decide at some point that you idenfity with the SOCIAL stereotypes that go along with the label?

Keep in mind that this post or question has nothing to do with sexual preference, only with IDENTITY, which gets touted a lot as a seperate entity.

Brain is a sexual organ as much as your penis.... and like your penis, if it don't receive enoght testosterone it will become a female organ. And yes, they are physicaly diferent.

Kids play with what they are giving ... toys are a social assumption, the gender of brain is more related to other stuff ... think of when humans lived in caves and stuffs like that.
Think of it as a sexual role in society. Affeminate gay men usualy have female sexual role and stuff. I know most of then wanted to play with barbies even if their parents gave then a wolverine evil angry toy.

I'm not in the mood of googling it, but there was a classic news/book/research about a boy who had a problem with cirucinsion or something like what when he was VERY little and the crazy doctor asked the parents to rise him as a girl, including hormones and stuff.
I'm not sure if it was right after or before they told him the story... but he killed himself at 20 years or something.

 

[btf1980]

You are saying that your penis is part of yourself as a man ... but your arm and your leg is not part of youself as a person/man
Wich makes me think that you might as well live with only your head futurama style AND your penis.

Dude, you're reaching.

 

[Technosteve]

he's pretty awful at street fighter less cheese more combos sir.

 

[Busaiku]

Very pretty.
I wouldn't have guessed otherwise.

It's nice to know that some fictional characters aren't so out there any more.

 

[Locke]

Well, as one of the question I asked earlier in this thread: do you think you'd feel exactly the same if you woke up tomorrow and had a body the was the opposite sex of the body you have now?

Some personality traits are social constructs, some are by nature tied to one sex or the other, and some are the connection between your mental/emotional gender and your physical sex.

Of course I would feel the same, I've been living as a man for 26 years. I don't think that example works as well as you think it does.

Can you list some personality traits you feel are "tied" to one sex or the other? Do you think these ties are inherent, or learned.

I don't think it's all taught. When you have very, very young children who say they should have been born the opposite sex, I don't think you can chalk that up simply to having been taught what gender they're supposed to be (since gender identity isn't seriously heavy at that age).

This I do not agree with at all. From the moment we are born, we are surrounded by gender specific clothes, toys, decoration etc. Boys and girls are even treated differently by parents, even at a VERY young age.

On the other hand, you have children who are still too young to fully understand the separations between the genders saying they were born one way but are supposed to be the other.

Again, children may be too young to understand the difference in genetalia, but even for very young children, it isn't hard to see that 50% of the population wears pink PJ's and 50% wears blue. That is obviously a very simplistic example, but you get my point.

What I am really wanting to know, and maybe this is too much of a hypothetical is what would happen if all the social constraits were stripped away. Is it truly impossible to conceive of a society where gender roles were reversed? Is that something that is purely fiction, and could never happen? Where men were idolized for being demure, pretty, etc. and women prided upon being physically strong and agressive?

If you think this scenario is possible, it is hard to argue that gender identities are anything but social constructs that we have perpetuated generation after generation.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

ITT people refer to her using masculine pronouns and think it's particularly clever.

:/

 

[MYE]

I'd rather lose my dick than lose arm or leg...

U MAD? :lol

 

[DY_nasty]

U MAD? :lol

...?

 

[Nameless]

Well, as one of the question I asked earlier in this thread: do you think you'd feel exactly the same if you woke up tomorrow and had a body the was the opposite sex of the body you have now?

Some personality traits are social constructs, some are by nature tied to one sex or the other, and some are the connection between your mental/emotional gender and your physical sex.

It's cheating posing hypothetical which isn't possible. I mean what if you woke up tomorrow as a bear? What would you be? Certainly not a man. If I woke up tomorrow as a woman it wouldn't matter how I felt or with which sex I identified. If a guy shot me with sperm I would get pregnant. If somebody killed me and dumped my body 20 miles in the woods, only for it to be discovered 35 years later, forensics would say they found the body of a woman. My Estrogen level would be higher than the night before--I'd also have a different chromosome. I'd menstruate. I'd be at risk for cervical cancer. I would be a woman.

Don't get me wrong I understand where you're coming from and everything you're saying. And I firmly believe people should be able to live whatever lifestyle makes them comfortable. More power to the man in the OP-- but to call that person a woman equates to nothing more than a false statement.

 

[Jenga]

I mean what if you woke up tomorrow as a bear? .

my dream ;_;

 

["God's Beard!"]

Of course I would feel the same, I've been living as a man for 26 years. I don't think that example works as well as you think it does.

Can you list some personality traits you feel are "tied" to one sex or the other? Do you think these ties are inherent, or learned.




This I do not agree with at all. From the moment we are born, we are surrounded by gender specific clothes, toys, decoration etc. Boys and girls are even treated differently by parents, even at a VERY young age.



Again, children may be too young to understand the difference in genetalia, but even for very young children, it isn't hard to see that 50% of the population wears pink PJ's and 50% wears blue. That is obviously a very simplistic example, but you get my point.

What I am really wanting to know, and maybe this is too much of a hypothetical is what would happen if all the social constraits were stripped away. Is it truly impossible to conceive of a society where gender roles were reversed? Is that something that is purely fiction, and could never happen? Where men were idolized for being demure, pretty, etc. and women prided upon being physically strong and agressive?

If you think this scenario is possible, it is hard to argue that gender identities are anything but social constructs that we have perpetuated generation after generation.

More science, less philosophical posturing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

 

[mollipen]

It's cheating posing hypothetical which isn't possible.

The point is to get a person to actually start thinking about what's going on here, and not be stuck on using genitalia as a hard and fast rule for what gender a person is. The point of the question is to ask if a change in your body would change who you are inside, which obviously it wouldn't, and thus your physical sex and your mental/emotional gender are different.

I mean what if you woke up tomorrow as a bear?

Except that isn't something that could be possible. Obviously waking up tomorrow with a different body isn't either, but the concept behind what is being discussed is something that at least some of us are arguing is.

If I woke up tomorrow as a woman it wouldn't matter how I felt or with which sex I identified. If a guy shot me with sperm I would get pregnant. If somebody killed me and dumped my body 20 miles in the woods, only for it to be discovered 35 years later, forensics would say they found the body of a woman. My Estrogen level would be higher than the night before--I'd also have a different chromosome. I'd menstruate. I'd be at risk for cervical cancer. I would be a woman.

So you have so little regard and/or respect for who you are as a person that you're okay with saying that?

 

[Blackace]

...?

:/

it's like that odd guy trying to speak "ghetto" at a college party so he can communicate with you better..

 

[DryEyeRelief]

he's pretty awful at street fighter less cheese more combos sir.

wow you really want attention

 

[The Frankman]

:/

it's like that odd guy trying to speak "ghetto" at a college party so he can communicate with you better..

I've seen that happen in the workplace, guy comes up to a black guy and goes "Whazzup bro?" Dude looks at him and walks away, shaking his head.

 

[DY_nasty]

I've seen that happen in the workplace, guy comes up to a black guy and goes "Whazzup bro?" Dude looks at him and walks away, shaking his head.

Yeah. Sometimes people try too hard... this one guy came up to me asking about something, started off with "Yo son" and I was just too taken back to even begin to think of giving him a rational answer.

 

[Beardz]

The point is to get a person to actually start thinking about what's going on here, and not be stuck on using genitalia as a hard and fast rule for what gender a person is.

Then, why a lot of transgenders chop their penis?

 

[Platy]

Then, why a lot of transgenders chop their penis?

Because they hate it, not because it is what defines then.

We are talking about the brain, not the rest.

And by somepeople logic here .... it would not matter to cut, since "had at one moment of life" is the same as "still having" or something.
So easier to judge by the brain =P

-------------------edit

I'd say that having a Y chromosome is a defining feature of being male.

already posted, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
Born female, developed female, female gender identity, female sexual organ, female secondary sexual characteristics....

I'd say having a Y chromosone is a defining feature of being a person with Y chromosome.

One of the defining features of being male, but not the only.

 

[agrajag]

I'm point out that your "it has a dick thus it's a guy" rule isn't exactly the end-all be-all rule.

I'd say that having a Y chromosome is a defining feature of being male.

 

[Shanadeus]

I'd say that having a Y chromosome is a defining feature of being male.

Yes, but it's not a defining feature of being a man.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

he's pretty awful at street fighter less cheese more combos sir.

this post sounds like penis envy lol

Kayo police is good


she is no Dashio or Uryo or kyabetsu but her viper is ace.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yea...I'd smash her no questions asked.

 

[Blackace]

Yea...I'd smash her no questions asked.

dude, I don't even know how to tell that you can find a better looking person in a starbucks here everyday...

and most of them were born without a penis

 

[agrajag]

Yes, but it's not a defining feature of being a man.

if you're using man in the sex sense, then yes it is. See how imprecise our terminology is? For many of us a person's sex is an irreconcileable factor that cannot be ignored.

 

[PhoenixDark]

dude, I don't even know how to tell that you can find a better looking person in a starbucks here everyday...

and most of them were born without a penis

True but I'm just saying, if she propositioned me I'd say "yes, just don't touch my ass"

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Yea...I'd smash her no questions asked.

aren't you an 'honorary' member of gay gaf?

 

[Blackace]

aren't you an 'honorary' member of gay gaf?

well the Zelda music didn't work out with the females, butt...

 

[RustyNails]

:/

it's like that odd guy trying to speak "ghetto" at a college party so he can communicate with you better..

Honestly speaking, "U MAD?" needs to go away or needs to be confined to high schools only. It adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and only seeks to further deteriorate a situation.

Please make it bannable

 

[Imm0rt4l]

well the Zelda music didn't work out with the females, butt...

:lol

 

[Replicant]

aren't you an 'honorary' member of gay gaf?

This is a false statement.

Most gay gaf wouldn't touch her because she looks like a girl. Gay guys like men. PhoenixDark is attracted to her because she has feminine qualities.

 

[Nameless]

The point is to get a person to actually start thinking about what's going on here, and not be stuck on using genitalia as a hard and fast rule for what gender a person is. The point of the question is to ask if a change in your body would change who you are inside, which obviously it wouldn't, and thus your physical sex and your mental/emotional gender are different.

You're wrong. A change of gender doesn't simply denote a [singular] "change in your body". There's numerous physiological, biological and chemical difference between men & women. In conjunction with social & environmental factors. genetics and innate 'wiring', it all comes together shape who we are. That's not something that's debatable. A more fitting scenario to for us to consider be one in which we had been born the opposite gender. In that case I can guarantee that each of our lives would have been fundamentally different than they are right now. It all goes much further than genitalia. By your logic we should all be bi-sexual because it's merely what's on the inside that counts and gender is just an arbitrary form of categorization.

Except that isn't something that could be possible. Obviously waking up tomorrow with a different body isn't either, but the concept behind what is being discussed is something that at least some of us are arguing is.

A man is just as possible as a man becoming a woman--and no, all of the cosmetic and chemical alterations in the world make men, women.

So you have so little regard and/or respect for who you are as a person that you're okay with saying that?

Recognizing what I am and how what I am has shaped my life is having respect for myself as a person.

 

[Shanadeus]

if you're using man in the sex sense, then yes it is. See how imprecise our terminology is? For many of us a person's sex is an irreconcileable factor that cannot be ignored.

Then I propose we use the terms "biologically male/female" for sex and "man(guy, male)/woman(girl, female)" for gender.

There!
No confusion or problems.

 

[PhoenixDark]

She has no ass, which is a problem. And no boobs...but she fine.

 

[Vox-Pop]

C'mon guys, she's not that skinny.

 

[agrajag]

Then I propose we use the terms "biologically male/female" for sex and "man(guy, male)/woman(girl, female)" for gender.

There!
No confusion or problems.

Why do you want to make it less convenient for people who use the words in the biological sense?

 

[Jintor]

Awesome. Power to her.

 

[Shanadeus]

Why do you want to make it less convenient for people who use the words in the biological sense?

Because most people don't use those words in the biological sense, hence this whole theory about gender identity etc.