Yeah missed that part, sorry.
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Keep it classy Korea. Some Korean establishments banning Japanese.
- Thread starter ChiTownBuffalo
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Yeah missed that part, sorry.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
Wow, that's really sad that this kind of stuff still goes on. I remember talking to my Korean Uncle about Japan and he had very string feelings that they should apologize for the occupation and give them dokdo. But other than that I've never got any other perspective from the Korean side.
I also found this rather interesting:
"Japans Ministry of Internal Affairs says over 70 percent of Japanese inns and hotels that didnt have foreign guests last year dont want any in the future either. The ministry says that a survey of such businesses showed they feel unable to support foreign languages and that their facilities are not suited to foreigners. The survey released Thursday shows that over 60 percent of Japans inns and hotels had foreign guests last year, but the majority of the rest dont want any."
It really can't be that hard to serve us
"Japans Ministry of Internal Affairs says over 70 percent of Japanese inns and hotels that didnt have foreign guests last year dont want any in the future either. The ministry says that a survey of such businesses showed they feel unable to support foreign languages and that their facilities are not suited to foreigners. The survey released Thursday shows that over 60 percent of Japans inns and hotels had foreign guests last year, but the majority of the rest dont want any."
It really can't be that hard to serve us
They're not relying on stereotypes. They're relying on experience with the only foreigners they've ever met. Unfortunately the only foreigners some of those places may ever encounter are drunk russian sailors, US army/navy personnel, etc
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yes, you have a point. And it's of course the same for Koreans against Japanese (I would almost argue: moreso. They have the stronger grudge, re: 50 years of occupation).
Long story short, in my odd life I hear a lot of Koreans talking shit about Japanese, and a lot of Japanese talking shit about Koreans.
Usually it feels less sinister.... like the rivalry between Canada and America but intensified through bad history, being monocultures not prone to understanding other's ways, etc.... It's not often total dehumanization... but I'm sure that does happen too.....
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Sounds like a copout. So no Japanese customers are like that and all foreigners are like that? The government is failing its people by allowing this sort of domestic behavior to represent its citizens on the world stage.
Niiiice, defending racism.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah I agree that it's inexcusable. It's a poor ideology to discriminate like that.
But it's not really the case that all people in every culture are equally prone to certain behaviors. I mean... it's just a fact: Japanese culture encourages people to behave in certain ways, and foreigners do not behave in these ways, which causes conflicts.
I would argue that they shouldn't discriminate, as a policy. But as a matter of fact: yes, outsiders probably will act differently in certain ways.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Also, I little knowledge dropped on me by my Chinese and Japanese roommate a few years back that blue my mind. Asians have this extremely racist hierarchical balance: Japanese, Chinese and Koreans hate each other generally because of various (often war-related) events in their shared past. Then they dropped the bomb: These three races view any other Asian race as below them both figuratively and literally and refer to them as the "dirty south" (partly due to their darker complexion). I wanted to break down when I heard that.
I understand and agree that foreigners will act differently than natives in many situations but to ascribe all the negative attributes of interaction to foreigners and the positive ones to natives seems lopsided. I mean, aren't the purpose of laws in policies to set the boundaries of socially acceptable behavior for all people be it a foreigner or native?
I understand and agree that foreigners will act differently than natives in many situations but to ascribe all the negative attributes of interaction to foreigners and the positive ones to natives seems lopsided. I mean, aren't the purpose of laws in policies to set the boundaries of socially acceptable behavior for all people be it a foreigner or native?
RedNumberFive
Banned
Hokkaido is full of theseAt least near the big harbor towns/cities, I guess they don't like Russians. Same goes for Tokyo and other big cities that have those No Gaijin signs. Not that this justifies this bull shit.
Yup, fuck em'! It took me way too long to find a good place to drink in Tokyo because of shit like this.
No, and I would love to be able to visit these bars, pay and act in the same way Japanese people do as I always do. But earlier in the thread it was suggested that the entire culture is changed (charging up front for drinks etc instead of a tab) to suit these annoying drunks - that is not the solution.
Now who's stereotyping? As someone who works in a Japanese company with several very popular Thai and Phillipino employees I find that comment pretty outrageous.
Ravensmash
Member
I also found this rather interesting:
"Japans Ministry of Internal Affairs says over 70 percent of Japanese inns and hotels that didnt have foreign guests last year dont want any in the future either. The ministry says that a survey of such businesses showed they feel unable to support foreign languages and that their facilities are not suited to foreigners. The survey released Thursday shows that over 60 percent of Japans inns and hotels had foreign guests last year, but the majority of the rest dont want any."
It really can't be that hard to serve us
One thing that really puts me off wanting to ever visit somehow/puts me off Japan, the xenophobic culture that seems to emanate.
What is the general consensus about Americans of Japanese descent? Is that a double whammy? hehe
Depending on your attitude, you can definitely be ostracized by Japanese society just because you're different.
Bony Manifesto
Member
That really doesn't justify it at all...
Would you be understanding of a "No Coloreds" sign in a shop, as long as the owner has had bad experiences with black people in the past?
There's three replies to me along these lines so I'm just picking one at random - I wasn't justifying it - I was explaining that it was based on experience rather than stereotypes i.e it wasn't that Japanese people though "Ok, we know all foreigners are troublemakers so we'll never let them in!" it was that they initially let foreigners in and every single time one came in they wrecked the place, didn't pay and caused fights. It's unfair and thankfully illegal to discriminate against well meaning foreigners on these grounds, but I hope you can at least see the reasoning behind what happened and that it wasn't because the people had some evil grudge against filthy gaijin from birth.
Ravensmash
Member
Is this part of Japanese culture a big thing amongst the population? Is it confined to the older generation or are the young equally as dismissive of foreign people? Do you think there will be progress as that generation grows up further?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah.. there is an unconscious chain of superiority. Koreans and Japanese see themselves as on top (depends on which nation you ask). Then Chinese. Then south-east Asians and the other darker ones. A super-racist "great chain of being". As you say: War related. 100 years ago, ALL nations were racist as hell (white nations probably worse), and Japan colonizing Asia had the effect of spreading their self-superiority over nations who simultaneously hate them and took their ideas of eastern most Asian superiority to heart (even if that was unconscious).
But as this topic was about Korea and Japan, I felt the de-humanization was slightly less of a factor. They're both nearly at the top.... in that racist hierarchy.
And just to break this all up... I know Koreans and Japanese who think this is all small-minded crap. Don't forget them.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Trust me, not sure how you read that comment but it doesn't reflect my views (I thought it was obvious). I naively assumed that Asian people facing the same sorts of discrimination in western cultures were united until they told me this. They being American-born and living under the same roof didn't believe it either but it seems that this is what they heard from first generation. I mentioned it to show just how deeply seed the racism is amongst Asians.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I will vouch for you.
Even if we leave the word "racism" out of it just for arguments sake: the super-super-nationalism and rivalry between Asian nations cannot be understated.
Bony Manifesto
Member
That happened "every single time" did it? Come on...
And I presume that means you would be understanding of a "No Coloreds" sign under the same circumstances.
Yeah, please don't forget them..
..after all, they are the goddam majority. Jesus. Wake up me up when there's a thread on the US' opinion of China sourced by 4chan posters, people from the south and tea party Conservatives.
Weirdly, American-Asians seem to be the main source of this kind of thing. I guess that's more evidence of how the melting pot failed.
I don't know what I was thinking. I'm out.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Right. I agree.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm white and I can tell... 99% of the time. (I know, I know.. jokes)
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
notsureifserious.gif
You can 90% tell. Always.
Well not you. But Asian identification seems like the least of your issues.
This is an interesting point actually because - in a homogeneous society like Japan (or I suppose Korea) - nationality and ethnicity are intrinsically linked. Unlike other countries where anyone can be American, or British, no one can ever become Japanese. If you are pro-Japan, you are pro-Japanese people. Whereas, for someone from America, being pro-USA doesn't make them a White Supremacist or something. This is the high line of the murky water.
Wut
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Good point.
But consider that countries like Japan and Korea are proudly monocultures. They never said they wanted to be a place for all people. They're not a multi-cultural mosaic or melting pot.
And that, too, directly implies "not one of us". They aren't aspiring in the slightest to include everyone.
Japan is for Japanese and Korea is for Koreans.. So why wouldn't they treat those who are not of their country "different" in some way?
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Yeah, pretty much two sides of the same coin:
- Nazis and German Nationalism
- Eastern Europe and Ethnic Cleansing
- The Congo genocides
- KKK and American Nationalism
- Israeli/Palestinian Conflict
- Many, many more
It all makes you feel a little hopeless. I mean, history has shown us how bad this can get if allowed to fester. The governments are fostering a very dirty situation for future generation by allowing these sorts of things to happen.
Do S. Korea and Japan have constitutions of some sorts to protect people from this kind of hate even when it's not the popular thing to do?
Lol. Sorry to burst your bubble, but not all of Texas is a bastion of liberal acceptance.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Japan is fast approaching a situation where they have to address the idea of immigration head-on. They they're just wacky enough to build baby-making robots before they grant immigrants full citizenships.
I'm well aware. It's called a joke about stereotypes
Yes, those are all apt comparisons, lol. You forgot Saddam Hussein and a few others, though.
Japan, at least, has something called the law which stops people being discriminated against based on race. If you see a no foreigners sign (which is ridiculously unlikely in a city with a population over 500 despite some of the posts in this thread claiming the contrary) you can and will successfully be able to sue them, as a man of certain infamy regularly does.
Clubs are a bit dodgy on the other hand because you're at the mercy of a bouncer who has the right to refuse you for whatever the hell reason they want. If you've ever encountered one, which I imagine most people have, you'll know they're paid to discriminate (clothes, shoes, hairstyle, age, etc). For a Japanese bouncer, a foreigner coming in with no Japanese friends is the easiest "potential troublemaker" you could ever spot.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Totally right. That would be a solution to many of their problems. And yet, I wonder if they will manage to avoid that question, even as their economy suffers. I think I've got a pretty good grasp of the Japanese self-image, and it involves a particularly special view of their culture that should never be eroded.
But who knows.. Revolutions of various forms can happen quickly, if we look to history.
Things have already gotten better and they will continue to do so.
Team Jones
Member
THIS CAN'T BE REAL LIFE!
It was a bad one.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm not gonna suggest Germany and France (etc) always love each other... but it's a significantly simmered conflict between Japan and Korea, and it was exactly the same length of time ago since occupation!
Though 50 years of Japanese occupation of Korea was a pretty long, brutal, dehumanizing time which breeds of contempt/superiority... it really is the attitudes fostered by the countries in the 67 years since which breeds conflict. The Japanese government doesn't want to be liable for reparations and give up fishing rights etc, so they deny responsibility and education of their people, and Korean governments of the north and south have exploited anti-Japanese competitive sentiment for their benefit. They foster a competitive, nationalistic mindset in the populace.
Yes. On the actual ground in real life, Koreans and Japanese are chillin.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
It takes the entire generation involved dying out, acknowledgement and at least the same amount of time spent in the original problem before healing can begin. This is a working theory because it I'll have to hope my grandchildren will live to finally begin to see an American society free of the damage caused by slavery.
Look at the Middle East... hate has one hell of a half-life.
This type of sign was to be found at an American or British property in China, amazingly (or Hong Kong). Maybe a Christian delegation or a trading establishment. Yes, they would stop Chinese people entering somewhere in their own country.
I sincerely hope so. Speaking from personal experience of having visited former Portuguese colonies in Africa, these types of scars don´t disappear from the national psyche easily.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Many Koreans actually will take that back to 1876 to the Ganghwa incident.
Well you could suggest that... Because we do pretty much love each other. I'm not quite sure the germans love us as much as we love them but I can assure you we're pretty much in love with them. Even myself I can't really help it...
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