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[Deleted member 17706]

So how are Zainichi treated in Japan?

It's complicated. A lot of zainichi use Japanese names and thus aren't readily identifiable. There are definitely cases of discrimination against the "special permanent residents," though.

 

[Rentahamster]

Depending on your attitude, you can definitely be ostracized by Japanese society just because you're different.

Oh, yeah, I know that. I meant from the Korean perspective.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Maybe they should call it an un-PC bang.

Get it?

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Certainly they mean no japes allowed, it's all a misunderstanding. Haha.

Lol, Seriously though, that's just fucking stupid of those business.

as mentioned, although its decreased significantly japan still has lots of 'no foreigners' (inc korean) signs for various places - esp in rural areas.

I think the difference is that the Japanese (some businesses) basically say "Fuck off" to ALL foreigners while the Koreans (some businesses) basically say "fuck off" to the Japanese. None of them is right but i just thought it's interesting the animosity (some) Koreans harbor against Japan as a whole and its people and vice versa no less.

 

[SMT]

Can I claim Japanese ancestry? Or am I still a gaijin?

 

[BocoDragon]

Is it bad that I think this is adorable?

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Until Japan actually apologize for their atrocities and actually acknowledge they were monsters during that time. The East Asian countries will continue to hate they.

Most people don't know this but Japan's actions were no better than the Germans.

Imagine if the Germans as in the government itself and the majority of its people completely deny the holocaust happen and repeatedly lie in their history books.

Well that's basically Japan.

In your opinion, How many apologies is enough apologies?

 

[Lesath]

In your opinion, How many apologies is enough apologies?

Does it count as an apology if you teach your children the shit you did never happened?

 

[BocoDragon]

Does it count as an apology if you teach your children the shit you did never happened?

Yeah. During some questions to Japanese people I know about Nanjing and comfort women, there was a tendency to play it down or imply that it was forged/exaggerated.

By contrast, I remember seeing a documentary about German youth, and they are deeply shameful about the holocaust.

Of course you can see how this was allowed to happen: While Japan was occupied after WWII, they were gently let off the hook of responsibility in many ways, in order to more peacefully integrate their powerful economy into the western world.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Not sure if there was a thread about this on GAF, but a few months ago I heard from my brother (a white American living in Korea as an English teacher, who's married to a Korean woman) that a Korean tv network had broadcast this crazy program about interracial relationships. It seemed to me like something out of a Korean equivalent to Fox News, but apparently MBC is a mostly respectable network. He was pretty surprised by the whole thing because he's lived in Seoul for years and hadn't encountered much racism directed at him.

Shit is worse than i thought.

 

[SMT]

Not sure if there was a thread about this on GAF, but a few months ago I heard from my brother (a white American living in Korea as an English teacher, who's married to a Korean woman) that a Korean tv network had broadcast this crazy program about interracial relationships. It seemed to me like something out of a Korean equivalent to Fox News, but apparently MBC is a mostly respectable network. He was pretty surprised by the whole thing because he's lived in Seoul for years and hadn't encountered much racism directed at him.

Wow, this is just terribad, they are making it seem like it's just foreigners who cause trouble.
Look at the bitter guy at the end talking about his friend getting tested HIV positive, he said it was normal for foreigners ''what can you expect from them?''...


WOAAHH.

So, who wants to ESL Korea?

 

[John Blade]

Yeah. During some questions to Japanese people I know about Nanjing and comfort women, there was a tendency to play it down or imply that it was forged/exaggerated.

By contrast, I remember seeing a documentary about German youth, and they are deeply shameful about the holocaust.

Of course you can see how this was allowed to happen: While Japan was occupied after WWII, they were gently let off the hook of responsibility in many ways, in order to more peacefully integrate their powerful economy into the western world.

And that's is why it will be hard to say I am sorry when most of the younger generation in Japan don't know the full story of what they country did during the WWII. It's kinda sad when they say they're victim from the nuclear bomb attack by US but try to pretend that the Nanjing incident is overblown or fake or the comfort women is just lady who want to have sex with them in the past. Kinda double standard when you think about it.

For that main reason, the hatred between the Korean and Chinese at Japanese are going to be there for a long while. The Japanese government won't apologize to the Korean and Chinese for the crime they did during the War and try to white wash it for the younger generation. The older generation of Chinese and Japanese will teach they younger generation to hate the Japanese for what they did and this circle of hate will continue for a long while.

 

[timetokill]

I went to a pretty much all-asian middle school, and man the racism between the groups was fucking crazy to me. All of a sudden the chinese kids would be hating on the korean kids, the korean kids would hate on the japanese kids, the japanese kids hating on the chinese kids, and so on and so forth.

I have to admit it was kind of amusing to a young me.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Yeah. During some questions to Japanese people I know about Nanjing and comfort women, there was a tendency to play it down or imply that it was forged/exaggerated.

By contrast, I remember seeing a documentary about German youth, and they are deeply shameful about the holocaust.

Of course you can see how this was allowed to happen: While Japan was occupied after WWII, they were gently let off the hook of responsibility in many ways, in order to more peacefully integrate their powerful economy into the western world.

Not only that, but the invasions were altered to make it sound like Japan peacefully entered other countries.

This isn't the traditional kind of racism you know of. Most Asians hate Japan because of what they did, and are now pretending it never happened.

 

[Sealda]

Basically, Japanese, do not know anything, but will of course, be skeptical to anything negative against the country (which is normal). Chinese, will already have made up their mind without any real proofs, beside obvious stuff such as Nanjing etc. Koreans however, will know tons of details that are all gov. and nationalistic propaganda and they will go on and on and on...

Basically, Koreans are obsessed with hatred against Japanese and full of dislike for Chinese.

Japanese, will know nothing about anything, but will of course, be skeptical to anything negative said about their country.

Chinese, will dislike koreans and japanese but will not be obsessed nor know that much more than that Japan treated China bad in the past.

 

[2San]

Chinese, will dislike Japanese and Koreans, but will not know why.
Chinese, will already made up their mind without any real proofs, beside obvious stuff such as Nanjing etc.

Err I think the obvious stuff is more then enough.

 

[gryz]

some of these "japanese only" signs are probably just because they don't want to deal with a wave of rude tourists crashing the maid cafes.

 

[2San]

some of these "japanese only" signs are probably just because they don't want to deal with a wave of rude tourists crashing the maid cafes.

Yeah we're pretty lucky here in the west getting all these superior tourists.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

And that's is why it will be hard to say I am sorry when most of the younger generation in Japan don't know the full story of what they country did during the WWII. It's kinda sad when they say they're victim from the nuclear bomb attack by US but try to pretend that the Nanjing incident is overblown or fake or the comfort women is just lady who want to have sex with them in the past. Kinda double standard when you think about it.

For that main reason, the hatred between the Korean and Chinese at Japanese are going to be there for a long while. The Japanese government won't apologize to the Korean and Chinese for the crime they did during the War and try to white wash it for the younger generation. The older generation of Chinese and Japanese will teach they younger generation to hate the Japanese for what they did and this circle of hate will continue for a long while.

No one is saying this. What is debated by Japanese (and other) scholars is that the extent of the destruction in Nanjing may have been overblown in books such as the Rape of Nanking. The only things argued about the comfort women issue are the numbers, and whether or not any of them were forcefully recruited.

 

[NaM]

Yeah we're pretty lucky here in the west getting all these superior tourists.

Is that sarcasm?

Spoiler

 

[KillerMan91]

Asia sounds like middle east. Everyone hating each other despite being ridicuously similar with each other. Glad we in Europe have gotten out of the hate cycle.

 

[Soyongdori]

Asia sounds like middle east. Everyone hating each other despite being ridicuously similar with each other. Glad we in Europe have gotten out of the hate cycle.

if it wasn't for US and Russia, both Koreas and Japan would've gone to multiple wars already, and China just constantly harassing both Korea and Japan simultaneously with missiles.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

if it wasn't for US and Russia, both Koreas and Japan would've gone to multiple wars already, and China just constantly harassing both Korea and Japan simultaneously with missiles.

The US and Russia are the ones who intervened to stop Japan's domination of the region. They bear the responsibility to keep things in order.

 

[Riposte]

This is an accurate depiction of what happened at evo 2k12.

 

[Soyongdori]

The US and Russia are the ones who intervened to stop Japan's domination of the region. They bear the responsibility to keep things in order.

US can't be in far East Asia forever.

 

[injurai]

It feels more like "my first hate speech" type of material rather than silly banter. It would be nice if the adults put this into the kids heads also made sure the kids had a healthy appreciation for satirical humor but I doubt that that's happening.

What the hell...

Would a US-shaped cow shitting out a Mexico-shaped turd be harmless banter as well?

I'm just trying to understand this better. It seems like racism to me, but I don't really know the cultural atmospheres and tensions over there. It's a shame these views are perpetuated in the youth, but it happens here too.

 

[Dead Man]

My investigations proved the "my friend was a raped by her friend and won't tell her husband because her husband would beat her and she's about to meet the friend and hang out with him again" thread false?

Missed that drama.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

US can't be in far East Asia forever.

Forever is a long time. If they don't want Japan to militarize, they're going to have to stay there.

 

[Soyongdori]

Japan will militarize their nation sooner than you think.

 

[Gregorn]

China have been hating on Japan recently too, because of that island.

All of Asia should just focus their racism at North Korea, that would make a lot more sense and might actually help the world. And obviously I don't mean hate the citizens of North Korea.

 

[Byakuya769]

Missed that drama.

My investigations didn't actually prove anything, was just my suspicion.

I would guess he got juniored for this thread and other posts about the strife between Korea, Japan, and China across the forum.

Which if that's the case, I'm not fond of that, but I ain't a mod.

 

[MasterOfPastures]

It's truly sad to see that these divisions are widening ever more, but I blame the lack of "guilt-indoctrination" that in lacking in japanese society, unlike Germany.
Unless someone apologizes or let's the beef slide, war can break in a few years.

Asia sounds like middle east. Everyone hating each other despite being ridicuously similar with each other. Glad we in Europe have gotten out of the hate cycle.

*Shakes fist* Get your taxes out of our foreign customers's accounts, you dirty EUie.

 

[HallwayGiant]

Honestly, I would be shocked if this was the first time that signs like this existed considering that their was a good 30+ year period of Japanese occupation/colonization/slavery in the early 1900s that basically split the country in two which helped facilitate the Korean War. I could see a little resentment there. :/

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Japan will militarize their nation sooner than you think.

Oh, I fully expect it to happen sooner than later. It's an inevitability given the state of the world.

 

[Lesath]

No one is saying this. What is debated by Japanese (and other) scholars is that the extent of the destruction in Nanjing may have been overblown in books such as the Rape of Nanking. The only things argued about the comfort women issue are the numbers, and whether or not any of them were forcefully recruited.

No one? Prominent figures in Japanese government within the decade have denied their country's war crimes. It would be as if certain politicians in the United States pretended the atomic bombings never happened.

And whether any of them are forcefully recruited? I suppose victim-blaming is okay since most of them are dead, isn't it?

 

[KillerMan91]

It's truly sad to see that these divisions are widening ever more, but I blame the lack of "guilt-indoctrination" that in lacking in japanese society, unlike Germany.
Unless someone apologizes or let's the beef slide, war can break in a few years.



*Shakes fist* Get your taxes out of our foreign customers's accounts, you dirty EUie.

Even though relationships between major Asian countries could be better there is zero chance for war in foreasable future. There is nothing to be won in war between developed countries. Economies in both countries would crash. Things were different in the past when 90% of the people in every nation were dirt poor and could be easily manipulated as there was no easy access to information. That is impossible nowadays. Your average joe is not going to change his soft couch for rifle anymore without protesting.

 

[Shimesaba]

They were on nearly every single bar and restaurant last time I was in Shinjuku. You couldn't miss them.

You're not the only one, but what are you even talking about... I've walked all over Shinjuku and gone into a handful of bars and restaurants in the past three weeks, and I haven't seen a single sign like this in any language or been asked to leave even once. What kinds of places were you actually trying to go into?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You're not the only one, but what are you even talking about... I've walked all over Shinjuku and gone into a handful of bars and restaurants in the past three weeks, and I haven't seen a single sign like this in any language or been asked to leave even once. What kinds of places were you actually trying to go into?

I imagine you'd have to go into Kabuki-cho to find any such establishment. I've spent a good amount of time there, though, and never saw anything.

 

[Sage00]

You're not the only one, but what are you even talking about... I've walked all over Shinjuku and gone into a handful of bars and restaurants in the past three weeks, and I haven't seen a single sign like this in any language or been asked to leave even once. What kinds of places were you actually trying to go into?

It's complete bullshit. There is not one single sign like this in Shinjuku. I have no idea why he felt the need to make that up.

Edit: And I've never been refused anywhere, even in Kabukicho, either. Hell, in Golden Gai these days there are bars who ENCOURAGE foreigners and have signs in English. (these are bars that not even most Japanese people can get in without a contact or knowing the staff)

 

[Dark Octave]

Why are Asian countries the most racist?

China banned blacks from bars during the 2008 Olympics.

Korea banning Japanese from establishments.

Japan banning everyone but Eurasians as protagonists in their games.

 

[sega4ever]

Even though relationships between major Asian countries could be better there is zero chance for war in foreasable future. There is nothing to be won in war between developed countries. Economies in both countries would crash. Things were different in the past when 90% of the people in every nation were dirt poor and could be easily manipulated as there was no easy access to information. That is impossible nowadays. Your average joe is not going to change his soft couch for rifle anymore without protesting.

not in this modern age? doesn't every country say that before a war breaks out?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why are Asian countries the most racist?

China banned blacks from bars during the 2008 Olympics.

Korea banning Japanese from establishments.

Japanese banning everyone but Eurasians as protagonists in their games.

Homogeneity. Most English speaking countries have a good degree of multiculturalism, so it's easy to forget that homogenous monoculture nations are actually more common.

Also, let's keep in mind that issues of racism are more often than not rare cases in the grand scheme of things. We've got one example of a net cafe in Korea banning Japanese people. It makes more sense to just interpret this as one particularly nationalistic Korean taking out his frustration over the recent territorial dispute rather than assume that all Koreans hate Japanese people.

 

[Soyongdori]

Oh, I fully expect it to happen sooner than later. It's an inevitability given the state of the world.

Exactly. And US would be out of East Asia by then.

Their people and their hollow economy of once great capitalism demands it.

 

[DeadTrees]

It's kinda sad when they say they're victim from the nuclear bomb attack by US but try to pretend that the Nanjing incident is overblown or fake or the comfort women is just lady who want to have sex with them in the past. Kinda double standard when you think about it.

No one is saying this.

What is debated by Japanese (and other) scholars is that the extent of the destruction in Nanjing may have been overblown in books such as the Rape of Nanking. The only things argued about the comfort women issue are the numbers, and whether or not any of them were forcefully recruited.

...

 

[numble]

China banned blacks from bars during the 2008 Olympics.

There was no ban.

http://mobile.shanghaiist.com/2008/07/21/lost_in_translation_more_on_the_bei.php

I told you this over a year ago:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25511045&postcount=23

You seemed to acknowledge it (at least from another poster):
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25511166&postcount=27

No one is saying this. What is debated by Japanese (and other) scholars is that the extent of the destruction in Nanjing may have been overblown in books such as the Rape of Nanking. The only things argued about the comfort women issue are the numbers, and whether or not any of them were forcefully recruited.

This is precisely why people say Japanese are denying their acts.

 

[TheKaeptain]

It's complicated. A lot of zainichi use Japanese names and thus aren't readily identifiable. There are definitely cases of discrimination against the "special permanent residents," though.

Any good reads on this?

 

[MasterOfPastures]

Even though relationships between major Asian countries could be better there is zero chance for war in foreasable future. There is nothing to be won in war between developed countries. Economies in both countries would crash. Things were different in the past when 90% of the people in every nation were dirt poor and could be easily manipulated as there was no easy access to information. That is impossible nowadays. Your average joe is not going to change his soft couch for rifle anymore without protesting.

China is the key player in such a move, and the people in china have got shit to say against it. The party rules supreme, and a show of force would be enough to secure the islands. Not a shooting war, and certainly not a cease in trading. But that doesn't mean that china is willing to go a bit further than anyone else since it's leadership is absconded in it's tower of power with no real connection to the people as far as accountability goes.
A tell tale sign of an escalation is the surrounding environment: Vietnam is getting more frictional with China, and Australia has quietly increased it's military for the past few years since their military analysts point strongly towards Chinese power projection over the region.

Of course, none of us can do shit about it. A start, though, would be not to pretend that a conflict will never happen.

 

[numble]

China is the key player in such a move, and the people in china have got shit to say against it. The party rules supreme, and a show of force would be enough to secure the islands. Not a shooting war, and certainly not a cease in trading. But that doesn't mean that china is willing to go a bit further than anyone else since it's leadership is absconded in it's tower of power with no real connection to the people as far as accountability goes.
A tell tale sign of an escalation is the surrounding environment: Vietnam is getting more frictional with China, and Australia has quietly increased it's military for the past few years since their military analysts point strongly towards Chinese power projection over the region.

Of course, none of us can do shit about it. A start, though, would be not to pretend that a conflict will never happen.

Let's not conflate the South China Sea with the Diaoyu/Senkaku conflict. The country is causing friction in the South China Sea because it actually controls some islands, it even set up a city on one of the islands recently.

They've done very few agitations regarding the Diaoyu/Senkaku conflict--they don't like to remind people that Japan controls the islands--most of the protests in China regarding the issue have an anti-government component--they accuse China of doing too little, Hong Kong newspapers proclaim the government response to be weak, and complain about why only Hong Kong people have the freedom to stage protests on the island.

Japan's been publicly talking about nationalizing the islands, the Tokyo governor is raising money to buy the islands, the Tokyo governor is planning to visit the islands, and municipal government officials have visited recently. They would do well to leave things alone.

What's clear from the public protests is that any action, if any, won't be despite the people, but because of agitation from the people.

 

[Quadrangulum]

This is precisely why people say Japanese are denying their acts.

I hate to side with the Chinese and the Koreans but this is my perspective as well. There's no doubt in my mind that honest scholars have room to quibble over the results of the death toll ledgers, as would be the case concerning any chaotic event, but these studies aren't funded or cited in the interest of truth finding. Rather, the goal is equivocation which is just a futile, dishonorable thing to do considering the true scales of these crimes, whatever they may be.

The reality is that we're still at least a few decades away until the climate permits a truly dispassionate survey on these matters. Meanwhile, let's just acknowledge that an atrocity is an atrocity.

 

[tino]

Oh, I fully expect it to happen sooner than later. It's an inevitability given the state of the world.

If US want to keep dollar as the standard world currency they will keep up with the carrier group counts.