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Kickstarter game "Clang" cancelled two years after raising over $525K
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
BibiMaghoo
Member
Dafuq? It's not comparable at all.
Starwolf_UK
Member
If just google or read the thread you will find the answer. Here ya go. 6 days to go.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Not producing a game doesn't mean they didn't work on it.
stump sock
Member
half a mil for running a company and providing a living wage for even a small team of people for a year and a half+ isn't a "lot of money."
In fact, it's so little that I'm even a little surprised that they made it as long as they did.
In fact, it's so little that I'm even a little surprised that they made it as long as they did.
drotahorror
Banned
I'll say basically the same thing as Yogventures. I think if you back something on kickstarter, you're aware of the risk. You're not really owed anything except the promise of the developers that they will provide a product for you. Whether they can fulfill that promise, only time will tell.
I don't think they should be obligated to give money back and I don't think kickstarter should have updated their terms. It's just part of the risk.
I don't think they should be obligated to give money back and I don't think kickstarter should have updated their terms. It's just part of the risk.
Since they are unwilling to show anything or talk about what happened with the money or where it went can leave that open to interpretation. Let's just say i've seen way to many good hearted people get taken advantage of by Kickstarter over and over.
Start Kickstarter with some cool looking assets
Make money
kick back with buds in garage for a couple years
when pressure starts to mount - - oops sorry can't finish game BUT hey here's some other projects you might be interested in!
That's what I said, the Last Guardian crew has gotten away without showing anything for much much longer.
PdotMichael
Banned
Kickstarter - no return, full risk.
Wiktor
Member
I don't think you have right to demand refund, but you definitely do have a right to shit on the developers. And devs need to accept that, that's their risk when making KS.
The Last Guardian isn't being funded by you. Or are you an insider and are saying that the SCE Japan and WWS bosses do not get milestone reports or playables?
For a Kickstarter project, the developers have to be accountable to the backers at some point. For some internally funded project like the Last Guardian, they can stop working on it indefinitely and never bother to release it at all with only the risk of disappointing fans who might've paid money for it eventually.
Wiktor
Member
A the same time though we also entered a phase of big successful Kickstarters delivering on their promises.
Do you honestly believe that they're not showing anything to the executive producers from Sony? Just because they're not showing anything to the public doesn't mean Sony is throwing tens of millions at them without getting constant updates on development.
The end product is the return and has always been, but yes there is always a risk.
And_Gignac
Member
Take them to court.
No. Projects that were obviously going to fail as soon as they announced have finally admitted failure. While I sympathize with the people who lost money on these failed kickstarters, the writing was on the wall from day one. If they had used a little common sense, they would have realized they were basically throwing their money away. And some do realize it, but give the money to support something they're into without any expectation of return. I don't think that's a good idea, but it's their money.
Joseph Merrick
Member
why? it sounds like all the people who asked for refunds got them.
drotahorror
Banned
I agree with that.
Am I miss-remembering?
Didn't the devs specifically point out that the money was to get "Clang" to a state where they could get further funding from other investors? I remember several of their videos mentioning this: that this kickstarter was about making the game into a showcase for further funding, NOT to actually make the game. $500,000 isn't likely to make any kind of worthwhile game, never mind something this complex.
I for one have had nothing but good experiences with my kickstarter backings. Mostly because I haven't backed unproven studios asking for too little money.
I backed Wasteland 2, and now it's probably going to end up as my personal game of the year next to Divinity Original Sin (another one I backed), and Dragon Age: Inquisition.
I backed Elite: Dangerous, and the beta is the most fun I've had in a space sim since Freespace, ditto for Star Citizen.
I backed Pillars of Eternity and the demo shows me that I'm in for yet another amazing CRPG later this year.
I backed Shadowrun returns, and that was the best CRPG experience I had before D:OS came out.
My only two disspaointments where Planetary annihilation - which still ended up being a decent game, just not the awesome one I was hoping for, and Broken Age, which simply showed me that telltale adventure games are more my style now a days.
So far, Kickstarter has been awesome, IMHO. To think all projects there will succeed is extremely naive though, and ot dismiss it entirely becaus enot all projects succeed is also silly.
Didn't the devs specifically point out that the money was to get "Clang" to a state where they could get further funding from other investors? I remember several of their videos mentioning this: that this kickstarter was about making the game into a showcase for further funding, NOT to actually make the game. $500,000 isn't likely to make any kind of worthwhile game, never mind something this complex.
I for one have had nothing but good experiences with my kickstarter backings. Mostly because I haven't backed unproven studios asking for too little money.
I backed Wasteland 2, and now it's probably going to end up as my personal game of the year next to Divinity Original Sin (another one I backed), and Dragon Age: Inquisition.
I backed Elite: Dangerous, and the beta is the most fun I've had in a space sim since Freespace, ditto for Star Citizen.
I backed Pillars of Eternity and the demo shows me that I'm in for yet another amazing CRPG later this year.
I backed Shadowrun returns, and that was the best CRPG experience I had before D:OS came out.
My only two disspaointments where Planetary annihilation - which still ended up being a decent game, just not the awesome one I was hoping for, and Broken Age, which simply showed me that telltale adventure games are more my style now a days.
So far, Kickstarter has been awesome, IMHO. To think all projects there will succeed is extremely naive though, and ot dismiss it entirely becaus enot all projects succeed is also silly.
Not surprised this didn't work out. Sounded like big egos and a sort of outdated VR concept. A VR sword fighting game does not sound like something that would be successful today in 2014, but more like something you'd have an awesome time playing at a mall kiosk with your friends circa 1996.
Not meant to sound derogatory but the idea was very limited and considering all the hardware buy-ins needed, a tough sell. It just doesn't seem relevant or like it has legs more than in a gimmicky way.
Not meant to sound derogatory but the idea was very limited and considering all the hardware buy-ins needed, a tough sell. It just doesn't seem relevant or like it has legs more than in a gimmicky way.
Joseph Merrick
Member
yeah, I seem to remember this was to kickstart the prototype. and they did finish a prototype. but I might remember it wrong. the rewards on their kickstarted definitely specify a full game reward, and not a prototype. and I can't be bothered looking at the videos.
uh what. if this game was kickstarted in a post-oculus world, this swordfighting game with a custom controller would be completely up to date and very appealing at least to me. hehe
grap3fruitman
Banned
Agreed. Not to mention that GAF is ignoring the fact that both Kickstarter and the IRS get cuts as well.
ScepticMatt
Member
Time was not enough
http://s1.webmshare.com/9W7nz.webm
http://s1.webmshare.com/9W7nz.webm
Living Proof
Member
Yep. I've been wondering about that. It's entirely plausible that they ran out of money well before they made this announcement.
It's not like this was an easy thing for Stephenson and his team to do. They didn't just wake up and realize they were out of money, shrug their shoulders, cease development and make this announcement in one day. It must have been ineffably difficult to come out and reveal this to their backers.
I don't know much about Stephenson and didn't care for this project back when it was being funded, but I feel bad for the guy who put his name and reputation behind this-- even though I agree with most of the criticism he rightly deserves, this has to be crushing. It's not a huge company or a bunch of random devs or something-- this all falls on his shoulders in the end.
That's all fine and good, but you're to some degree in the minority. I think that most people don't want to buy a headset and Hydra control system, then have to set it all up and make space just to be able to play one sword fighting sim - or at best a very limited selection of niche games using that setup. The majority want games that have a low buy in, and that they can just pick up and play. On top of that a sword fighting game just based on motion controls doesn't really have a lot of depth, it's just based on movement rather than underlying mechanics. Compared to most fighting games / MOBAs / whatever Clang would be up against, it doesn't have as much staying power.
Again not hating on this game, it would have been cool, but I think these are the reasons that funding and development was difficult for them.
You can't regurgitate your research and bloat page count in a video game, so it makes sense that Neal Stephenson wouldn't be able to head the development of something like this.
Also: the funding request trailer was bordering on pipe-dream status. The collision detection and physics alone would have been worthy of an entire game engine unto themselves.
And is there verbage somewhere that says Kickstarter isn't an investment? You put money to someone to complete a project, the upside being that you get to aid the development of a game that wouldn't have the chance to exist without your interest, the downside being said game doesn't actually make it to release. As far as I can tell, Kickstarter isn't a pre-order service. There is entirely the possibility I am mistaken on this, though.
Also: the funding request trailer was bordering on pipe-dream status. The collision detection and physics alone would have been worthy of an entire game engine unto themselves.
And is there verbage somewhere that says Kickstarter isn't an investment? You put money to someone to complete a project, the upside being that you get to aid the development of a game that wouldn't have the chance to exist without your interest, the downside being said game doesn't actually make it to release. As far as I can tell, Kickstarter isn't a pre-order service. There is entirely the possibility I am mistaken on this, though.
I disagree, I see a whole lot more green then orange and red on that summary page.
The Clang project seemed doomed from the start: it was overly ambitious and couldn't deliver based on its funding goals. It reminded me of another project that I could see failing from a mile away.
I was really excited for the Mutant League Football Kickstarter and would have gladly ponied up a good sum to see the game made. Except the creator of Mutant League football posted a video for the game engine he was going to use. The engine powered an absolutely god-awful mobile football game. It was embarrassing, and even the thought of Mutant League Football looking and playing anything like that doomed the project.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mendheim/mutant-football-league?ref=nav_search
Thankfully, the project isn't totally dead. But man, is that a classic example of how not to do a Kickstarter.
http://www.destructoid.com/mutant-football-league-will-return-to-kickstarter-269170.phtml
I was really excited for the Mutant League Football Kickstarter and would have gladly ponied up a good sum to see the game made. Except the creator of Mutant League football posted a video for the game engine he was going to use. The engine powered an absolutely god-awful mobile football game. It was embarrassing, and even the thought of Mutant League Football looking and playing anything like that doomed the project.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mendheim/mutant-football-league?ref=nav_search
Thankfully, the project isn't totally dead. But man, is that a classic example of how not to do a Kickstarter.
http://www.destructoid.com/mutant-football-league-will-return-to-kickstarter-269170.phtml
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
So, a lot of people seem confused about what happened here.
This Kickstarter actually failed and was cancelled a year ago. They had spent the money developing the game for a year and released a demo and basically their core concept didn't work. A year ago they cancelled the game. You can see the year-old thread right here. At the time that they cancelled the game, they said "We're going to try to explore avenues that will allow us to revive it". The money was gone at this point. But what they were saying is that they'd try to find investors, try to figure out a way to make it work.
The update now is just them saying that it's been a year and they haven't found a way to make it work.
If you were a backer, the time to ask for a refund was a year ago and the time to be angry was a year ago. It's very very strange that they're getting coverage now as though the game just failed.
In the artificially constructed premise, you either paid cash or you can't get a refund because VISA only does chargebacks for <x> days and it's been <x+1> between you ordering the couch and you checking to confirm it's arrived.
But there's nothing magic about Kickstarter in this respect; the same chargeback rules that apply to any purchase apply to KS. The issue would be the consequences of doing a chargeback against Amazon, which I wouldn't be able to tell you. But the point of the analogy was not to get into the details, but rather to demonstrate that the entire system of contract law boils down to trusting that the person you're buying from won't go bankrupt, because if they do, you won't get your money back. You can't sue a bankrupt company with no money to refund you, win, and get reimbursed--if the money isn't there, the money isn't there, and no amount of justification or dessert is going to magically will it into existence.
This Kickstarter actually failed and was cancelled a year ago. They had spent the money developing the game for a year and released a demo and basically their core concept didn't work. A year ago they cancelled the game. You can see the year-old thread right here. At the time that they cancelled the game, they said "We're going to try to explore avenues that will allow us to revive it". The money was gone at this point. But what they were saying is that they'd try to find investors, try to figure out a way to make it work.
The update now is just them saying that it's been a year and they haven't found a way to make it work.
If you were a backer, the time to ask for a refund was a year ago and the time to be angry was a year ago. It's very very strange that they're getting coverage now as though the game just failed.
In the artificially constructed premise, you either paid cash or you can't get a refund because VISA only does chargebacks for <x> days and it's been <x+1> between you ordering the couch and you checking to confirm it's arrived.
But there's nothing magic about Kickstarter in this respect; the same chargeback rules that apply to any purchase apply to KS. The issue would be the consequences of doing a chargeback against Amazon, which I wouldn't be able to tell you. But the point of the analogy was not to get into the details, but rather to demonstrate that the entire system of contract law boils down to trusting that the person you're buying from won't go bankrupt, because if they do, you won't get your money back. You can't sue a bankrupt company with no money to refund you, win, and get reimbursed--if the money isn't there, the money isn't there, and no amount of justification or dessert is going to magically will it into existence.
Messofanego
Banned
Banner SagaIt's hard for me to lose faith in Kickstarter when Shovel Knight is one of my GOTY contenders, and Mighty No. 9 might be as well next year (it's not done yet, but they've shown plenty of progress and good will, giving free stuff and being in contact with the community that supported them). It's a shame when this happens
Wasteland 2
Divinity Original Sin
Shadowrun Returns
Broken Sword 5
The Fall
Octodad: Dadliest Catch
That is for 2014.
I don't know about magic, but there is something different when a kickstarter fails. The company that you actually paid is still around, and still solvent. Look at it this way. If you had bought a ticket on Aloha airlines, when they went broke you were SOL. You paid them, they shut down without delivering the service you paid for, and your only options were to get a refund from Visa or get in line with the other creditors at bankruptcy court.
Now imagine you bought a pound of Macadamia nuts from Aloha Nuts, an Amazon seller. You pay amazon, and aloha nuts goes bankrupt before they ship your nuts. You still aren't going to recover anything from Aloha, but this time you have other options, the company who actually charged your credit card is still around.
Joseph Merrick
Member
BUMP
I actually asked for a refund with this update, or a couple of days after this thread. Because I thought, ah what the hell why not try and get a refund. I didn't even think to ask for one before, or it didn't seem completely unlikely they wouldn't get it going again so it would have felt wrong to ask for a refund back then. I didn't have any qualms about that anymore for some reason. lol.
Anyway, the reason I'm posting/bumping the thread now is because I got the money refunded today. So it might still not be too late to ask for refunds on this, if there are others out there who kickstarted this and held out for info like me.
I actually asked for a refund with this update, or a couple of days after this thread. Because I thought, ah what the hell why not try and get a refund. I didn't even think to ask for one before, or it didn't seem completely unlikely they wouldn't get it going again so it would have felt wrong to ask for a refund back then. I didn't have any qualms about that anymore for some reason. lol.
Anyway, the reason I'm posting/bumping the thread now is because I got the money refunded today. So it might still not be too late to ask for refunds on this, if there are others out there who kickstarted this and held out for info like me.
Thanks, I got my refund as well.