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KillScreen: Speak Up, The Order: 1886

I really liked it, I'd give it an 8/10, but this writer is... whoosh

The Order: 1886 (2015) is still more than videogame critics deserve
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What?

Also, as much as I loved it, and I agree with some of his points, he is being real contrarian in here. The ending is a piece of shit. Nothing can rescue that. It's not "sombre and muted" like he says - it's literally incomplete, infinitely more so than MGSV or any other game. It ends during the second act, for god's sake. It's like if Return of the Jedi never got made. The pacing/plot fall-off is indefensible and bad managament on the developers side, who clearly ran out of budget and scope for the latter parts of the game (the dialogue also falls off a cliff).

Do I think critics were too harsh on it? Yes. But not by much.

Do I think it was a great game or near-flawless? Is it "indefensible"? No.
 
Xer0 said:
To be clear, I think the most interesting stuff in this article isn't really about the quality of The Order itself, but more about the idea that games that aren't exactly like stuff we've already seen before are difficult to review.

Like, is it fair to judge this game by saying "its too linear" when that was *obviously* their intent? Like, yeah, it's too linear if you were expecting a regular-ass 3rd person shooter, but, that's not at all what The Order was attempting.
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Why does it matter what they were attempting if they failed to make a compelling experience? But besides that this game is exactly what we've seen before, just executed poorly. The game has half of a story. Even the devs didn't describe it as some brand new experience.
 
Its low review scores and petulant detractors are proof, once again, that games could never become art
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The writing of The Order 1886 was on par with a mediocre B movie, and that's being generous.
 
To me the thing that never gets discussed enough is The Order's overall design decisions, structure, and pacing. I loved it upon release for a multitude of reasons, but most impressive was its format. I've been very critical of the cinematic infusion into video games, but The Order really enthralled me with the way it told its story. Plenty of games have tried to emulate movies. Quantic Dream does so with mixed success, but even they are a little light on the game-y side of things. Ready at Dawn found the perfect mix for me.The ebb and flow the experience had to it was unlike anything I've played before. The way it would build up to action scenes then slip back into peaceful exploration and exposition was a lovely rollercoaster ride. It felt exactly like interacting with a movie. No game has ever done that with as great effect. I never really even thought I wanted something like that before playing The Order, but afterwards I just want more stuff like it. Regardless of how cliche people may find it, or take issues with the various sums of it whole, I feel like it deserves respect for what it was willing to do different and boldly sticking to that plan.

I really hope that someday we can get a sequel.
 
In my opinion the worst gaming site out there. So, so pretentious and it sometimes has bizarre nonsense like last week's "Fuck Yarny" without having played Unravel stuff.
 
I loved the gameplay/ shooting mechanics. I think they had something polished, and fun to play. Then they had chapters in which the only thing you do walk from cut scene to cutscene.

Personally I enjoyed the shootouts, but clearly they put too much focus on the wrong thing.
I'd love to see a spiritual successor that focuses on gameplay. It's okay to be a shooter.
 
An attempt at doing something different is always welcome--but the problem lies in the fact that the attempt wasn't welcome nor was it executed very well.

You can try something all you want but if it's not something people are interested in, you can't go back and say, "They just didn't get it!!!!" That's infantile at best. You can absolutely credit someone for trying something different (though in The Order's case, I don't even know what that is), but that doesn't ever excuse anything.

I don't really follow the writer's point here. Do I heap praise onto someone for trying something at work that's fresh and new, but it fails to deliver? Do I give them a bonus simply for trying?
 
The (rather disproportionately) hostile reaction to The Order was always kind of bizarre imo. Mediocre games come out all the time, but this one really seemed to bring the crazies out of the woodwork.

Anyone else remember that one NPD(?) thread where one particular Neogaf blowhard wrote about a dozen essay-length meltdown posts in one sitting insulting anyone who said they liked The Order in succession because a handful of posters said they wanted a sequel to the game? Pure insanity.
 
Percy said:
The (rather disproportionately) hostile reaction to The Order was always kind of bizarre imo. Mediocre games come out all the time, but this one really seemed to bring the crazies out of the woodwork.

Anyone else remember that one NPD(?) thread where one particular Neogaf blowhard wrote about a dozen essay-length meltdown posts in one sitting insulting anyone who said they liked The Order in succession because a handful of posters said they wanted a sequel to the game? Pure insanity.
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The hype train derails all discussion. No matter what, it always happens.
 
I enjoyed The Order but even its story, which starts as one of its strongest assets, is terrible towards the end.

- Issy goes from cool, interesting character to "jilted lover who turns on her mentor" in the space of literally seconds.
- The MGS3-esque moment at the end of the game is meaningless, as the character you are facing off against has only been shown in game twice before and one of those points he stabs you in the back.
- Overall story was stupidly generic "We are fighting rebels, oh no wait the rebels are good, my organisation was bad?! Yay rebels!" that we've seen a billion times over the years in such great movies as Avatar and games like Haze. (And good things too...)
- When breaking into the dock warehouses, Gallahad goes from "I wont hurt these guys, they're innocent" to "Oh well, better slaughter all these people" for no reason, again within seconds.

It had fantastic world building, graphics and honestly some of the best cinematography in a videogame and I actually enjoyed both hours of gameplay it offered but it is super short, the story is a mess and it just felt like they had to get something out the door. I hope it gets a sequel and RAD are given the time needed to tell a more fleshed out story but I don't think it'll happen.
 
It had good potential. And as a one time play through for a tenner I was happy enough with the cost to enjoyment ratio.

But there were some serious mid 90's/early 00's game design in there.

Some of the hate it got for some things I didn't understand either (e.g the insta fail stealth sections - you get that in so many current games why was it such a big sticking point here?)

If we do get a sequel (which I hope we do)

I hope they learn from the negatives to create an amazing 1887.
 
Bikram said:
One thing I don't understand is why people are so critical of qte sequences in this game? Even a brilliant action game like Bayonetta has so many insta kill qte sequences. But it is still considered on of the best action games from last gen.
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Bayonetta or even god of war doesn't rely only on QTEs. You have to fight the enemy first and use QTE as a cool finisher like a reward for playing the game well . There is no fighting in Order 1886, its just QTE.
that said, insta kill in bayonetta was a poor design decision and only bad part of bayonetta gameplay.
 
XenodudeX said:
It may be a piece of art graphically, but it still isn't a good game imo. I think it's okay to say that.
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I'm more than halfway through and this is my feeling thus far. The gunplay is not that great and I wish there was more non-combat and exploration in the beautiful and engrossing atmosphere. I'm keeping on to see the story through in the hopes that a more open 1887 comes later. That said, the ambient graphics are top notch. And my biggest complaint thus far is the tiny subtitle text.
 
I don't know, I picked up a used copy over the weekend for $18 and despite its flaws I'm really enjoying it so far. Only complaint I have so far is that I wish there was more combat.
 
The Order: 1886 was the reason I bought a PS4 last year, and when I finished the game, it was a purchase that I was fully satisfied with. I haven't played a lot of games from start to finish, but I finished the Order: 1886 and really enjoyed every moment of it.

It's a beautiful game. No question.

As far as the actual game goes, I really enjoyed the linear, story-driven approach. The current market feels saturated with open-world games that just looking at a map for the first time, I feel exhausted that the game is almost too in-depth. Not a knock against that formula, but playing a linear game was a refreshing change.

I really liked the combat, and the behind cover mechanics. The game definitely delivered a sense of nervousness when the heavily armored AI would come out and rush you.

I would say that I wish the werewolves were more of a challenge because when I would battle them, I knew the strategy to take them down so there wasn't much thinking after I figured it out, but I still enjoyed it.

Yeah, I really enjoyed this game and it was my own personal GOTY last year.
 
Bikram said:
One thing I don't understand is why people are so critical of qte sequences in this game? Even a brilliant action game like Bayonetta has so many insta kill qte sequences. But it is still considered on of the best action games from last gen.
About the game. I played it recently and was really shocked with how low it was reviewed. It's not a great game but feels like the first uncharted, a stepping stone for something great. It has lot of potential as a franchise. Not every game needs to be a over long and bloated open world affair.
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Those insta kill qtes are terrible in Bayonetta. Luckily everything else in the game is amazing. That's why it's one of the best action games ever. Not those shitty death qtes.
 
Chola said:
Bayonetta or even god of war doesn't rely only on QTEs. You have to fight the enemy first and use QTE as a cool finisher like a reward for playing the game well . There is no fighting in Order 1886, its just QTE.
that said, insta kill in bayonetta was a poor design decision and only bad part of bayonetta.
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And people complained a lot about the QTE's of bayonetta, it's not like they were glossed over.
 
I disagree entirely. The Order is very much rooted in tradition. That's its biggest problem, being some evolution of a style of game that not a lot of people are interested anymore.

Turning this into some "It's art and novel and you people just don't get it" argument seems a little childish and overreacting to be honest.
 
Lol what?
I mean, everyone has an opinion and I have no problem with people liking The Order. But this article isn't "I liked the The Order and here is way", it's closer to "If you didn't like the order you are wrong and you are the reason why games can't be art".

It's not that people didn't understand what the order was. It's just that they didn't like it

Xer0 said:
Like, is it fair to judge this game by saying "its too linear" when that was *obviously* their intent? Like, yeah, it's too linear if you were expecting a regular-ass 3rd person shooter, but, that's not at all what The Order was attempting.
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But things get reviewed for what they are, not what they are attempting to be.
If you are reviewing the newest fantastic four movie and one of your arguments for saying that it's bad is that they get their powers like two thirds into the movie you can't just invalidade that entire point by saying "you don't get it, this movie isn't trying to be about the fantastic 4 as heroes, it's about them as scientists"
 
I enjoyed the game fwiw, but it's nothing special.

Anyway, just looked over some of the other content on the site and it seems to be fuelled by desire for rageclicks. Don't think I'll be going back there.
 
Bikram said:
One thing I don't understand is why people are so critical of qte sequences in this game? Even a brilliant action game like Bayonetta has so many insta kill qte sequences. But it is still considered on of the best action games from last gen.
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notsureifserious.jpg

Bayonetta's verses weren't just QTE sequences, and the QTEs were the worst parts of the game other than the mashing B for climax parts.
 
I enjoyed the game, still enjoy it for some entertaining shooter action that looks amazing. That being said, most of the criticism it received was completely legitimate. I never understood people who dismissed it as complete garbage, but it had serious issues with pacing and boss encounters.
 
that could have been a great article but he picked the wrong game to illustrate his point. instead the conclusion comes off like someone personally wronged by the review scores of a bad game and grasping at literally anything to justify that position.

surely the games industry has some issues but sometimes a game is just bad and that's that.
 
I love how the author praises the one on one fight with the Alpha werewolf when it was a completely recycled QTE from earlier in the game. He also praises the ending, which is funny because the game doesn't so much end as cut to black before half the plot is resolved.
 
zma1013 said:
Those insta kill qtes are terrible in Bayonetta. Luckily everything else in the game is amazing. That's why it's one of the best action games ever. Not those shitty death qtes.
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Chola said:
Bayonetta or even god of war doesn't rely only on QTEs. You have to fight the enemy first and use QTE as a cool finisher like a reward for playing the game well . There is no fighting in Order 1886, its just QTE.
that said, insta kill in bayonetta was a poor design decision and only bad part of bayonetta gameplay.
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Agreed. What I wanted to point out is qte are not a bad thing if implemented correctly. And with Order they definitely used it a lot but it didn't feel excessive when I was playing it. Maybe because I was expecting a lot more :-P
 
phanphare said:
that could have been a great article but he picked the wrong game to illustrate his point. instead the conclusion comes off like someone personally wronged by the review scores of a bad game and grasping at literally anything to justify that position.

surely the games industry has some issues but sometimes a game is just bad and that's that.
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I actually think reviewers and the audience have been fairly receptive to change in games.

If you look at what made the top 10 lists last year you had lots of Rocket league, splatoon, undertale and personal favourite small games mixed in with the heavy hitters.

Also, something like Fallout 4 was pretty panned for being too much of a retread. As were multiple other AAA games in recent years.

I don't think the premise of the article is all that correct.
 
Read it.

The Order 1886 is an awful game and in no way deserves a sequel.

Fuse is a better third person shooter than The Order.

FUSE
 
...I thought you said this article was good. It honestly reads like satire at points.

I can get people liking or defending the game but, wow.
 
All of his articles in the "Shut Up, Videogames" series are a bit like that. Taking it out of context makes no sense.

I think it failed due to it being marketed like a TPS yet played more like a Telltale game without choices. Maybe they should've added choices into the mix? Or made it even more like Gears of War? I don't know but something definitely got lost along the way. For all it's faults though I still liked it and have replayed it quite a few times since. It's just a shame we won't be getting a sequel considering how interesting the story got at the end.
 
Honestly, I would kind of get the scores The Order got if video game critics were generally as harsh as film critics but they aren't. They give 8/10 and sometimes even 9/10 scores to titles which are mediocre, recycled design-by-checklist garbage all the time and that's why most of those negative The Order reviews felt like reviewers throwing hissy fits because they thought it was the popular thing to do at the time. The game as a whole isn't a masterpiece (although its visuals certainly are) but it's no worse than many other games which have gotten good or great scores across the board so I can't help but feel like it was unfairly singled out.
 
Xer0 said:
Great article, IMO. Lots of interesting ideas in here about why The Order got the reviews it received. Mostly because it refused to be *exactly* like anything else that's come before, and, by doing so, many critics struggled to say anything interesting about it, and, that, somehow, ruins it's credibility as a piece of art.

https://killscreen.com/articles/speak-up-the-order-1886/?utm_content=bufferd1a13&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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No, The Order got the reviews it got deservedly. It was a mediocre game with mediocre gameplay and straight up crappy story.
Had it not been for the graphical qualities, it would be remembered as the worst game on PS4 ever.
Glad that it bombed, it will hopefully deter other AAA developers from serving us garbage wrapped in celophane.
 
GavinUK86 said:
All of his articles in the "Shut Up, Videogames" series are a bit like that. Taking it out of context makes no sense.

I think it failed due to it being marketed like a TPS yet played more like a Telltale game without choices. Maybe they should've added choices into the mix? Or made it even more like Gears of War? I don't know but something definitely got lost along the way. For all it's faults though I still liked it and have replayed it quite a few times since. It's just a shame we won't be getting a sequel considering how interesting the story got at the end.
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I know what you're trying to say here, but that does one hell of a job of making the game sound even less interesting. What is a Telltale game without choices if not just a lot of cutscenes and some running around?
 
GavinUK86 said:
All of his articles in the "Shut Up, Videogames" series are a bit like that. Taking it out of context makes no sense.

I think it failed due to it being marketed like a TPS yet played more like a Telltale game without choices. Maybe they should've added choices into the mix? Or made it even more like Gears of War? I don't know but something definitely got lost along the way. For all it's faults though I still liked it and have replayed it quite a few times since. It's just a shame we won't be getting a sequel considering how interesting the story got at the end.
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I think it should have been more like Until Dawn. The third-person shooting felt like they just didn't know what else to do with the game for gameplay, it was just like a safe fallback "Eh, make something like Gears/Uncharted".

They clearly prioritized story and tech over gameplay, which would have been okay if the story was good, but I don't think it was. I can take bog-standard TPS with good stories, I am a huge fan of Spec Ops: The Line, after all.
 
I like a linear game with QTEs; the kind that clock in at under 15 hours and emphasise story and cinematic elements over gameplay, but 1886 just had a bit of a laboured story. It was judged, largely, on its own terms.

I enjoyed it, but I would've enjoyed it more had I waited and picked it up for a lower price like I did Until Dawn. It seems to me that a lot of the people who got more out of the game bought it some time after release, and at a significantly lower price.
 
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