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[Fenderputty]

Who said KZ2 wont have loading? Just wondering, cos the preview code has quite a bit of loading going on... Between chapters at least, not during phases within them of course.

I thought there was an initial loading of the level, beyond that, there wouldn't be any loading once you started to play said stage.

I remember a developer talking about this during the E3 07 walkthrough. There was a point in the demo where the game paused for a couple seconds. The developer then explained that for the final version, the loading would be done in the background before you got to the "cut off" part.

 

[antiloop]

Imagine having to run Crysis from a disc.
ugh.

 

[Fersis]

But you're real friend sitting next to you will have to watch.

Real friends are so last gen.

 

[dLMN8R]

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

So other than no-installs we don't know about loading right?

My guess:

No loading in levels, current demos have a 1-3 second pause between certain area, but I have clearly heard in some footage someone in the background say something along the lines of "All those little save/load pauses will be gone by release"

I would also venture to guess even between large levels (like a complete change of area where many textures and whatnot need loading) there will be no blatant loading. Like resistance 2, one load upfront and everything else is masked behind scenes or something.

so yeah, that what I am guessing. Once you start there won't be any screens that actually say LOADING...

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

Every big company has had a good amount of time to work on this. Sadly companies like Capcom don't even seem try. DMC4 had a 5gig install and I would venture to guess that is 70% of the game, not even attempting streaming. MGS4 looks guilty too, no way it streams anything other than video from the disc with such large installs.

Installs are fine but definitely an annoyance it is apparent can be avoided. In 09 I hope to see no installs go beyond 2gb. Unless you have a freakishly huge open world like Oblivion.

 

[Firewire]

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

Naughty Dog says GTFO!

 

[AndyD]

It's a PS3 game, it could be free and people would complain they'd have to go to the store to pick it up.

Pffftt.... I want it to anticipate my thoughts, fetch the games, turn them on, open a beer and make a sandwich.

Until then, PS3 sucks...

 

[TTP]

I thought there was an initial loading of the level, beyond that, there wouldn't be any loading once you started to play said stage.

Yeah. That's what I said. But it's not like Uncharted where you don't get ANY apparent loading during the whole game. At least the preview code.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

Yeah. That's what I said. But it's not like Uncharted where you don't get ANY apparent loading during the whole game. At least the preview code.

So to sum up, at the moment it is like R1?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

You mad? Show me any devs who put all this tech together and have no install on the PS3.

 

[dLMN8R]

You mad? Show me any devs who put all this tech together and have no install on the PS3.

Why would I be mad?

All I'm saying is that Killzone 2 has been in full development since well before the PS3's launch. At E3 2005, they obviously already had assets being put together - that's more than 3 years ago. By the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for nearly 4 years. With 135 people working on development, according to interviews.

Not to mention the fact that Guerrilla has had Sony's full, undivided support during this entire development too.

So how about you show me another developer that has had even close to the support and funding Guerrilla has had, and then the comparison to what other developers can and cannot do with the system becomes a bit more valid.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Why would I be mad?

All I'm saying is that Killzone 2 has been in full development since well before the PS3's launch. At E3 2005, they obviously already had assets being put together - that's more than 3 years ago. By the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for nearly 4 years. With 135 people working on development, according to interviews.

Not to mention the fact that Guerrilla has had Sony's full, undivided support during this entire development too.

So how about you show me another developer that has had even close to the support and funding Guerrilla has had, and then the comparison to what other developers can and cannot do with the system becomes a bit more valid.

You clearly are riled up. Who cares of budgets and such. The facts stand. Don't take things so serious. And you are wrong about E3 2k5, they had little assets hence the target render.

And that still doesn't change what they've accomplished. Another notable mention needs to be made for the infrastructure that SCE has for their internal studios. This is a very unique sharing forum that hardly any studios have. This is part of what has made KZ2 so spectacular.

 

[Fenderputty]

Why would I be mad?

All I'm saying is that Killzone 2 has been in full development since well before the PS3's launch. At E3 2005, they obviously already had assets being put together - that's more than 3 years ago. By the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for nearly 4 years. With 135 people working on development, according to interviews.

Not to mention the fact that Guerrilla has had Sony's full, undivided support during this entire development too.

So how about you show me another developer that has had even close to the support and funding Guerrilla has had, and then the comparison to what other developers can and cannot do with the system becomes a bit more valid.

You take away from the talent of the Devs though. You can toss all the money you want at incompetents and you're not going to get greatness. I understand that money and time has helped this title, but you still gotta give credit to the team that made the game.

PLus .. even though I'm not one of them, I know there are people here who can list games that had large budgets but sucked. This argument happened in the beta thread.

 

[TTP]

So to sum up, at the moment it is like R1?

Pretty much.

 

[H_Prestige]

It's not like all that time and money is for the sole purpose of KZ2. They've created technology now that can be passed around Sony's internal development studios who can create high quality games at a faster rate. That's the big payoff here.

 

[Hazaro]

You should really move on and play with people online. It beats having your screen split in half or in fourths.. Playing with someone there with you is fun, but I would hope that wouldn't be a deal breaker for a game as anticipated as Killzone 2 is. There will be a very active GAF clan, so you'll have people to play with. Everyone I've played with in RFOM and R2 is very grown up and fun to play with.

But KZ1 had offline multi and sniping with the orange sniper was so awesome

Me and my buddy would just sit on the floor staring into our orange scopes :lol

*I found the exact spot in this vid :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYBcgo7d12o

Goooood times. I loved how the clarity became less the farther out the distance went.

 

[SSM25]

Why would I be mad?

All I'm saying is that Killzone 2 has been in full development since well before the PS3's launch. At E3 2005, they obviously already had assets being put together - that's more than 3 years ago. By the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for nearly 4 years. With 135 people working on development, according to interviews.

Not to mention the fact that Guerrilla has had Sony's full, undivided support during this entire development too.

So how about you show me another developer that has had even close to the support and funding Guerrilla has had, and then the comparison to what other developers can and cannot do with the system becomes a bit more valid.

Budget and development are only part of the equation, you can throw a lot of money, have a huge headcount and the support of the console manufacturer and still come up with something that looks and plays exactly like a last gen game. You know which game I'm talking about.............

 

[AKS]

Hm...this is what B3d says "Wipeout HD = dynamic-framerate-dependent 1080p framebuffer (1280x1080 to 1920x1080)" Was sure it was native 1920by1080. Oh I get what they mean...sometimes it's 1280by1080, sometimes 1920by1080...depending on framerate. Weird.

It runs in 60fps, rarely dropping frames. Played it to death. The only question is...is it 4xAA...if it isn't, it sure looks like it. Smooth as butter.

I hope more developers can use this type of dynamic resolution if a constant 1080p is too demanding. I don't notice this when it's happening (it always looks gorgeous), so it just as good as 1080p to me. I don't give a damn what the on-paper figures are if it looks like WipEout HD.

 

[dLMN8R]

You clearly are riled up. Who cares of budgets and such. The facts stand. Don't take things so serious. And you are wrong about E3 2k5, they had little assets hence the target render.

And that still doesn't change what they've accomplished. Another notable mention needs to be made for the infrastructure that SCE has for their internal studios. This is a very unique sharing forum that hardly any studios have. This is part of what has made KZ2 so spectacular.

Will you stop it with the fanboyish "mad" and "riled up" accusations? It's quite immature. I'm sorry if you think I insulted the game or developer, but no one's mad here. No one's riled up. I put forth a simple argument against the accusation that other "developers [should] take note" at what Guerrilla has done.

I'm not denouncing their talent, I'm not saying Killzone 2 isn't impressive. If it delivers, which it most likely will, I'll happily play it right alongside the PC and 360 games I currently play.


But to insult *other* developers, saying that they should "take note" at Guerrilla's work, is just plain absurd. There are countless other developers who might very well be just as talented and capable as Guerrilla, maybe even moreso, but the vast majority simply don't have the time, resources, and direct support from Sony as they do.

 

[vpance]

Good texture & data streaming is one of the best (and apparently not that hard to do) things to implement in an engine. Texture quality goes up, game looks tons better. Yet there are still lots of games that dont do it or dont do it well. That's not really a money issue.

 

[Ashhong]

Your TV upscales it to 1080p. Unless it's a super shitty TV (Westinghouse, Vizio, anonymous budget brand), it should be just fine.

if u read my other posts u would see i have a CRT 1080i panasonic. not a super shitty TV by any means. just came out before all that technology. so yea, any confirmation that the game supposrts 1080i?

 

[CrushDance]

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

Says the guy who works for Microsoft Killzone 2 has had just as much time as most other big titles this gen. And of course having the money helps, but I' sure MS didn't skimp on H3 either.

MGS4 while a great game, had tons of loading at the beginning of each chapter. And unless I'm mistaken, they started work on that after MGS3.

It's not just money, it's also talent. Although it can be argued that having more money allows you to attract more talent. Halo 1 didn't look to hot until MS picked it up.

 

[dLMN8R]

oh give me a break, leave my irrelevant employment out of this. I don't work on anything remotely related to games, and have been plenty critical of Halo 3 in the past.

Metal Gear Solid 4 isn't exactly the greatest example, since its ambitions were focused on far more than creating a beautiful FPS. When both games are out, I'm sure there will be plenty that Guerrilla could have "taken note" about what Kojina Productions did. But regardless, even if its development started the second that MGS 3 was finished, that puts it at roughly 3.5 years development time - shorter, in fact, than Killzone 2.


Once again, I'm fully aware that games and technology like this don't happen without talent to go along with time and resources. But talent doesn't negate those other factors either. It is simple, undeniable fact that Killzone 2 has received an unparalleled amount of support from Sony, with a crazy amount of development time to go along with a huge 135-person team.

My only argument is that it is illogical, impractical, and completely unfair to expect most other developers, regardless of talent, to ever have the same circumstances that allow them to "take note."

 

[makingmusic476]

oh give me a break, leave my irrelevant employment out of this. I don't work on anything remotely related to games, and have been plenty critical of Halo 3 in the past.

Metal Gear Solid 4 isn't exactly the greatest example, since its ambitions were focused on far more than creating a beautiful FPS. When both games are out, I'm sure there will be plenty that Guerrilla could have "taken note" about what Kojina Productions did. But regardless, even if its development started the second that MGS 3 was finished, that puts it at roughly 3.5 years development time - shorter, in fact, than Killzone 2.


Once again, I'm fully aware that games and technology like this don't happen without talent to go along with time and resources. But talent doesn't negate those other factors either. It is simple, undeniable fact that Killzone 2 has received an unparalleled amount of support from Sony, with a crazy amount of development time to go along with a huge 135-person team.

My only argument is that it is illogical, impractical, and completely unfair to expect most other developers, regardless of talent, to ever have the same circumstances that allow them to "take note."

A couple of things to point about Killzone 2's development:

1. They hadn't actually begun development of Killzone 2 by E305. They had a few concepts down, but that was it, hence why the scene they showed off in the E305 trailer (which was a 100% CGI concept trailer) looks drastically different from the actual game. From what I understand, they started actual development near the end of 2005, and Guerrilla Games have often mentioned a ""three year development cycle" in interviews in the past.

2. Their team consisted of around 40 guys until they were bought by Sony near the end of 2006.

3. They were working primarily on Killzone: Liberation until it's release at the end of 2006.

 

[UntoldDreams]

Will you stop it with the fanboyish "mad" and "riled up" accusations? It's quite immature. I'm sorry if you think I insulted the game or developer, but no one's mad here. No one's riled up. I put forth a simple argument against the accusation that other "developers [should] take note" at what Guerrilla has done.

I'm not denouncing their talent, I'm not saying Killzone 2 isn't impressive. If it delivers, which it most likely will, I'll happily play it right alongside the PC and 360 games I currently play.


But to insult *other* developers, saying that they should "take note" at Guerrilla's work, is just plain absurd. There are countless other developers who might very well be just as talented and capable as Guerrilla, maybe even moreso, but the vast majority simply don't have the time, resources, and direct support from Sony as they do.

Actually... You shouldn't bring money into the equation. It makes an impossible argument ultimately which can justify almost anything. How do you rate quality and value when you start saying things like this?

Also... By this logic, OpenSource is an infinite percentage better than paid for software. Division by zero being infinity.

 

[Wollan]

The budget of KZ2, the myth, has taken way off. It's an expensive game yes (the only we thing we know is that it's north of $21m) but Guerrilla themselves have stated there has been several titles released before it with higher budgets and that the end budget is quite in line with other modern AAA products. This is all we know.

Also, heavy production on KZ2 started relatively late. They had nothing in early 2005 and according to Guerrilla themselves the game went through a really long and extensive testing and prototyping phase that was substantially longer than normal before actual heavy production started. That long research period is probably the very reason for why Killzone 2 is seemingly one of the most improved sequels ever made.

 

[Rikyfree]

You can't please everyone.

 

[jmonteiro]

The budget of KZ2, the myth, has taken way off. It's an expensive game yes (the only we thing we know is that it's north of $21m) but Guerrilla themselves have stated there has been several titles released before it with higher budgets and that the end budget is quite in line with other modern AAA products. This is all we know.

Also, heavy production on KZ2 started relatively late. They had nothing in early 2005 and according to Guerrilla themselves the game went through a really long and extensive testing and prototyping phase that was substantially longer than normal before actual heavy production started. That long research period is probably the very reason for why Killzone 2 is seemingly one of the most improved sequels ever made.

Exactly. KZ2 budget is nothing out of the norm. I would even say it's much smaller than the budgets for Lair, Too Human, MGS4, Halo 3 just to name a few (2 good and 2 horrible ). People just like to pick on KZ2 for anything. I wonder how KZ2 would be received if it was not a Sony first party game. I'm pretty sure everyone would be all over GG nuts.

 

[jmonteiro]

You can't please everyone.

In this case it seems you can't please the people that only own an 360 :lol

 

[Deacan]

I don't think any game can be worse than MGS4 when it comes to installs, as long as Killzone 2 does not ask me to install every 1/4 of the game I am fine.

 

[Rikyfree]

Exactly. KZ2 budget is nothing out of the norm. I would even say it's much smaller than the budgets for Lair, Too Human, MGS4, Halo 3 just to name a few (2 good and 2 horrible ). People just like to pick on KZ2 for anything. I wonder how KZ2 would be received if it was not a Sony first party game. I'm pretty sure everyone would be all over GG nuts.

Don't forget GTA4's 100 mil. Just sayin.

 

[Fersis]

Exactly. KZ2 budget is nothing out of the norm. I would even say it's much smaller than the budgets for Lair, Too Human, MGS4, Halo 3 just to name a few (2 good and 2 horrible ). People just like to pick on KZ2 for anything. I wonder how KZ2 would be received if it was not a Sony first party game. I'm pretty sure everyone would be all over GG nuts.

Yeah, KZ2 budget is not that big, MGS4 and GTA IV budgets are way higher.
But KZ2 is a PS3 exclusive so its gonna be bashed real hard.

 

[Private Hoffman]

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

Someone sure sounds butthurt. And uninformed.

GG released KZL before going on to KZ2.

When the e3 2k5 trailer was shown they hadn't done much, if any, work at all. That trailer wasn't even made by GG.

 

[neorej]

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

Like Too Human?

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Developers take note"? What bullshit. Give any developer the ridiculous amount of development time and money that Guerrilla has and they'd probably be able to do even better.

 

[Sleeker]

Well this is a nice surprise.

My little 40 gig drive cant take much more

 

[neorej]

Well this is a nice surprise.

My little 40 gig drive cant take much more

You know you can buy a bigger HDD right?

 

[anonymousAversa]

Maybe I'm the only one, but to be honest, I'll take heavily post-processed, 4xAA'd and motion blurred 720p

over jagged 1080p any day.

 

[AndyD]

My only argument is that it is illogical, impractical, and completely unfair to expect most other developers, regardless of talent, to ever have the same circumstances that allow them to "take note."

Its not most. Its the ones that trumpet their huge AAA titles, a handful of studios, that can and shoult put out fantastic comparable games to the best out there.

And its crucial for them to actually take note because the tech developed here is spread behind the scenes among the studios if they prove themselves worthy through their talent. In other words, dont reinvent the wheel when Sony can give you access to a wheel making machine and blueprints for it, and even a wheel!!

No one is asking them to develop their own mega engines on the PS3, because GG could do it. All we are saying is use these amazing tools that are available because of these guys' and others' work. Stop using and complaining about the cookie cutter UE3 with bald space marines and HDR glow to everything, when you have a great alternative here.