I'm definitely disappointed with the amount of stuff that comes out for it. Even the stuff that seems like it will be great (Steel Battalion) has me wary because of how fidgety I found the controls in the demo. At the end of the day I don't regret buying it but I do wish that MS would put money into stuff that isn't Kinect if they aren't going to really improve the state of the peripheral as it is now.
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Kinect and the next wave of 'core' titles
- Thread starter MrNyarlathotep
- Start date
I'm definitely disappointed with the amount of stuff that comes out for it. Even the stuff that seems like it will be great (Steel Battalion) has me wary because of how fidgety I found the controls in the demo. At the end of the day I don't regret buying it but I do wish that MS would put money into stuff that isn't Kinect if they aren't going to really improve the state of the peripheral as it is now.
The Kinect's voice recognition system is interesting because it does three things that practically no other speech recognition system has accomplished so far:
1. Kinect doesn't require a microphone near the speaker's mouth. It can distinguish your voice fairly reliably at a distance of several meters.
2. Kinect works even when games or movies are making loud background noises (including spoken dialogue that would otherwise confuse the system).
3. Kinect doesn't require pushing a button as an attention signal to initiate listening.
I'm not sure if everyone understands just how hard these three advances are and how few systems out there accomplish or even attempt all three of these goals.
In order to meet all three of these requirements, Kinect uses extensive audio processing capabilities like multi-channel noise cancellation and beam forming. And these algorithms require an array microphone (like the one in Kinect) and considerable processing power (using the ARM processor and DSP embedded in the Kinect).
The reason Kinect does all of this, is so you don't have to wear a headset. Because a headset is just another thing that gets in the way of someone using the system.
When Captain Picard tells the computer in Star Trek to do something, he doesn't need to wear a headset. He doesn't need to push a "listen" button. He doesn't have to worry about the red alert siren blaring in the background.
He just says "computer!" and it works.
That is what Kinect is trying to accomplish.
1. Kinect doesn't require a microphone near the speaker's mouth. It can distinguish your voice fairly reliably at a distance of several meters.
2. Kinect works even when games or movies are making loud background noises (including spoken dialogue that would otherwise confuse the system).
3. Kinect doesn't require pushing a button as an attention signal to initiate listening.
I'm not sure if everyone understands just how hard these three advances are and how few systems out there accomplish or even attempt all three of these goals.
In order to meet all three of these requirements, Kinect uses extensive audio processing capabilities like multi-channel noise cancellation and beam forming. And these algorithms require an array microphone (like the one in Kinect) and considerable processing power (using the ARM processor and DSP embedded in the Kinect).
The reason Kinect does all of this, is so you don't have to wear a headset. Because a headset is just another thing that gets in the way of someone using the system.
When Captain Picard tells the computer in Star Trek to do something, he doesn't need to wear a headset. He doesn't need to push a "listen" button. He doesn't have to worry about the red alert siren blaring in the background.
He just says "computer!" and it works.
That is what Kinect is trying to accomplish.
I just wish it didn't hate my accent so much
But to be fair to Microsoft I haven't had much luck with any speech recognition. They'll work some of the time then I'll stumble across a word or phrase I can't get it to recognise.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
what they shouldve done for stel batallion is 100% kinect controlled with voice commands for things like firing missiles and changing weapons.
They could've. If they'd slowed the pace even more and had you calling out to your team to get things done I think it would almost work. Don't know how fun it would be though.
Rotate 90 degrees to the left!
[Enemy closest to new heading is lit with a target]
Fire main cannon!
Reload!
Advance at 25% power!
Stop!
You get the idea.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
sort of like that but control the steering and throttle with your hands
riceandbeans
Member
The controls are spazzy enough even with the limited Kinect support. I could barely get anything to work half the time in the demo.
Until the lag and tracking system are fixed, Kinect can't be taken seriously for core games. Even then, it's still incredibly limited.
Exactly. While I understand why people look at Kinect voice control features and say "Can't that be done with a regular headset?", all of the things you mentioned in the post, while probably minor in the eyes of many, helps to create immersion.
I can just speak as I normally do for things to work. I don't have to wear a headset (which would be a constant reminder of me having to wear it just to use the features).
Poimandres
Member
So I'm probably never going to get one of these. Not enough space in my room, and the tech seems slightly ropey.
But I was playing Child Of Eden at my friends place a few weeks back... and it was pretty awesome! That and the Dragon game are pretty enticing for me.
But I was playing Child Of Eden at my friends place a few weeks back... and it was pretty awesome! That and the Dragon game are pretty enticing for me.
I have a Nyko Zoom on mines and it helped.
Seems to be different for other people though so I don't know if you would want to take the risk in getting one.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
Thats not kinects fault its the sofware problem. Newer games like the summer stars 2012 demo are pretty smooth even archery which takes the most precision works well.
When I put one on the Kinect the thing wouldn't work at all. Piece of crap.
Alx
Member
You need to do the full calibration procedure each time you add or remove the zoom. The quality of tracking will depend on the games : some will work great, others will be degraded, but only a few ones won't work at all.
See the hands on topic for details.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Yet the iPhone can do this with Siri on substantially less processing power.
Voice recognition is a software capability, not a hardware one (outside of a baseline standard, and some form of input hardware) - all of the processing in the Kinect is for the 3D camera stuff, which IS costly to do in realtime, but is also mostly being ignored by developers that aren't making dance and fitness games.
I think Kinect is going very well
I liked Gunstringer and Haunt so far
I cant wait for the Kinect only Crimson Dragon, Steel Batallion, Fable Journey and Ryse
And some games do get voice only, which again is fine, if a game is not made ground up for Kinect then how can it get the full feature set ?
The demo was very responsive for me and works fine really, needs a lot of calibration though
TBH I think Kinect is essentially wasted as a separate device for gaming. It's great for dance/fitness and IMHO nothing else. No matter how much better the recognition gets for gaming purposes it is extremely limited.
As an input option for interface it is very promising and rather than a separate device it really belongs as something embedded along the top of TVs. I'm guessing once others either license it or simply find a way to replicate it around any patents MS might have we're going to see TVs with Kinect like voice/gesture recognition built into them.
Really, the many uses it's been put to outside gaming via PC confirm for me that the technology is very promising indeed for just about anything but video-gaming. Personally I feel a little saddened MS shoehorned the device towards gaming first purely from a business perspective rather than focusing on its better non-gaming possibilities.
As an input option for interface it is very promising and rather than a separate device it really belongs as something embedded along the top of TVs. I'm guessing once others either license it or simply find a way to replicate it around any patents MS might have we're going to see TVs with Kinect like voice/gesture recognition built into them.
Really, the many uses it's been put to outside gaming via PC confirm for me that the technology is very promising indeed for just about anything but video-gaming. Personally I feel a little saddened MS shoehorned the device towards gaming first purely from a business perspective rather than focusing on its better non-gaming possibilities.
I think this tech could add an extra dimension of immersion and interaction in games as it matures and i think this tech is better suited to games than anything else and is the future in gameplay
But is in the very first steps, i agree there, from both hardware and software implementation
Alx
Member
You have to push a button to trigger Siri. And you talk right into the microphone, not two meters away. And the processing is done in the cloud.
They do focus a lot on non-gaming possibilities : they distributed a free research SDK and later a commercial one with regular updates, funded several start-ups, made many demos of their own research projects using the device... Almost every week I get new info about a kinect-based product or publication.
Starting it as a gaming device is mainly a (clever) trick to mass produce it and have a huge testing field. Like I said before, it's quite appropriate because not only do gamers like new gadgets, but they will try to make it work (calibration procedures, phrase learning, ...)
shaowebb
Member
Kinect in my eyes should never have been used for gaming. It should have been used as a tool to sell to animators with plugins allowing it to be used for in house motion tracking and mapping work for budget jobs across a variety of modeling software and game engines. As a game tool it simply overcomplicates a process of controls that a player shouldn't have to tax their stamina or dexterity to achieve.
The fact that Kinect requires your full body to control a game was supposed to sell it to consumers, but that same fact is the reason you can't sell it to developers as something they'd wish to tackle as a controller scheme. It complicates games and it lowers the playtime of the gamers using them due to the demands it puts on stamina. Use it for sims and use it for facial mapping in games with mic's to let players live chat as their guys. If there was a dedicated MMO or SIM game with it the thing might turn some more heads, but right now its just casual titles only and who pays that much to play casual titles that don't stand out a lot from cheaper casual wares?
Kinect just fails to spark ideas or interest in developers and it restricts too many genres IMO. Should have been sold as a PC tool for animators.
The fact that Kinect requires your full body to control a game was supposed to sell it to consumers, but that same fact is the reason you can't sell it to developers as something they'd wish to tackle as a controller scheme. It complicates games and it lowers the playtime of the gamers using them due to the demands it puts on stamina. Use it for sims and use it for facial mapping in games with mic's to let players live chat as their guys. If there was a dedicated MMO or SIM game with it the thing might turn some more heads, but right now its just casual titles only and who pays that much to play casual titles that don't stand out a lot from cheaper casual wares?
Kinect just fails to spark ideas or interest in developers and it restricts too many genres IMO. Should have been sold as a PC tool for animators.
All of those amazing/funny little apps and all of those various non-gaming industries that have used Kinect utterly disagree with you.
shaowebb
Member
Its a gaming peripheral marketed to game players. I don't see a whole lot of games for the device nor do I hear about people using it frequently for games more regularly than other devices. My statement stands that folks aren't making games for it and its not sparking game ideas as its too restrictive. As I said it should have been sold as a PC peripheral and not for this. Besides of what use is an app if it requires you to go home, stand in front of your tv and turn on your console to use it? Why should I care about Kinect as an app controller? Apps are supposed to be cheap and portable and tying Kinect to that model fails on both sides of the catch. Its neat for about a minute then its just a cash waste if we're talking game consoles and apps. May as well chock Kinect apps up as about as much use as Avatar parts.
Kinect closes more doors than it opens to gameplay development IMO. You're welcome to support the device if you want, but how much support does it have for games now after E3's lineup for it was announced? How much has it had in the past? How much of that is actually the kind of game you can see people pre-ordering and hitting midnight launches of?
Not enough in my opinion. It should have been a PC peripheral. It'd need to work with a "sitting down" mode though to use as a PC controller though. I'd window the input to only map the upper body using a seperate skeletal rig that stops at the waste for such windowed setups in sitting down mode. Use it for that and sell it to folks wanting to browse their computer and the web like their Tony Stark. Its the kind of tech thing that'd work on PC better and THAT is a proper market for such an app device. Not your game console. After all you're not exactly typing up your posts on your 360 right now so don't tell me it has a hope of replacing people's PC as their preferred browsing device. If their at home and online likely they are using the PC. Since the PC houses all the animation softwares and personal stuff like music folders and pic folders people might want such apps for it'd be better suited as a device for it than the 360.
Alx
Member
It's been said hundreds of times before, but that's not the kind of crowd the device is aimed at. There is a whole lot of gamers that do not preorder or queue at midnight to get their games.
And I don't think selling it for PC first would have been a better idea. For a start, PC users are much closer to the screen, which makes a depth sensing sensor difficult to use, or pointless. And a PC user always has his mouse and keyboard at his reach, so there's no need for motion.
LowEndTorque
Member
Yep, Bruiser nailed it. Normally, I hate the "/thread" stuff but it's kinda appropriate here.
Most people with common sense saw immediately that kinect was extremely limited in what it could do gameplay-wise and would never even remotely work as well as traditional controllers or motion controllers as the sole control input for "core" games or games with any measure of depth or complexity to the gameplay.
PuppetSlave
Member
Never used kinect or even own an xbox but I saw some pretty cool youtube video with skyrim in some gaf thread using kinect. Using shouts and switching weapons on the fly.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
im waiting for a martial arts game
Kinect is far better as a support peripheral rather than one which should be used as the entire focus behind the gameplay mechanics. (With a few exceptions - Child of Eden/Dance Central). But at the end of the day, developing core games for it seems like a waste of time. I could bet that 'The Journey' wont do anything near 'good' sales numbers, because it's yet another rail shooter. Steel Battallion is a nice idea, but the actual game itself isn't exactly competitive with the big titles of this year. If I were Microsoft, I'd abandon titles like Crimson Dragon and Steel Battalion completely and instead keep putting Kinect support into multimedia, fun labs and as an enhancement to games like Forza and Mass Effect.
I'd say the way (and the only way) forward for Kinect is to keep combining it with big names like Star Wars and Harry Potter. If they really want to attract the core then make /these/ games more appealing to both audiences, in the same way a Super Mario Galaxy game would. I was actually interested in Kinect Star Wars until they went and completely fucked it up. I'm still optimistic they could make a better sequel though.
I'd say the way (and the only way) forward for Kinect is to keep combining it with big names like Star Wars and Harry Potter. If they really want to attract the core then make /these/ games more appealing to both audiences, in the same way a Super Mario Galaxy game would. I was actually interested in Kinect Star Wars until they went and completely fucked it up. I'm still optimistic they could make a better sequel though.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
Came here to post this.
Head tracking and leaning features could be great. It just comes down to implentation in the end.
The games like kinect adventures / sport are fun, and i can play with my son/wife/Dad etc.. without them feeling intimidated by having to learn how to play a game. And we have a good time playing them.
My Wife likes the Zumba game, my son likes the disney stuff. Puss in Boots is actually fantastic for the kinect.
Have downloaded Hole in the wall from XBLA, but not played it yet.. hoping its fun though.
As I'd prefer to find the word "fun" on a game box rather than "visceral" though.
I paid £59 for mine.. Wouldn't have paid any more for it.
CecilRousso
Member
What the consoles need are controls that are good for controlling a pointer, so that we can get strategy titles on consoles. We don´t need all this arm waving. For the games I like, Kinect is a failure.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Download Fruit Ninja Kinect and Happy Action Theater. Not only the best Kinect Arcade titles, but some of the best fun you can have with the device.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Probably hanging out with The Last Guardian.
No regret. Love it for Dance Central, which I play almost daily, and several other games. Use it far more for Bing search to find my games (faster than any other input method) and love controlling things like Hulu from the back of the room when I don't want to bother finding/activating my controller.
I don't really get excited about the game aspect...I want to see more non-game applications.
I don't really get excited about the game aspect...I want to see more non-game applications.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
Dumbass probably never even played Fable 2 , had more fun with it than any Zelda.
Perfect comparison
Also people forget fitness games which are and will continue to get more popular, like dance games nothing even comes close to Kinect when it comes to fitness games.