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[Fuz]

Hello.
Sorry if it's the wrong forum for this, was unsure where to post it.
So, I think I've been scammed by kinguin.
First time I bought from them, I made an order and canceled before 24 hours.
When I tried to cancel it, I got this message: "You are about to cancel this order. Please make sure that no payment was debited for this order. Any balance used for this order will be returned to your account." Which was false, since my credit card was billed immediately (it was a pre-order for Overwatch). So I contacted support, they answered the same day,and they said "sure, we'll refund you"... except the refund went to my kinguin balance and NOT back to my credit card, as I asked. I DO NOT want to buy from them, and that balance is basically stolen money from me. I have contacted support again telling them to give me back my money, but three days have passed and the support is completly ignoring me now. I paid with a prepaid card, today I called them and they said they couldn't refund a paid transaction (they said my only option would have been to make a report to the police).
So, since they were ignoring me I was afraid of losing my money and I spent the balance just to be sure... except I had to add 1,26 euros for this transaction, which I did, and during the operation my card payment gave me an error. Now, the transaction says "pending payment" (which I suppose means that it didn't work out because of that error), but I cannot find a way to pay that and, even worse, cancel that order (there is no "cancel" button), I have ZERO balance on my kinguin account, my money hasn't been refunded, and the support is STILL ignoring me.

What should I do? Can I take any legal action against them?

 

[TheDanger]

Why did you cancel? I bought 27 games from there without issues. If you really want to take legal action over this I dunno seems like you would lose more money.

 

[zeemumu]

Oswald Fisk or Wilson Cobblepot?

If they refuse to refund you and were allowing refunds then yeah you could probably take some form of legal action. But if the fine print said that it was going back to your Kinguin account then you might be out of luck.

 

[Stinkles]

Regardless of vendor have your credit card company reverse the charge if you received no goods or services. Then it's between them and whoever. If you did receive goods or services then you're on your own.

 

[TheDanger]

Oswald Fisk or Wilson Cobblepot?

 

[Fuz]

Why did you cancel? I bought 27 games from there without issues.

I didn't notice the OW: Origins they were selling did not have the Widowmaker pre-purchase skin. I noticed it a few hours later and decided to buy it on b.net store instead.
That's why I canceled. Again, on the same day.

Regardless of vendor have your credit card company reverse the charge if you received no goods or services. Then it's between them and whoever. If you did receive goods or services then you're on your own.

I can't, I called them but apparently it's a debit card that offers no cover on these things. And no, I did not receive anything. Apart from a bill on my credit card, of course.

 

[TheDanger]

I didn't notice the OW: Origins they were selling did not have the Widowmaker pre-purchase skin. I noticed it a few hours later and decided to buy it on b.net store instead.
That's why I canceled. Again, on the same day.

well check their terms, does it say refunds only go to store credit? I don't know how it is in the US, but in Austria I even know of retail stores that only give you a voucher as refund. If you noticed it a few hours later you must already have gotten the code, so you got the code and store credit and you feel scammed? Are you for real?

 

[Fuz]

well check their terms, does it say refunds only go to store credit?

I don't think it's legal, though.

 

[TheDanger]

I don't think it's legal, though.

if it is in their terms I think it is, you bought something and agreed to the terms. Lots of stuff is even not refundable, that ain't illegal either I'm pretty sure. Also your reason for wanting a refund is your own mistake of not seeing that it is without that skin, who says they even have to give you anything?

 

[Alucrid]

well check their terms, does it say refunds only go to store credit? I don't know how it is in the US, but in Austria I even know of retail stores that only give you a voucher as refund. If you noticed it a few hours later you must already have gotten the code, so you got the code and store credit and you feel scammed? Are you for real?

the game isn't even out so i doubt he has a key

 

[TheDanger]

the game isn't even out so i doubt he has a key

I see, never heard of the game.

@OP: In any case it does not seem like you were scammed, you made a mistake and now you got store credit. It's not the end of the world.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

First of all, you should never ever spend a store-credit that you wanted to be refunded to your credit card. If they were going to process a refund, you just messed up all of their plans.

I paid with a prepaid card, today I called them and they said they couldn't refund a paid transaction (they said my only option would have been to make a report to the police).

What is a pre-paid card? When did you use it? Previously you told that you used your credit card.

Pretty sure it isn't, at least not in Italy... we have a 7-day time period where we can reject the purchase and get a full refund.

Kinguin is a Hong-Kong based company. Even if you chose EU-VAT payment, you are still dealing with the Hong-Kong company that doesn't operate in Italy, just delivers goods.

 

[Fuz]

if it is in their terms I think it is, you bought something and agreed to the terms. Lots of stuff is even not refundable, that ain't illegal either I'm pretty sure. Also your reason for wanting a refund is your own mistake of not seeing that it is without that skin, who says they even have to give you anything?

Pretty sure it isn't, at least not in Italy... we have a 7-day time period where we can reject the purchase and get a full refund.

Anyway, from http://www.************/terms

2.8 You can refund payments up to 60 days after the transaction date.

3.10 PRE-ORDERS You may cancel your pre-order anytime up to 3 days prior to the date of the game release (UNLESS ANY ACTIVATION KEY ASSOCIATED WITH THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED IN ADVANCE). Refund requests filled within the last 3 days may not be accepted. The price stated in the pre-order is a guaranteed price. We will not ask you for any more payments after the product release. When the game releases, you will receive a key in a new order.

Doesn't seem to say anywhere that the refunds go to balance only.

First of all, you should never ever spend a store-credit that you wanted to be refunded to your credit card. If they were going to process a refund, you just messed up all of their plans.

I did so because their support ignored me for three days straight and I was afraid to lose everything.

What is a pre-paid card? When did you use it? Previously you told that you used your credit card.

I meant debit card... sorry for the confusion.

Anyway, what I meant to ask is, is there some consumer's association I can contact to help me on the matter?

 

[TheDanger]

Pretty sure it isn't, at least not in Italy... we have a 7-day time period where we can reject the purchase and get a full refund.

Anyway, from http://www.************/terms


Doesn't seem to say anywhere that the refunds go to balance only.

Did you get a key?

 

[Alucrid]

well maybe this is why the site is banned here

 

[kirblar]

Contact your card company and do a chargeback.

 

[Fuz]

Did you get a key?

No. Those are supposed to be sent on Overwatch release day.

 

[TheDanger]

well maybe this is why the site is banned here

It's banned because it's not an authorized digital reseller, but yeah games are half price at release sometimes and I never had any issues, also no VPN bullshit keys.

 

[gogogow]

I really don't trust these key sites where you have to pay an extra €1 for buyer protection.

"By disabling it the customer takes the full responsibility for any potential issues"

How much did you pay? The cheapest price I see on that site is €39.98.

cdkeys.com, whom are very reliable, has it for €36.79 and it includes:

The Origin Edition includes:

Widowmaker Noire Skin: receive the special Noire skin for the deadly and ruthless Widowmaker. Clad in black and red, she stalks her prey like a venomous spider.

Overwatch - Hero Skins: Pay homage to the original Overwatch strike force by wearing the vintage skins Blackwatch Reyes or Strike-Commander Morrison. Explore other heroes’ origins with Overgrown Bastion, Security Chief Pharah, and even Slipstream Tracer!

Heroes of the Storm™ - Tracer Hero: Jump into the Nexus with Tracer and surprise your enemies in the blink of an eye.

World of Warcraft® - Baby Winston Pet: Adorably cuddly and highly intellectual, the Baby Winston pet will be at your side as you fight your way through Azeroth.

Hearthstone® - Card Back: Battle it out in Hearthstone with an Overwatch-themed card back fit for a hero!

Diablo® III - Mercy's Wings: Slay demonic forces throughout the High Heavens and Burning Hells as you don Mercy’s wings. All of Sanctuary will know of your allegiance to Overwatch!

StarCraft® II - In-game Portraits: With brand new portraits of Tracer, Reaper, Pharah, Winston, Bastion, and Soldier: 76, you’re sure to become a champion of the Koprulu Sector.

 

[Syriel]

So, since they were ignoring me I was afraid of losing my money and I spent the balance just to be sure... except I had to add 1,26 euros for this transaction, which I did, and during the operation my card payment gave me an error. Now, the transaction says "pending payment" (which I suppose means that it didn't work out because of that error), but I cannot find a way to pay that and, even worse, cancel that order (there is no "cancel" button), I have ZERO balance on my kinguin account, my money hasn't been refunded, and the support is STILL ignoring me.

What should I do? Can I take any legal action against them?

If you already spent the balance on other things, you spent it. Why didn't you let the process play out?

I didn't notice the OW: Origins they were selling did not have the Widowmaker pre-purchase skin. I noticed it a few hours later and decided to buy it on b.net store instead.
That's why I canceled. Again, on the same day.

I can't, I called them but apparently it's a debit card that offers no cover on these things. And no, I did not receive anything. Apart from a bill on my credit card, of course.

This is yet another reason to use an actual credit card to purchase things online instead of a debit card.

Pretty sure it isn't, at least not in Italy... we have a 7-day time period where we can reject the purchase and get a full refund.

Kinguin is based in Hong Kong (with dev offices in Poland) and the ToS of the site points out the HK thing.

Italian law isn't going to apply to a Hong Kong shop, especially if it has no presence in Italy.

 

[Fuz]

Basically, my question is this:

Anyway, what I meant to ask is, is there some consumer's association I can contact to help me on the matter?

Or I just lost my money to those scammers?

Italian law isn't going to apply to a Hong Kong shop

Technically, it does apply... they just have no way to enforce it

 

[PAULINK]

gg wp

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Basically, my question is this:



Or I just lost my money to those scammers?

1. Kinguin isn't a scammer.
2. You didn't lose your money, you spent it when you got initial store-credit refund.
3. The error that you got is most likely your bank withholding transactions for some reason. Or perhaps Kinguin were going to remove your credit and refund the credit card, but you were too impatient.

Wait for Kinguin's response, they will tell you what is going on.

If Kinguin doesn't solve this situation in a week, call your bank and charge-back the transaction.

Technically, it does apply... they just have no way to enforce it

No it doesn't.

 

[diamount]

Why did you cancel? I bought 27 games from there without issues. If you really want to take legal action over this I dunno seems like you would lose more money.

You don't buy from a singular entity. It's like the ebay for key sales, so your experience of buying is totally irrelevant.

 

[Vlodril]

well check their terms, does it say refunds only go to store credit? I don't know how it is in the US, but in Austria I even know of retail stores that only give you a voucher as refund. If you noticed it a few hours later you must already have gotten the code, so you got the code and store credit and you feel scammed? Are you for real?

You should have probably specified about the refund. i went through the game (i buy there regularly but the xcom 2 key was late) and they offered to refund me for store credit. I declined and when the rep said its store policy etc i said i will just reject through the bank if you dont refund me the money (not credit) and they did. They said it would take 3-5 days i think.

 

[Messofanego]

I don't know why people would want to jump through so many hoops of ebay-like hong kong-based companies for cd key resellers just to get a cheaper price. Guess desperation to play the latest game.

The truth behind those mysteriously cheap gray market game codes

 

[Vlodril]

I don't know why people would want to jump through so many hoops of ebay-like hong kong-based companies for cd key resellers just to get a cheaper price. Guess desperation to play the latest game.

The truth behind those mysteriously cheap gray market game codes

i am not in a great situation money wise but i still dont want to pirate games. Speaking about myself.

 

[Fuz]

So, new development.
After some more, painful, exchange of mails, they agreed to refund me fully on my debit card (they said they "misunderstood" me).
Now I'm waiting for the sum to magically appear on my card (still hasn't yet, but it should take a few days).
Just wanted to clear their name with this post.

 

[bobawesome]

So, new devolpment.
After some more, painful, exchange of mails, they agreed to refund me fully on my debit card (they said they "misunderstood" me).
Now I'm waiting for the sum to magically appear on my card (still hasn't yet, but it should take a few days).
Just wanted to clear their name with this post.

Sites like Kinguin and G2A are shady, though. There's a reason they have poor reputations and they're banned. People would be better off ignoring them in the future and actually supporting the developers through official outlets.

 

[Woody Invincible]

I use Kinguin all the time. It's a secondary market, like buying steam keys off ebay. If you are asking me to spend more money just because a certain retailer is "authorized", lol no thanks. I mean GMG is legit, and look at the Witcher 3 blow up.

I've had a problem once or twice with Kinguin, and they have helped out each time.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I use Kinguin all the time. It's a secondary market, like buying steam keys off ebay. If you are asking me to spend more money just because a certain retailer is "authorized", lol no thanks. I mean GMG is legit, and look at the Witcher 3 blow up.

I've had a problem once or twice with Kinguin, and they have helped out each time.

What do you mean secondary market? You can't use a key twice, so they are not second hand. For new games, this is even impossible.

Or do you mean secondary market like they get them from cheaper regions?

 

[JaseC]

What do you mean secondary market? You can't use a key twice, so they are not second hand. For new games, this is even impossible.

Or do you mean secondary market like they get them from cheaper regions?

Kinguin and G2A in particular operate with a mix of reselling keys they take from retail copies and users themselves selling keys they (said users) have to spare.

 

[Tertullian]

I'm always of two minds about key resellers.

On the one hand, I consider it a fundamental consumer right to resell something I legitimately bought, so I find it anti-consumer and galling when huge publishers tell me to only ever buy keys from "authorized sellers," or when the owner of the Humble Store (or whoever) tells me that the keys they sell are not for resale. Fuck that shit. If a furniture designer or manufacturer told me that I'm not allowed to resell my own furniture that I legitimately bought, and that I'm defrauding furniture designers and makers and retailers by doing so, I would laugh in his face. I absolutely do not consider game keys relevantly different (and no, I don't care that they're technically "licenses" to play a game rather than a physical product, or anything like that. They function like a product. I paid for them. They're mine to do with as I please.) I will happily resell a key I legitimately paid for, or buy a key that someone else legitimately paid for, without a shred of remorse, and fuck anyone in the video game industry who thinks video games should be an exception to a consumer's basic right to resell his own property.

On the other hand, trafficking in stolen keys (usually keys bought with stolen credit card numbers) is obviously immoral, and G2A and Kinguin are so obviously designed to facilitate the resale of stolen keys that I can't shop them with any sort of confidence. So I stick with CDKeys and places like GAF's own B/S/T thread (I have no objection to region-exploiting grey market keys, as long as they aren't stolen. Fuck regional price discrimination; I'll circumvent that every time I can.)

 

[RumblingRosco]

So, new development.
After some more, painful, exchange of mails, they agreed to refund me fully on my debit card (they said they "misunderstood" me).
Now I'm waiting for the sum to magically appear on my card (still hasn't yet, but it should take a few days).
Just wanted to clear their name with this post.

So, you also spent that money on another purchase, right? At the end you'll walk away with your refund (assuming they make good on their refund) and the new purchase?

 

[ZackieChan]

So, you also spent that money on another purchase, right? At the end you'll walk away with your refund (assuming they make good on their refund) and the new purchase?

All in a day's work.

 

[electricshake]

i am not in a great situation money wise but i still dont want to pirate games. Speaking about myself.

Then why not save your money instead of buying luxuries like games?

 

[Woody Invincible]

Then why not save your money instead of buying luxuries like games?

That Guy™

 

[TheRedSnifit]

So, you also spent that money on another purchase, right? At the end you'll walk away with your refund (assuming they make good on their refund) and the new purchase?

Makes you wonder who's the scammer

 

[ZackieChan]

Makes you wonder who's the scammer

He's not the first gaffer who took a "scam them first" approach

 

[Jimrpg]

I don't know why people would want to jump through so many hoops of ebay-like hong kong-based companies for cd key resellers just to get a cheaper price. Guess desperation to play the latest game.

The truth behind those mysteriously cheap gray market game codes

Kinguin and G2A are digital key marketplaces for gamers to trade and sell their keys. Just like eBay there are probably scammers too. The actual publishers are absolutely happy to sell you these digital keys at discounted prices because they want to meet their sales targets. But they obviously want to keep this low key because they don't want people to stop paying full RRP on steam and other official resellers. Another thing is that the publishers know full well that RRP is just too high for many gamers so they can make a lot of money by selling at the next tier down for those who are willing to pay for 20% less on release. Release is the best time to make money because that's when there is the most coverage.

However these digital marketplaces have had in the past got a bad rep because some scammers had bought keys with stolen credit cards who've had their keys revoked and thus affected people who've purchased them. That doesn't mean the other sellers are scammers though. To combat this and because it's probably only a small fraction of the sellers selling bad keys, kinguin offer 1 euro insurance. Obviously they are passing the costs of the insurance to the buyer but at least it's somewhat transparent and they let the buyer decide if they want to buy it or not. If you know the seller then maybe there's no need to spend the extra dollar on insurance especially when the key itself is really cheap too. Either way the insurance there is useful.

 

[Messofanego]

Kinguin and G2A are digital key marketplaces for gamers to trade and sell their keys. Just like eBay there are probably scammers too. The actual publishers are absolutely happy to sell you these digital keys at discounted prices because they want to meet their sales targets. But they obviously want to keep this low key because they don't want people to stop paying full RRP on steam and other official resellers. Another thing is that the publishers know full well that RRP is just too high for many gamers so they can make a lot of money by selling at the next tier down for those who are willing to pay for 20% less on release. Release is the best time to make money because that's when there is the most coverage.

However these digital marketplaces have had in the past got a bad rep because some scammers had bought keys with stolen credit cards who've had their keys revoked and thus affected people who've purchased them. That doesn't mean the other sellers are scammers though. To combat this and because it's probably only a small fraction of the sellers selling bad keys, kinguin offer 1 euro insurance. Obviously they are passing the costs of the insurance to the buyer but at least it's somewhat transparent and they let the buyer decide if they want to buy it or not. If you know the seller then maybe there's no need to spend the extra dollar on insurance especially when the key itself is really cheap too. Either way the insurance there is useful.

Is the insurance enough of a safety measure against scammers? If you get a wrong key or one that's banned by the devs, would you be able to get a refund? If yes, then I can understand the gamble that people with less money make who can't wait for sales, as long as they have that refund safety net.

 

[Fuz]

So, you also spent that money on another purchase, right? At the end you'll walk away with your refund (assuming they make good on their refund) and the new purchase?

Nope. I asked them to refund that. I got nothing more than I spent (I actually got nothing yet, but anyway...).

Edit: got my money back.