Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I want to believe... but it looks so bland =(
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Knack: 2 audiences, core & beginner gamers, can be someone's first console game
- Thread starter zeopower6
- Start date
Arc Christelle
Member
Man Drek. These long ass posts are getting outta hand, so I'm going to try to keep it short and simple.
1. Feel free to Quote all of my "shitposts" Because I've only made one real negative statement about his PR not reflecting the game, and everyone got defensive. Most of my "shitposts" were replies to overpassionate posters who replied to me. If you want me to get out because I don't have anything positive to say about the game or don't accept the words Cerny is feeding me, fine. I haven't insulted anyone even tried to cooperate with people. You're getting a bit overzealous man. And even still trying to use my point about fighting games against me, the point was I trusted in the PR and got a product I didn't like therefore it's best to judge what you see for what it is.
2. From what I've seen, Knack is none of those games. There are plenty of games with basic platforming and brawling. Knack does not focus on the platforming with the level design in these videos that Crash does. The most Crash like action was the chase scenario with Knack escaping that giant. Knack does not focus on brawling in the way of GOW (in these videos). In all the standard vids we saw him walking around bopping goblins 1-2. 1-2. Not much variety in attacks. We didn't see the significance of the his other power ups but to add an elemental ability to his basic actions. Even growth through his pieces seem limited to stage which makes Cerny's past comparisons to Katamari almost void as well. He does that stealth mechanic, but honestly it's really nothing amazing. It's looks like a Lego game, but not as interesting. Am I supposed to just take Cerny's word on it, despite what I see? Just because he's Mark Cerny?
3. People here have already echoed how bland the game looks, even zeopower6 admitted it looked bland. A lot of developers can have a reputable legacy but it doesn't always guarantee quality. That's what I've been saying, and that's what others in this thread has started to echo.
4,
With that said. I'm done with this thread. Drek if you still want to discuss it, my inbox is always open.
1. Feel free to Quote all of my "shitposts" Because I've only made one real negative statement about his PR not reflecting the game, and everyone got defensive. Most of my "shitposts" were replies to overpassionate posters who replied to me. If you want me to get out because I don't have anything positive to say about the game or don't accept the words Cerny is feeding me, fine. I haven't insulted anyone even tried to cooperate with people. You're getting a bit overzealous man. And even still trying to use my point about fighting games against me, the point was I trusted in the PR and got a product I didn't like therefore it's best to judge what you see for what it is.
2. From what I've seen, Knack is none of those games. There are plenty of games with basic platforming and brawling. Knack does not focus on the platforming with the level design in these videos that Crash does. The most Crash like action was the chase scenario with Knack escaping that giant. Knack does not focus on brawling in the way of GOW (in these videos). In all the standard vids we saw him walking around bopping goblins 1-2. 1-2. Not much variety in attacks. We didn't see the significance of the his other power ups but to add an elemental ability to his basic actions. Even growth through his pieces seem limited to stage which makes Cerny's past comparisons to Katamari almost void as well. He does that stealth mechanic, but honestly it's really nothing amazing. It's looks like a Lego game, but not as interesting. Am I supposed to just take Cerny's word on it, despite what I see? Just because he's Mark Cerny?
3. People here have already echoed how bland the game looks, even zeopower6 admitted it looked bland. A lot of developers can have a reputable legacy but it doesn't always guarantee quality. That's what I've been saying, and that's what others in this thread has started to echo.
4,
With that said. I'm done with this thread. Drek if you still want to discuss it, my inbox is always open.
ParenegadeM
Banned
Arc you're making sense. I don't understand why people are getting hyped when the game play doesn't look good and the impressions aren't good from people who played it.
We literally have nothing else to go on. Cerny hype and nostalgia aren't indicative of game quality.
We literally have nothing else to go on. Cerny hype and nostalgia aren't indicative of game quality.
i feel that after 20 years of playing games and loving platformers, i can sorta spot which ones work and which ones don't even with a minimal amount of gameplay. or at least, i know what i like and what appeals to me, usually within the first 10-20 minutes of playtime. still, i tend to give any game a good 4 hours as a trial period to suck me in, because it has happened before (assassin's creed ii, the last of us).
anyway, i remember in 2010 after playing some games at e3, that i came away feeling pretty optimistic about sonic colors, and pretty bored by epic mickey. before either game came out, i made the prediction that sonic colors would be a better game than epic mickey. i hate using metacritic or gamerankings as a measure, but in this case it backs me up so i am using it. woo.
e3 is a place to show off what makes your game great. sonic colors was able to do that in a few levels, and epic mickey showcased simple puzzles and level design. the knack demo was sony's shot at showing us what made this game fun and unique to play. it even jumped around from segment to segment, as though to highlight what made the game interesting. unfortunately, what they showcased was simple and safe. it's like the designers ignored 17 years of advancement in 3d platform game design. on the other hand, it's a decent brawler. the gameplay we were made to play was all about fighting monsters until the next area opened up. it was like god of war lite.
anyway, i remember in 2010 after playing some games at e3, that i came away feeling pretty optimistic about sonic colors, and pretty bored by epic mickey. before either game came out, i made the prediction that sonic colors would be a better game than epic mickey. i hate using metacritic or gamerankings as a measure, but in this case it backs me up so i am using it. woo.
e3 is a place to show off what makes your game great. sonic colors was able to do that in a few levels, and epic mickey showcased simple puzzles and level design. the knack demo was sony's shot at showing us what made this game fun and unique to play. it even jumped around from segment to segment, as though to highlight what made the game interesting. unfortunately, what they showcased was simple and safe. it's like the designers ignored 17 years of advancement in 3d platform game design. on the other hand, it's a decent brawler. the gameplay we were made to play was all about fighting monsters until the next area opened up. it was like god of war lite.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
I dont mind easy modes when the game is first built from the ground up as a challenging game that is then adjusted to accomodate an easier difficulty setting. The problem arises when devs do the opposite, and judging by the audience they're targeting with Knack, I suspect it's the latter.
Arc Christelle
Member
Thank you. I swear after sticking on this thread all night responding to all the other self righteous bs, I was getting beyond annoyed. This one post really just relieved my rage. I'm glad that somebody gets it. I can leave this thread in peace. Once again thank you.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You type really well for a blind man.Looks pretty good to me.
Because this game is hardly intensive, the system it is on is pretty powerful ( with over 6gb of ram) and it's just one of those small details that to me add A LOT to a game.
I was also critical with infamous: SS and pretty much other games, but didn't mind too much since they are large games than have a lot if stuff happening, knack? not so much.
Yes it won't add anything to the game per say, but it's that small detail that would just look cool ( also in that one gif were knack does that attack, no foliage moves at all, ruins the gif)
I'm a sucker for small detail.
The problem is that you and folks like Arc seem to be setting the threshold for "getting hyped" at anyone who hasn't outright dismissed the game at this point. By GAF standards, the hype for this game is very restrained. There's been no megathreads about it, hardly anything more than 5-6 pgs, tops. No one has tried to claim this is a massive AAA title, or a game X "killer", nor tried to suggest it'll be GOTY or even just the best of the launch titles. Most people interested in the game are just hoping for a solid, family-oriented, character-driven game that employs a return to some classic gameplay styles that have somewhat gone out of fashion.
You and others are literally going out of your way to kick over other people's sandcastles. The hype for this game is neither out of control nor is anyone trying to be obnoxious about it, yet you still feel the need to lecture people over this. Manage your own expectations somewhere else, because most of the people who are interested in Knack seem to be managing theirs just fine.
I want this game SO badly to be good. I'm still holding out hope but I don't know. The demo videos from E3 let me down so much in terms of being a platformer (it didn't seem to have much in it at all), and have a running animation like he was gliding on the road. That bugged me a LOT.
Ice Cold
System power has long since stopped being the biggest limiting factor in the decision to leave bodies lying around or not. The tone of the game that the devs want to set is a much larger guiding factor these days. Games leave bodies lying around all the time if they're going for a more serious, "mature" tone, but games aiming for a more lighthearted, family-friendly tone always tend to shy away from this.
Sure, as best as you can. But this has always been a much bigger challenge for games launching on brand new hardware in the coming Fall. In those cases, just showing your game running on the actual hardware is a victory.AniHawk said:
It basically comes down to:
1) Being a Ps4 Exclusive
2) Made by the "god" Mark Cenry
If this was a game by some no name developer that wasn't exclusive, these threads wouldn't go past half a page. But since it is......
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You don't know what you're talking about.
flamingotripod
Member
If they wanted to make a homage to Crash Bandicoot, then why didnt they just reboot the series instead of trying to copy it with bland design and no inspiration? The main character in Knack just looks so bad, seems like Cerny just said fuck it and lets make some generic particle monster.
Really? I played it at E3 and found it extremely bland and boring, everyone I spoke to about the game agreed for the most part.
Also, the hard mode is nothing special - my friend tried it at E3, you just die quicker from enemy attacks. It's more of what I'd call a cheap challenge. The mechanics don't feel very responsive either so it just succeeds in making things more frustrating than fun.
Yes, I can definitely see the game being great for the younger crowd, so Cerny has met his goal there. Doesn't appeal to the core audience at all though from what I've played/seen. I loved Crash Bandicoot and this is nothing like it at all.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Because we've definitely seen the entire game and understand how everything works this far before it's release. Sure. You have no idea what other sequences or similarities there might be in the game.
Also, you said you saw NO similarities between the two and there was a gif in this very thread that as soon as I saw it reminded me of Crash levels (And if you weren't lying to yourself would probably have the same reaction to). Now you're just changing your opinion because you were wrong and have no defense in being wrong. If you really don't see the similarities between that gif and these levels:
http://youtu.be/L2fsyu45DA8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3hXMqtqsRo
Then you're either bullshitting and feigning ignorance to support your own argument or are blind. It was a damn trope in Crash games to have levels designed exactly like that gif.
You can say you don't like the game or it doesn't look interesting to you all you want, I'm not going to tell you you're somehow wrong for not liking something I'm interested in. But to say that gif isn't comparable to PS1 platformers/Crash games is pure uncut bullshit.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Again, you're basing it off a limited amount of footage seen from a game that isn't out for months. You have no idea what else is in the game. I'm not saying that Knack is a 1:1 replica of PS1 era platformers, but to say that there are no similarities is just being willfully blind. A huge reason I got interested in Knack in the first place is because I could see the similarities it shared.
I'm not trying to convince you to like the game, I don't care if you like it or not. That's why I haven't bothered quoting the numerous other people in this thread who said it looks boring and uninspired. If you aren't interested in it, you aren't interested in it. Whatever. I'm just pointing out that there's definitely some Crash influence there that you don't care about seeing because you've already made your decision on if you like the game or not.
AgentChris
Member
Smh.
zeopower6
Member
Just when was that ever stated? At this point people are putting words in Cerny's mouth. He always says that Knack is a character action game and NOT a "PS1 platformer". If anything, people are taking "this borrows from aspects found in Crash Bandicoot, Katamari Damashii, and God of War" and JUST looking at the Crash Bandicoot name thinking that it's some kind of reskinned Crash game. (in which case this would also get slammed)
You know what, god forbid if Crash Bandicoot were to come out in this day and age, people would probably rip it apart. "What the hell is a bandicoot anyway?" "All he's doing is jumping!"
And as for Cerny 'saying it's inspired by Crash but none of the demos so far show you that fact'.... HE'S THE ONE WHO IS DIRECTOR OF THE GAME. He knows just what's going to be in it while we've only seen footage that focuses on some of the different Knacks. That's it! 10 minutes of a 10-15~ hour playthrough really is not all that much. I personally trust that he knows what he's talking about with his references and that eventual reveals will show us just what he means. There's also a lot that has yet to be revealed if what he said a while ago is true.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Me too, but we're not that many
And an Ipad is not really comparable to a gaming console, especially for parents.
I got consoles at launch and they weren't cheap back then. Especially with inflation factored in.
GAF manages 5 page threads like this without breaking a sweat and certainly can do much better than this for the "gods" of this community. You're way overhyping the hype and that's just gonna lead to more "Knack is SO Underrated" threads, so tread carefully.
3rdamention
Member
Lol, you must not have kids. As I type this, my 8 and 6 year old daughters are playing NBA Jam On Fire Edition on my PS3 in the living room. They love videogames, because, well, look their dad is typing on a gaming site right now.
Me AND my kids are getting a PS4 at launch. It is for all of us. Knack will be a game that they could really enjoy. That is why I am willing to give it a shot, for something we can all play.
I really do not see very many games that are catering to the younger demographic of gamers. It is nice to see a family friendly adventure game they can enjoy at launch.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
To me as well, this game has always looked like a next gen Kameo, which in turn also reminded me of old school 3D action platformers. Part game, part tech demo with next gen visual feature A, B and C neatly laid out for people to look at. I'm not too sure if this will stand out compared to Puppeteer and new R&C which should release at about same time, and both look far better in comparison. But I guess the novelty of being on a new console should help.
But you did get your bias get the best of you. Your vitriol is irrational, about people nonetheless, so good luck convincing anyone you're one of those you talk about.
The Crash IP isn't owned by Sony, so a reboot wouldn't be possible unless they bought it back, assuming they wanted to.
More to the point, it's simply one of the inspirations for some of the game's mechanics, not the single guiding light for the game.
You guys are really trying too hard here. There's enough people who are actually looking forward to the game that would agree about some of the more straightforward criticisms of the game as shown so far (bland, non-interactive environments, limited platforming shown, etc.) without having to resort to these more bizarre attempts at criticism.
Sure, but where it is intensive is on poly count, and enemies are composed of bodies, even after being defeated.
Also, it's supposed to be kid friendly, generally the ESRB's view is pile of corpses =/= kid friendly. There isn't really a good way to keep the bodies around and not have them look like corpses.
Rather salient point here. Cerny has always said it's a character action game with inspiration from Crash, GoW, and KD. It's the critics who are claiming it doesn't look enough like Crash or that it doesn't have enough platforming, when Cerny has never said it was a full blown Crash homage or even that it was a platformer.
zeopower6
Member
I really don't even get why Knack is making people seem so frustrated. It's a cute game with a Pixar-ish feel that Cerny helped direct on the side with Japan Studio while he was lead architect on the PS4.
Yes, it looks somewhat 'bland' but they deliberately chose to go for a ~non-Japanese/non-American~ looking art style to appeal to a worldwide audience which ended up resulting in a lot of people not being hot on the game BECAUSE of how nondescript Knack is, since technically he's a 'character' made up of an effect. (interesting to note, Shadow of the Colossus' lead background artist worked on the game and a bunch of Ape Escape's team members are also working on the world)
Yes, the demo levels can be corridor-like, but really, what do you expect when what you're shown are probably a) a tutorial city level to get you used to the controls, b) an enclosed area with high security, and c) an ice cavern... can you really have that 'open' feel in such cases?
And yes, there doesn't seem to be much platforming, but there seems to be a LOT that we aren't seeing from the game.
I get that people aren't too satisfied with what's been shown, but I believe that they've only really scratched the surface when it comes to what will be available in game.
Yes, it looks somewhat 'bland' but they deliberately chose to go for a ~non-Japanese/non-American~ looking art style to appeal to a worldwide audience which ended up resulting in a lot of people not being hot on the game BECAUSE of how nondescript Knack is, since technically he's a 'character' made up of an effect. (interesting to note, Shadow of the Colossus' lead background artist worked on the game and a bunch of Ape Escape's team members are also working on the world)
Yes, the demo levels can be corridor-like, but really, what do you expect when what you're shown are probably a) a tutorial city level to get you used to the controls, b) an enclosed area with high security, and c) an ice cavern... can you really have that 'open' feel in such cases?
And yes, there doesn't seem to be much platforming, but there seems to be a LOT that we aren't seeing from the game.
I get that people aren't too satisfied with what's been shown, but I believe that they've only really scratched the surface when it comes to what will be available in game.
this was the first thing they showed off on the ps4. so people had reason to believe this was done for a reason, like it's going to be something to blow people's minds like super mario galaxy, or to a lesser extent, rayman legends or sonic lost world. it doesn't do anything new, and what it seems to be doing isn't particularly interesting.
the art style isn't what makes it bland. it's the design that makes it bland. every nsmb game after the first one closely resembles the first, but the level design in nsmb2, nsmbw, and apparently nsmbu (a game i haven't played) is pretty damn good, and it's easy to tell that it's pretty damn good when you play them. knack is very basic, and doesn't even want to try to do one thing new or one thing well.
i think the concern is that a demo is supposed to be representative of the game, and what they showed off wasn't enticing.
they call it a platformer, and then show no platforming. then when the game is in a playable state, they elect to have knack at different sizes brawling through the different levels. instead of showcasing stealth, brawling, and platforming, it's knack small, knack medium, and knack big... with some stealth.
i think it is a confusing move to hold back until after the ps4 reveal and after the e3 event to showcase wow wizz-bang level design and cool ideas. more than that, i think it's highly unlikely.
zeopower6
Member
How many times does it have to be reiterated that they've never called this game a platformer? It has Crash Bandicoot-esque gameplay elements, but is mainly a 'character action game'.
And no one ever said it'd be 'wizz bang level design' or that 'cool ideas' are on the way, but the goal of the demo at E3 was to show off different Knacks as far as I recall from Cerny's interviews and not to show off every little aspect of Knack's gameplay.
i could have sworn i saw something from some sony guy about it being a platformer, but i was mistaken. sorry about that.
i stand by the rest though, that as a brawler it's not very interesting, nor was there an attempt to have it stand out among other titles in the genre. that would be fine if you're game republic, but i suppose i expected more from the people behind this.
zeopower6
Member
I don't think it was ever intended to compete with -insert other titles here- but rather, it was made as a game to stand out within the PS4 lineup. I find that too many games try to 'stand out' but then their attempts fall short or they just don't deliver on many levels. Does anyone making a new game ALWAYS have to push boundaries? Cerny even says... "My goal for this game is that I hope it will be everyone's second purchase."... meaning that this game isn't necessarily being made IMO to wow people or be the title that has people screaming "DAY 1... DAY 1 SO HARD". (for me personally, it's the only launch title I want but that's just me)
As for the "Knack was shown first" thing... it seems it was simply because Cerny was on stage talking about the PS4 already, so why not have him show off Knack while he's up there?
i don't think rayman origins pushes any boundaries, but it stands out in its genre as one of the very best in years.