Support NeoGAF

[Dr. Malik]

And it looks like Mr. Rapist is going to appeal the fine.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2011-04-13-BRYANTSLUR_N.htm

But he still takes "responsibility." What a stand up guy!

He is just going to drag out the issue and create more awareness, with a new headline in a day or two.

 

[Kinitari]

no, they are used differently, with one being used among friends. its really funny in here. You have to say stuff three times before people get what you are saying. Dev, you are doing a beautiful job. At trolling. You ignore most of what I say and then continue on your rampage. I told you I'm not doing your so called "Oppression Olympics". But it looks like you are.

I'm going to repost something I said earlier.

Okay, here is some more context.

If a gay man and a black man are standing next to each other on the street, observing as people walk by, and you called a random bystander nearby a faggot, and another random bystander nearby a nigger, should the black man observing or the gay man observing be more offended?

What's your opinion Londa?

 

[SUPREME1]

Was Mercury Fred raped by Kobe?


Also, about the fine... He probably just wants the amount reduced. Allen Iverson was fined for the same thing and it was only $5,000. Allen Iverson was also making $20,000,000+ at the time.

 

[roll456]

And it looks like Mr. Rapist is going to appeal the fine.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2011-04-13-BRYANTSLUR_N.htm

But he still takes "responsibility." What a stand up guy!

This is digusting. He was never found guilty of anything. Don't forget, a few years ago, YOU would be arrested for sodomy too. Don't bring that shit into this.

Was Mercury Fred raped by Kobe?

Maybe he tried to buy Kobe a drink, but Kobe shot him down.

 

[Devolution]

Was Mercury Fred raped by Kobe?

Is this necessary?

This is digusting. He was never found guilty of anything. Don't forget, a few years ago, YOU would be arrested for sodomy too. Don't bring that shit into this.

Wow. Comparing consensual sodomy with whether or not someone else got consent. This thread jesus.

 

[oneHeero]

I don't know who you are but all your posts in here have been hilariously ignorant and terrible.

So quick to snapback, just because some posters feel you make good points doesnt mean some posters wont think the opposite. No need to get all defensive about it.

The rest isnt directed strictly to you Devo, simply putting my input.

Especially when people shouldnt have to cater to others sensitivity. That's life. There is no perfect society and there will never be a perfect society because we cannot control eachother's thoughts or actions. So let's not try to act like we should force "role models" to act as a saint. No one thinks its ok he said it, but it's been said and he has made a statement about it. It shouldnt have to go farther then that, and that shouldnt imply that people think its ok because of the context in which is was used. If Kobe went on some anti-gay rampage then yea, and even though the context may have not been there everyone acknowledges he shouldnt have said it. The media is simply making this larger then it needs to be. Less kids/people would be aware of their role model saying such a thing if everyone wasnt trying to crucify him.

 

[Gaborn]

Was Mercury Fred raped by Kobe?


Also, about the fine... He probably just wants the amount reduced. Allen Iverson was fined for the same thing and it was only $5,000. Allen Iverson was also making $20,000,000+ at the time.

It should have been higher if they weren't going to suspend him. Should've been 2 game checks, or one game suspension.

 

[roll456]

Wow. Comparing consensual sodomy with whether or not someone else got consent. This thread jesus.

As far as anyone can say, it was consensual. It was never proved that he did anything illegal. You don't have to slander his name to make a point.

 

[btkadams]

Was Mercury Fred raped by Kobe?

This is digusting. He was never found guilty of anything. Don't forget, a few years ago, YOU would be arrested for sodomy too. Don't bring that shit into this.

i think this thread should be closed. nothing is even getting discussed properly anymore. people have their sides and it's just getting ugly.

 

[SUPREME1]

Is this necessary?

Well, I'm trying to figure out why Mercury Fred keeps calling him a rapist. Does he know something we don't?

As far as I know, Kobe's never even been on trial for rape. So yeah, just trying to get some clarification.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I couldn't understand how this thread was still going, then I come in here and see this:

"If a gay man and a black man are standing next to each other on the street, observing as people walk by, and you called a random bystander nearby a faggot, and another random bystander nearby a nigger, should the black man observing or the gay man observing be more offended?"

SMH and back away.

 

[Devolution]

So quick to snapback, just because some posters feel you make good points doesnt mean some posters wont think the opposite. No need to get all defensive about it.

The rest isnt directed strictly to you Devo, simply putting my input.

Especially when people shouldnt have to cater to others sensitivity. That's life. There is no perfect society and there will never be a perfect society because we cannot control eachother's thoughts or actions. So let's not try to act like we should force "role models" to act as a saint. No one thinks its ok he said it, but it's been said and he has made a statement about it. It shouldnt have to go farther then that, and that shouldnt imply that people think its ok because of the context in which is was used. If Kobe went on some anti-gay rampage then yea, and even though the context may have not been there everyone acknowledges he shouldnt have said it. The media is simply making this larger then it needs to be. Less kids/people would be aware of their role model saying such a thing if everyone wasnt trying to crucify him.

This thread has gone beyond discussing Kobe, I haven't even touched upon his little outburst in pages. The fact of the matter is, his defense force is some of the worst defense of bigotry and discriminatory slurs I've seen in a while. This thread should just be closed at this point.

 

[SUPREME1]

It should have been higher if they weren't going to suspend him. Should've been 2 game checks, or one game suspension.

Why?

Precedent says he should be fined $5,000 and that is all.

 

[oneHeero]

yeah, it'd probably be better for him to just pay it and let it blow over to be honest. appealing it is just going to piss some people off and make the whole thing hang over him longer.

seriously? how is calling someone a faggot or some other slur the same as taking the lord's name in vain?

Other posters just went over this. Apparently it doesnt matter, offending someone is offending someone plain and simple. Context isnt the problem, the fact that he thinks its ok to say it is the problem.

Granted, I too believe the example was lite and not comparable to nigger and faggot, but if we're going to bitch about how we shouldnt compare nigger to faggot (yet use it to make an example) because the degree of who's history is worse shouldnt matter than why shouldnt that imply to anything else in comparison?

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I've been a four-eyed fat nigger faggot for going on 35 years now, and it bugs me when gays bring up the nigger comparison. I have experienced more outward racism in the gay community than I ever did growing up in Texas.

 

[Devolution]

Other posters just went over this. Apparently it doesnt matter, offending someone is offending someone plain and simple. Context isnt the problem, the fact that he thinks its ok to say it is the problem.

Granted, I too believe the example was lite and not comparable to nigger and faggot, but if we're going to bitch about how we shouldnt compare nigger to faggot (yet use it to make an example) because the degree of who's history is worse shouldnt matter than why shouldnt that imply to anything else in comparison?

Man them deities, so oppressed.

 

[numble]

It should have been higher if they weren't going to suspend him. Should've been 2 game checks, or one game suspension.

How does this fit in with other player punishments? Kevin Garnett says similar stuff to refs out of camera shot, and gets technical fouls with maximum fines of $5000/each. Chris Kaman was sexually violated by Reggie Evans, and Reggie only got a $10,000 fine, no suspension.

 

[Gaborn]

Why?

Precedent says he should be fined $5,000 and that is all.

just because the league under-fined people before does not mean they should continue to do so.

 

[oneHeero]

This thread has gone beyond discussing Kobe, I haven't even touched upon his little outburst in pages. The fact of the matter is, his defense force is some of the worst defense of bigotry and discriminatory slurs I've seen in a while. This thread should just be closed at this point.

Of course its no longer about Kobe, but that example still touches on the subject the closest.

Do you really expect the word Faggot/nigger/gay/etc be banned from being used? I mean we all know its inappropriate to use, but you cant control who uses it and when. Please dont reply with a typical "so that makes it ok?" because it doesnt make it ok. It simply means its something that cant be fixed, we can only continue to educate people that there is nothing wrong with being gay or black.

Man them deities, so oppressed.

slurp slurp, derp derp

 

[Kinitari]

I couldn't understand how this thread was still going, then I come in here and see this:

"If a gay man and a black man are standing next to each other on the street, observing as people walk by, and you called a random bystander nearby a faggot, and another random bystander nearby a nigger, should the black man observing or the gay man observing be more offended?"

SMH and back away.

What's wrong with the question?

 

[SUPREME1]

just because the league under-fined people before does not mean they should continue to do so.

Just because YOU are outraged, real or not, does not mean he should be fined in excess.

 

[btkadams]

I've been a four-eyed fat nigger faggot for going on 35 years now, and it bugs me when gays bring up the nigger comparison. I have experienced more outward racism in the gay community than I ever did growing up in Texas.

I'm not sure if that is actually relevant to the discussion but I'm sorry to hear that you've experienced that. I personally have never witnessed it but that doesn't mean it's not the case so I understand.

 

[commish]

I don't know who you are but all your posts in here have been hilariously ignorant and terrible.

Ha, the irony. You have that youthful ignorance of someone who is 18 (invariably from California) and, gosh darnit, believes the world should be like THIS!

Which is fine, of course. I am all about change!

 

[Kinitari]

Other posters just went over this. Apparently it doesnt matter, offending someone is offending someone plain and simple. Context isnt the problem, the fact that he thinks its ok to say it is the problem.

Granted, I too believe the example was lite and not comparable to nigger and faggot, but if we're going to bitch about how we shouldnt compare nigger to faggot (yet use it to make an example) because the degree of who's history is worse shouldnt matter than why shouldnt that imply to anything else in comparison?

I'd go far as to even agree with you. Anyone can be offended at anything, my issue isn't with the word being spoken, but the idea that some people put forth that the word "faggot" is no longer offensive. It is, it's extremely offensive to a large portion of people. I'm sure making fun of religion does the same thing.

Just to be clear, my point is never "this is absolutely right, and this is absolutely wrong" - I would love to have my sense of morality be universal, but it doesn't work that way. All I want is for people to understand, you offend gay people with the word faggot, greatly so - maybe not all, but enough that if you don't want to throw around offensive slurs that target homosexuals, maybe stop using that word. If you don't care, well, do whatever you want.

 

[commish]

Well, I'm trying to figure out why Mercury Fred keeps calling him a rapist. Does he know something we don't?

As far as I know, Kobe's never even been on trial for rape. So yeah, just trying to get some clarification.

Defending Kobe on the rape issue is a loser of a position. You're in the minority, there, if you think just because he didn't go on trial he's innocent.

 

[numble]

just because the league under-fined people before does not mean they should continue to do so.

You think a $605,000+ fine is reasonable for such statements? If you think the league is not doing enough as a private party, we can try to pass a law to force private parties to appropriately fine their employees for such statements.

 

[Dresden]

People say dumb shit in the heat of the moment, not too surprising, tbh.

Besides, Kobe is a dick, so I'm not surprised that the dude is probably a pedonazihomophobecannibal.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Just because YOU are outraged, real or not, does not mean he should be fined in excess.

It proves a point that this kind of speech isn't cool in professional sports.

So, yeah, he should be fined more.

 

[LyleLanley]

What's wrong with the question?

It's a ridiculous question. They are both offensive words but who's to say how offended another person "should" be.

 

[Gaborn]

You think a $605,000+ fine is reasonable for such statements? If you think the league is not doing enough as a private party, we can try to pass a law to force private parties to appropriately fine their employees for such statements.

I think a fine that would actually cause him to rethink his behavior is reasonable, yes. Kobe isn't going to hardly NOTICE a 100k fine, I guarantee you he'd notice a $605,000 fine. Tie fines to game checks to actually affect superstars.

 

[Dead Man]

You think a $605,000+ fine is reasonable for such statements? If you think the league is not doing enough as a private party, we can try to pass a law to force private parties to appropriately fine their employees for such statements.

I think any fine levied should be commensurate with the pay the individual receives in order to have a standard preventative power.

 

[Kinitari]

It's a ridiculous question. They are both offensive words but who's to say how offended another person "should" be.

That was my whole point . Many, earlier on in this thread, were saying that 'nigger' was much more offensive than 'faggot' thus, they should not be compared. My point was trying to... paint a picture where both words were used in juxtaposition.

 

[LyleLanley]

I think a fine that would actually cause him to rethink his behavior is reasonable, yes. Kobe isn't going to hardly NOTICE a 100k fine, I guarantee you he'd notice a $605,000 fine.

Athletes say horrible things on the court constantly, why should Kobe be fined so much more than anyone else?

 

[dream]

I think a fine that would actually cause him to rethink his behavior is reasonable, yes. Kobe isn't going to hardly NOTICE a 100k fine, I guarantee you he'd notice a $605,000 fine. Tie fines to game checks to actually affect superstars.

That would just make Kobe hate "fucking faggots" more.

 

[Gaborn]

Athletes say horrible things on the court constantly, why should Kobe be fined so much more than anyone else?

1. It was caught on tape.

2. It was towards a ref.

3. It was a specific slur with a long history against a particular group.

Like I said, I'd treat someone who used a slur against other groups similarly.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Okay. I would personally like to believe that Kobe was caught up in the heat of the moment and was pissed off and said something that he had no second thoughts about. He called someone a faggot. For whatever reason he did. I personally have said things as a child that I consider offense, but I have also said those same words joking around with friends to this day. Its because you do not realize the true offense behind the word. I really understand why people take offense to this scenario. But I also really do believe that he should not be hanged for it. Shit happens. move along.

 

[numble]

It proves a point that this kind of speech isn't cool in professional sports.

So, yeah, he should be fined more.

How is $100,000 fine not proving a point that this kind of speech isn't cool?
They issue technical fouls for actions/speech that they don't believe isn't cool, which is $2000-5000 fine per technical foul, like cursing at a ref. This is 20-50x a technical foul fine.

I think a fine that would actually cause him to rethink his behavior is reasonable, yes. Kobe isn't going to hardly NOTICE a 100k fine, I guarantee you he'd notice a $605,000 fine. Tie fines to game checks to actually affect superstars.

I think any fine levied should be commensurate with the pay the individual receives in order to have a standard preventative power.

How does he not notice $100k. He notices the PR hit, he notices the hit on his checkbook. He potentially loses endorsements. He lost McDonalds, Nutella and Sprite over the sexual assault case, you still think he will do this again?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Okay. I would personally like to believe that Kobe was caught up in the heat of the moment and was pissed off and said something that he had no second thoughts about. He called someone a faggot. For whatever reason he did. I personally have said things as a child that I consider offense, but I have also said those same words joking around with friends to this day. Its because you do not realize the true offense behind the word. I really understand why people take offense to this scenario. But I also really do believe that he should not be hanged for it. Shit happens. move along.

Just because 'you do not realize the true offense behind the word' doesn't mean it magically disappears.

I've said this at least ten times this thread. It keeps being necessary.

 

[Gaborn]

Okay. I would personally like to believe that Kobe was caught up in the heat of the moment and was pissed off and said something that he had no second thoughts about. He called someone a faggot. For whatever reason he did. I personally have said things as a child that I consider offense, but I have also said those same words joking around with friends to this day. Its because you do not realize the true offense behind the word. I really understand why people take offense to this scenario. But I also really do believe that he should not be hanged for it. Shit happens. move along.

Let's say you have a friend who is white. He gets into a HUGE argument with a friend who is black. They're both seething with each other. The white friend walks away and you hear him say "fucking nigger" softly. Is there any way you'd just chalk it up to his anger?

 

[BakedPigeon]

Just because 'you do not realize the true offense behind the word' doesn't mean it magically disappears.

I've said this at least ten times this thread. It keeps being necessary.

Lets stop laying the little bitch scenario and talk like humans here. He obviously offended people, but I do not think he really intended to offend someone personally. His emotions got the better of him and he is paying for it. What is the big fucking deal.

 

[levious]

2. It was towards a ref.

I think people are losing sight of this, would have been ejected in the NFL on the spot.

 

[Londa]

You were certainly playing Oppression Olympics earlier, what's the matter now? You're just gonna keep saying "but they're used different" and not provide context as to why? They're the same, they're slurs used to diminish a marginalized group and both have the same context of being thrown around when people have been beaten, mutilated or even killed. So what's your point here?

IF YOU READ MY COMMENT YOU WILL SEE MY REASON AS TO WHY THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

I am not yelling I just want her to not skip this.

 

[Gaborn]

I think people are losing sight of this, would have been ejected in the NFL on the spot.

Yup. Also, try calling your boss at work a "fucking fag" and see what kind of response you get.

 

[Kinitari]

Let's say you have a friend who is white. He gets into a HUGE argument with a friend who is black. They're both seething with each other. The white friend walks away and you hear him say "fucking nigger" softly. Is there any way you'd just chalk it up to his anger?

To be fair, a more accurate example would be if your white friend was getting mad at another white friend for doing something... I don't know, he finds abhorrent, like cockblocking him or something. And instead of saying "Dude, stop being such a cockblocker!" he says "Dude, stop being such a nigger!"

 

[BakedPigeon]

Let's say you have a friend who is white. He gets into a HUGE argument with a friend who is black. They're both seething with each other. The white friend walks away and you hear him say "fucking nigger" softly. Is there any way you'd just chalk it up to his anger?

Why does it have to be a black vs white racist scenario?

 

[commish]

I think people are losing sight of this, would have been ejected in the NFL on the spot.

Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how much shit is said "to the ref" from NFL benches? You have to be kidding. I'm not defending Kobe on what he said, but you guys are going way too far. He didn't say it during an interview, he didn't run up to the ref and say it to him, etc. Sheesh.

 

[btkadams]

Lets stop laying the little bitch scenario and talk like humans here. He obviously offended people, but I do not think he really intended to offend someone personally. His emotions got the better of him and he is paying for it. What is the big fucking deal.

but he's not paying for it. he's appealing it.

 

[DanteFox]

Let's say you have a friend who is white. He gets into a HUGE argument with a friend who is black. They're both seething with each other. The white friend walks away and you hear him say "fucking nigger" softly. Is there any way you'd just chalk it up to his anger?

was the ref gay?

 

[numble]

I think people are losing sight of this, would have been ejected in the NFL on the spot.

He'd be ejected if the ref heard it. Joey Crawford ejected Tim Duncan for *laughing* at him. And refs have ejected players for clapping sarcastically towards a ref's call.

Would the NFL ref eject a NFL player for something he said on the bench that was caught on camera?

 

[levious]

Why does it have to be a black vs white racist scenario?

it wasn't racist, the dude in the scenario had a black friend

He'd be ejected if the ref heard it. Would the ref eject a NFL player for something he said on the bench that was caught on camera?

bad assumption on my part then, I thought he had the attention of the ref when saying it. But if it was caught on tape and publicized like this, an NFL player would get suspended in my opinion.