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[remember_spinal]

Kojimbo is pushing 60. How many games does he have left in him? 2? 3?

This was always my thinking as well. It may not be in the cards for him or sony to want to commit to a lifelong acquisition considering he kind of is the studio.

If sony contracted him on a multi game deal like say, Quantic Dream, by the time he's done he's already at the point of retirement. Plus, he wants to do film.

If he's making a game every 4 years at best, I'd say he has about two more AAA games left in him. I'm sure one will be for Sony already.

Its the same with Miyazaki, although he's much younger, it's like there is a trade-off on the amount of games he will produce vs what you're paying for the entire studio. It would be cheaper to just contract them for an exclusive, it has almost the same effect at that point.

I think thats the problem with a lot of japanese devs, they kind of all have that figure head/rockstar of the company where everything else filters downwards. It doesn't really work for longevity which is why i dont see a lot of japanese buy outs. We've seen so many japanese devs and franchises die over the last two decades once their top dog left for greener pastures.

For example, we all know Cory barlog because of God of War 2018 but they have a system where if he wants to do something else someone else can step into his role. Same thing with Naughty Dog, Neil Druckmann didn't have to do Uncharted Lost legacy and it was just as good if not better than 4.

Thats what sony wants, they want studios that can put out multiple games a generation under different creative directors

 

[bitbydeath]

You forget that for maybe 2 years from these 6 years he is working in a new game or sequel.

Death Stranding was made and delivered in record time in that AAA industry… few developers can pull that.

3 years now, he's been working on Silent Hill an undisclosed horror game since wrapping up Death Stranding in 2019.

 

[yurinka]

Second party doesn't exists.
It is a journal term not used by industry.

Insomniac was always 3rd-party working in contract with Sony.

What I wrote is 100% right.



Outside studio means 3rd-party.

What the Insomniac CM wrote there was wrong, 'second party' is formally used for the first party games developed by 3rd party (not owned by the platform holder) studios:

Kojimbo is pushing 60. How many games does he have left in him? 2? 3?

Designing and directing himself I assume maybe 2 or 3. But I assume he may move to a more 'secondary', less intense role where he barely provides rough ideas and overviews the team, like what Miyamoto did since the N64 days.

10 years ago Kojima said "I will make games until the day I die", but I assume that at some point he'll move to a more relaxed position, quitting from directing and designing, maybe in 5 year or so from now, before he finally retires maybe almost at 70.

 

[Captain Toad]

A. A designer messed up and put something that does not belong there. Since it is about PS studios not the IP's
B. A designer did not messed up but spoiled the surprised by updating the artwork too soon

Both options do not seem good for the designer.

I doubt they have their single designer choosing which studios/games to put in their designs without instructions from management.

 

[Zeroing]

I doubt they have their single designer choosing which studios/games to put in their designs without instructions from management.

Exactly!

 

[yurinka]

That's what I said to add nuance. Yo also have the Nintendo deal with capcom as an example.

We also have to remember that RE2 got later released on N54, and then the main PS1 RE games got ported to DC and later to more modern consoles. Capcom loves to port and rehash stuff.

I doubt they have their single designer choosing which studios/games to put in their designs without instructions from management.

I bet the instructions were: "Hey, we didn' t update the page for a while. Please make a new banner featuring or most recent main releases: Death Stranding Director's Cut, MLB 22, GT7 and Horizon 2 and some games more"

 

[ethomaz]

What the Insomniac CM wrote there was wrong, 'second party' is formally used for the first party games developed by 3rd party (not owned by the platform holder) studios:

Read the picture.

Second party games… that in formally means first-party IPs developed by 3rd-party studios.

Second party studios doesn't exists… all studios you guys call "second-party" are 3rd-party studios… they are independent.

 

[ethomaz]

It was already explained.

Yeap I was said was right from the very start.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Yeap I was said was right from the very start.

Nope.I will be even more clear about it. If you don't get it, Ana Sarkissian is going to visit you this night.

First party = Wife

Second Party = Concubine

Third Party = Affair.

 

[akaFullmetal]

They will of course decline till it happens. Either way do what you want kojima.

 

[Corndog]

Independent to do whatever he wants....as a Sony Playstation Studio.

Until new management comes along and decides to change things.

 

[Calverz]

"And will continue to be an independent studio"

 

[Dolodolo]

He is not even working for Sony. He is working on a Xbox exclusive.

Kojima has said several times that he has several projects in development.
One large and one small (Experimental)

Moreover, if you take Grubb's hearing as a basis, then be so kind as to listen to him in full.
Grubb has said several times that this game is so early in production, which is literally only in Kojima's head.

 

[ethomaz]

Nope.I will be even more clear about it. If you don't get it, Ana Sarkissian is going to visit you this night.

First party = Wife

Second Party = Concubine

Third Party = Affair.

Except there is no second-party studio.

Or you are first-party or you are 3rd-party.

BTW concubine is yet = first-party… you "own" both Wife and Combines (of course that in countries that allow concubines).

 

[N30RYU]

Isn't Bungie too?

 

[yurinka]

Read the picture.

Second party games… that in formally means first-party IPs developed by 3rd-party studios.

Second party studios doesn't exists… all studios you guys call "second-party" are 3rd-party studios… they are independent.

Where did I use "2nd party studios"? I defined/explained the differences between 1st, 2nd and 3rd party games and 1st and 3rd party studios.

Isn't Bungie too?

Sony bought 100% of Bungie stocks, meaning now Sony owns Bungie and their current and future IPs. And as part of Sony, any future game published or developed by Bungie will be a game published or developed by Sony.

Sony doesn't own Kojiima Productions. But Sony owns the Death Stranding brand and their PS Studios publishing label published Death Stranding.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Finally, a real source and not an attention-seeking journalist. I'll take Kojima's word for it.

Spoiler

...until they're announced as a PS 1P team anyway. Blue Point ALSO said they would stay independent when their leak came out, and it happened anyway. I smell a trend here ...

Isn't Bungie too?

Technically speaking, yes. Which is probably more of a reason why even this tweet doesn't mean too much to absolutely confirm or deny something's happening between KP & Sony.

At times, I'm surprised I have to actually explain how these misguided "gotchas" are silly. But here we go.

Bluepoint did not lie. "Is a fully independent and self funded studio" present tense. No lie detected

Kojima-san did not speak exclusively in present tense. He clearly said that not only Kojima Productions is independent, but it will continue to be. And if someone's wondering, he said the same in Japanese so nothing is lost in translation.

There's a big difference between sticking to something technically correct as Bluepoint did not to spoil an announcement, and plainly lying. If Kojipro was in the process of being acquired, what Kojima-san said would have been an actual lie. There's an abyss between the two.

Incidentally, no graphic designer is gonna be fired. Death Stranding has likely been added to that banner under instruction from above for a simple reason. It is a PlayStation Studios game. PSStudios published it and provided all sorts of support. It's exactly the same case as Microsoft Flight Simulator, which is developed by a completely independent studio but published by Microsoft.

Good points, BUT Bungie has been acquired recently and are also still independent.

Sooo, Kojima's tweets don't really deny any sort of acquisition if I'm being perfectly honest. It's just the likelihood that if such has occurred, it'll be functionally similar to what is present with Bungie.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Except there is no second-party studio.

Or you are first-party or you are 3rd-party.

BTW concubine is yet = first-party… you "own" both Wife and Combines (of course that in countries that allow concubines).

 

[Muddy]

Except there is no second-party studio.

Or you are first-party or you are 3rd-party.

BTW concubine is yet = first-party… you "own" both Wife and Combines (of course that in countries that allow concubines).

Technically there is Second Party.

Activisions deal with Bungie made them Second Party. An independent studio under a contractual agreement.

Hal Laboratory is another with Nintendo.

Quantic Dream was too with Sony and their 3 game deal.

 

[Tripolygon]

Where did I use "2nd party studios"? I defined/explained the differences between 1st, 2nd and 3rd party games and 1st and 3rd party studios.

A game is either 1st or 3rd Party, there are no 2nd party games. From an IP ownership standpoint.

Spiderman is a 3rd party IP developed by a 1st party studio Insomniac
MLB: The Show is a 3rd party IP developed by a 1st party studio Sony San Diego

Sony San Diego is not a 2nd party studio because they now make games that release on Microsoft and Nintendo Platforms.

A 3rd party studio can make games exclusively for one platform. That does not make them 2nd party studio, they are still 3rd party studio making exclusive games.

Colloquially we refer to them as 2nd party and it is part of the game's lexicon but officially they are 1st or 3rd party studios and IPs.

 

[Muddy]

Where did I use "2nd party studios"? I defined/explained the differences between 1st, 2nd and 3rd party games and 1st and 3rd party studios.


Sony bought 100% of Bungie stocks, meaning now Sony owns Bungie and their current and future IPs. And as part of Sony, any future game published or developed by Bungie will be a game published or developed by Sony.

Sony doesn't own Kojiima Productions. But Sony owns the Death Stranding brand and their PS Studios publishing label published Death Stranding.

Agree.

Bungie are Sony first party operating independently.

No different to Marvel and Lucasfilms operating independently under their names. Doesn't change the fact that Disney own their asses.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Technically there is Second Party.

Activisions deal with Bungie made them Second Party. An independent studio under a contractual agreement.

Hal Laboratory is another with Nintendo.

Quantic Dream was too with Sony and their 3 game deal.

Those are called third party vendors

 

[JimRyanGOAT]

Interesting he'd go out to debunk this immediately but not the Blue Box/Silent Hill rumours.

 

[Muddy]

Those are called third party vendors

Second-party developer is a colloquial term often used by gaming enthusiasts and media to describe game studios who take development contracts from platform holders and develop games exclusive to that platform, i.e. a non-owned developer making games for a first-party company.

[h3][/h3]

 

[Tripolygon]

Technically there is Second Party.

Activisions deal with Bungie made them Second Party. An independent studio under a contractual agreement.

Hal Laboratory is another with Nintendo.

Activision and Bungie in that instance are both 3rd party studios, Bungie is a 3rd party studio making a 3rd party IP owned by Activision.

 

[TheGodfather07]

its going to happen eventually though. its obvious. unless kojima is just totally against it but why would he be? he will get all the funding and resources he needs without having to worry. look how generous sony were in even letting him make something like death stranding. how many publishers out there would allow a big budget AAA delivery game? most would decline instantly.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Second-party developer is a colloquial term often used by gaming enthusiasts and media to describe game studios who take development contracts from platform holders and develop games exclusive to that platform, i.e. a non-owned developer making games for a first-party company.

[h3][/h3]

Again with that wikipedia quote. It's still wrong no matter how many times it's used

 

[Tripolygon]

Again with that wikipedia quote. It's still wrong no matter how many times it's used

The Wikipedia quote is not "wrong". 2nd party is the colloquial term we use to describe the phenomenon.

 

[Varteras]

Thankfully he didn't waste much time putting this rumor to rest. For those who love speculating on whose next on the acquisition front, Kojima Productions can safely be crossed off the list. As far as independent studios go, this was one of the big ones still left and a constant source of speculation. Things have become significantly narrowed down in that respect. I think at this point Kojima wants to finish out his career as a game developer not being beholden to anyone but himself while pursuing his film ambitions. It's entirely possibly that some time in the future he just sells off his studio or puts someone else in charge who ends up doing it as he bows out. But even if that does happen, we're probably talking at least 10 years from now and not worth speculating on it at this time.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

The Wikipedia quote is not "wrong". 2nd party is the colloquial term we use to describe the phenomenon.

You can use it as much as you want. That "phenomenon" is called a third party vendor. That's it.

 

[Tripolygon]

You can use it as much as you want. That "phenomenon" is called a third party vendor. That's it.

It is wrong in the same way the word "Selfie" is wrong. It is officially part of our lexicon. 2nd party is part of the game's industry terminology.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It is wrong in the same way the word "Selfie" is wrong. It is officially part of our lexicon. 2nd party is part of the game's industry terminology.

Hardly anyone actually uses that terminology. It pops up once in a blue moon or in forum debates like now. Unlike first-party or third party which is actually commonly used, and that's because those are the only two words you actually need to define the state of the industry.

 

[ethomaz]

Technically there is Second Party.

Activisions deal with Bungie made them Second Party. An independent studio under a contractual agreement.

Hal Laboratory is another with Nintendo.

Quantic Dream was too with Sony and their 3 game deal.

Bungie was technically a 3rd-party studio after they left MS until Sony brought them.
Quantic Dream is technically a 3rd-party studio.
I have no ideia what is Hal Laborayory but technically it is not second-party… it could be 1st or 3rd-party studio.

TECNICALLY there is no second-party studio.

 

[phil_t98]

It sold better than boodborne for example, more or less than Days Gone. Not as much as Ghost of Tsurumi. So what?.

This market can't sustain a Kojima Game. IF Kojima wants to keep making those kinds of games.

simple answer, make them Multiplatform. more sales

 

[ethomaz]

Those are called third party vendors

Yes… 100% correct.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

simple answer, make them Multiplatform. more sales

Who's gonna pay tho? (the development that is).

 

[yurinka]

A game is either 1st or 3rd Party, there are no 2nd party games. From an IP ownership standpoint.

Spiderman is a 3rd party IP developed by a 1st party studio Insomniac
MLB: The Show is a 3rd party IP developed by a 1st party studio Sony San Diego

Sony San Diego is not a 2nd party studio because they now make games that release on Microsoft and Nintendo Platforms.

A 3rd party studio can make games exclusively for one platform. That does not make them 2nd party studio, they are still 3rd party studio making exclusive games.

Colloquially we refer to them as 2nd party and it is part of the game's lexicon but officially they are 1st or 3rd party studios and IPs.

The IP ownership is unrelated to decide if a game it's 1st, 2nd or 3rd party. 1st party games are the ones published by the platform holder of that platform. The 3rd party games are the ones published by someone who isn't the platform holder.

2nd party games are the ones published by the platform holder (so 2nd party games are also 1st party games) but developed by a 3rd party studio. There are people at Sony with "Head of global second party games" on their job title:

1st party studios are the ones owned by a platform holder. 3rd party studios are the ones not owned by platform holders. 2nd party studios don't exist.

Sony San Diego, Bungie and Insomniac are now oned by Sony, so they are 1st party. From Software, Kojima Productions or Square aren't owned by sony, so are 3rd party teams.

Spider-Man is first party game: it has been published and developed by a platform holder. Regarding MLB The Show, on PlayStation is a 1st party game: published and developed by its platform holder. On other consoles MLB isn't published or developed by their platform holder, so it's a 3rd party game there. Spider-Man and MLB are licensed games, like the Star Wars or Indiana Jones from Microsoft. Someone else (Disney or MLB) owns these IPs licenses them to use them to make their first party games, which are 1st party because they are publisher by the platform holder.

3rd party games, exclusive or not, are 3rd party because they aren't published by the platform holder. These games stop being 3rd party and become both 2nd and 1st party when it's the case of a 3rd party studio (developer not owned by the platform holder) whose game gets published by the platform holder.

A game developed by a 3rd party studio continues being a 3rd party game if it's exclusive but not published by the platform holder. In this it's called a 3rd party exclusive.

 

[ethomaz]

Isn't Bungie too?

Yes.

Being independent is not related to who own you… you can be an independent studio that makes all false and be owned by somebody else.
Independence is more related to the administrative model of the company.

Bungie is a first-party studio but works in a different dependent model.

Most Sony studios works in independent model… that is why they have CEO, administrative board, RH, career plans, salary, roles, functions, policies not related to Sony themselves.

PD, Naughty Dogs, Santa Monica are all independents like Bungie.

Of course being independent doesn't mean they don't have to show results to the owner company… and doesn't means the owner can't take control over it when needed or after the things are not going well.

After all good results keep your independently.

 

[phil_t98]

Who's gonna pay tho? (the development that is).

do you know the money the company has? do you know and exact figure?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

do you know the money the company has? do you know and exact figure?

Not enough to make another AAA koji/movie.

 

[phil_t98]

Not enough to make another AAA koji/movie.

So you know what cash they have? Yes or no?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So you know what cash they have? Yes or no?

Yes, I know, but I cannot reveal the exact amount. My source would not appreciate that.

 

[phil_t98]

Yes, I know, but I cannot reveal the exact amount. My source would not appreciate that.

So you don't know basicly

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So you don't know basically

I am telling you. Jeff Grub is my uncle.

 

[phil_t98]

I am telling you. Jeff Grub is my uncle.

Exactly my point.

 

[Dick Jones]

I am telling you. Jeff Grub is my uncle.

Sorry to hear

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Sorry to hear

Yep. He likes to pee from his butt hole. It's a "mess"

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Exactly my point

Point?

 

[ethomaz]

I am telling you. Jeff Grub is my uncle.

I feel sorry for you

 

[Keihart]

He will join the WWS, just not now, imo. Once he decides to retire, I would say.

Unless he gests sick, i don't see a reason for Kojima to truly retire. Is not like he is just working for a company, it's his company and is able to work in whatever interests him.